why i think 5 stocks are better than 4 (serious topic)

[PoundSlap]

please guys dont go on like this. i dont want the same thing happening to this thread what happened to the best player thread only because you guys cannot stay on topic. its an honest question after all if 5 stocks could lead to a more balanced matchup and if you have nothing to contribute just stop posting.

so, lets get back to it. so yes 5 stocks probably make the match about one 1 minute longer. i dont also think we have to change the 8 minute timer since 8 minutes were more than enough for 4 stocks and if someones gonna plank they would also do it when there are 10 minutes.

but the important part about it is, with the one stock more it gives you a larger window for studying oppnents and also to make a mistake. as we know 5 stocks are 25% more than 4 stocks so if you do a suicide it will determine match at about 20% less. combined with my other mathematic equation with the 72% jiggs-peach i think this will end up for a fairer contest all in all.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

No you're insane. If this your honest to God logic you scare me.

if you say puff vs peach is a hard match-up how will adding stocks help? Puff makes comebacks way faster than peach and once puff has a lead how is peach going to get anywhere? Seriously the longer the match the harder it is to pull tricks out your a** if you play a 99 stock match it will be harder to use tricks and a few mindgames. Also more stocks favors the charcters who havefewer mistakes and punish harder this favors puff more than anything esle.

think of fox it's hard to keep super focused and camp puff without f***ing up more more stocks=more room for easy to make mistakes.= more nairs to tech chases.

also suicides in like 90% of all cases are your own d*** fault. holy crap I pressed up and missed the edge I misspaced and guess what I misspaced and got hit by puff's bair. Play as a charcter who is good at breaking pysical walls like marth, puff, or gannon I guess zedla/roy but I don't know. How about you figure out how to beat puff and help armada.

because if you come in here giveing numbers about why armada is better I might as well give you numbers why i'm better.

Snadbagging at 30% I was able to take 2 and nearly a 3rd stock off zhu's pikachu skill needed for pikachu is half that of pichu because pikachu has twice the range, less inputs, more wieght and etc. zhu gave maybe 70%.

if I gave 100% i'd easily win by these numbers even if pikachu has half the skill needed so i'm at least twice as good as zhu who is a 1/3 as good as mango and me being 2/3 as good as mango I should clearly be ranked.

 

[Beat!]

So, PoundSlap, hypothetically, if Hbox and Armada were to play 10-stock matches against each other, on a stage that is favorable for Peach (I don't know much about stage preferences, but I guess Mute City would do), and Hbox still wins the vast majority of games, would you accept him as better?

And don't say "That won't happen". It's hypothetical. What would you say?

 

[PoundSlap]

So, PoundSlap, hypothetically, if Hbox and Armada were to play 10-stock matches against each other, on a stage that is favorable for Peach (I don't know much about stage preferences, but I guess Mute City would do), and Hbox still wins the vast majority of games, would you accept him as better?

And don't say "That won't happen". It's hypothetical. What would you say?

as i said, this depends on how much hungrybox won. jigglypuff needs 40% less skill than peach plus the matchup between those is in jiggs favor so its 72%. i was going into detail on that logic in my other thread so if you dont understand why this number exists go through the thread.
counterpicks are nonexistent for peach against jiggs since jiggs is good where peach is, i would also say jiggs is a little better because she can still get the rest kos from utilt at very low percent and then peach has the problem because jiggs wont die on dreamland and stuff. so according to those facts hungrybox needs to win in a 10 stock match by 72% more stocks so he needs to seven stock armada in order to be better.

so yes, if he can seven stock (or 3 stock when we play at reuglar 4 stocks) then they are probably about even or hungrybox is slightly better but only if he manages to do that consistently

 

[Metal Reeper]

4 stocks is already cemented in.
Saying JV6 stock sounds ********.

 

[1048576]

please guys dont go on like this. i dont want the same thing happening to this thread what happened to the best player thread only because you guys cannot stay on topic. its an honest question after all if 5 stocks could lead to a more balanced matchup and if you have nothing to contribute just stop posting.

so, lets get back to it. so yes 5 stocks probably make the match about one 1 minute longer. i dont also think we have to change the 8 minute timer since 8 minutes were more than enough for 4 stocks and if someones gonna plank they would also do it when there are 10 minutes.

but the important part about it is, with the one stock more it gives you a larger window for studying oppnents and also to make a mistake. as we know 5 stocks are 25% more than 4 stocks so if you do a suicide it will determine match at about 20% less. combined with my other mathematic equation with the 72% jiggs-peach i think this will end up for a fairer contest all in all.

Where's the ceiling? According to your logic we should play 99 stock matches, or (since I know where you're going with that) timed matches with the timer at 8 minutes.

4 stock is the best because 99% of the time it determines the best player and it also minimizes tournament run time, which is kind of a big deal.

 

[Jonas]

If we had 5 stock, we'd have people complaining all the time that 5 stocks are not enough and that 6 would be better.
Ideally, we should play 99 stocks to empirically decide which player is the best, but it takes too much time and it's pointless to increase the stock count beyond what we have now.

 

[Metal Reeper]

This should be closed (Seriously)

 

[Beat!]

as i said, this depends on how much hungrybox won. jigglypuff needs 40% less skill than peach plus the matchup between those is in jiggs favor so its 72%. i was going into detail on that logic in my other thread so if you dont understand why this number exists go through the thread.
counterpicks are nonexistent for peach against jiggs since jiggs is good where peach is, i would also say jiggs is a little better because she can still get the rest kos from utilt at very low percent and then peach has the problem because jiggs wont die on dreamland and stuff. so according to those facts hungrybox needs to win in a 10 stock match by 72% more stocks so he needs to seven stock armada in order to be better.

so yes, if he can seven stock (or 3 stock when we play at reuglar 4 stocks) then they are probably about even or hungrybox is slightly better but only if he manages to do that consistently

But you said more stocks would result in "random lame stuff" having a lesser impact. Shouldn't that raise the skill needed for Puff, making it a more even matchup?

Spoiler

What am I even hoping to achieve with this?

 

[PoundSlap]

But you said more stocks would result in "random lame stuff" having a lesser impact. Shouldn't that raise the skill needed for Puff, making it a more even matchup?

thats right, and im glad you understand the logic behind it, that this system is aiming to balance out disadvantages of smart players that deserve the win more. it makes the matchup only more skill needed for puff if his opponent is a mind reader like armada and as i said thats the point behind it. real smart player must be rewarded for not choosing a gay way of playing.
but if the player isnt smart and chooses to fall for the same lame tactics over and over aigain, the one extra stock to spare wont change the outcoming.

 

[Brookman]

That was a good laugh.

 

[~Twitch~]

dogs are pretty cool you guys.

who's with me?

 

[1048576]

thats right, and im glad you understand the logic behind it, that this system is aiming to balance out disadvantages of smart players that deserve the win more. it makes the matchup only more skill needed for puff if his opponent is a mind reader like armada and as i said thats the point behind it. real smart player must be rewarded for not choosing a gay way of playing.
but if the player isnt smart and chooses to fall for the same lame tactics over and over aigain, the one extra stock to spare wont change the outcoming.

Either stop posting or respond to the legitimate criticism others and I have pointed out. (99 stocks blah blah blah)

That pretty much goes for everything you've posted since you joined smashboards

 

[Beat!]

I understood the logic. Yaaay. Now I can find out the true match up percentages. Awesome!

 

[PoundSlap]

Either stop posting or respond to the legitimate criticism others and I have pointed out. (99 stocks blah blah blah)

That pretty much goes for everything you've posted since you joined smashboards

what are you talking? i didnt respond on this 99 stock thing because its obvious that its stupid. 99 stocks are not only too long but also too exhausting. you cannot keep being concentrated for so long. its like we play an endless melee with infinite time for a week and whoever has the least sleep is probably gonna get the most kills. dont tell me that applies to 5 stocks as well because that just doesnt. and now i have a question: can you confirm it being better to play with 4 stocks instead of 5? can you do it or not?

@beatstick: if you have any questions regarding these percentages just send me a pm.

 

[~Twitch~]

i demand an answer poundslap.

 

[Geist]

i demand an answer poundslap.

No. This is a serious thread and as such should be treated with the utmost respect.

as i said, this depends on how much hungrybox won. jigglypuff needs 40% less skill than peach plus the matchup between those is in jiggs favor so its 72%. i was going into detail on that logic in my other thread so if you dont understand why this number exists go through the thread.
counterpicks are nonexistent for peach against jiggs since jiggs is good where peach is, i would also say jiggs is a little better because she can still get the rest kos from utilt at very low percent and then peach has the problem because jiggs wont die on dreamland and stuff. so according to those facts hungrybox needs to win in a 10 stock match by 72% more stocks so he needs to seven stock armada in order to be better.

so yes, if he can seven stock (or 3 stock when we play at reuglar 4 stocks) then they are probably about even or hungrybox is slightly better but only if he manages to do that consistently

oh lawdy

Man I love dogs I tell you, my favorite are probably german shepherds but I've only ever owned this little maltese dog that peed everywhere whenever you'd yell at it but it was so cute we couldn't give it away.
I like cats better anyways

 

[~Twitch~]

oh lawdy

Man I love dogs I tell you, my favorite are probably german shepherds but I've only ever owned this little maltese dog that peed everywhere whenever you'd yell at it but it was so cute we couldn't give it away.
I like cats better anyways

dude cats suck man.

fav is definitely long-haired dachshund, they're so cute, i tell you.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

No you're insane.

ICG just called YOU insane... that tells you somethings wrong with your thinking...

so according to those facts hungrybox needs to seven stock armada in order to be better.

so yes, if he can seven stock (or 3 stock when we play at reuglar 4 stocks) then they are probably about even or hungrybox is slightly better but only if he manages to do that consistently

so if armada picked up puff would he 14 stock hbox since he's that good???

 

[~Twitch~]

wtf, you guys need to quit getting off topic.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

wtf, you guys need to quit getting off topic.

my apologies...
dogs are awesome...
i have one...
i dont pay attention to him...

 

[~Twitch~]

nice .

 

[Velox]

alright, for some reason i examined the backside of the ssbm cover today and i noticed that the characters play with 5 instead of 4 stocks. this made me wonder if sakurai wanted the game to be played in a way like this?

so lets go over this idea in detail. first of all something in favor of this is that the matches leave you more time to adapt to your opponent (exactly one stock more). that will nerf characters that only rely on cheap tactics since you have a bigger studying window to get used to your opponent. this would benefit the real smart players for example armada. because if armada loses stocks due to cheapness for example hungrybox does utilt to rest which can settle a game with 4 stocks but not with 5 stocks since armada knows exactly when its gonna come next time. and hungrybox then doesnt know that armada knows that because as i said 5 stocks will leave you with more room for real skill instead of abusing cheap strategies over and over again.

so i think moves that even armada cannot predict because they are random/weird/no one would do it in that situation can settle a match with 4 stocks but that isnt true skill rather than relying on luck. 5 stocks gives the player a chance to comeback and it would benefit the real skilled player. im certain we wouldnt see so much backair spam/rest spam with jigglypuff. but what we will see are crazy mindgames for example from armada.

what do you think?

cool story bro

 

[Beat!]

Poodles can be cool.

Sometimes.