Why DON'T you want Erdrick in Smash?

[Deleted member]

I still don't get how Erdricj's archetype is overrepresented or represented at all. We really don't have a magic knight in Smash or even a proper knight.

The accusations of him being generic are mostly either ignoring the trent-setter status of DQ or just some fans freaking out over every character with sharp weapons.

Does link count as a knight

 

[fogbadge]

Does link count as a knight

well the botw incarnation defiantly does

 

[ryuu seika]

Because Erdrick is a relative unknown compared to the actual icon of his series, Rocket, who is also a far more unique character design, as Smash fighters go.

 

[Guynamednelson]

However, I believe that if certain fan requests are too "boomer", Erdrick should be too. You're gatekeeping characters for having their heyday be many years ago while supporting one whose heyday was even longer ago.

 

[timbo8]

My problem is that I don’t he should be reveal at a western event like e 3

 

[AEMehr]

I want both Erdrick and Slime in Smash... it's hard to pick just one... so I hope we get an Erdrick & Slime team.

Let's add a Slime Knight with Erdrick's armor as an alternate costume.

Spoiler

Instant solution, obviously.

 

[Arcadenik]

is it me or do you love team characters?

Obviously yes. I got my Duck Hunt Dog and Duck team like Banjo-Kazooie in spite of detractors saying it doesn’t make sense for them to work together as a team when they are enemies.

 

[TrainerZN]

Erdrick seems to be a very conflicting character in the Smash Bros. universe. The main reason is the fact that Dragon Quest's art is drawn by Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball and the man the Smash community seemingly has a burning hatred for. So I ask, what's that real reason you don't want Erdrick in Smash?

(Sorry if my english have mistakes) I am gonna be honest, I actually say a lot to my friends "**** Erdrick", "Erdrick is super stupid" But Actually, he dont deserves this. I interested to play a Dragon quest game, but why I say things like this? Maybe is because when I was younger I enjoy Kingdom Hearts, and this makes me prefer sora over erdrick.

My number one choice is 2B From the NieR Series, I love the character (Like Snake and Lucas) I love his design, his personality. NieR series have my favorite OST. If I see Erdrick I am gonna say: ****, 2B CANT or other people: ****, SORA OR CRONO CANT. Yes I know a NieR character in Smash is more crazy than a DQ character, but this is the reason, I think the people Who wants a character From square enix and see Erdrick are gonna be mad because of this

 

[Will]

i dont know erdrick but i believe not wanting him because i want someone else is very selfish against the rest of the millions of people who play smash

 

[PsychoJosh]

I typed out a reply but apparently the thread got closed for a moment. Didn't notice it was still up.

i dont know erdrick but i believe not wanting him because i want someone else is very selfish against the rest of the millions of people who play smash

Yeah welcome to the Smash community. It's not acceptable to be smug and selfish when your character doesn't get in, but it's perfectly fine to be those the moment they do get in.

Here's a legitimate question, why do characters HAVE to be popular or relevant? Why can't we get more characters that are neither? It's such a disservice to the breadth and variety of games, even the ones released by Nintendo themselves, that they have to pick from the same boring character archetypes instead of some cult of personality crap.

 

[Ponkotsu]

I love DQ more than anything
But before the leak the only people I saw that talked about him were a very small group of weird guys on some communities I'm part of

I love getting a dragon quest character on smash, but erdrick is far from the best choice
The franchise has evolved so much since dq3, there's tons of amazing human characters and so freaking many cool as heck monsters that I would much rather see in smash than little old roto

They picked him to represent the franchise, and I understand that, but it's a very tactless choice considering people have been complaining about sword wielding characters in smash bros for ages.
And they picked him to appeal to Western people, it's really dumb because they keep proving time and again they don't know what foreigners like or want in Japan.
It's the reason we got that dumb Yakuza dead souls (we're lucky we're not getting a zombie character because current Japan stereotype is that America is crazy about zombies ) and anything inafune did in the last 10, 15 years.

Personally I'd choose Yangus, for the longest time he was the one really popular character in America, it's the one character that make people go "oh yeah, dragon quest! Dang, love that game!" and his character arc is really remarkable.
He's not a hero of legend like the other guys, he's a humble thief who turned a new leaf and learns about humanity.
Also I'd really enjoy another heavy character.

Unless there's a twist like, Erdrick being like Bowser Jr where every color is a diff character I will be very disappointed too.
And that announcement is coming, mind you.

This months big DQ announcement is being made a day before Nintendo's presentation at e3, so brace yourselves.

 

[fogbadge]

i dont know erdrick but i believe not wanting him because i want someone else is very selfish against the rest of the millions of people who play smash

so you think we just should want all the most popular characters so as not to upset the vast majority of people?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's no reason you should have to like a character's inclusion. If you don't like 'em, you don't like 'em. Trying to be happy for others is a choice. Respecting others about it is really not a choice here, it's a rule.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Ehh. The only reason I'd be against is because 1) I want Geno and 2) I don't like Dragon Quest.

If we have to have a Dragon Quest character on the roster (which I'm not wholly against; we should have more than two Square characters IMO), I think Erdrick would be better than that weird slime thing. Erdrick is an individual while the slime is just a ... well, a slime. I'd rather have an individual character with an identity than some faceless mascot.

 

[BZL8]

For anyone who doesn't understand or isn't fully in the know of why Sakurai would potentially choose Erdrick, TV Tropes puts it out the best. And it's not just because they want to push the series out in the West more (Yes, I understand money has a potential role in all of this).

Dragon Quest III was an outstanding success in Japan—so much so that people were actually being mugged on the street for their copy, something that just did not happen with video games back then. The insane amount of hype that led to these events wasn't totally unfounded though; while Dragon Quest II had introduced the concept of multiple-character parties to most players at the time, it was restrictive to the point that some people complained directly to Enix itself. In response to these outcries, Dragon Quest III introduced the Job System that would appear in various Dragon Quest games, allowing you to customize your party to some degree. You could also pick everyone's gender, meaning that if you wanted a team of Action Girls, nothing was stopping you… And female characters got to enjoy a few benefits barred to their male counterparts.

And thus, at this juncture, it needs to be emphasized, especially for our younger readers: Dragon Quest III is quite possibly the single most influential and important Japanese video game—not just RPG, but video game—ever made. Its vast popularity meant it was endlessly imitated or served as inspiration for other games and their mechanics, either to improve on or challenge parts of the design tenets it laid out; the influence of the game on the RPG, and even overall video game, industry in Japan is nearly impossible to overstate. And because of this and the game's general popularity, it has an outsized place in the Japanese cultural zeitgeist as a whole—when a piece of Japanese non-video-game media references RPGs, 99% of the time, it'll reference Dragon Quest III, even as of The New '10s, and of course other video games directly reference it all the time. The only other games that can really be argued to command remotely similar mindshare, both in game industry influence and cultural presence, are the original Super Mario Bros, the original Pokemon games, and more recently, Puzzles and Dragons —and even then, the latter two themselves owe more than a little to Dragon Quest.

In short, this is a tremendously important game, and if you're interested in the history and evolution of video games, you should probably be familiar with it.

Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/DragonQuestIII

 

[Will]

so you think we just should want all the most popular characters so as not to upset the vast majority of people?

nah i was talking about a specific type of that idea. like, wanting something like sora over erdrick on its own is fine but like it's kind of weird if you start a smear campaign against the dude just on the fact that you don't like him. especially if it's going into the mindset that the opinion is a fact.

Here's a legitimate question, why do characters HAVE to be popular or relevant? Why can't we get more characters that are neither?

t's such a disservice to the breadth and variety of games, even the ones released by Nintendo themselves, that they have to pick from the same boring character archetypes instead of some cult of personality crap.

who exactly fits this non-boring non-cult personality type for you

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm conflicted with Erdrick.

Dragon Quest is an extremely iconic franchise, and I'm not questioning whether or not it deserves a character because it absolutely does. It's just that Erdrick isn't really who I'd choose to represent the series, and his popularity before the rumors reflect this. I feel like there were a plethora of better options to go with, and I've never really considered Erdrick to be a face for the series. If Nintendo specifically chose this character and not Sakurai (who might've had a decent excuse, like moveset potential), then I'd really like to hear their reasoning.

Personally, I think it might've been better if Erdrick wasn't DLC. Even if he is somewhat popular in Japan, the rest of the world just doesn't seem to care about him. DLC just isn't a good time to experiment with multiple "surprise' characters, and I really wish Nintendo would've tried focusing on making at least half of the DLC be characters who fans expect and/or want. Many people have invested their faith (and money) in the fighter pass, and if this trend continues, I can see DLC going out with a whimper like it did in Smash 4 with Corrin and Bayo.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm conflicted with Erdrick.

Dragon Quest is an extremely iconic franchise, and I'm not questioning whether or not it deserves a character because it absolutely does. It's just that Erdrick isn't really who I'd choose to represent the series, and his popularity before the rumors reflect this. I feel like there were a plethora of better options to go with, and I've never really considered Erdrick to be a face for the series. If Nintendo specifically chose this character and not Sakurai (who might've had a decent excuse, like moveset potential), then I'd really like to hear their reasoning.

Personally, I think it might've been better if Erdrick wasn't DLC. Even if he is somewhat popular in Japan, the rest of the world just doesn't seem to care about him. DLC just isn't a good time to experiment with multiple "surprise' characters, and I really wish Nintendo would've tried focusing on making at least half of the DLC be characters who fans expect and/or want. Many people have invested their faith (and money) in the fighter pass, and if this trend continues, I can see DLC going out with a whimper like it did in Smash 4 with Corrin and Bayo.

If Slime is there along with erdrick in some form then we get to see the cute mascot as well.
There's been plenty of talk on why a hero would be a good playable rep over a slime, Nothing wrong with wanting slime for one though.

 

[fogbadge]

nah i was talking about a specific type of that idea. like, wanting something like sora over erdrick on its own is fine but like it's kind of weird if you start a smear campaign against the dude just on the fact that you don't like him. especially if it's going into the mindset that the opinion is a fact.

ah now there is one of the more unpleasant parts of the fandom, im sure plenty of us have seen such things against characters we love

 

[OrpheusTelos]

At this point I'm completely indifferent to Erdrick getting in, I just want the next character to be revealed so we can move on and talk about literally anything else. Also as someone who's friends with a few hardcore Dragon Quest fans, I feel bad that nobody can discuss the series anymore without outsiders trying to derail it and make it about Smash

 

[PsychoJosh]

The Belmonts are super popular and people have wanted Castlevania in Smash ever since Brawl, are you actually insane

who exactly fits this non-boring non-cult personality type for you

See my signature. I have dozens of such characters.

Spoiler

First parties:
Mach Rider
Funky Kong
Lip
F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
Mona (Warioware)
Pauline
Takamaru
Wario Land Wario
Andy (Advance Wars)
Game Boy (yes, a walking, talking Game Boy)

Third parties:
Earthworm Jim
Dr. Eggman
Battletoads
Goemon
Sparkster
Vectorman
Tetris
Spyro the Dragon
Klonoa

 

[Will]

The Belmonts are super popular and people have wanted Castlevania in Smash ever since Brawl, are you actually insane

Maybe Castlevania, but Simon hasn't seen the light of day for a long time, neither has Richter. All they have now is nostalgia collections. Alucard was already up on the top list of people Sakurai was even considering for Castlevania, so it was a clear battle of who to even put in.

See my signature. I have dozens of such characters.

Okay. Now I want you to tell me what each character brings new to the table that isn't already done by any other character. Cause idk about you but you sure some have some idea of Pauline that isn't Peach Clone #3, as is Joker supposedly being Isabelle/Bayonetta/Cloud clone hybrid.

Spoiler

respect points for funky kong though tbh

 

[fogbadge]

one thing i forgot to mention in my first post, it would kind of feel like hes trying to meet the goku fans half way

 

[PsychoJosh]

Maybe Castlevania, but Simon hasn't seen the light of day for a long time, neither has Richter. All they have now is nostalgia collections.

Doesn't matter. Simon and Richter are the faces of the series, so that's good enough for a Castlevania characters.

Okay. Now I want you to tell me what each character brings new to the table that isn't already done by any other character. Cause idk about you but you sure some have some idea of Pauline that isn't Peach Clone #3, as is Joker supposedly being Isabelle/Bayonetta/Cloud clone hybrid.

Alright.

Spoiler

Earthworm Jim: Heavyweight zoner character with a unique "ammo gauge" mechanic - in addition to being able to cancel any of his jabs and tilts into gunfire from his plasma blaster, he can aim in eight directions while firing, and also a couple of his specials (Mega Plasma and Homing Missile) each require ammunition in order to be used. Ammo starts at 1200 and gradually refills after going underneath 100.

Funky Kong: Heavyweight with a lot of aerial mobility. Can surf through the air on his surfboard and fire his fruit weapons from Donkey Kong 64 while in the air and on the ground.

Dr. Eggman: Super heavyweight with a transforming vehicle that changes his moveset depending on its configuration. It can switch between Egg Walker and hovering Egg Pod modes and also uses a number of different mech transformations based on his boss appearances from the original Sonic trilogy.

Battletoads: Zitz, Rash and Pimple are all echo fighters with the same moveset distributed across three different weight classes (light/medium/heavy), giving them all unique variants of the same moveset. Can ride around on their jets and hoverbikes, zipline in eight directions via their tongues, and do combos into Smash Hits, which become extremely enormous and powerful if certain conditions are met.

Mona (Warioware): Lightweight wacky character with humorous and disproportionately large attacks based on her microgames. Attacks people with a strange assortment of food items that she can also use to heal herself with (toast and eggs, pizza, etc.) Summons animal buddies to walk around stage and assist her in various ways. Can ride around on her scooter similarly to Wario, but do hot tire tricks and flips and is much faster.

F-Type (Stunt Race FX): Super Heavyweight speedy character. Despite his size, he is very fast and has incredible inertia but needs to be careful about his momentum. Can do things naturally intrinsic to cars, such as doing a "rocket start" from a standstill, peeling out and creating a trail of flames on the stage with its tires, doing ramp launches and detonating itself, sending its pieces flying everywhere. Is a very unique fighter.

Lip (Panel de Pon): Lightweight character whose strategy involves building panel block towers on stage. Using a cursor special, she can manipulate the blocks to create chains and combos to power up her magic attacks and garbage block special move, as well as leave magical spells on stage in the shape of the block tower she just popped - electrical grids, freezing ice pillars, flame pillars, pollen clouds that plant flowers on people's heads, etc. She can also perform a "rainbow dash" in mid-air where she will dash on top of a rainbow and be able to technically perform grounded smash-attacks while in the air.

These are just a few examples but I think I've made my point. Overall there are plenty of characters that can be nothing like anything we've ever seen before in Smash, easily leaving characters like Erdrick and Joker in the dust in terms of imagination and creativity. Characters like the latter two are just wanted for their personality status instead of being able to add anything unique to Smash. My ideas are much better than the downtrodden trope of "sword user with some projectiles" that Erdrick is inevitably going to end up being.

 

[Perkilator]

Guys, can we NOT start this again? Nobody wants a repeat of Thursday.

 

[Namasura]

Snip

So, basically

Characters I like: Sakurai will bring about their games on full potential, work overtime on new mechanics for them, absolutely avoid overlap even though in some cases its impossible but it doesn't matter, just do a 10/10 work of art for a character that got in because of legacy and creativity.

Characters I dislike: Sakurai will be lazy, won't bring about anything unique from their game and just default to standard archetypes. All their movies will overlap with someone else's and that is bad here, just do a 1/10 job for a character that got in because of popularity.

I don't think this is a fair standard, this is how somehow Goemon is new unique but Erdrick is lame and uncreative despite being very similar characters.
Like, Joker with persona switching for example, would have been unique, but Sakurai is human and the staff will take shortcuts.

I could go on and on describing how Erdrick could use party members and bring about his giant flying bird, use every item in the game, use every weapon he can wield in the game, Swords, Lances, Fisticuff fighting, Boomerangs, Scythes, Hammers and Whips, Oh! And he gets to use all the skills later games add to these weapons, oh, and the skills associated with character personalities such Courage, Humanity, Sex Appeal and Charisma from Dragon Quest 8 since DQ3 had a personality system and Erdrick could have all those personalities. Oh and he can use spells and pick them from the menu and all these spells work in unique ways, he can change armor to change his stats, oh and Erdrick was in a spinoff arcade game with tamed monsters, so he can use any of the hundred of monsters DQ has for his moveset...

But nothing here would be realistic, right? It's easy to draw your picks as perfect. Lip could come swinging her stick like a sword, and Bub could just do generic mascot punching and kicking with his bubble working like a re-skinned freeze effect. Or maybe Sakurai would do a good job. Same for Erdrick.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something important to remember; moveset potential is always sweet. But it doesn't mean it's easy to implement. Likewise, being unique for the sake of unique is pretty hard to implement too. Shortcuts are taken for a reason, via clones, semi-clones, echoes, or using someone as a base. Wolf borders on semi-clone, but is vastly unique otherwise. Whereas Ness used Mario as a base, but is still highly unique(with you could argue only a slightly similar B move and a few A moves with some similar hitboxes, perhaps. At least in Smash 64).

How one can be unique isn't enough in itself. How you can balance that out into a character that flows well is vastly more important. Erdrick doesn't lack this one bit either. He has tons of ways to play in a balanced manner that works well. Just adding the extra weapons shouldn't be your goal alone. It should be if you can make the moveset coherent while doing that. Is party members the best way to do things outside of a Final Smash? You have to consider loading times. We don't have a lot of characters who can summon stuff due to the game lagging. So sometimes you have to look past potential and look more for feasible first.

Both sides have a point, basically. Nothing wrong with wanting 100% unique characters. It's just not feasible in any fighting game, if you want a cast larger than... 30 perhaps would be the right number. Likewise, there's nothing wrong with clones/semi-clones/echoes/similar move-using characters either. They're both valid and successful styles. Likewise, Smash runs on character choices. The more there is, the more fanbases it pleases. So less characters is not optimal anymore. You could argue they're going overboard, but it's still working as a design pretttttty well.

--------------------

Now, for me, Erdrick is someone who I always found workable as a fun and unique character. I never really got the idea that somehow holding a sword makes you similar to another user. Same franchise or otherwise. It's not that simple. The closest similarity you could at best say is the same hitboxes, but other than disjoints, there's tons of animations from non-weapon users that would be effectively the same thing. So it's really a matter of how to use his items and spells that heavily represent Dragon Quest yet still be feasible. I always felt magical attacks could work well, but being a sword with magic doesn't seem like it fits how DQ works super well bar a few special items you can get. Thus, I'd say something closer to Robin or Ganondorf to a degree. Erdrick could use some spells for moves, and his sword for others. Another thing I'd like to see is referencing how the Hero Class has multiple armors. So basically Leather, Steel, Magic, Armor of Erdrick(though I wouldn't mind the actual character be the Hero Class with multiple alts. It'd honestly feel the same overall thing as I want the Hero Class more than any specific Hero. That's what I grew up, so it means the most to me). My thoughts are something similar to this, though it's definitely not a fully refined idea;

-Leather Armor: Least amount of weight, so he moves the fastest, but also is easier to knockback.
-Steel Armor: Is harder to knockback by a bit, but also slightly slows down in return.
-Magic Armor: Gets even heavier, and moves far slower than the Leather Armor, but also heals a slight amount of Percent as you move.
-Armor of Erdrick: The strongest armor, with the most weight. Now you take no damage from Poison itself(moves that technically have Poison, like Ivysaur's, are normal damage, you're just immune to the status), and have a little bit of Super Armor as well.

I got no clue how to have to Swords work. I also don't remember them nearly as well for the first game. Just the Flame Sword and Sword of Erdrick at best.

 

[PsychoJosh]

So, basically

Alright, since you're going to keep being reductive and missing the point completely, I can do that with your awful arguments too.

So, basically:

"Character I like will do every unique thing possible and have absolutely nothing derivative, completely going against his character design and the obvious gameplay that can be gleaned from his design alone, and ignore his original game to use forced 'unique' mechanics I came up with off the top of my head, despite his design and his source material not indicating any original weapons, techniques or concepts that would be unique to a fighting game whatseover, they'll go against his core concept and do completely off the wall and insane crap with him. The developers of the game will somehow attempt to factor in concepts like 'charisma' and 'sex appeal' into his moveset, even though I am not able to come up with an idea of how that will possibly work in a fighting game on my own, it's something the developers of the game will be able to come up with for me and make it work perfectly anyways because I said so. Also I will propose a moveset that uses many of the weapons and techniques we've seen before with other characters, thus defeating the whole point of my argument."

"Characters YOU like will just be glorified sword and magic users that basically use their completely unique weapons as cudgels and nothing more, basically reskinning link a bunch of times with unique weapon models, completely ignoring their very character designs and concepts from their games which necessarily have much more going for them than 'generic anime sword user #56523566555', because for whatever reason I do not consider character concepts themselves to be intrinsic to a character's gameplay design and think that any character is allowed to do anything at any time. I reduce characters you like to basic functions that we've seen before because I do not wish to accept the fact that the character I like has a derivative and samey design and none of the ideas I proposed of making him "unique" in a game like Smash make any sense whatsoever."

I don't really get why you go about being like this, obviously they're not going to force ridiculous and nonsensical mechanics onto a character that ignores his design. He's going to use his sword and shield, and some magic. Character designs are an integral part of how they play, they don't just ignore the design of the character to make it do whatever random nonsense you can think of. A character like Diddy Kong is not going to be a super heavyweight for example. Characters always do things that make sense with their design, so it is absolutely possible and necessary to judge a character by its cover sometimes, such is the case with Erdrick. He has a sword and shield, he is going to use a sword and shield in his moveset. He's going to use stuff that's intrinsic to his design and his original game. Anything else is just special pleading from you because you don't want to admit how derivative his design is. I proposed characters that have unique designs that would be able to bring new things to Smash, that make sense in the context of both their personalities and Smash's gameplay, and you just proposed utter nonsense off the top of your head, without any thought put into how it will play or what it will add, in a desperate attempt to make your character seem more unique than he really will be.

I still don't get how Erdricj's archetype is overrepresented or represented at all. We really don't have a magic knight in Smash or even a proper knight..

"Magic knight" is not a unique concept. It's just a title. BOTW Link could be called a "magic knight". It doesn't make him more unique than the other Links that aren't.

 

[Teeb147]

Alright, since you're going to keep being reductive and missing the point completely, I can do that with your awful arguments too.

So, basically:

"Character I like will do every unique thing possible and have absolutely nothing derivative, completely going against his character design and the obvious gameplay that can be gleaned from his design alone, and ignore his original game to use forced 'unique' mechanics I came up with off the top of my head, despite his design and his source material not indicating any original weapons, techniques or concepts that would be unique to a fighting game whatseover, they'll go against his core concept and do completely off the wall and insane crap with him. The developers of the game will somehow attempt to factor in concepts like 'charisma' and 'sex appeal' into his moveset, even though I am not able to come up with an idea of how that will possibly work in a fighting game on my own, it's something the developers of the game will be able to come up with for me and make it work perfectly anyways because I said so. Also I will propose a moveset that uses many of the weapons and techniques we've seen before with other characters, thus defeating the whole point of my argument."

"Characters YOU like will just be glorified sword and magic users that basically use their completely unique weapons as cudgels and nothing more, basically reskinning link a bunch of times with unique weapon models, completely ignoring their very character designs and concepts from their games which necessarily have much more going for them than 'generic anime sword user #56523566555', because for whatever reason I do not consider character concepts themselves to be intrinsic to a character's gameplay design and think that any character is allowed to do anything at any time. I reduce characters you like to basic functions that we've seen before because I do not wish to accept the fact that the character I like has a derivative and samey design and none of the ideas I proposed of making him "unique" in a game like Smash make any sense whatsoever."

I don't really get why you go about being like this, obviously they're not going to force ridiculous and nonsensical mechanics onto a character that ignores his design. He's going to use his sword and shield, and some magic. Character designs are an integral part of how they play, they don't just ignore the design of the character to make it do whatever random nonsense you can think of. A character like Diddy Kong is not going to be a super heavyweight for example. Characters always do things that make sense with their design, so it is absolutely possible and necessary to judge a character by its cover sometimes, such is the case with Erdrick. He has a sword and shield, he is going to use a sword and shield in his moveset. He's going to use stuff that's intrinsic to his design and his original game. Anything else is just special pleading from you because you don't want to admit how derivative his design is.



"Magic knight" is not a unique concept. It's just a title and nothing else. BOTW Link could be called a "magic knight". It doesn't make him more unique than the other Links that aren't.

Erdrick's original design in the game even on the nes was to use many weapons.

They're not like you imagine:

 

[GoodGrief741]

He's going to use stuff that's intrinsic to his design and his original game.

Oh then he's going to be unique. Lol glad we agree.

 

[Namasura]

He's going to use stuff that's intrinsic to his design and his original game.

But in his original game he does use a variety of items, you do create and customize party members, you do get a giant bird, and you are forced to use all sorts of weapons as the next best weapon is sometimes an ax or a lance and its useful to have a whip and boomerang to hit multiple enemies at once, these things are not insane. Furthermore, my post was a joke, I think that is made me clear by saying my paragraph was not realistic? Yet the first half of things I mentioned are 100% things Erdrick do in his game, over the second half, things like using the personality skills of 8 are of course a joke, but the weapon skills? That would be like Simon using something from later Castlevania titles... which he does, so again, not insane, in fact, in later appearances Erdrick uses things from later games like the tension mechanics and a certain weapon skill. I think you misunderstand the intrinsic design of his original game.

Everything with Hr (as well as all key items). on this image and a whole lot more can be used by Erdrick in his game. Do I think he will use it? Likely not, maybe a lance on a dash or something, just like Joker wasn't like I wanted him and the Links don't use enough from their own distinctive games (but nothing what I wanted was 'out of their games' its all related to how th games play). But I also don't think most characters on your list will go as in deep as you think they will. That is my argument, I guess.

I mean, I will not pretend I understand how well one needs to act to not be a "generic swordsmen", there is a character who turns into a dragon and yet is a generic swordsman, apparently, but I do not see how you cannot build a different style of characters using the same weapon, lots of games do it with just punching and kicking, heck, some games do it with swords. To me, the reasons for why Erdrick has to be bad here are all vague, the same way why legacy doesn't count for him but counts for others.

 

[Teeb147]

But in his original game he does use a variety of items, you do create and customize party members, you do get a giant bird, and you are forced to use all sorts of weapons as the next best weapon is sometimes an ax or a lance and its useful to have a whip and boomerang to hit multiple enemies at once, these things are not insane. Furthermore, my post was a joke, I think that is made me clear by saying my paragraph was not realistic? Yet the first half of things I mentioned are 100% things Erdrick do in his game, over the second half, things like using the personality skills of 8 are of course a joke, but the weapon skills? That would be like Simon using something from later Castlevania titles... which he does, so again, not insane, in fact, in later appearances Erdrick uses things from later games like the tension mechanics and a certain weapon skill. I think you misunderstand the intrinsic design of his original game.

I mean, I will not pretend I understand how well one needs to act to not be a "generic swordsmen", there is a character who turns into a dragon and yet is a generic swordsman, apparently, but I do not see how you cannot build a different style of characters using the same weapon, lots of games do it with just punching and kicking, heck, some games do it with swords. To me, the reasons for why Erdrick has to be bad here are all vague, the same way why legacy doesn't count for him but counts for others.

Putting aside the personality stuff, I would still ****ing love a class system for a character in smash.

I know it's not exactly canon to the older games, but imagine being able to switch whenever wanted (there is a skill in DQ9 for a sage to change a member's class anywhere). A thief class to be faster, warrior to be tougher, mage for more magic, and the hero class being the jack of all trades. I know it probably wouldn't happen but it's a fun idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Putting aside the personality stuff, I would still ****ing love a class system for a character in smash.

I know it's not exactly canon to the older games, but imagine being able to switch whenever wanted (there is a skill in DQ9 for a sage to change a member's class anywhere). A thief class to be faster, warrior to be tougher, mage for more magic, and the hero class being the jack of all trades. I know it probably wouldn't happen but it's a fun idea.

I honestly would've liked to see a bit more done with Transformation characters and Shulk. It's like they're two-halves of the idea. As a Class Change could essentially be similar to a Transformation character, but may or may not heavily change the model too.

I've worked a bit on a similar one for my Brian moveset(basically the Class Change goes to another of the 4 Elements(Fire, Earth, Water, Wind) to do similar but unique attacks. Almost akin to Echoes stacked into one character, when it comes to tangible differences. The actual damage and abilities are more closer to Ken. In a twist, I worked on this wayyyyyyy before Ken's reveal. It's also very comparable to Custom Moves).

What idea for a Class Change are you thinking? What's the key differences? Weapons? Armor? Types of magic? Summons?

 

[Namasura]

Putting aside the personality stuff, I would still ****ing love a class system for a character in smash.

I know it's not exactly canon to the older games, but imagine being able to switch whenever wanted (there is a skill in DQ9 for a sage to change a member's class anywhere). A thief class to be faster, warrior to be tougher, mage for more magic, and the hero class being the jack of all trades. I know it probably wouldn't happen but it's a fun idea.

I think a Class Change gimmick would be a better fit for a Bravely Default character or something similar, DQ protagonists are clearly the Hero/Yuusha class first and sometimes you can change it for something else.

 

[Teeb147]

I honestly would've liked to see a bit more done with Transformation characters and Shulk. It's like they're two-halves of the idea. As a Class Change could essentially be similar to a Transformation character, but may or may not heavily change the model too.

I've worked a bit on a similar one for my Brian moveset(basically the Class Change goes to another of the 4 Elements(Fire, Earth, Water, Wind) to do similar but unique attacks. Almost akin to Echoes stacked into one character, when it comes to tangible differences. The actual damage and abilities are more closer to Ken. In a twist, I worked on this wayyyyyyy before Ken's reveal. It's also very comparable to Custom Moves).

What idea for a Class Change are you thinking? What's the key differences? Weapons? Armor? Types of magic? Summons?

At its simplest, the changes I mentioned, but it could go as far as change weapons, skills or even magic too. There's no summons in Dragon Quest but then again a monster tamer would be able to use monsters, so i guess anything's possible. The list of classes for later games is immense. DQIII only had around 9. I think the 4 i mentioned would be the more basic ones. I can add the martial artist for strength. I'm going to list some of the weapons each are more known for, because i havent thought of one set for each.

Martial Artist: Stronger. + Fisticuff, Pole or Claw attacks and skills
Warrior: Tougher. + Axe, Hammer or Club attacks and skills
Thief: Faster. + Knife, Whips or Boomerang attacks and skills.
Mage: more Magic + Staff and other Magic spells

And of course the Hero class which would be good in all areas.

I think a Class Change gimmick would be a better fit for a Bravely Default character or something similar, DQ protagonists are clearly the Hero/Yuusha class first and sometimes you can change it for something else.

Well no because in dragon quest 6 and 7 you have to unlock the hero class.
The hero class isn't even in dq9, and not even mentioned in some of the other games.

If we count Dragon Quest Heroes 2, a lot of dragon quest game have a class system, and japanese players like it quite a bit. So while i dont expec it, it's really not out of the realm of possibility. (even if just not canon for erdrick :/)

 

[Will]

Simon and Richter are the faces of the series

more like simon and alucard

richter's got lore that makes him the worst belmont and not a netflix show like trevor

Dr. Eggman: Super heavyweight with a transforming vehicle that changes his moveset depending on its configuration. It can switch between Egg Walker and hovering Egg Pod modes and also uses a number of different mech transformations based on his boss appearances from the original Sonic trilogy.

au contraire

what do you mean it's different, they function the same even if they're completely different contraptions just like the egg robo's capabilities but all condensed into one build. just like how joker's grappling hook is isabelle's fishing rod that goes up.

I honestly would've liked to see a bit more done with Transformation characters and Shulk.

oh god dont even get me started on shulk

two of these monado arts dont even exist wtf sakurai

BOTW Link could be called a "magic knight".

There is no magic in his moveset at all.

If anything BOTW Link is a futuristic knight because of how advanced Sheikah tech is.

 

[Deleted member]

Look, I don't think I'm going to keep up with this thread but at least I can say something to finish my part on it. For people who don't want Erdrick, them being in or not won't make any other character that you like playable. So a lot of the hate just feels unfounded.

It's really amazing how the speculation of the character has really evolved, they are so notorious now that he has 2 freaking threads. I'm kinda amazed by the fact that even if they get into the game people just stopped speculating about the other 3 remaining picks. Like, Erdrick being in the game wont suddenly make Banjo/MC/Phoenix Wright/etc. less likely (aside probably from other picks from SE but even then there's nothing preventing 2 characters from the same company).

And the disdain is for a character that would be able to pass a lot of the ridiculous checklists people have regarding characters as: its from a series that is deeply rooted on Nintendo systems, the series has a lot of influence in the JRPG genre as its pretty much the father of modern JRPGs, the series still gets a lot of new entries (we're getting at least Builders 2 and XI S, not to mention Monsters and XII starting production), sales aren't an issue aside from the west (and even so has achieved a few entries with 1+million sales in the west), moveset potential is there even if you don't like swordsmen (which are less than 1/4-1/5th of the roster) and the artstyle meshes well with the smash universe.

I mean, at this point we might as well remove all pretensions regarding checklists regarding characters. Especially because I just think at this point, people just search for reasons to dislike ****. I think we should just be able to enjoy more if we start getting less worried about how the roster is not perfect and just enjoy Smash as it is.

 

[Will]

the series has a lot of influence in the JRPG genre as its pretty much the father of modern JRPGs

more like older/classic JRPGs. Modern JRPG godfather is something more real-time action based, whichever one did it critically the first time

could be a lot of titles, like:

kingdom hearts
demon souls
tales of
xeno[insert suffix]

 

[Teeb147]

more like older/classic JRPGs. Modern JRPG godfather is something more real-time action based, whichever one did it critically the first time

could be a lot of titles, like:

kingdom hearts
demon souls
tales of
xeno[insert suffix]

The Mana series. There was also Crystalis on NES, those would be the revolutiionary ones that were actually really good action-rpgs.
Of course there were some other things before those. I'm not sure if Ys would count or not, in the first one we couldnt even swing the sword lol.

 

[Deathcarter]

The only thing I have against Erdrick is that I really do not want to see his boring Super Famicom design in Smash. Yeah Japan would still freak out regardless but at this point if we're going to get another archetypical RPG hero dude like Marth and Link, I hope Sakurai would make a point of making him more "cartoony" to contrast him with the majority of the existing sword dudes. Maybe mix his NES and SNES designs together; the proportions and outfit of the SNES one with the more youthful nature of the NES design.