Why DON'T you want Erdrick in Smash?

[Will]

The only thing I have against Erdrick is that I really do not want to see his boring Super Famicom design in Smash. Yeah Japan would still freak out regardless but at this point if we're going to get another archetypical RPG hero dude like Marth and Link, I hope Sakurai would make a point of making him more "cartoony" to contrast him with the majority of the existing sword dudes. Maybe mix his NES and SNES designs together; the proportions and outfit of the SNES one with the more youthful nature of the NES design.

but how else will i get goku in smash at this point

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Aside from "Yet another anime cape swordsman clogging up the roster". I feel like most of this comes from the fact that Erdrick would undoubtedly be seen as the dreaded "shill pick"

Corrin left a bad taste in everyone's mouths in Smash 4; yet another homogeneous Fire Emblem character, this time shoved into the game purely for a marketing stunt. That's how I feel people see Erdrick as: While he certainly has the legacy to justify his entry into the fight, he feels like a very corporate pick, a character put in to try and push a franchise the West has repeatedly shown no interest in. Of course it worked wonders in Melee with Fire Emblem, so I also don't blame them for trying if he comes to pass

Also it doesn't help that he and Steve have become the mascot of the smug "Too bad fanboy! Your favorite isn't getting in so you're stuck with me, deal with it" mentality. Like seriously, I hate seeing that smug Erdrick meme as much as I hate Ugly Steve

 

[Will]

I hate seeing that smug Erdrick meme

never seen it in my life bro

every fanbase has one of those images that tries to **** on another character though, like

 

[Izanagi97]

Aside from "Yet another anime cape swordsman clogging up the roster". I feel like most of this comes from the fact that Erdrick would undoubtedly be seen as the dreaded "shill pick"

Corrin left a bad taste in everyone's mouths in Smash 4; yet another homogeneous Fire Emblem character, this time shoved into the game purely for a marketing stunt. That's how I feel people see Erdrick as: While he certainly has the legacy to justify his entry into the fight, he feels like a very corporate pick, a character put in to try and push a franchise the West has repeatedly shown no interest in. Of course it worked wonders in Melee with Fire Emblem, so I also don't blame them for trying if he comes to pass

Also it doesn't help that he and Steve have become the mascot of the smug "Too bad fanboy! Your favorite isn't getting in so you're stuck with me, deal with it" mentality. Like seriously, I hate seeing that smug Erdrick meme as much as I hate Ugly Steve

Yeah, those "shill picks" are best reserved for standalone DLC instead of being on a fighter's pass

 

[Will]

i feel like if they wanted to shill DQ they'd do the DQ11 protagonist

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Anybody calling Dragon Quest's inclusion in Smash as a shill pick has entirely missed the point of why Dragon Quest would be included in Smash. You're choosing a super reputable series with a 30 year history to include in Smash that had a massive hand in influencing the genre of JRPGs as a whole. Calling Erdrick a shill pick is the equivalent to calling Ryu a shill pick. Just because the character isn't a massive fan favorite doesn't make them shill picks. There's a genuinely compelling reason to add Dragon Quest to Smash in of just representing that legacy alone. Yes, maybe they do want to market it more in the States, but it's most definitely not a shill pick for Japan and unless they very clearly state that the only reason that they included a Dragon Quest character was to try to make the series sell better in the West, then he's not a shill pick.

To build somewhat on that, I'm still always confused by the fact that the community seems to demand that characters also be popular in the West. The previous frames of reference for Sakurai talking about not including Japanese characters were the likes of Marth and Roy almost being cut from Melee, Lucas's situation in Brawl with no Mother 3, and Takumaru. All three of them suffered from literally never having been released in the West, whereas Dragon Quest has consistently been released in the West outside of the SNES era and hasn't missed really any titles in recent memory with regards to releases in the West. The series isn't some unknown entity that people will just be bewildered to see all of a sudden. No one has ever provided me with a convincing reason as to why Japan's biggest third party franchise not currently in Smash (Resident Evil is sort of there, but falls short in merch and cultural relevance) can't just be a pick for Japan.

Not all Smash picks need to have the absolute most worldwide appeal or need to pander to the West so damn much. Nintendo really wants to sell the Fighter's Pass, and if you've bought it, well they've made their money and don't really care if they sell you one character you may be less keen on. You're also essentially getting a Challenger Pack for Free with the Fighter's Pass, so they can also more or less afford a mulligan to sell to customers if they want to. I think Dragon Quest would be a pick decided upon to appeal to Japanese fans and I wish the Smash forums were more willing to see that (And yes, in our horribly limited and narrow Japanese polls, Dragon Quest hasn't become super popular in Smash, but again, there are other reasons to pick characters than their immediately recognizable popularity specifically in Smash).

Also, just as a note, for all of those people speaking about the people who use Erdrick and Steve to deny Smash fans other things, I feel like you need to learn to ignore GameFAQs and 4chan. Of course you're going to find ****ty people trying to be pompous know-it-alls on those places. I've seen very little of that here on SmashBoards or even on Reddit for example. Certain corners of the internet are more deserving of your time and effort than others, and those places aren't it.

 

[Koopaul]

Eric makes a great point.

I'd like to remind a whole bunch of you that no one in the West knew who Marth or Roy were when Melee came out. But I can't find many who'd argue Melee would have been better off without them.

 

[fogbadge]

Corrin left a bad taste in everyone's mouths in Smash 4; yet another homogeneous Fire Emblem character, this time shoved into the game purely for a marketing stunt.

well sakurai claimed it was cause the smash team had all been playing fates and persuaded him into including them, which i find to be very believable

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well sakurai claimed it was cause the smash team had all been playing fates and pressured him into including them, which i find to be very believable

That's not an accurate assessment of his claims.

He was never pressured. He was convinced of how the character could be unique. Which was very important for a second FE DLC character. He was already hesitant on another FE character, since he felt Smash 4 was already getting quite a few at that point.

 

[fogbadge]

That's not an accurate assessment of his claims.

He was never pressured. He was convinced of how the character could be unique. Which was very important for a second FE DLC character. He was already hesitant on another FE character, since he felt Smash 4 was already getting quite a few at that point.

well persuaded in stead of pressured then

 

[Namasura]

Aside from "Yet another anime cape swordsman clogging up the roster". I feel like most of this comes from the fact that Erdrick would undoubtedly be seen as the dreaded "shill pick"

Corrin left a bad taste in everyone's mouths in Smash 4; yet another homogeneous Fire Emblem character, this time shoved into the game purely for a marketing stunt. That's how I feel people see Erdrick as: While he certainly has the legacy to justify his entry into the fight, he feels like a very corporate pick, a character put in to try and push a franchise the West has repeatedly shown no interest in. Of course it worked wonders in Melee with Fire Emblem, so I also don't blame them for trying if he comes to pass

Or maybe because Dragon Quest 3 is constantly voted one of the best games around by Japanese audiences and is a key piece of Famicom nostalgia?

Think outside the box of childish internet trolling for a moment, a 31 years old character from a well established franchise and who still gets referenced in Japanese pop culture after three decades is not a shill pick. Would he help to raise western awareness of DQ? Maybe, but no more than Geno being in would raise awareness to a new generation of fans.

I also don't think it's good to warp opinions based on what trolls are doing, like, I have met countless trolls who were related to Banjo, even out of smash discussion since I love Spyro for the PS1, a game that for some reason the fanatical side of the Banjo fanbase needs to constantly bring down, and had to deal with their rude behaviour, whisper campaigning, hypocrisy and hate mobing. This has never changed my opinion on Banjo's games or the fact I think they are a key piece of 64 history that should be in Smash.

 

[Torgo the Bear]

Because, if we MUST have a Dragon Quest rep, I would MUCH rather see Rocket Slime as a character. I feel like there are just so many better ways to make him unique and more creative. And besides, he makes more sense, being a member of the series mascot's species and all.

 

[SDFox]

Simple.
No idea who the dude is.

 

[DutchPichu]

Because I want Slime. In my opinion is far more unique, with all those swordfighters. Add to that: he is more recognizable for the west.

 

[Deathcarter]

but how else will i get goku in smash at this point

Everyone knows we need the superior OG Goku:

 

[PsychoJosh]

snip

Fair enough. I still don't want him in though. I don't think any of the stuff you mentioned (like him having a giant bird and a number of different weapons) makes any huge impact gameplay wise in of themselves. We already have characters with whips and boomerangs, magic and stance change mechanics, and I'm not really seeing what's so special about Erdrick's use of them that will make him more unique. Most of what he has, if what you're telling me is true, are fairly generic tools. So I don't really see unique gameplay emerging from them.

View attachment 225767

what do you mean it's different, they function the same even if they're completely different contraptions just like the egg robo's capabilities but all condensed into one build. just like how joker's grappling hook is isabelle's fishing rod that goes up.

Nice try. Aesthetic similarities are not the same as functional similarities. I did not conflate the two; you did. What I proposed for Eggman's moveset and Bowser Jr's actual moveset are barely even similar in function, unlike Joker and Isabelle's hooks which have the exact same mechanic. I knew you'd try to pull a false comparison like this but everything I proposed is functionally different and only similar in aesthetic.

 

[Will]

I knew you'd try to pull a false comparison like this but you need to try harder.

i'm too lazy to try harder but you still quoted it

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Note that today is Erdrick's rerate day in Rate Their Chances.

 

[Will]

Note that today is Erdrick's rerate day in Rate Their Chances.

dude they gave chrom a 0% and got absolutely demolished the day after so i have absolutely no trust in them

 

[GoodGrief741]

dude they gave chrom a 0% and got absolutely demolished the day after so i have absolutely no trust in them

You know there's no 'them' right? Anyone can participate in that thread.

 

[Will]

You know there's no 'them' right? Anyone can participate in that thread.

so i just imagined source gaming in my head

 

[The DanMan051]

i feel like if they wanted to shill DQ they'd do the DQ11 protagonist

Who has a nigh-identical fighting style

Spoiler

and at the end of the game earns the title of Erdrick, with XI being a stealth prequel to III.
Easy alt costume.

Corrin left a bad taste in everyone's mouths in Smash 4; yet another homogeneous Fire Emblem character

"Everyone" is definitely an exaggeration and the "homogeneous" claim is flat-out untrue-- a full half of their animations use their dragon transformation in some aspect. The only remotely "homogeneous" thing about them was having a down-b counter

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I totally get why a lot of people here, I mean smash fans prefer Slime over Erdrick.
Yes, Slime is more recognizable from the outside of DQ fandom and will definitely bring more unique movesets than another generic anime swordsman, but Dragon Quest is not Pokemon.
Dragon Quest was made to introduce CRPG to Japanese kids at the time computers weren't for everybody. It meant to be RPG, so the core of Dragon Quest is all about role-playing.
What Dragon Quest makes Dragon Quest is the experience of your journey as a Yuusha. It is not about being friends with monsters.
And the DQ3 Hero or Erdrick is THE Yuusha. Period.
So to represent Dragon Quest as a game, it has to be Yuusha. Not Slime.
Plus, I just don't want my Slime to get in just for sake of making not DQ fans happy enough. That is an insult to the character, Slime.

Putting all that away, this is me just fantasizing and making a hypothesis on a hypothesis, but if Sakurai is planning to invite Tales of series as well to complete the JRPG trinity, then I don't want see my big bois Cloud and Lloyd beating up on poor little Slime.
So that's my real reason.

 

[T∅XIC HYDRA]

My personal biggest reason to oppose Erdrick is there are other Square Enix properties I would far prefer (my list being topped with either Sephiroth or Sora) and while I'd like one, I don't have faith that a second fighters pass will be created. Beyond that, DQ doesn't have the massive die-hard fanbase it does in Japan. It's just not as widespread here. I think (for now) DQ is one of those series with characters who will easily work in Smash but don't have the worldwide popularity to justify that. The flip side of this is the same reason I say characters like Ratchet and Klank will also never make it.

 

[fogbadge]

My personal biggest reason to oppose Erdrick is there are other Square Enix properties I would far prefer (my list being topped with either Sephiroth or Sora) and while I'd like one, I don't have faith that a second fighters pass will be created. Beyond that, DQ doesn't have the massive die-hard fanbase it does in Japan. It's just not as widespread here. I think (for now) DQ is one of those series with characters who will easily work in Smash but don't have the worldwide popularity to justify that. The flip side of this is the same reason I say characters like Ratchet and Klank will also never make it.

sora isnt a square enix property

 

[T∅XIC HYDRA]

sora isnt a square enix property

Okay, yeah we can get technical about it, Disney owns him. But you know and I know he'd be presented as a Square character. Or at least would take the place of a Square character in the fighters pass. I suppose a better way to phrase what I'm saying is "Square Enix AFFILIATED property"

Believe me, in an ideal world, I'd have Sora as a DISNEY rep and Sephiroth as a Square rep but calling that a reach is beyond an understatement.

 

[OnyanRings]

I mean, i'd rather get Sora but Erdrick's awesome too, i'd be pleased with any Square character to be honest (Lara Croft, Geno, Sephiroth, 2B or even Bub)

 

[T∅XIC HYDRA]

I mean, i'd rather get Sora but Erdrick's awesome too, i'd be pleased with any Square character to be honest (Lara Croft, Geno, Sephiroth, 2B or even Bub)

Lara Croft is Square Enix?? Wtf that's wild. I gotta be honest though, I think Geno is dead. Maybe there's something I don't get because I didn't play Mario RPG but from an outside unbiased perspective I see a character who made an appearance in one game which was a collaboration between two important gaming companies that had no sequels and the character made no appearances outside said game. And it's been something like 20 years since that game came out. Can somebody explain why people are drawn to Geno 20 years later and why the community seems to think he has a shot? I get that he had a Mii costume in the last game but that seemed more like fan service than anything else. I dunno

Regardless as to who gets in for SE, I'm gonna play it, I have the fighters pass and am way too die-hard to not give every fighter a shot.

 

[fogbadge]

Okay, yeah we can get technical about it, Disney owns him. But you know and I know he'd be presented as a Square character. Or at least would take the place of a Square character in the fighters pass. I suppose a better way to phrase what I'm saying is "Square Enix AFFILIATED property"

Believe me, in an ideal world, I'd have Sora as a DISNEY rep and Sephiroth as a Square rep but calling that a reach is beyond an understatement.

well no cause they couldnt represent him as a square character that would require different licences, and theres nothing to say that his inclusion would block any se characters, remember 3rd party characters are there representing their games (or themselves really) not the companies that own them

 

[Teeb147]

Lara Croft is Square Enix?? Wtf that's wild. I gotta be honest though, I think Geno is dead. Maybe there's something I don't get because I didn't play Mario RPG but from an outside unbiased perspective I see a character who made an appearance in one game which was a collaboration between two important gaming companies that had no sequels and the character made no appearances outside said game. And it's been something like 20 years since that game came out. Can somebody explain why people are drawn to Geno 20 years later and why the community seems to think he has a shot? I get that he had a Mii costume in the last game but that seemed more like fan service than anything else. I dunno

Regardless as to who gets in for SE, I'm gonna play it, I have the fighters pass and am way too die-hard to not give every fighter a shot.

Geno has a legacy, is the easiest way to explain it. Mario RPG had a lot of impact and people wanted him for smash for a very long time.
The most important is that Sakurai acknowledged that very early on, and even said that he wanted to put geno in. But it's been a while since that. Though we can guess that geno did pretty well in the official ballot, since he's been a popular pick both over here and in japan. It at least got him a mii costume for the wii u version, and because k.rool and some others were upgraded from mii costume to fighter, it's easy for some to think that geno could be as well.

The problems are that he might not be the greatest character for dlc (business), and that outside the smash fandom he might've not gotten quite as many votes as the samples we have. We didn't even think the belmonts got a lot of votes for a long time (altho we still dont know completely for sure).

Mario rpg might be pretty old now, but geno's legacy lived on. It might not be enough to get into smash or revive the series, but yeah. (paper mario and mario & luigi sagas might've pretty much taken over that)

 

[T∅XIC HYDRA]

well no cause they couldnt represent him as a square character that would require different licences, and theres nothing to say that his inclusion would block any se characters, remember 3rd party characters are there representing their games (or themselves really) not the companies that own them

Right, I'm just saying I'd be surprised if it happened because people associate Sora with SE. I feel like they're going to try to get the most diverse options possible for the fighter pass but that's purely speculation. We'll see.

 

[3DSNinja]

Also Geno appeared in Superstar Saga and mind you he and Mallow were the ONLY Square Enix spirits.

 

[_Sheik]

Generic swordsman, that's literally it. Robin but without the limited magic gimmick. Yes I have played dragon Quest in the past btw. I do have a soft spot for Luminary but he'd be so bland moveset-wise, I'm not sure I want to see him get in

I totally get why a lot of people here, I mean smash fans prefer Slime over Erdrick.
Yes, Slime is more recognizable from the outside of DQ fandom and will definitely bring more unique movesets than another generic anime swordsman, but Dragon Quest is not Pokemon.
Dragon Quest was made to introduce CRPG to Japanese kids at the time computers weren't for everybody. It meant to be RPG, so the core of Dragon Quest is all about role-playing.
What Dragon Quest makes Dragon Quest is the experience of your journey as a Yuusha. It is not about being friends with monsters.
And the DQ3 Hero or Erdrick is THE Yuusha. Period.
So to represent Dragon Quest as a game, it has to be Yuusha. Not Slime.
Plus, I just don't want my Slime to get in just for sake of making not DQ fans happy enough. That is an insult to the character, Slime.

Putting all that away, this is me just fantasizing and making a hypothesis on a hypothesis, but if Sakurai is planning to invite Tales of series as well to complete the JRPG trinity, then I don't want see my big bois Cloud and Lloyd beating up on poor little Slime.
So that's my real reason.

Ah, here comes the "Isabelle is too innocent and Nintendo's not allowing Ridley to murder her" argument

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

If I Really wanted an RPG Character from a game designed by Akira Toriyama in Smash; It'd be Crono from Chrono Trigger; NOT Erdrick; Since Erdrick's kind of Boring; Wheras With Crono; There's a Lot of Potential; with His Elemental attacks ALONGSIDE his Swordfighting(Distinct from Robin since unlike Robin, Crono WOULDN'T just use disposable tomes & attacks) and all the Music from Chrono Trigger's Library(Frog's Theme, Robo's theme, etc); and The DLC Spirits of Frog, Marle, Magus, Lucca, Robo, etc; Anything Erdrick can do; Chrono can do better. . .

Plus Chuggaaconroy is LPing Chrono Trigger soon; and With How His LPs tend to line up with most Nintendo Announcements, It could happen. . .

 

[PsychoJosh]

Let me break it down.

Before, around the time of Melee (and don't call me a Melee fan because I don't like playing that game anymore), it was very likely that we'd see newcomers from obscure games who were just added in for the fun or uniqueness factor. Game and Watch is one such example. Ayumi Tachibana, a REALLY obscure game, was also going to be chosen as a playable character until they decided against it. Smash was a chance for obscure franchises to shine and it's how Earthbound and Fire Emblem gained their popularity in the west.

Now? It's nothing more than a popularity contest, with utterly mediocre characters being shoehorned in either for popularity's sake or to shill a new game, regardless of whether or not they have the makings of a unique fighter or have anything to do with Nintendo history. Unique and obscure characters made in the spirit of fun have no hope anymore. All that matters now is numbers. Think of how different things could've been if Ayumi had gotten into Melee. Think of how different some of these dead franchises might've been, and how they may have even seen western releases and new sequels in their series if Smash had breathed life into them once more.

Back then they struck a nice balance between legacy Nintendo all-stars and obscure characters that got to have their time in the sun. At most "marketing characters" were a minority possibly just to cash in on the latest fad. But the scales have now tipped and sadly they intend to use their powers for evil and not good. So Erdrick is possibly going to be in and I am done.

 

[Koopaul]

I agree the I miss the Melee days where strange or obscure characters had a chance of making it in the game. I still do. But why attack Erdrick specifically?

Erdrick is not a "marketing character". He is a legend and an All-Star even if you don't know it. He has no game to "shill" right now. One could argue Joker is more of a "marketing character" because he atleast has a game out on the market right now and other to come. Erdrick is a retro character who's game (DQIII) established great things for all JRPGs in the future.

Getting mad at Erdrick would be like getting mad at Simon Belmont. Were you mad when Simon Belmont got in the game? No. That's silly. And so is getting upset if Erdrick is added. Erdrick, like Simon, is a classic NES character. You may not have experienced his game, but we have his game to thank for influencing so many other RPGs that we enjoy today.

 

[AustarusIV]

If I Really wanted an RPG Character from a game designed by Akira Toriyama in Smash; It'd be Crono from Chrono Trigger; NOT Erdrick; Since Erdrick's kind of Boring; Wheras With Crono; There's a Lot of Potential; with His Elemental attacks ALONGSIDE his Swordfighting(Distinct from Robin since unlike Robin, Crono WOULDN'T just use disposable tomes & attacks) and all the Music from Chrono Trigger's Library(Frog's Theme, Robo's theme, etc); and The DLC Spirits of Frog, Marle, Magus, Lucca, Robo, etc; Anything Erdrick can do; Chrono can do better. . .

Plus Chuggaaconroy is LPing Chrono Trigger soon; and With How His LPs tend to line up with most Nintendo Announcements, It could happen. . .

Uh, you do realize Crono was an intentional expy of Erdrick?

Both are spiky-haired mute heroes with an affinity towards lightning magic and use a lot of sword techniques.

They were even both conceptualized by Yuji Horii, the creator of the Dragon Quest series. Crono is essentially a Dragon Quest character placed in a game with a Final Fantasy-esque battle system.

 

[fogbadge]

people we have no proof that any character was ver put in for marketing, also if that was the case why would nintendo want to do so for a 3rd party character instead of one of their own?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

With e3 coming up, there's a possibility of the character in question actually coming. The thread has reasonably run its course, mostly smoothly.

Thus I'm going to be locking it.