Why is Onett banned ?

[superyoshi888]

Actually, tiny size and the cars are that much of an issue. The other things you mentioned I agree with.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The side blastzones are seriously not close. I actually have experience on this stage, and I can say with absolute confidence that in the 99% of matchups where chaingrabs into the wall are not a factor, you tend to actually stick around more than average. If anything, argue the stage is too big and campy since it is indeed big and campy (though nothing extreme). Calling it small is just bizarre. I suppose the side blast zones are close to the ground in the sense that it's a walk-off, but time has demonstrated over and over again that camping a walk-off to back throw is an incredibly risky tactic that isn't broken at all, especially not on Onett where the cars frequently dislodge you from such a position.

The ceiling is a HIGH ceiling. This is something I can trivially prove, in fact.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

Onett has an objective ceiling height of 88 on this scale (Mario killed by other Mario fully charged usmash in training mode). Final Destination, Smashville, Battlefield, and a ton of other stages that have the "normal" ceiling height have a value of 82. The only stages actually on the list (which does ignore a few stages like Mario Bros.) that have a higher ceiling are Green Hill Zone (89 from the VERY bottom), Summit, Jungle Japes, and New Pork City. In other words, Onett is a stone's throw away from being huge...

The thing with Onett is that it's easily the most fair stage on which you could claim King Dedede (who is really the only guy who is actually THAT bad with walls and walk-offs) gives a great deal of grief. It's only about half of the matchups involving him anyway (the other half are either matchups in which he can't really chainthrow or he was pretty much going to win on any stage). Then you consider the cars saving you from chainthrows and how you can play strategically around them; at worst, I can really only see it being reasonable at all to complain about playing on this stage against a legitimate King Dedede main, not just some random guy CPing King Dedede to "punish" you. So, if you are up against one of the actual King Dedede mains, you could just use a personal stage ban if you're using that half of the cast against him. Then we have an extra legal stage and a very good one at that. It actually was legal around here for a bit, and it was bizarre when it was banned because it had never caused any problems but was just banned for speculation over brokenness it was claimed to have. That didn't sit well with me...

The idea of calling tactics "cheap" strikes me as absurd. Why is strategically ducking around the houses somehow worse than how you play to win on other stages? You can SDI out of dtilt wall combos which are really hard to set up against someone trying to avoid them anyway. I don't even understand a claim like "disrupts combos" because this game is just not about combos. It's about pressure and bad situations, and stage geography is a part of that for the attacker and the defender always so why is it somehow "disrupted" on Onett as though it had a natural state to begin with?

Also, if your philosophy over stages judges 90% of the stages to be bad, I really don't think it's a good philosophy. The standard for stages is the stages that exist; why would you base your stage standard off something that isn't a part of the game itself? I love how in Brawl every stage is unique and different with a majority of them being legitimately fair. Sure there are a lot of stage specific tactics and such in Brawl because of it, but since we are playing the game and not designing it, shouldn't we accept and embrace that?

I want to be clear again that my opinions on Onett are based largely around my actual play on Onett, not theorycrafting. A lot of the bizarre claims against Onett (like calling it small) make me suspect that some of the argument against it comes from people who haven't played it extensively and actually experienced the things they are complaining about to be sure that it is really representative of the best tactics on Onett. I know this is fruitless in the end since too many people simply hate the stage and won't be moved, but I think I'm legitimate to expect the objective facts to line up and for arguments against the stage to be backed by experience.

 

[Kwyjibo]

AA, when we say the stage is small, we're not talking about the ceiling. We're talking about the parts of the stage which show up on the camera.

Personally, I don't hate the stage. As a raging Earthbound fan, I wish so much that this stage could be viable, but it's just too small (once again, I'm talking about the stage HORIZONTALLY and what you can actually see of it while playing).

A doubles match on it just seems... cramped

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I addressed the horizontal thing in the first paragraph. It's not small horizontally either. You are just wrong about this.

 

[Mr. M4]

I think it's because of the walk-off sides
and those annoying cars, sure the knockback isnt great but they can kill you,
for instance on the left and right of the screen, behind the houses,
you + 30 % + car = ...... see where im going with this.....

 

[strawhats]

m4 I posted more vids over at Genesis thread if you want to go check them out now.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The cars only kill you if you are practically already in the blast zones. They have pretty low and totally fixed knockback; even at 999% they won't kill you from most positions on the stage, including every one a rational player would put himself in. They are pretty damaging, but they are just plain not deadly.

Funny story about Onett actually. I was testing out the cars to see if the knockback was truly fixed or just had very low growth (for instance, Ness's forward throw is non-fixed; it just has very low growth). They seemed fixed up to around 400%, but then my testing buddy and I started messing around with taunts. Before I knew it, a certain box bounced into me and blasted me due to my being at 400%+. It was hilarious, and from that day forth I always said that the cars are less dangerous than Snake's box.

 

[xDD-Master]

To the DDD thing:

There are always characters which do very good on specific stages.

To mention one: Falco on Japes. DK does also very well on Japes.

And so would for example Olimar do on Onett. To say it simple it's a good stage for characters who get easy gimped. And because Olimar is a DDD Counter and cant get gimped anymore AND DDD CANT WALL CG OLIMAR!!! DDD wouldnt be unbeatable here So if you know your oppenant will take Onett + DDD you can counter him with Olimar. It's just that there is no stage allowed which doesnt have the option to spike. And this is very sad, because a lot of characters could CP very well with a CP where they didnt get spiked/gimped anymore.

And Onett isnt that bad. There are the cars, yes, but they are avoidable and do "only" 30% and little knockback and will not kill you normally. Possible Wall Infinits are interupted by the car. Camping near the blastzones is interupted by the cars and sometimes more dangerous for the camper than for you. The only thing which really could destroy the stage is the option to live until very high %, anyway I believe that this wouldnt happen that often since the walls arent that high (like for Example on Shadow Moses).

 

[Terra~]

Not extremely fond of the stage but it could potentially work in competitive gameplay. The walls somewhat "block" the walk off. You'll probably die vertically, even then it's a high celling. All in all, Onett for da win brah, Ness' crib is where its at yo

 

[Tezushi]

Onett is banned in Brawl and Melee, because you can get Shine-infinited by a Fox at a wall until a car approaches, and you cannot escape.. Also Onett is banned, because it has about 3 or 4 hazordish ways to be a SD zone. Plus it seems like a small stage.

I guess people just find it un-fair, because many random people will find useful advantages to trade stocks over before you even know it. And many other reasons...

 

[nicekid76]

I everyone says Onett bothering them so it should be banned, what if I think FD is a pain, should it be banned. -btw I dont think FD is a pain-

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Onett is banned because the walls are literally always there,

Approaching corneria city.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Banned


Corneria (0-3-15)

I think not my good sir.

 

[Racer]

So is it banned because of the cars, or what?

 

[Praxis]

Infinites (Dedede can also get you on top of the platform, or he could power shield the car if he times it right and keep CGing), walk off ledges, random events that do 30%, a generally bad stage design that allows for the player to DI into walls and live to 200% consistency, etc.

 

[Craeter]

This is just one of those stages that blurs the line of fairness, there are arguements for both sides. I think in the end though most people generally don't like it for competitive play, it can be really campy.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I wish they would just allow nothing but neutrals so we can all move on.

 

[GwJ]

That would get MK banned then.

 

[Kamikaze*]

That would get MK banned then.

And if he gets banned, then **** this game forever.

 

[GwJ]

I just mentioned that because I saw you were an MK main.

 

[Scarecrow222]

It is banned because of the cars that drive by you mor**

 

[Dark__Nova]

enough said

 

[Synthe]

the cars and the wall
DUHH