Why do people think Zelda's better?

[~ Gheb ~]

I tried both of them for a little while now and I fail to see, why people think, that Zelda is better than Sheik. All, that Zelda has are stupidly overpowered smashes but she can neither camp nor approach...she just lacks basic stuff.

Sheil lacks good finishing moves but in battle I'd prefer her over Zelda any day. Without Sheik, Zeldas power is wasted anyways...

So why is Zelda supposed to be better?

 

[choknater]

On the surface, Zelda's power might seem far more efficient and effective. At least, that's totally how it looked when Brawl was first released.

But I wouldn't downplay Zelda's strengths just yet. She can't camp? Of course she can. Sure, Din's fire is easily avoided but it still forces opponents to approach if they don't have projectiles. At close range, Zelda's neutral jab, dtilt, and smashes all have the speed to get her out of clutch situations. Pretty much all of her moves can be finishers, lol. She's great at putting space between herself and the opponent, or perhaps closing up the space. A solid character overall.

"So why is Zelda supposed to be better?"

Well, I suppose she's not. She can handle quite a few matchups better than Sheik can, though. Sheik can beat Yoshi and DK, but I think Zelda has a much easier time. Zelda DESTROYS some of Sheik's counters, namely IC's and Peach.

 

[neon..?]

i like shiek way more. but i guess they're both good.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

because you can spam high priority high duration attacks at random with zelda and it works against a lot of players lol

sheik doesn't have that option - you have to use her really well to get ANYTHING done.

obviously with both to beat anyone good you have to know what you're doing - but zelda destroys randoms and certain characters.

only thing sheik destroys is ganon but MAN does she destroy him lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda DESTROYS some of Sheik's counters, namely IC's and Peach.

A good peach is a pain in the *** for zelda to beat... in fact, I'd call the matchup about even or maybe even in peach's favour if she can play really smart

only thing sheik destroys is ganon but MAN does she destroy him lol

only ganondorf... you really think so? I've always found shiek amazing against ike, falcon (but so is zelda) and fox as well.

 

[imdavid]

Why do people think Zelda's better? Because she is.

 

[KRDsonic]

Yeah, sheik does destroy falcon pretty badly too...

 

[Blad01]

Yes, because she IS. I just get 2-stocked by a very good zelda online (no lag btw ^^).

 

[Tristan_win]

It would be easier for me to explain if I reverse the question

"Why do people think Sheik is better?"

The reason why Sheik is better then Zelda is because in short Sheik is still developing while Zelda is for the most part done. I guess this could be said about a large some of the other characters who are listed higher then Sheik but the difference is that the amount of goodness Zelda and Sheik already had was for the most part even maybe leaning a bit towards Zelda but since Sheik is still getting better there's a very good chance she will surpass Zelda even with her lighting kicks.

IF you ask me Sheik is already better then Zelda by great lengths but that's just my opinion. (haha, I avoided saying the "P" word)

 

[sniperworm]

Most people think Zelda's better because they're really good at getting hit by all of Zelda's moves.

But on a more serious note, I think Gimpy pretty much hit it on the nose. That and I think that Zelda's ability to get really low percentage kills helps too.

 

[Brinzy]

Not that I'm really taking a stance on this subject, but I think it should be noted:

The only (currently) known grab-release that Zelda gets caught in is Bowser's grab-release to ftilt. The ICs are a given. Sheik is affected by many more characters in terms of chaingrabbing and grab-releases. This isn't to say that Zelda > Sheik, but it's definitely something that gives Zelda an edge that most people don't get. I believe she is currently advantaged against every main grab-release/chaingrabbing character in the game.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Yes, because she IS. I just get 2-stocked by a very good zelda online (no lag btw ^^).

online ALWAYS lags - it is built into the game - there is NO connection that has NO lag.

 

[-Mars-]

Not that I'm really taking a stance on this subject, but I think it should be noted:

The only (currently) known grab-release that Zelda gets caught in is Bowser's grab-release to ftilt. The ICs are a given. Sheik is affected by many more characters in terms of chaingrabbing and grab-releases. This isn't to say that Zelda > Sheik, but it's definitely something that gives Zelda an edge that most people don't get. I believe she is currently advantaged against every main grab-release/chaingrabbing character in the game.

This is a really good point, some characters rely mostly on their chaingrabs for early percentage until they get into kill range(Falco anyone). Another reason why I think Zelda's better(at least right now), is because she totally suts down characters that rely on their air game. Jigglypuff, Luigi, Wario can't even touch a good Zelda. If you don't have a projectile or some means of long-range capabilities, then forget about it. I really believe usmash is one of the best moves in the game. Even though it can be smash di'ed out of, it still knocks them too far away for them to even counterattack. Lightning kicks also can change the momentum of a match just by landing one of them.

 

[Tristan_win]

online ALWAYS lags - it is built into the game - there is NO connection that has NO lag.

Yup which is why online is not very good rating of someone skill, they shouldn't count for anything

(says after he lost to AlphaZealot and G reg online.)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, Tristans point ("Zelda is pretty much done") is actually exactly, what I thought of. Sheik - despite some obvious shortcomings - is still developing. Zelda ... nah, she's just the one to finish off, what Sheik leaves behind for her...

 

[Blad01]

online ALWAYS lags - it is built into the game - there is NO connection that has NO lag.

Maybe a little bit, but you know, i bought the Ethernet adaptor... It's amazing for online use :D

So yeah, there are two people online i can play with without any lag, or almost : JuJuxXx (Zelda) and Gemini (Samus)*.

*He also have the Ethernet adaptor... So that's like it was offline

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It would be easier for me to explain if I reverse the question

"Why do people think Sheik is better?"

The reason why Sheik is better then Zelda is because in short Sheik is still developing while Zelda is for the most part done. I guess this could be said about a large some of the other characters who are listed higher then Sheik but the difference is that the amount of goodness Zelda and Sheik already had was for the most part even maybe leaning a bit towards Zelda but since Sheik is still getting better there's a very good chance she will surpass Zelda even with her lighting kicks.

IF you ask me Sheik is already better then Zelda by great lengths but that's just my opinion. (haha, I avoided saying the "P" word)

well this is biased.... the truth is, more people are developing shiek's metagame.... it's silly to say Zelda is done developing... she's developing much slower, but who's to know when she's done developing.... in fact... that only makes zelda even MORE the better of the two... that she's less developed and still considered better.

But, if we are going to be honest here, the surest way for Zelda OR shiek to move up in the tier list would be for people to start using Zelda/Shiek.... whether they transform midbattle or just ingame counterpick... it's still a big plus.

Ok... now down to brass tacks.... why is Zelda better?
- Resistant to grab based strategies (falco, ness and ICs really hate this.)
- Shuts down air-to-ground games
- if you can't outcamp her, good luck approaching her
- teleportation makes her DANG hard to edgeguard (though not the hardest to edgehog).... though shiek has about the same plus there.
- smashes are very difficult to dodge... no other smashes really have the duration that hers do.
- practically every move is a kill move
- Din's might be dodgeable... but MAN does it pack a kick for what it is.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

So yeah, there are two people online i can play with without any lag,

that is not true in any way - you are experiencing online brawl without slowed at random times frame rate - this does not mean it is not laggy. At its BEST online brawl still experiences about a 1/3 of a second of lag (and thats an EXTREMELY generous estimate) which makes it, unfortunately, a useless edition for competitive players.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

that is not true in any way - you are experiencing online brawl without slowed at random times frame rate - this does not mean it is not laggy. At its BEST online brawl still experiences about a 1/3 of a second of lag (and thats an EXTREMELY generous estimate) which makes it, unfortunately, a useless edition for competitive players.

oh don't be so mean gimpy.... it's still fun and let's you play some people you'd have a hard time playing otherwise... it might be useless to competititive players for competitive purposes... but it's not an undesired addition or anything


but Gimpy's right.... I have a few "lagless connections" but even they have a slight slight amount of lag.

 

[brinboy789]

uh yea gimpyfish IMO sheik and zelda are neutral but just wondering is sheiks chain jacket giltch banned, because if it isnt, it can be REALLY helpful (edgeguarding, FCUS O.o, ect) which could help your sheik ALOT

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i really dont understand how sheik's chain jacket is good for edgeguarding... it would be great for it if this was melee style recoveries but it isn't lol

 

[brinboy789]

i really dont understand how sheik's chain jacket is good for edgeguarding... it would be great for it if this was melee style recoveries but it isn't lol

not sure if this will work but:
first use FCUS
then use chain jacket glitch next to the edge. unless they have like zeldas up+b which makes her disapear and reappear, they will get hit with the FCUS. like foxes illusion. just a thought though

 

[Zankoku]

What's FCUS?

 

[brinboy789]

What's FCUS?

fully charged upsmash. i dont rly go on the sheik board i jus wanna see gimpys reaction to my idea XP

 

[Zankoku]

Charging smashes has no effect on the chain jacket, from what I remember.

 

[brinboy789]

Charging smashes has no effect on the chain jacket, from what I remember.

even if it doesnt, its still a smash. and im pretty sure it does

 

[ADHD]

...........................

 

[Exia 00]

Chain jacket ? o_O *goes to guide*

 

[imdavid]

fcus.... frogs cut up stuff

 

[SinkingHigher]

y'allz can't be just inventin' yerself werds ya hear.

FCUSALL.

I think Zelda and Sheik are special in their own rights. Together, they're a powerhouse. Individually, again, I say Sheik has the upper hand ONLY because of her ridiculous edge-guarding abilities. Then again, Zelda can also kick some off-stage *** too.

I think for now it's somewhat balanced. We need to wait longer and see what happens. People keep trying to just wrap up Brawl and put it in a box before they even "finished" the game.

 

[pradip030384]

No this is not true.I do not think so.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

the only real reason i think is KO potential, although her resistance to combos is a plus too i guess

but Sheik's speed and edgegaurding can be used to deadly effect...I think her performance is more variable then Zelda's

I just prefer Sheik b/c shes fun to play

 

[brinboy789]

gimpyfish? any input on the chain jacket glitch for edgehog trick?>_>

 

[Wildfire393]

Here's what Zelda has over Sheik:
1) One of the strongest projectiles in the game
2) Multiple fairly easy to land attacks that can kill at 100% or lower
3) Range and Disjointedness
4) A Reflector
5) Longer Recovery

And here's what Sheik has over Zelda:
1) One of the most disrupting and hard to dodge projectiles in the game
2) Multiple easy to land attacks that can combo into a Tilt lock that can rack up a huge amount of damage
3) Speed in every aspect
4) Low Crawl
5) More versatile recovery (tether, wall cling)

So really it's a matter of preference.

 

[SinkingHigher]

gimpyfish? any input on the chain jacket glitch for edgehog trick?>_>

Why anyone would use that is beyond me. Sheik was BUILT to edge-guard and you're using her worst move to do it with.

Chain Jacket is USELESS. Give it up.

 

[Oh Snap]

Why do people think Zelda's better? Because she is.

woots!

Well, I think Shiek has a decent ground and aerial game. Fast mvoes, but they lack priority.

Zelda on the other hand, has an excellent ground game. High priority, long lasting, powerful smashes. But her air game completely sucks if the player hasn't mastered landing her kicks. If mastered, that Zelda will have a deadly air game. But the sad part is, most Zelda mainers stay glued to the ground spamming her smashes...

 

[-Mars-]

woots!

Well, I think Shiek has a decent ground and aerial game. Fast mvoes, but they lack priority.

Zelda on the other hand, has an excellent ground game. High priority, long lasting, powerful smashes. But her air game completely sucks if the player hasn't mastered landing her kicks. If mastered, that Zelda will have a deadly air game. But the sad part is, most Zelda mainers stay glued to the ground spamming her smashes...

Sadly this is what most Zelda players are known as, someone who just uses smashes and dins fire. I really don't think thats much of a bad thing though, Wolfs pretty much base thier whole game off of smashes, blaster, and bair and they don't seem to do too bad. To me the lightning kicks are Zelda's trump card, this is what makes her better than Sheik.......they can change the whole outcome of a match.

 

[Blistering Speed]

IF you ask me Sheik is already better then Zelda by great lengths but that's just my opinion. (haha, I avoided saying the "P" word)

This
10maiUsmash>urs

 

[Oh Snap]

Sadly this is what most Zelda players are known as, someone who just uses smashes and dins fire. I really don't think thats much of a bad thing though, Wolfs pretty much base thier whole game off of smashes, blaster, and bair and they don't seem to do too bad. To me the lightning kicks are Zelda's trump card, this is what makes her better than Sheik.......they can change the whole outcome of a match.

But using her tilts makes her so much more good. Zeldas that I've played rarely use dtilt, utilt is a great killing move. Her jab can be useful at times too ^_^

 

[Tristan_win]

well this is biased.... the truth is, more people are developing shiek's metagame.... it's silly to say Zelda is done developing... she's developing much slower, but who's to know when she's done developing.... in fact... that only makes zelda even MORE the better of the two... that she's less developed and still considered better..

The post counter wishes to disagree with you, unless you are saying that the 5,000+ extra post in the Zelda forum has over the Sheik forum is not for the most part aimed to improve her Meta game.

The fact is if there was somewhere to improve then someone in the Zelda community would be already striving toward improving it but because of her limited combo potential and fairly inflexible move set while at the same time only really having "love jumping" and her up B cancel at the edge advance techs to speak of you really have nothing left to work on besides spacing and style.