Why DON'T you want Erdrick in Smash?

[Deleted member]

Erdrick seems to be a very conflicting character in the Smash Bros. universe. The main reason is the fact that Dragon Quest's art is drawn by Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball and the man the Smash community seemingly has a burning hatred for. So I ask, what's that real reason you don't want Erdrick in Smash?

 

[BonafideFella]

The only reason I don't want Erdrick is because I honestly don't like anything he has to offer moveset~wise. Sure, the swordfighter thing's an outdated meme at this point, but upon closer inspection, I can't see much to him.
Curse~caster? Robin's got you covered. Stance~changer? Shulk wants to know your location.
Granted, I'm aware there can be several different takes on the same archetype, but at first glance, there's not much to his guy. It seems like people just want a Dragon Quest character, as opposed to Erdrick, if that makes any sense.

 

[Wyoming]

Erdrick seems to be a very conflicting character in the Smash Bros. universe. The main reason is the fact that Dragon Quest's art is drawn by Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball and the man the Smash community seemingly has a burning hatred for. So I ask, what's that real reason you don't want Erdrick in Smash?

Never seen anyone use Toriyama's art style against him. Sword Goku is merely a meme.

The actual reasons are:

1. He uses a sword, which a lot of people hate to see the appearance of these days.
2. He isn't the Square Enix character people want for their own biased reasons (e.g: Sora, Geno, Sephiroth, Lara Croft, 2B) and thus see him as a threat for their side.

As for me, I don't have much stock as who Square want. I would respect Sora and Lara Croft as choices, but they aren't characters I am dying to see in. If there were no Square character at all I wouldn't lose much sleep.

 

[Deleted member]

I want Erdrick, anyways these topics are kinda annoying really. I understand not being into a character, but the amount of hate they get is ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member]

Originally, I didn't want Shulk and Rex in Smash Bros because I knew nothing about his series, but then I began opening up to Shulk more and even tried out Xenoblade Chronicles 2 last month. Now I want more Xenoblade Chronicles content in Smash Bros despite me being previously indifferent to the series.

I'm saying that because the same thing happened with Dragon Quest with me. I thought there were characters I wanted more (like Geno) so I was initially disappointed when I was started hearing about Erdrick. My reaction was, "Who?" Then I dug into what the series was about and started really wanting it in. That and my brother likes it so why not?

I just don't see much offensive about it. If people eventually accepted Fire Emblem in Melee, Dragon Quest isn't going to traumatize anybody more than what's already been done.

 

[FancySmash]

I really can't say one way or the other. I've never really played Dragon Quest, so I'm not for or against him. The only thing I can say is that I wish he could have been one of the characters available to play as in Fortune Street so that I could have some kind of developed opinion.

Otherwise, he's fine, I wouldn't absolutely hate his inclusion.

 

[Planet Cool]

Erdrick is okay. If Cloud weren't already in the game and somebody asked me to pick a Square-Enix rep, Erdrick is probably the one I'd pick, if only because Dragon Quest is hugely popular in Japan and I know it would make a lot of fans happy. But I personally have no strong feelings about the character one way or the other. The only reason I'm hoping he's not in the game is that (and I know this is a fallacy, but it's how I feel anyway) it would increase Banjo's chances. If only because Erdrick leaks and Banjo leaks are often contradictory.

I will say this: if he's deconfirmed, I will spam that "Here Lies Erdrick" picture from Link's Awakening as a funny meme.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I do want Erdrick, but thanks for asking.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I do prefer Slime, but Erdrick is also a good choice

 

[Bestmand902]

Honestly at least in my personal opinion it has nothing to do with him as a character and everything to do with the fact that the composer for the series is a terrible, terrible person which taints my perception of Dragon Quest as a whole

 

[NintendoKnight]

I prefer Eight. That's pretty much it.

 

[Roguewolf]

Other people.would like Erdrick so I have no problem with it I would be happy for those people ya know?

 

[PhantomShab]

He was never even a blip on anyone's radar until the whole Brave datamine and Veggieboy "leaking" him. Now suddenly all these Erdrick "fans" just come crawling out of the woodwork acting like we should have gotten a Dragon Quest character forever ago. I mean yeah Dragon Quest is loved in Japan and all that but Erdrick really has become the biggest posterboy of bandwagoned circlejerked characters, to the point where people treat him as an inevitability. It's just suspicious how a character who basically never existed in any Smash speculation ever suddenly becomes Jesus overnight. Like it really get's my noggin joggin.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't think it's a good idea to make a thread just to vent about a particular character.
I would say the same thing regardless of which character it is.

But, I do want Erdrick, and he would rep Dragon Quest well, the second biggest series Square Enix has, and a series I really like. I've heard people say they prefer the direction it went than Final Fantasy, because it's still an rpg at its core, whereas final fantasy has been very experimental and turning more action-based. Personally I really like both.

I've seen quite a bit of people against the character, and it's not very nice to see. A lot haven't heard much about the character. Which isn't surprising since DQ3 didn't sell very well in the west. But that's not a good reason to be hateful, especially when there are dragon quest fans around.


I hope that people get to vent their frustrations in healthy ways, and get to the core of what they want instead of being harsh about it, anyway.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Don't have any experience with Dragon Quest outside of playing a little bit of the DS port of DQV and seeing the series' Slime in some Mario spinoffs (I do plan on picking up DQXI when it comes to Switch though), and I'm not really interested in any humanoid fighters that aren't going to be incredibly unique fighters. No matter how you slice it, "guy who fights with sword and magic" isn't all that interesting to me.

I'm not against his inclusion; Dragon Quest very obviously deserves its place amongst gaming's and especially Nintendo's top dogs. He's just not a character I'd be interested in purchasing. I'd rather we get the Slime for a Dragon Quest character anyway.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't hate the idea of Erdrick, though I've never played Dragon Quest and the thing that got me interested in the series was the Slime. Erdrick could still be cool, and maybe I'd even prefer him over Slime if I actually played his game, but I dunno. I also remember people treating Erdrick as a 100% lock because of Vergeben and the "brave" codename when, if Brave is a DQ character, it could easily be Luminary/the DQ 11 protagonist or even Slime instead since Vergeben and his sources could be wrong about who it is exactly.

I don't think this thread was needed, though.

 

[SonicMario]

I don't mind either way however this goes. But for now I'm generally just resigning that he is presumably next. It's another point where it's like the Box theory from way back in September. I'd be more happy to be wrong that all the datamining and speculation about Brave was all for naught and we still have a degree of mystery on what are the remaining 4. But if he is indeed in. The only real bummer would be it took a whole half a year to reveal him when the speculation about him first popped up just a month after Joker's announcement.

I neither support nor oppose Erdrick. But just know that the presumed "leaked" character is always going to be hit with hostile backlash because especially in the case where we know there's only 4 characters left. The less spots there are, the less chances other people's favorites have. Especially if said character is Square Enix owned.

 

[jamesster445]

I don't have a personal grudge against him but rather the people who own him. And no that doesn't include Toriyama he's fine. But Square has already proven twice now how stingy they're going to be regarding content and I can't trust them to do the right thing. There's also the matter of music and the person who makes them and now suddenly were talking history and politics so I'll cut it off there.

Finally no one has ever sold me on Erdrick. Isaac fans sold me the fact that he's essentially an earthbender. I'm just waiting for someone to explain what makes Erdrick an interesting fighter.

 

[CureParfait]

The reason why I don't want Erdrick is, what I've seen from him doesn't seem particularly interesting to me.

 

[osby]

None. I wouldn't mind Erdrick.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Because I would rather have Sora. And if we're gonna get a DQ character, I feel like Slime is the better choice.

 

[LightKnight]

I'm not against having Erdrick in the game but as a fighter it seems like the overall moveset would be pretty similar to Link and some of the other characters. And we already have 3 Links lol. That said, I'm sure they could give the character a unique spin to the rest of the cast so I'm not too worried about it. And if there are a lot of people wanting the character, particularly in Japan, then I'd be happy for them getting a character they want.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't have a personal grudge against him but rather the people who own him. And no that doesn't include Toriyama he's fine. But Square has already proven twice now how stingy they're going to be regarding content and I can't trust them to do the right thing. There's also the matter of music and the person who makes them and now suddenly were talking history and politics so I'll cut it off there.

Finally no one has ever sold me on Erdrick. Isaac fans sold me the fact that he's essentially an earthbender. I'm just waiting for someone to explain what makes Erdrick an interesting fighter.

Multiple weapons + lightning and explosions is how I'd expect him to play.

 

[Calamitas]

For me it comes down mostly to the fact that his inclusion would not bode particularly well for my own most wanted, who I obviously far prioritize. If Erdrick were to make it in after my most wanted was confirmed, then I'd just shrug and accept him. By his own merits though, Erdrick just doesn't seem all that appealing to me - everything I ever saw and heard about Dragon Quest makes it look extremely generic to me, and I'm not the biggest fan of Akira Toriyama's art style.

 

[Gameboi834]

I hate talking down other character choices, because I know that other players are actively campaigning for them, and personally I think such a seminal series drawn by Toriyama is awesome. That said, I mostly don't want Erdrick because I'm afraid it means other characters from Square, such as Crono, Sora, or Geno might not get in.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

The Reason is:

I'd Rather have Geno be The Square Enix rep!!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I wouldn't mind him in here, but I still doubt his chances. Nothing is set in stone.

 

[Nutty Sponge]

Completely neutral, I could care less if he got in or not.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

I don't hate Erdrick, but he seems like a boring inclusion, especially right after we just got Joker. I'd choose Slime for a DQ rep, or another Square Enix rep in general.

 

[Brothanigus]

Sorry to say but mostly every JRPG doesn't translate well into smash, most games don't translate well into smash(Shooters are another genre that's very difficult to translate into smash look at Snake, he's nothing like he is in the MGS games.) Erdrick really won't be much different than Robin(minus the weapon durability.) You know he'll have a down B counter because what else could he be given? DQ should be left to levels/assist trophies as it fits much better there as opposed to a playable fighter(just like a ton of other fighters in the game already.) THis game needs to start adding in characters that are actually unique and bring something unique and interesting to the table, which Eridrick simply won't(just like the Joker, literally NOTHING unique about him. His down B is a counter+cloud's limit break. Literally another boring character that brings nothing unique to the game.) Slime is a more interesting character concept than Erdrick.

And besides that, there are far more interesting and unique characters out there ON TOP of there being miriads of characters FAR more wanted than Eridrick.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The side of me that loves gaming history and the impact Dragon Quest has on it's genre as a whole. He's all arms wide open for Erdrick?

The part of me that wants an exciting character that brings something new to the table? The part of me that actually wants a character I have personal experience with? The part of me who feels there are far more exciting and interesting choices at not only Square but other third party companies alone? The part who hates some of the people involved in making the DQ series?

Really really really sleeps on Erdrick.

 

[UserKev]

I don't based on my own pure bias that, he's another character that has the whole "anime trope" and aesthetic. I don't want to see anymore characters like those specifics right now. Tradition Japanese spikey haired protagonists are becoming sickening.

 

[Namasura]

You know he'll have a down B counter because what else could he be given?

? Why would he be given a counter? The only mechanic even close to it in his game is one armor out of dozens that damage your enemy when you are hit with it. The spell bounce is closer to a reflect projectiles thing, but even it cannot be learnt by the Hero.

He was never even a blip on anyone's radar until the whole Brave datamine and Veggieboy "leaking" him. Now suddenly all these Erdrick "fans" just come crawling out of the woodwork acting like we should have gotten a Dragon Quest character forever ago. I mean yeah Dragon Quest is loved in Japan and all that but Erdrick really has become the biggest posterboy of bandwagoned circlejerked characters, to the point where people treat him as an inevitability. It's just suspicious how a character who basically never existed in any Smash speculation ever suddenly becomes Jesus overnight. Like it really get's my noggin joggin.

That is a whole lot of ad hominem and the building of a strawman. A whole lot of time spent on exaggerating and inflating the arguments towards the character but no addressing of them. He shouldn't be in because his "fans" are all evil and think he is Jesus. lol

Furthermore, it also has the assumption that something not blinking in the radar of the groups extremely invested in Smash speculation is a fault of whatever is causing it to blink now and not of the speculation itself. First that I disagree that Dragon Quest was not being talked about (mostly slime on the circles not very familiar with it) ever since Cloud was added. Its a series that SE itself presents as their second flagship, any well built radar had to consider that as much as they had to have Ryu and MH after Megaman got it. Now please don't bend my words into "DQ is guaranteed. DQ should have always been in". It's more that after FF, DQ is the second series SE used the most in crossovers.

But just know that the presumed "leaked" character is always going to be hit with hostile backlash

That is not really true. It depends on the circumstances, by who they are leaked, who they are leaked with and so on. A niche character leaked with current speculation favourite like Banjo, Geno or Isaac all tend to have warm receptions.

 

[AngrySun88]

He's a character that wasn't really on anyone's radar until a certain "leaker" began talking about him (which is odd considering how Square notoriously hates leaks). I have no personal connection to him and frankly he seems rather boring compared to other Square characters that people have been asking for ages like Geno and Sora. Heck, even Slime would be a more interesting and fun character than another generic swordsman for a DQ rep.

Plus, I think there would be backlash as putting Erdrick in Smash would be seen as Nintendo attempting to advertise DQ in the West.

 

[PsySmasher]

I have no interest in DQ. But at this point I really don't care if he gets in or not.

The only other Square rep I want is a Bravely Default rep, so Erdrick is only really getting in the way of that possibility.

And if I had to choose a DQ rep myself, I'd pick Slime hands down.

Ironically, being designed by Toriyama is one of the few reasons I'd be fine with Erdrick getting in.

 

[PhantomShab]

That is a whole lot of ad hominem and the building of a strawman. A whole lot of time spent on exaggerating and inflating the arguments towards the character but no addressing of them. He shouldn't be in because his "fans" are all evil and think he is Jesus. lol

Furthermore, it also has the assumption that something not blinking in the radar of the groups extremely invested in Smash speculation is a fault of whatever is causing it to blink now and not of the speculation itself. First that I disagree that Dragon Quest was not being talked about (mostly slime on the circles not very familiar with it) ever since Cloud was added. Its a series that SE itself presents as their second flagship, any well built radar had to consider that as much as they had to have Ryu and MH after Megaman got it. Now please don't bend my words into "DQ is guaranteed. DQ should have always been in". It's more that after FF, DQ is the second series SE used the most in crossovers.

What, am I wrong? Was there some huge support group for Erdrick back during Brawl or Smash 4 or even Ultimate before the whole "Brave" datamine that I just didn't know about? Slime was the only DQ character I ever saw being talked about when it came to Smash. I never said DQ was never a blip, I said that Erdrick specifically never was.

 

[Megex]

I tried to get into it with the newest one, but I just didn't feel it. Good for those who want, but the reason why theres a lot of hate Is due people seeing it dwindling the chances of a character they want.

What, am I wrong? Was there some huge support group for Erdrick back during Brawl or Smash 4 or even Ultimate before the whole "Brave" datamine that I just didn't know about? Slime was the only DQ character I ever saw being talked about when it came to Smash. I never said DQ was never a blip, I said that Erdrick specifically never was.

I wonder when the rumor started?

 

[Namasura]

What, am I wrong? Was there some huge support group for Erdrick back during Brawl or Smash 4 or even Ultimate before the whole "Brave" datamine that I just didn't know about? Slime was the only DQ character I ever saw being talked about when it came to Smash. I never said DQ was never a blip, I said that Erdrick specifically never was.

He was discussed in DQ specific areas and sometimes on 4chan (There is that reposted image of the hits on the 4chan archive between 2015-2018, though often described as the total of times Erdrick has been mentioned since 2004 which isn't the case as the archives only go down to mid-2015 and the number of replies is also 1/3 of the total since Loto/Roto/DQ3 Hero are all acceptable names for the character as well... anyway, if you look into it, you will see those 2015-2017 posts still use the same logic as now when asking for him in Smash), of course it was not major, we all know the issues DQ's fanbase has in the west. But the arguments for Erdrick are consistent with what was mentioned pre-leaks, and now these same arguments are brushed off to the side with "Well, your character is leaked, you are a fake fan, so your points are wrong." and to me that makes no sense, the leaks that stick are ultimately just a spotlight, you can't brush off something just because of what brought attention to it.

I guess what I question is just the objective, because most of the people who take offense at what they perceive as a "Bandwagon" character seem to take more offense at any attempts to make a case for the character outside of leaks than they do for the people who are just going "Well, vergeben said...", the more I talk about DQ3's quality or legacy, the more I talk about how Erdrick's adventure is fun or how you could incorporate elements of classic JRPG to distinguish him visually from the sleeker and modern swordfighters like Cloud or the FEs, the stronger the response of 'Nu uh, its the leaks' I get.

To me all the leaks did was to finally A) give the fans a reason to finally group up, which is expected, momentum is a thing, if people have 10-20 characters they want, the ones that have a higher chance are the ones likely to be discussed, just like right now I am discussing Erdrick not many of other niche characters I would like such as a Harvest Moon rep, BoF Ryu or Nina, Servbot, Marina Liteyears, Spyro or Captain Syrup, hell, before my favorite series got such buzz going for it I had never visited any Smash discussion outside of my native tongue.

And B) make a larger amount of people see a certain mindset that was previously niche, something they hadn't given a chance before or had not considered, because, speculation or no speculation, certain facts stay the same. And this isn't just true for Erdrick, but to all the characters that get marked with this pariah mark of "bandwagon" character, where paradoxically its okay to play a new release and immediately want a character in Smash but Arceus forbid you starting to like a character after playing his game due to hearing they could be a possible Smash Bros reveal. I don't think a significant amount of people have been supporting Erdrick just to 'piss off' people, if anything, that comes off as a very self-centered world view.

 

[SonicMario]

That is not really true. It depends on the circumstances, by who they are leaked, who they are leaked with and so on. A niche character leaked with current speculation favourite like Banjo, Geno or Isaac all tend to have warm receptions.

Oh yeah, I guess I should have remembered that because of the whole "Grinch Leak" fiasco. But I suppose I should clarify that I mean that in terms of characters that have some degree of potential actual proof they may be in. I wasn't exactly one of those that was completely convinced the Grinch leak was real (Farthest I got was when I at least thought maybe Isaac had made it after all when that sprout item appeared that turned out to be a generic healing item, but that only briefly made me think just Isaac made it. Not all the others). But all the stuff surrounding Erdrick feels at least a little more plausible knowing what we know now about how DLC is being handled.

Though I guess to be fair if Banjo, Geno, or another speculation favorite was in Erdrick's spot right now, there would be more people ecstatic about all this. So apologies for the blanket statement.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I want Erdrick in because I want Dragon Quest to be in the game and think it's the natural conclusion alongside Ninja Gaiden of the NES era's major franchises being represented in Smash. I will say, as soon as Cloud got in, Dragon Quest should have been the next contender for the Square Enix spot going by how much of the NES era is already represented. Smash feels absolutely incomplete without Japan's biggest IP missing like that. Smash has largely become a history of Japanese gaming, so Dragon Quest really needs to be there to cement that legacy. It's a series that has earned a legendary status with a 30 year history of consistent releases, almost all of which have either been Nintendo exclusive or have eventually made it to a Nintendo console. The series is responsible for the console RPG as we know it, and thus gets the title of Grandfather of JRPGs. Smash fans continuously bicker about the series popularity in the West, but I genuinely don't think that matters in the slightest when we're talking about a series on that kind of level (and it's far from unknown in the West, not only has almost every title been released here, but it has multiple million seller titles. This isn't the same damn situation as Takumaru who just blatantly never released in the West until the Virtual Console).

I absolutely think it's brought out some of the worst in the community though. Claims that only characters that have long lasting fan bases should be more of a priority and that a new character in speculation can't be notable disgust me. "Bandwagoning" in of itself is not a problem no matter how many people try to claim it is. A new character choice that people see as viable or like because people make the right movesets that spark interest or just people understanding the importance of Dragon Quest are all valid reasons to jump on board with the character. "Bandwagons" are only a problem when people specifically jump on them to be right and push down others. Those are the bad people, and they exist with every character and within every fan base as trolls who should be appropriately dealt with. The implication of Dragon Quest or Erdrick not being viable because it didn't have long term popularity in the Smash community reinforces both the stagnation of speculation as only the chosen few grandfathered in picks are allowed any breathing room and the fact that fan demand should exclusively be driving the character inclusions for Smash and that we can't get characters for other reasons. Which speaks to stifle creativity in individuals like Sakurai, make the character process utterly boring due to stagnation, and doesn't permit for unique inclusions that offer something different outside of the fan requests. Plus, we know Sakurai has talked about wanting to work for those who aren't vocal, and there's a much wider fan base of Smash fans than the several thousand people who post online and are vocal about specific characters.

Add to that claims that Dragon Quest would only be included for advertisement purposes and not also for the nearly 30 year legacy the series has always struck me as entirely motivated by the dislike of the series in Smash. There's just no way to ignore that would be a massive factor in inclusion, even if it does happen to coincide with the release of Dragon Quest 11 Definitive Edition on Switch and other games like Builders 2.

I've mostly not talked about Erdrick up to this point, and that is because I'm mostly supportive of Dragon Quest in general for Smash. That said, I think there's a great deal of reason to choose Dragon Quest 3 and Erdrick as the representative. Dragon Quest doesn't really have a Cloud that absolutely dominates the series, and if you had to choose one, Erdrick is probably the best choice since he serves as the culmination of the first three games and Erdrick trilogy essentially. As the primary motivating character of the NES era, he seems ideal to include. Also, Dragon Quest 3 brought many elements like the class system and party systems to Dragon Quest that would become series staples. Much of the Dragon Quets identity is established through Erdrick and Dragon Quest 3, so I think he makes plenty of sense.

I might prefer to see Slime as the Dragon Quest rep for the sheer hilarity of such an inclusion, and I also may prefer other Square Enix reps like Geno myself, but a Dragon Quest character is nothing to scoff at and certainly Erdrick himself functions as the high caliber type of character absolutely deserving to be in Smash.