Why does the Smash community have a stigma against sword-wielders?

[Luigifan18]

You are an alt of @31fps. Your opinion is no longer valid.

You say that as though it ever was valid...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

You say that as though it ever was valid...

Lol true. It was a pretty bad one to begin with.

 

[Makai Wars]

Like others have said, it's not swords, it's FE. There is inherently nothing wrong with using a sword, swords are cool and there are a ton of different kinds of them all with their own way to be used, so when FE rolls up with 4 copies of the same character, one generic sword moveset and two more unique movesets still based around swords, people are gonna have words about it.
If Isaac got in an was a proper Earthbender who just happened to use a sword, no one would complain.

 

[Jyl]

Like others have said, it's not swords, it's FE. There is inherently nothing wrong with using a sword, swords are cool and there are a ton of different kinds of them all with their own way to be used, so when FE rolls up with 4 copies of the same character, one generic sword moveset and two more unique movesets still based around swords, people are gonna have words about it.
If Isaac got in an was a proper Earthbender who just happened to use a sword, no one would complain.

I completely agree with you.
However if Isaac does get in, there will be some braindead people who will complain about Isaac for being "another generic anime swordsman." There always is.

 

[Makai Wars]

I completely agree with you.
However if Isaac does get in, there will be some braindead people who will complain about Isaac for being "another generic anime swordsman." There always is.

The stigma was created by FE oversaturation in the first place so it makes sense, any and every new swordfighter from this point is going to need to work twice as hard to set themself apart from the mob

 

[Folt]

The stigma was created by FE oversaturation in the first place so it makes sense, any and every new swordfighter from this point is going to need to work twice as hard to set themself apart from the mob

Like Robin and Corrin then?

 

[AsterikDatBoi]

However if Isaac does get in, there will be some braindead people who will complain about Isaac for being "another generic anime swordsman." There always is.

Too bad if Lloyd gets in, They're gonna rampage and the whole community with words and it will turn salty. I just wanted to be fair that Issac will get in for sure. Even Felix should be in, not Lloyd.

 

[SmashBro99]

Too bad if Lloyd gets in, They're gonna rampage and the whole community with words and it will turn salty. I just wanted to be fair that Issac will get in for sure. Even Felix should be in, not Lloyd.

Isaac would have way more variety than *swings sword* He'd be more like Robin (half sword attacks, half magic attacks, which would be earth/plant based) again the problem isn't "sword characters" it's "sword characters who literally just swing a sword and have nothing unique" and FE specifically because half of their reps are just the same.

Lloyd well, aside from sword attacks he wouldn't be unique except, he'd of course dual wield swords, which is cool, and have unique attacks, like Metaknights spin and drill attacks, which again is more unique than all of the FE characters except ultcorrin:

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Complaining about the amount of sword users seems very silly, since it's almost like complaining that too many characters are wearing boots.

 

[SmashBro99]

Complaining about the amount of sword users seems very silly, since it's almost like complaining that too many characters are wearing boots.

Some people like variety though.

 

[Uffe]

Funny how people don't want Fire Emblem characters to use swords, yet they want Zelda characters to use swords.

Wrong. If FE characters used axes, lances, staves, or something different, then maybe all the hate revolving around them would be far more minimal. I was fine with Ike, because he played different from Marth in Brawl. I'm fine with Robin, because he also uses his tome. The Zelda series should only have one Link, and that Link should be based off of the current incarnation. I'm glad Zelda has no sword, and I think the only people who want Ganondorf to have a sword are the people who saw the SpaceWorld 2000 version of Ganondorf. He has a sword in Twilight Princess, but even then, I'm glad they just stuck the swords on his smash attacks only. Slowly but surely, Ganondorf is becoming less like his Falcon counterpart.

 

[Oddball]

The Zelda series should only have one Link, and that Link should be based off of the current incarnation.

I'm fine with two Links, as the series has always bounced back and forth between young and older with neither really being more iconic than the other by much.

Three Links is a bit too much though.

 

[Quillion]

I'm fine with two Links, as the series has always bounced back and forth between young and older with neither really being more iconic than the other by much.

Three Links is a bit too much though.

I keep saying this, but I want a fourth Link. One who has the Smash 4 model, moveset and animations and not ones based on BotW.

Sorry, I just miss the old Link a bit too much.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Like others have said, it's not swords, it's FE. There is inherently nothing wrong with using a sword, swords are cool and there are a ton of different kinds of them all with their own way to be used, so when FE rolls up with 4 copies of the same character, one generic sword moveset and two more unique movesets still based around swords, people are gonna have words about it.
If Isaac got in an was a proper Earthbender who just happened to use a sword, no one would complain.

People are gonna complain regardless. Just like how many players clamor for their favorite character to get in but end up maiming someone else.

I don’t think it’s fair for people to get on clones or talk **** because you have people who love Melee Falco, who has the exact same move set as Fox, but the attributes of his hitboxes have changed him into an entirely different character. Most clones or Echo Fighters go this route I feel (and if they don’t they should), and looking beyond the surface of these characters I feel like what matters. That’s why I’m not tripping. Part of the fun of smash is just trying everyone.

I wouldn’t mind some more fire emblem characters with swords as long as they had some unique movesets. Ike has the two-handed sword on lock, maybe an assassin or something. Would honestly just love Ephraim, Hector, Lyn, or Elliwood. Still confused by how Lucina got in over Lyn but it’s whatever lol

 

[Quillion]

Still confused by how Lucina got in over Lyn but it’s whatever lol

At least Lucina is explicitly a descendant of Marth and can get his moveset with no issue.

Lyn would require a different moveset altogether because they're from separate universes (says someone who likes Ganondorf's moveset without his sword lol), but it would be hard to make it unique without stepping on Marth's niche. Probably not a good idea to have two semi-light, combo-oriented sword wielders (EDIT) that aren't Echoes.

Now that I think about it, maybe Lyn could be more like Meta Knight: even lighter and a bigger combo monster.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

At least Lucina is explicitly a descendant of Marth and can get his moveset with no issue.

Lyn would require a different moveset altogether because they're from separate universes (says someone who likes Ganondorf's moveset without his sword lol), but it would be hard to make it unique without stepping on Marth's niche. Probably not a good idea to have two semi-light, combo-oriented sword wielders (EDIT) that aren't Echoes.

Now that I think about it, maybe Lyn could be more like Meta Knight: even lighter and a bigger combo monster.

That’s all I ever wanted. I want a combo monster female swordsman. Like Brawl and Melee Marth on crack.

 

[Jakisthe]

It wouldn't be hard at all to make a unique Lyn. She can teleport and create clones - that's immediately completely different from any of the existing characters.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'd like to see Masked Man and Galacta Knight in Smash but they don't just use their swords, they use PSI, arm cannons, lasers, tornadoes, etc.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I'd like to see Masked Man and Galacta Knight in Smash but they don't just use their swords, they use PSI, arm cannons, lasers, tornadoes, etc.

What is a knight without his sword?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

What is a knight without his sword?

They wouldn't just use their swords. Of course they would use them in jab/tilts, but their specials and aerials could be more unique.

 

[Quillion]

What is a knight without his sword?

They wouldn't just use their swords. Of course they would use them in jab/tilts, but their specials and aerials could be more unique.

Hey, if it's totally okay for Ganondorf to not use his sword, neither of those characters don't need to either.

 

[SmashBro99]

I keep saying this, but I want a fourth Link. One who has the Smash 4 model, moveset and animations and not ones based on BotW.

Sorry, I just miss the old Link a bit too much.

I thought Link was fine as is, I don't like that they just put BotW clothes on him and adjusted a few specials, just make BotW Link a newcomer with actual items from his game, same goes all of the Links.

At least Metroid fans got two unique Samus options.

 

[Quillion]

I thought Link was fine as is, I don't like that they just put BotW clothes on him and adjusted a few specials, just make BotW Link a newcomer with actual items from his game, same goes all of the Links.

At least Metroid fans got two unique Samus options.

To be fair, the only item that old Link had that BotW Link doesn't is the hookshot. The latter still has the sword, shield, bombs, boomerang, and bow covered. What else could BotW Link bring to the table?

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Funny how people don't want Fire Emblem characters to use swords, yet they want Zelda characters to use swords.

Because every Fire Emblem character is using swords while for the Zelda series, only the Links use swords. Ganondorf didn't use his swords until Ultimate for a Smash attack.

 

[SmashBro99]

To be fair, the only item that old Link had that BotW Link doesn't is the hookshot. The latter still has the sword, shield, bombs, boomerang, and bow covered. What else could BotW Link bring to the table?

I haven't played very much of it, I assumed a newer game would bring new weapons or powers?

Talking of the Links, why couldn't Toon Link just switch between Deku/Goron/Zora with the masks? Would have been cool to represent the more notable species from the game's world. Could work just like Pokemon Trainer, aw well another missed oppritunity and hell I want to play a goron lol

Does Sakurai not like the Zelda games or is he really paranoid that people would not like change? Ganondorf is boned until we get that reboot without Sakurai...can't wait to get someone new on this great series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ironically, two of my most wanted characters are sword fighters. But distinctively different from all the other sword fighters in Smash because of the rest of their abilities. Isaac has his Psynergy, which is a mixture of psychic powers and elementary "magic" (Isaac focussed on Earth but realistically in Smash's creative liberty he can use all 4 elements) and Impa's mixture of atletics and acrobatism with such a giant blade is nothing any other Smash character does. Also, Chrom is so far the ONLY sword fighting newcomer yet... So I don't see what is the problem here.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Also, Chrom is so far the ONLY sword fighting newcomer yet... So I don't see what is the problem here.

It's because of one of the five games that introduced slightly less than half of the sword fighters currently set to be in Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler: Sword Fighters in each Game.

Spoiler: Smash 64

New Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Melee

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Brawl

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash 4

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate (as of 9/25/18)

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

These are only including fighters that actively use their swords as part of a good chuck of their move set. Fighters that only use swords in a few of their moves such as , , , and are not being counted.

Can you tell which game so obviously created the problem? Spoiler alert, Smash Ultimate is not the culprit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's because of one of the five games that introduced slightly less than half of the sword fighters currently set to be in Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler: Sword Fighters in each Game.

Spoiler: Smash 64

New Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Melee

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Brawl

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash 4

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate (as of 9/25/18)

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters - ultcorrin:

These are only including fighters that actively use their swords as part of a good chuck of their move set. Fighters that only use swords in a few of their moves such as , , , and are not being counted.

Can you tell which game so obviously created the problem? Spoiler alert, Smash Ultimate is not the culprit.

Yes I know. Yet what harm really lies with introducing straight up Echoes as Dark Pit, Lucina and Chrom? I can agree easily that having both Robin and Corrin as newcomer was not a great idea, but I am in fact happy that Roy made it back, as did many others. I also wouldn't "really" count Pit as a pure sword fighter either, and Cloud and Shulk add whole different sword fighting styles to the roster again. Mii Fighters in general shouldn't ever been made, but considering all this... I still don't really think it's overkill.

Besides, I still really want Impa and Isaac.

 

[Uffe]

I'm fine with two Links, as the series has always bounced back and forth between young and older with neither really being more iconic than the other by much.

Three Links is a bit too much though.

I guess two Link's could be fine. Don't be surprised if the next installment only gives us one, though. It's too early, but people keep speculating it'll be a reboot.

 

[AsterikDatBoi]

It's because of one of the five games that introduced slightly less than half of the sword fighters currently set to be in Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler: Sword Fighters in each Game.

Spoiler: Smash 64

New Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Melee

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Brawl

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash 4

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters -

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate (as of 9/25/18)

New Fighters -
Returning Fighters - ultcorrin:

These are only including fighters that actively use their swords as part of a good chuck of their move set. Fighters that only use swords in a few of their moves such as , , , and are not being counted.

Can you tell which game so obviously created the problem? Spoiler alert, Smash Ultimate is not the culprit.

Thanks for the information. Now I will wanted to get Issac and Felix from Golden Sun for sure! I just played Golden Sun since then.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

Swords are fine.

They have swords, they also have bombs, grappling hooks, boomerangs, bows. Cool (I wish between these 3 we had more representation for their individual games, which is a whole other topic)

- Just for smash attacks, has lots of dark looking moves with his feet and fists, cool.

- His swords are water and not his entire moveset, cool.

- His one sword has a bunch of different playstyles, ok cool.

:ultrobin - Sword and magic, very unique.

- Very fast sword attacks, cool I guess?

- Dragon powers? Nice.

- Their swords (PLURAL) are also a bow, neato.

- who cares its a Mii

-

- Oh same **** but not an alt, they threw tiny differences in their exact same moveset to give everyones waifu her own portrait on CSS

- Oh Marth with fire.

- Oh cool he's unique, slower and heavier.

- Oh not this **** again.

The problem isnt "sword wielders" it's Fire Emblem sword wielders that are just rehashed when there are plenty of other methods of combat, some of which aren't even in this game with 70+ characters, but we keep getting this garbage when they could easily be alts, or actually made unique. Go big or go home.

No axe users
No spear users
No bow users
No magic users (Robin is half, at least we have that)
No shapeshifters (Corrin provides some dragon transformations but thats literally nothing compared to some other characters)

Lots of characters in the Fire Emblem games can use more than one weapon, I haven't played the older games but for example, Lyn started as only swords, and then she gets stronger and can use a bow.

So why can't they make a unique moveset for Chrom, who can throw javelins and use an axe in addition to some sword moves?

The problem is not about these characters "taking other characters spots" - that's stupid, because they are made in such a lazy way so that we can have more characters, but most (including me) would prefer 4 unique FE reps, not all these characters that are lame and don't even fight like they should, just to save time.

However, we shouldn't hate on Fire Emblem. Most of their main characters are royalty, and you usually won't see a prince with an axe over some ancient sword, lame and boring but that's how just about every game is.

Bottom line, it's just lazy and the best part of a reboot would be giving them a chance to purge this ****.

This all comes from someone who enjoys Fire Emblem, but cannot stand it's representation in Smash at all.

Except Lucina and Chrom are basically alts. They have minor gameplay differences, with Chrom borrowing other characters' specials. And even despite the minor/somewhat major changes you can still combine them into one slot, and Roy is a semi-clone just like Ganon, Luigi, and Falco. So what is there to complain about, two of the characters you're complaining about are essentially just alts with minor gameplay tweaks, and one is barely a clone.
I'm not saying Fire Emblem isn't the cause of anti-swords in the community, but I honestly don't think it's that bad.

 

[SmashBro99]

Except Lucina and Chrom are basically alts. They have minor gameplay differences, with Chrom borrowing other characters' specials. And even despite the minor/somewhat major changes you can still combine them into one slot, and Roy is a semi-clone just like Ganon, Luigi, and Falco. So what is there to complain about, two of the characters you're complaining about are essentially just alts with minor gameplay tweaks, and one is barely a clone.
I'm not saying Fire Emblem isn't the cause of anti-swords in the community, but I honestly don't think it's that bad.

No offense but is that because you play Lucina?

I agree they should just be alts like Alph and Koopalings tho.

 

[The Animator]

The problem is to many anime pretty boys with swords. Nintendo has a rich history with lots of unique characters to choose from, and each time they add a similar character it diminishes that characters uniqueness and the value they bring to the game. Imagine if Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario Dr. Luigi, Wario, Waluigi and Jumpman were all playable characters and they all shot a fireball, Mario wouldn't seem special anymore. Link, Young Link, Marth and Roy were awesome; But now we have 3 Links, 7 Fire Emblem sword fighters, 2 Pits, Shulk, and Cloud; So it makes sword fighters a lot less special.

It was mostly around the time of smash 4 character reveals that people started complaining about the sword fighters because a lot of people(myself included) were disappointed with the roster additions overall. So every time they revealed another anime boy with a sword it was frustrating. But whatever I got King K. Rool now so I don't care anymore, they can put in as many sword fighters as they want..... it better be Monster Hunter or Nightmare(Soulcalibur).

 

[AsterikDatBoi]

By the way, Is Sheik uses knives counted as swords?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

By the way, Is Sheik uses knives counted as swords?

No, those would be better classified as a type of dagger.
So while we're on the topic...

Pit and Dark Pit are not sword users.
They use magical bows that can split into blades for close-quarters combat.
They are both sharp weaponry with some-what similar use, but not the same instrument.
(It's a pet-peeve of mine)

 

[Narr]

my main problem is that 4 out of the 14 are marth, 3 are link, and one is cloud.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've never understood why this community has such a dis-taste for characters that wield-swords. It just seems ridiculous to me. Why all the hate? What's wrong with characters the have swords as a weapon?

There's a lot of them.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

There's a lot of them.

There’s a lot of characters. go play with the 50 or so that don’t use swords.

Except Lucina and Chrom are basically alts. They have minor gameplay differences, with Chrom borrowing other characters' specials. And even despite the minor/somewhat major changes you can still combine them into one slot, and Roy is a semi-clone just like Ganon, Luigi, and Falco. So what is there to complain about, two of the characters you're complaining about are essentially just alts with minor gameplay tweaks, and one is barely a clone.
I'm not saying Fire Emblem isn't the cause of anti-swords in the community, but I honestly don't think it's that bad.

I’m sorry but that’s incorrect.

While characters like Marth and Lucina have visibly the same move set, the tipper mechanic for Marth and the base knockback for Lucina make them play on entirely different plains.

To Maximize damage and knock back, Marty will often seek opportunities to zone away and hold advantageous positions to get a tipperd hit. When punishing an opponent the Marth may use empty short hops to bait out options in or even linger in the air with aerials to punish dodges or rolls. Minimizing your mobility, maximizing range, and even recognizing when to do nothing is important as a Marth player.

Conversely, playing Lucina favors being an aggressor. You are spending less time trying to bait out an option than you are throwing out options to force a disadvantage on your opponent that can lead to a solid hit, which then leads to a capitalization. While spacing is important, Lucina has the option to commit more to hard punishes, and more incentive since you know a hit will always be effective.

Roy and Marth aren’t even the same anymore. While they do share similar aerials such as Bair, Nair and Uair, Fair functions and spaces entirely different, same with Bair. He’s a fast faller and has insane aerial mobility to compensate for his reversed sword hitbox.

The chief complaint from sword users stems from players being inexperienced and taking the character at face Value.

In Melee, Fox and Falco have the same literal moveset, but the way the hit boxes and knock back function on the move make them polar opposites.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

So while we're on the topic...

Pit and Dark Pit are not sword users.
They use magical bows that can split into blades for close-quarters combat.
They are both sharp weaponry with some-what similar use, but not the same instrument.

They use them as swords extremely often though. I counted all of Pits attacks and counted how many involved active use of the blade function of his bow. I only used any attacks that Pit would be able to preform at an EVO tournament, meaning no custom moves, and no Three Sacred Treasures. There were 27 moves he can use in Smash 4, and exactly 17 of them involve taking his Bow apart and attempting to slash enemies with it in some manner. That's more than half oh his move set.

Given Dark Pit is a near identical clone, and the three or so moves that differ don't change anything I just said, they're both sword users. It's a technicality that when you look at statistics should be overlooked.

 

[Folt]

There’s a lot of characters. go play with the 50 or so that don’t use swords.



I’m sorry but that’s incorrect.

While characters like Marth and Lucina have visibly the same move set, the tipper mechanic for Marth and the base knockback for Lucina make them play on entirely different plains.

To Maximize damage and knock back, Marty will often seek opportunities to zone away and hold advantageous positions to get a tipperd hit. When punishing an opponent the Marth may use empty short hops to bait out options in or even linger in the air with aerials to punish dodges or rolls. Minimizing your mobility, maximizing range, and even recognizing when to do nothing is important as a Marth player.

Conversely, playing Lucina favors being an aggressor. You are spending less time trying to bait out an option than you are throwing out options to force a disadvantage on your opponent that can lead to a solid hit, which then leads to a capitalization. While spacing is important, Lucina has the option to commit more to hard punishes, and more incentive since you know a hit will always be effective.

Roy and Marth aren’t even the same anymore. While they do share similar aerials such as Bair, Nair and Uair, Fair functions and spaces entirely different, same with Bair. He’s a fast faller and has insane aerial mobility to compensate for his reversed sword hitbox.

The chief complaint from sword users stems from players being inexperienced and taking the character at face Value.

In Melee, Fox and Falco have the same literal moveset, but the way the hit boxes and knock back function on the move make them polar opposites.

So... they're essentially justified either way because people still find ways that set them apart, is what I'm taking from this.