why i think 5 stocks are better than 4 (serious topic)

[PoundSlap]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

so lets go over this idea in detail. first of all something in favor of this is that the matches leave you more time to adapt to your opponent (exactly one stock more). that will nerf characters that only rely on cheap tactics since you have a bigger studying window to get used to your opponent. this would benefit the real smart players for example armada. because if armada loses stocks due to cheapness for example hungrybox does utilt to rest which can settle a game with 4 stocks but not with 5 stocks since armada knows exactly when its gonna come next time. and hungrybox then doesnt know that armada knows that because as i said 5 stocks will leave you with more room for real skill instead of abusing cheap strategies over and over again.

so i think moves that even armada cannot predict because they are random/weird/no one would do it in that situation can settle a match with 4 stocks but that isnt true skill rather than relying on luck. 5 stocks gives the player a chance to comeback and it would benefit the real skilled player. im certain we wouldnt see so much backair spam/rest spam with jigglypuff. but what we will see are crazy mindgames for example from armada.

what do you think?

 

[TheDekuNut]

i think that i know that h-box is gonna throw a bunch of bairs no matter what matchup and falco it gonna laser you. "cheap kills/tactics" are expected at this point. i do think that adding more stock would result in more consistent wins for the better player, but then again i don't see this as a problem 4 stocks works fine.

 

[ryuu seika]

The "for example armada" is overdone and the "intended" stock number was likely 3, otherwise it wouldn't be default. I suspect that games are played with 4 stocks rather than 3 for exactly this reason but upping it to 5 seems unnecisary. Here's why it's a bad idea:

If you up the stock number to 5, you have to up the time limit to 10 minutes. This doesn't seem like much but this means that rounds can be expected to last up to half an hour, possibly even longer with draws. Do you really think that would be good for the game?

 

[Pi]

The "for example armada" is overdone and the "intended" stock number was likely 3, otherwise it wouldn't be default. I suspect that games are played with 4 stocks rather than 3 for exactly this reason but upping it to 5 seems unnecisary. Here's why it's a bad idea:

If you up the stock number to 5, you have to up the time limit to 10 minutes. This doesn't seem like much but this means that rounds can be expected to last up to half an hour, possibly even longer with draws. Do you really think that would be good for the game?

how would a more accurate representation of who the better player is in any way be worse for the game


i think the general consensus is that a best of 3 between relatively equal level players is not a great determining factor of which player is 'better'.


i don't see any downside to this, but i'd be hesitant to change what we have, especially something like the stocks/time because it's been such a staple

maybe i'll try 5 stocks out at one of my random tourneys

 

[l0telephone0l]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

so lets go over this idea in detail. first of all something in favor of this is that the matches leave you more time to adapt to your opponent (exactly one stock more). that will nerf characters that only rely on cheap tactics since you have a bigger studying window to get used to your opponent. this would benefit the real smart players for example armada. because if armada loses stocks due to cheapness for example hungrybox does utilt to rest which can settle a game with 4 stocks but not with 5 stocks since armada knows exactly when its gonna come next time. and hungrybox then doesnt know that armada knows that because as i said 5 stocks will leave you with more room for real skill instead of abusing cheap strategies over and over again.

so i think moves that even armada cannot predict because they are random/weird/no one would do it in that situation can settle a match with 4 stocks but that isnt true skill rather than relying on luck. 5 stocks gives the player a chance to comeback and it would benefit the real skilled player. im certain we wouldnt see so much backair spam/rest spam with jigglypuff. but what we will see are crazy mindgames for example from armada.

what do you think?

lol. stop johning about "cheap tactics" and l2win. 4 stocks is plenty enough. 5 for SSB64 due to the speed at which you can lose a stock, 3 because everything in Brawl takes forever. SSBM is about in between.

Plus, what's stopping h-box from u-tilting to rest again? If it doesn't work the first time, try it ten more times and it'll work eventually. Esp. if you have 5 stocks to play with

 

[ryuu seika]

Plus, what's stopping h-box from u-tilting to rest again? If it doesn't work the first time, try it ten more times and it'll work eventually. Esp. if you have 5 stocks to play with

Exactly the attitude that's likely to arise. If you have aone hit KO, who cares if you lose one stock trying to find a way to get it in? And the more stocks you have, the more you can afford to lose.
5 stocks will make Jiggs players more reckless, not more.

My main concern though is that more stocks means longer rounds, which is worse.

 

[Kanelol]

inb4 36 pages

in all honesty, if that's the way Sakurai intended it to be done we should do the exact opposite

 

[Pi]

Yea.
I'm sure that's the mindset players will take with 1 extra stock.
Lol.

 

[ryuu seika]

One extra stock is one extra stock to lose.
I don't know about you guys but I'd sure as hell use that extra stock for swallowciding.

 

[Euclid]

This thread can't be real. OP is trollin.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

isnt it obvious that all of poundslaps posts are serious?

 

[Geist]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

Worst way to introduce a topic ever
First of all, if you're going into semantics of what is and isn't giving a more accurate representation of skill level (Which coincidentally is what everything that you post concerns) you have to factor in everything. More stocks means longer matches, means you make each set a smaller amount of matches to balance time constraints. Okay, now you have the problem of stage counterpicking. How fair is it if someone has less control over the stages they play? They could be at more of a disadvantage simply by chance.
A better way would be to have 1 stock with 9 matches a set, FD and dreamland only

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

you guys are tragically easy to troll

 

[TheGoat]

isnt it obvious that all of poundslaps posts are serious?

painfully so.

 

[LLDL]

I don't think one stock would make a big difference. 4 stocks is a huge studying window. If you can't grasp your opponent in 4 stocks, you won't do it in 5.

Also, one or both players will lose more momentum this way. The end of the match will just be one guy dominating, or both players scared to approach each other.

 

[Beat!]

Haha, Geist too good.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Worst way to introduce a topic ever
First of all, if you're going into semantics of what is and isn't giving a more accurate representation of skill level (Which coincidentally is what everything that you post concerns) you have to factor in everything. More stocks means longer matches, means you make each set a smaller amount of matches to balance time constraints. Okay, now you have the problem of stage counterpicking. How fair is it if someone has less control over the stages they play? They could be at more of a disadvantage simply by chance.
A better way would be to have 1 stock with 9 matches a set, FD and dreamland only

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

Posting for relevance.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

the back of the box also shows people playing with items and grab the coins...
so i guess we should play grab the coins in tourney instead of stocks, right???
>.>

 

[Signia]

Why 5 stocks?
why not 6 stocks, it's a better representation of skill
You haven't explained why too much would be bad or why less stocks with best of 5s is bad. This discussion has already taken place in a previous thread.

 

[edgeluca]

I prefer 4 stocks. 5 makes it too long, especially with HugS vs Hbox if that unfortunate event ever happens.

 

[PoundSlap]

Worst way to introduce a topic ever
First of all, if you're going into semantics of what is and isn't giving a more accurate representation of skill level (Which coincidentally is what everything that you post concerns) you have to factor in everything. More stocks means longer matches, means you make each set a smaller amount of matches to balance time constraints. Okay, now you have the problem of stage counterpicking. How fair is it if someone has less control over the stages they play? They could be at more of a disadvantage simply by chance.
A better way would be to have 1 stock with 9 matches a set, FD and dreamland only

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

im not gonna lie but this is gets my vote as the funniest post of 2010. this is so extremely satiric i almost died of laughter lol

@topic: 5 stocks dont make it necessarily longer they just help for a fairer matchup between the contrahents. and the additional life will give the better player a chance to apply on his opponent what he has collected so far mentally from him.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?Sakurai doesn't want us to Wavedash or beat noobs so automaticly Armada should quit using advanced techs anad hungrybox also spacing/stage control isn't an advanced tech just very skillful

from this point there is no more to disargee with you can't change rules because ONE person wants to because of a picture on the back next part of your arguement

so lets go over this idea in detail. first of all something in favor of this is that the matches leave you more time to adapt to your opponent (exactly one stock more). that will nerf characters that only rely on cheap tacticschain throwing is cheap gimps at 10% is cheap to high level play it's I made a mistake and they are going to punish me as hard as they can. Are you saying they shouldn't use a tactic that isn't game breaking that maxs out their damage/punishment? if puff is no longer use bair to space why can't I say peach can't use float because she avoids my attacks in unfair ways.

think it's the SAME line of thought peach has a better/stronger air game than lets say mario right? air vs air peach wins mario can't projectile his way to a win or anything. All peach is doing is useing one of her stronger points of her game her air game. puff's ground game sucks so naturally puff is going to be in the air. puff has better range in the air. why wouldn't you use her air game more? If the player struggles with dealing with it why not abuse it?

If links get grabbed a lot why not abuse the weakeness when you're the ice climbers? CHEAP is to not let someone do the non broken tactic in which they choose. and if you say puff's camping is broken how come he's lost to lost players even mango's falcon and mario? as said before mario has a worse game than peach.

since you have a bigger studying window to get used to your opponent. this would benefit the real smart players for example armada.This also benefits campy players and puts the game to be more defensive becuase the longer you play the more mistakes happen encouraging fox to get a lead and camp because if armada loses stocks due to cheapnessArmada should buy a better control if you ask me but if he's cheap yeah his fault for example hungrybox does utilt to restarmada got hit therefore should get punished and even if H-box lands rest you can still punish him next stock with one quick move or your choice not so serious with good di which can settle a game with 4 stocks but not with 5 stocks since armada knows exactly when its gonna come next timein a set there are at least 8 lifes you have if you can't figure it out quickly to DI after the last time you played puff yeah, adapting can come from old matches too. and hungrybox then doesnt know that armada knows that because as i said 5 stocks will leave you with more room for real skill instead of abusing cheap strategies over and over again. What does armada have to do with more stocks?

so i think moves that even armada cannot predict because they are random/weird/no one would do it in that situation can settle a match with 4 stocks but that isnt true skill rather than relying on luck.explain please I know peach is the only used charcter that heavily relies on luck turpins are bulls*** oh I got a bomb oh I got 2 stich faces in a row i've lost matches due to this, it's ********. you've only given more reason why it's dumb that armada couldn't win it's like you've given him

ALL the tools plus the power of randomness but then say bair is wierd and unpredictablely random after H-box presses the C-stick to the side and DIs away. Nothing random in input and output not even in math 5 stocks gives the player a chance to comebackcomeback still happen percent wise of stock wise and if it was 5 stocks we'd say we need more for more comebacks and it would benefit the real skilled playerspacing/stage control is in fact skillful and if it's not you're saying you could do that and beat armada. im certain we wouldnt see so much backair spam/rest spam with jigglypuff. but what we will see are crazy mindgames for example from armada.

what do you think?

my veiws using the power of logic in green.

did you even watch this match? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoaIEuRlOYs serwiously aramada gets stich faces and swords and etc. totally random and H-box had to work his nuts off to caught up at the end and made a comeback that I doubt many people could do. puff struggled to get in.


besides the holes in your arguement it would take to long to play every match. Basically every match played you'd add a minute to it roughly. that would last too long making the tournemtn take like seriously 20% longer. even 15% would suck

 

[omgwtfToph]

hugs vs hbox is actually fun to watch cuz of hugs >.>;

 

[metalreflectslime]

 

[ss118]

But I don't see poundslap in that pic. The big green thing is in the way.

 

[ERayz]

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

This post made me laugh sooo much, it's exactly the same non-sense logic than the OP

But, 5 stocks seems cool to me, because I think playing more reckless only because I know I have more stocks would be a bad strategy, since my opponent also has 1 more stock, and if a player plays defensively during 5 stocks, it could really affect the other player's mind since it would seem so long to beat him.

On the other hand, because of time constraints, 4 stocks is better, 20% less time per round in tournament is very influent in many ways.

 

[MCSR]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

so lets go over this idea in detail. first of all something in favor of this is that the matches leave you more time to adapt to your opponent (exactly one stock more). that will nerf characters that only rely on cheap tactics since you have a bigger studying window to get used to your opponent. this would benefit the real smart players for example armada. because if armada loses stocks due to cheapness for example hungrybox does utilt to rest which can settle a game with 4 stocks but not with 5 stocks since armada knows exactly when its gonna come next time. and hungrybox then doesnt know that armada knows that because as i said 5 stocks will leave you with more room for real skill instead of abusing cheap strategies over and over again.

so i think moves that even armada cannot predict because they are random/weird/no one would do it in that situation can settle a match with 4 stocks but that isnt true skill rather than relying on luck. 5 stocks gives the player a chance to comeback and it would benefit the real skilled player. im certain we wouldnt see so much backair spam/rest spam with jigglypuff. but what we will see are crazy mindgames for example from armada.

what do you think?

Hates on H-Box incessantly.
Has massive hard-on for Armada.

Sup, MikeHaggar.

 

[ss118]

Let's play one stock two minute matches.

In return, make sets so that you have to win 8 / 15 matches.

Since matches are short, you can analyze them more easily and adapt more to your opponent between matches.

Spoiler

Please four stock. This is just using Poundslap logic.

 

[Wenbobular]

im not gonna lie but this is gets my vote as the funniest post of 2010. this is so extremely satiric i almost died of laughter lol

@topic: 5 stocks dont make it necessarily longer they just help for a fairer matchup between the contrahents. and the additional life will give the better player a chance to apply on his opponent what he has collected so far mentally from him.

Hahahahahaha

 

[ERayz]

Yeah, 4 stocks is pretty legit

 

[boardsmash]

i like playing with 3 and 5 stocks!
4 is my unlucky number!!

 

[TheDekuNut]

Troll me?!? how dare you!!? but he put "(Serious Topic)"so its all good but entirely wrong

 

[Beat!]

Worst way to introduce a topic ever
First of all, if you're going into semantics of what is and isn't giving a more accurate representation of skill level (Which coincidentally is what everything that you post concerns) you have to factor in everything. More stocks means longer matches, means you make each set a smaller amount of matches to balance time constraints. Okay, now you have the problem of stage counterpicking. How fair is it if someone has less control over the stages they play? They could be at more of a disadvantage simply by chance.
A better way would be to have 1 stock with 9 matches a set, FD and dreamland only

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

This post needs to be quoted again every time a new page in this thread is started. It's that good.

 

[Bones0]

We should play with 15 stocks per game on Super Sudden Death. The metagame has devolved to the point that everyone just 0s to death anyway; let's cut out the middle man and make each hit a kill.

 

[TP]

I'm running out of ways to john for Armada and insult Hungrybox so I'm going to use rules-that-have-been-in-place-for-9-years johns.

Well that's great, but you don't need to make a new thread about it.

 

[Zodiac]

what you described in the first post is EXACTLY the reason we use four stocks instead of 3

 

[DippnDots]

why are people actually discussing this after the ridiculously stupid first post. Rhetorical.

 

[CableCho57]

Worst way to introduce a topic ever
First of all, if you're going into semantics of what is and isn't giving a more accurate representation of skill level (Which coincidentally is what everything that you post concerns) you have to factor in everything. More stocks means longer matches, means you make each set a smaller amount of matches to balance time constraints. Okay, now you have the problem of stage counterpicking. How fair is it if someone has less control over the stages they play? They could be at more of a disadvantage simply by chance.
A better way would be to have 1 stock with 9 matches a set, FD and dreamland only

Now how fair is it that fox is such a good character? He is good on every stage, so counterpicking doesn't work on him. Well no one's had a problem with Fox for a good number of years, so it only makes sense we should change that now and ban fox.
Well wait now Jiggs is too good for whatever reason
So now if someone picks marth with Fox and Jiggs banned the player's skill requirement reduces by 47.95% when playing a player of equal skill from some sort of mathematical equation I just made up
Now to balance that Falco will become even more popular and Wobbling will have to be legalized, further reducing the amount of skill required to play this game by 14.74%.
But dreamland's wind makes wobbling too hard because I think that makes sense in my head, and we have to ban dreamland.
So it's only FD allowed, further reducing required skill level by 38.31% because now marth can CG falco to death all the time.

According to these calculations this means the game will require 101% less skill than presently needed. Yes that's right, it will require negative skill to play smash.
Look what you have done. This is a terrible idea and the game is now ruined because of you.

omg this man is my hero

I freaking died, especially at the last four sentences. Probably the best post ive ever read since owning a swf account

 

[Zgetto]

Do we have retarted mods? Seriously why does this retarted troll have 157 posts? I dont even have to read any of this and know its nothing but bull****.. step your game up mods.. Id ban him in a instance.

 

[metalreflectslime]

omg this man is my hero

I freaking died, especially at the last four sentences. Probably the best post ive ever read since owning a swf account

......................