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Why do you like smash64 over melee and brawl?

quote

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
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Leavenworth/Kansas City, Kansas
lolwut?

64 is way floatier than Melee.

And I understand why people would like 64 over Melee but putting BRAWL AND BRAWL+ ABOVE IT IS PISSING ME THE FVCK OFF. If you really think Melee is the worse in the series(despite being the fvcking most successful smash game in terms of competitive play and there wouldn't be a competitive community AT ALL for smash if it wasn't for Melee) under a horrible game and a fvcking mod of a horrible game then you never learned how to play the REAL Melee because you don't like difficulty. Point blank. BTW Barlw is more glitch orientated than Melee so STFU about that.
To be fair, I think that brawl does have some unique ups that the other two don't (64 is still the best btw) but I do think that the game teaches to an extreme extent that spacing is vital. In 64 and melee spacing, isn't as important as important because a lot of times, you just need to be able to outwit your opponent once to get a stock. In brawl, you have to outwit your opponent 8-15 times before you can net the stock, so in turn, spacing is in a significantly more important than technical skill in the game.

I completely agreeon the 64 floatyness thing though. Melee fox demonstrates that pretty well.
 

ETWIST51294

Smash Hero
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Brawl+ is easy, 64 and Melee is not. Basically in my mind it's just Brawl with balance, faster gameplay, and comboes. No difficulty added.
To be fair, I think that brawl does have some unique ups that the other two don't (64 is still the best btw) but I do think that the game teaches to an extreme extent that spacing is vital. In 64 and melee spacing, isn't as important as important because a lot of times, you just need to be able to outwit your opponent once to get a stock. In brawl, you have to outwit your opponent 8-15 times before you can net the stock, so in turn, spacing is in a significantly more important than technical skill in the game.
Which results in camping, which isn't a good thing.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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I think he's trying to say Brawl requires the most mental skill, whereas Melee just requires technical skill.
 

ETWIST51294

Smash Hero
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Which is also untrue. I have more techskill than most people in Melee but guess what? I suck because I'm bad at predicting people.

People who say Melee is only about techskill, or 64 is only about comboes, or (I hate to say this) that brawl is only about camping are stereotyping communities.
 

ballin4life

Smash Hero
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disproving determinism
Brawl+ is easy, 64 and Melee is not. Basically in my mind it's just Brawl with balance, faster gameplay, and comboes. No difficulty added.


Which results in camping, which isn't a good thing.
What do you mean by difficulty? If you mean technical difficulty, that's not what I'm looking for in a game.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
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College Park, MD
He doesn's sound n00b to me; obviously he knew that barwl had airdodging and charge smashes, what gave you the idea that he didn't? and WTF @ italics?
My point was that one of his reasons for disliking Melee was that it has airdodging and chargeable smashes. Why then would he claim that Brawl and Brawl+ are better games than Melee if they have the same defects?

Oh, and I like to italicize words occasionally to reassure myself that important statements don't get lost in the muddle of things.

I'm surprised at how many people on here like melee over 64.
I never said I liked Melee over 64. I like both games about equally.

Personally, I own and play all three games, and I like 64 the best for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to:

-simplicity. you can get to know and get good with/against/on every character and stage very easily, and you know every matchup and every nuance and trick of it.
Is that necessarily a good thing? If it's easy to get good at a game, what does that say about its depth and replayability? >_>

-combos. Come on, can you honestly say melee combos are better? At even a very basic level of skill you can pull sick 0-to-deaths and edgeguards.
Again, if the combos are so easy to learn, wouldn't you say it's that much less rewarding? Something being easier doesn't automatically make it better. Your argument leads me to believe that you have a very superficial view on competitive games in general.

-the feel of it. I can't really explain it, but melee, even though I played it before smash 64, has never felt right to me; the hits just don't seem to have the right oomph behind them, and there's too much floatyspacing involved.
Whatever appeals to you.

-online play. It's just roxxorz.

I'll agree with this. Other than the lagging and desynching, Kaillera is pretty amazing.
 

Kilo16

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
17
You sound like the kind of person who has yet to experience competitive smash in any measure.

By the way, Brawl and Brawl+ have an airdodging system and the option to charge smashes.
You are correct in the fact that yes I do not play in tourneys but i am up for playing against ppl online in 64k and what not...but tourneys...no.

and yes i know there are airdodges in braw and brawl+ i was saying that I like the simplicity of the game of ssb64 because it has no air dodge...i was saying that sometimes when im playing ssb64 i wish i could air dodge.

No need to get mean about it.
 

sirkibble2

Smash Rookie
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May 3, 2008
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I'm pretty fond to Melee and Smash 64 equally but I get more joy from Smash 64 simply because there are less characters to master and the fundamentals in Smash 64 seem to translate well to Melee and Brawl pretty well.
 

ballin4life

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disproving determinism
It's not unnecessary. :p So you're saying if WDing and SHFFLing was easier Melee would be better? If so I wholeheartedly disagree.
Ok so why not make it so that your special moves are done with button combos (like in street fighter) instead of the simple b move system? That would take a lot more tech skill.
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
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It's not unnecessary. :p So you're saying if WDing and SHFFLing was easier Melee would be better? If so I wholeheartedly disagree.
By making those things easier and simpler you compromise the freedom and options you have with each one. With wavedashing you can control how far you want to go with the angle and you can do other things such as wavelanding and even ledgehopwaveland. Same for SHFFLing since you can vary the timing of the attack, how early or late you fastfall, etc.

So no, you can't simplify those without hurting the game and therefore are necessary tech skills.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i like melee better overall

but 64 is sometimes more fun to mess around with someone close to ur skill level

every character is viable and unique and fun (sorta)

easy to **** through creative combos or being gay

easy to learn fundamentals

problems of n64:

dum community

control stick sucks d!ck

needs a few more stages

most balanced stage is balanced in that every character can **** in the pit

online play has delay/lag problems

not enough real life n64 smash players, about 1/3 of the n64 players i met were total douches too
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
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i like melee better overall

but 64 is sometimes more fun to mess around with someone close to ur skill level

every character is viable and unique and fun (sorta)

easy to **** through creative combos or being gay

easy to learn fundamentals

problems of n64:

dum community

control stick sucks d!ck

needs a few more stages

most balanced stage is balanced in that every character can **** in the pit

online play has delay/lag problems

not enough real life n64 smash players, about 1/3 of the n64 players i met were total douches too
you forgot no timer in stock matches. This makes it really ****ing stupid having to face kirby players that truly play to win by camping on either side of hyrule.
 

DMoogle

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you forgot no timer in stock matches. This makes it really ****ing stupid having to face kirby players that truly play to win by camping on either side of hyrule.
Just stand in the middle of the stage, not even that far away, and taunt continuously. Makes campy Kirbys approach every time (unfortunately it does not work for campy Links :().
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
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Just stand in the middle of the stage, not even that far away, and taunt continuously. Makes campy Kirbys approach every time (unfortunately it does not work for campy Links :().
The campiest of campy kirby players will not approach if it risks them losing their lead or letting the opponent get the lead any further. Just the fact that one player is forced to attack out of boredom shows how flawed this game is for not having a timer. (Ant-D, please make a gameshark code that puts timer in stock matches).
 

DMoogle

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The campiest of campy kirby players will not approach if it risks them losing their lead or letting the opponent get the lead any further. Just the fact that one player is forced to attack out of boredom shows how flawed this game is for not having a timer. (Ant-D, please make a gameshark code that puts timer in stock matches).
I have never encountered anyone that noticeably campy with Kirby.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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Is that necessarily a good thing? If it's easy to get good at a game, what does that say about its depth and replayability? >_>



Again, if the combos are so easy to learn, wouldn't you say it's that much less rewarding? Something being easier doesn't automatically make it better. Your argument leads me to believe that you have a very superficial view on competitive games in general.
*sniff*... OK, first of all, on a note unrelated to your comments (this one's for you, Etwist), "floatyspacing" was poor word choice on my part. I agree, of course 64 is floatier; a better word to use might have been just spacing, although that doesn't quite cover it either. Melee's a very fast game, and what I tried and failed to say is that while 64 is all about getting the hit, comboing with it, then edgeguarding or whatever if they get off of the stage, melee seems to have more back-and-forth. As an example, let's take the first smash vid that comes up when I youtube "melee"- Shiz vs M2K in a loser's final. M2K gets lasered around a little and then there's some 45% combo; a couple of grabs from the marth and an ineffective edgeguard, they dance around a little, there's a throw, a couple of dairs and a fsmash that kills. In 64, that would have gone more "laser laser grab combo edgeguard death" or something only slightly more protracted. stocks can take a while, but there's still a satisfying aspect of 'I pwnt u" instead of a bunch of damage-dealing on both sides followed by a three-hit 'combo' that everyone oohs and aahs at.

Now, as to the whole "easy to get good at" thing, you know that's bull****. There's always another level of skill to obtain; having knowledge of the matchup does not mean that the matchup becomes boring. It means that you need to focus on the little things; a certain combo, a slightly different approach, a new mindgame, et cetera. It makes the game deeper, not more superficial.

As to your second point, if you're really as pro as you're making yourself out to be (no offense, but you were kind of snarky) you should know that obviously not all combos are easy to learn and unrewarding. I said that even unskilled people could pull sick combos, not that all combos are pullable by unskilled people. There are plenty of combos that are rewarding- I do one almost every time I play, and you see them in every video you watch. And of course facileness =/= goodness- I was merely pointing out that the game's noob-friendliness is a point in it's favor. PLEASE don't respond with a "brawl is easy on noobs too"- I know that, and that's one of brawl's (few) recommending factors.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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i have a 6 minute 45 second matchup with a kirby with yoshi on my youtube...ive played some campy ones. More campy marios than campy kirby's though
 

ChivalRuse

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Melee's a very fast game
So? Why is that a bad thing? Is there something wrong with having to react quickly, with having to be able to make decisions very rapidly and input commands at a high rate of succession and precisely? In your last post, you said that 64 is simpler and that it's easier to get to know every nuance and trick of it. By saying that, you're implying that Melee has a lot more options, and it's important for you to get a read on somebody, to adapt to the player's specific traps and movement, and to change up your game to avoid becoming predictable yourself.

Now, as to the whole "easy to get good at" thing, you know that's bull****. There's always another level of skill to obtain; having knowledge of the matchup does not mean that the matchup becomes boring. It means that you need to focus on the little things; a certain combo, a slightly different approach, a new mindgame, et cetera. It makes the game deeper, not more superficial.
No offense, but to me that translates into you saying that Melee just takes too much work. That it's too complicated and beyond your capabilities of succeeding at, that you have limit yourself to a game where combos and kills are set in stone (because of the lack of DI), where there are so few options and things occur at such a slow speed that you're not forced to be particularly clever or accurate to net your opponent into your foolproof, immutable snare, where movement and spacing rarely has to be changed up because the same stuff works every time, against any playstyle.

Melee's a very fast game, and what I tried and failed to say is that while 64 is all about getting the hit, comboing with it, then edgeguarding or whatever if they get off of the stage, melee seems to have more back-and-forth. As an example, let's take the first smash vid that comes up when I youtube "melee"- Shiz vs M2K in a loser's final. M2K gets lasered around a little and then there's some 45% combo; a couple of grabs from the marth and an ineffective edgeguard, they dance around a little, there's a throw, a couple of dairs and a fsmash that kills. In 64, that would have gone more "laser laser grab combo edgeguard death" or something only slightly more protracted. stocks can take a while, but there's still a satisfying aspect of 'I pwnt u" instead of a bunch of damage-dealing on both sides followed by a three-hit 'combo' that everyone oohs and aahs at.

It's seems to me that you're oversimplifying Melee and 64 a bit. Not all hits in 64 result in a kill or an edgeguard situation. I mean get real. A lot of characters only get small chunks of damage at a time, whereupon the game gets reset into a neutral position and the spacing and mindgames resume. Samus and DK are good examples of this - neither of them combo very well. A lot of their game revolves around getting the opponent up to a critical percent such that they have an opportunity for a KO. Similarly, a lot of characters have projectiles which don't lend themselves significantly well to combos. Projectiles don't exactly fit into your system of "get a hit, combo, edgeguard". Projectiles are a means of accumulating damage in such a fashion as to avoid taking damage yourself, to get the opponent to a point where he is easier to kill while you remain alive.

Moreover, Melee is not all back-and-forth! It is largely about momentum, and it isn't exactly easy to get the momentum to switch in your favor. There are combos in Melee. In the video that you used for your example, Shiz's last two stocks were zero to death combos. The fact that he had options for getting out of the combos made the "pwnage" that much crazier.

As to your second point, if you're really as pro as you're making yourself out to be (no offense, but you were kind of snarky) you should know that obviously not all combos are easy to learn and unrewarding. I said that even unskilled people could pull sick combos, not that all combos are pullable by unskilled people. There are plenty of combos that are rewarding- I do one almost every time I play, and you see them in every video you watch. And of course facileness =/= goodness- I was merely pointing out that the game's noob-friendliness is a point in it's favor. PLEASE don't respond with a "brawl is easy on noobs too"- I know that, and that's one of brawl's (few) recommending factors.
I never said I was a pro. I don't think anything I said should have given you the impression that I was representing myself as one, either.

I have no problem with 64 being noob-friendly. If a beginner can pull of death combos, then good for him. I still think Melee combos are more rewarding because they're much much harder to do, due to DI, wall teching, and less hitstun (which means you have to move fast).

I can completely understand you liking 64 more than Melee. That's fine by me. But it's kind of silly for you to like Brawl more than Melee. Brawl has no combos. Brawl is all camping, all back and forth. There is no hit -> combo -> edgeguard. Instead, it's hit -> get hit -> hit -> get hit ..... -> hit with finisher for KO. Brawl isn't simpler. It's just gayer.
 

ChivalRuse

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Smash DI is only reasonably useful for getting out of attacks that hit you repeatedly like Pikachu's fair or Fox's dair. It can also save you from KO moves if you, like, smash DI into a wall to avoid the full knockback of an usmash or to bounce into the ledge when recovering to stay close to it.

Smash DI ain't getting you out of Pikachu's/Falcon's uair combos or Luigi's wheel of fortune -> ching combo.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
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.though i heard barwl+ is good?
Brawl+ is very good.

Think of Smash64 combos in Brawl where the characters are viable and balanced, along with music, stage, and texture hacks.

Pretty beast.

I miss Smash64.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
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LOL Brawl+ doesn't even combo as much as Melee, it definitely doesn't live up to 64.
Trust me.

6.0 has enough hitstun to almost combo like Melee/Smash64. It's still not exactly identical, but it's a lot better than vBrawl.

No word of a joke, Brawl+ is by far my favourite Smash game.
 
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