yeah but the sheik's have gimpyfish on their side so whats zelda gonna do LOL
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Why do people think Zelda's better?
- Thread starter ~ Gheb ~
- Start date
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Meh you're nothing special...
<_<
>_>
<_>
>_< .................dustball.......................
*is flicked away by a giant god hand*
<_<
>_>
<_>
>_< .................dustball.......................
*is flicked away by a giant god hand*
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
sad but true.... such massive topics like the Zelda picture thread exist there.... also... the threads that ARE useful seem to have far more useless posts than the sheik boards take to accomplish the same ends. The truth is... the shiek boards dot he charcter board thing better. The zelda board does not seem to have as many useful posts in it... and not as much focuses on what's important.... now.... at least it isn't hampered down with AT after AT with little concern on the important aspects of the meta-game like the pit boards, but it doesn't have much of either really.
AT's are nice... but they don't necessarily make or break a charcter.... look at MK for example... he doesn't really use ATs
the fact is.... Zelda is better out of the box... so to speak... i.e. even if you've never practiced with either charcter, you could still win with zelda because, after learning a few key moves, you can base your entire playstyle around them. The teir list was a bit of a wake up call to the zelda boards really I think. Zelda mains always knew we had more moves besides just usmash, din's and fsamsh.... but unless your oponent is getting around them, most people never bothered developing the rest of her move-set out much... even at a professional level, Zelda looks pretty flat... which is disapointing really.
I think Zelda mains are finally dicovering that rather than focus on useless things like love-jumping. we should get down to brass tacks and become familiar with every move in her repetoir.
now as for lack of combo potential... that's true... the only combos I often use with her are
d-tilt lock -> Dsmash, Ftilt or Fsmash
Ftilt or dash attack -> Usmash -> nair -> Din's fire
and these aren't innescapable combos.
But, yeah, Zelda is not a combo oriented character, she was never meant to be... that's why she has shiek... but since we aren't talking about Zelda/Shiek right now, just Zelda straight, yeah, you'll need to be familiar with every move so that you can always use the best move in a given situation and build up damage that way.... and we could REALLY benefit from learning how to set up for her finishers better
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
zelda has kill moves.
zelda's only bad against characters than can get in on her, like fox, diddy, and mk. other than that she's twice as good as sheik. more options, more power, huge disjointed multiple hitboxes, more range, more spam, less you can do about it.
zelda's only bad against characters than can get in on her, like fox, diddy, and mk. other than that she's twice as good as sheik. more options, more power, huge disjointed multiple hitboxes, more range, more spam, less you can do about it.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
what's unny... is that you listed 3 characters who actuallly don't have an advantage on zelda... not that there aren't characters who do... those are just the wrong ones.
Meta Knight not having an advantage on Zelda is a silly notion. It's not a heavy counter matchup, but it's not an even one, either.
Listing Diddy as a character Zelda is bad against is lol, though.
Listing Diddy as a character Zelda is bad against is lol, though.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
hmm... looking at this yes... I suppose that's true.... but MK is not one of her worst matchups or even close really. And while he never said those were her WORST matchups I suppose. Fox and diddy aren't anything tougher than even and MetaKnight really is not a bad matchup at all... it's not fun, but it's not bad.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I don't know, it just seems to me Hedgehawg, that Zelda is too inflexible. If you have experience against Zelda's and know to wait just outside of their attack zone, then Zelda can't really do much. The reason people thought Zelda was so good before now was because of her general wtfsmashes and aerials, but we're past that stage now and it's becoming more and more obvious that if you play smart against a Zelda you're going to win. If you don't play rushdown against Zelda and make stupid mistakes, and FORCE her to approach, she's no problem.
Feel free to debate me on this as I dont claim to be as knowledgeable about Zelda as you, but from my own experience against Zelda players that's what I've seen.
Feel free to debate me on this as I dont claim to be as knowledgeable about Zelda as you, but from my own experience against Zelda players that's what I've seen.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
a lot of zelda players are idiots... I'm not suggesting that the ones that you play are, but a lot of Zelda users seem to think that they should just din's fire camp and wait for the enemy to come to them because of her great range and how hard she is to get inside...
Well, the truth is: Zelda is best if played more agressively. the range of her smashes is easy enough to find a way around if she's just sitting there taking it, but if she is actively assaulting you, spacing herself well, then you have a LOT of trouble with her because most people just don't have a response for that range unless THEY are in control of the spacing.
Playing aggressively with Zelda gives a novelty effect but isn't very good in the long run - everything you can do can be beaten by the strategy of "camp and either shield or roll away if she approaches." Zelda simply doesn't have the speed or maneuverability to play aggressively against patient people who are aware of Zelda's range and power.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
So played smartly against, Zelda gets beaten when playing defensively and offensively?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
<_< you are aware that all of the good zeldas play at least somewhat agressively. it's only the n00bs who camp with her.
"Somewhat?" All you said was
As far as I've seen, playing actively aggressively doesn't work in this game. Well, not anywhere that matters, anyway.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
^ More aggressively than most Zelda's I assume he meant, which means more aggressively than a non-moving cement wall that spews flames...
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
the point I'm trying to make is that Zelda is not about waiting for the foe to come to her. she can be, but that's not often the best option.
No, what Zelda is all about is spacing: Spacing for her precision based aerials, spacing created by nayru's love and Dsmash, spacing at which her smashes will outrange most of the attacks by opponents.... spacing.
you know, it's hard to create that kind of spacing if you sit still. Zelda needs to move, to follow her foes, chase them down even, but to always be mindful of spacing.
No, what Zelda is all about is spacing: Spacing for her precision based aerials, spacing created by nayru's love and Dsmash, spacing at which her smashes will outrange most of the attacks by opponents.... spacing.
you know, it's hard to create that kind of spacing if you sit still. Zelda needs to move, to follow her foes, chase them down even, but to always be mindful of spacing.
DarkMusician probably has one of the most aggressive styles i've seen since Brawl came out, and he certainly has no problems.
I'm still amazed by how people see Zelda even now. She is not slow, granted she doesn't have blazing speed but with dsmash, dtilt, naryus, and nair auto canceling you can actually be fairly quick with her. All of her smashes come out pretty quick and the lag isn't too bad. I think most of the Sheik mains don't realize how good Zelda can be. They get frustrated using her because they only switch for the kill. Your opponent knows your going for the kill so they play defensive while you sit there using smashes. I really think as Zelda you need to pressure your opponent at all times.
Something we're currently discussing on the Zelda boards is how useful empty short hopping can be. If your approaching through the air, your opponent is going to be thinking lightning kick and this can lead to some nice grab setups or shield poking. This can actually be used as a sort of approach, knowing how limited her approach options are.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Yes.
I don't want to come off as offensive, but, honestly, the reason that a lot of sheik mains say zelda isn't good is because they can't play her well. Zelda's gonna suck unless you put some work into her. you may say "zelda needs to play defensively to do best" but that's only because that's the way that's working best for you because it's the easiest to get down and you don't really understand her offensive game. it's there. trust me, it is.
It frustrates us zelda mains to no end to see sheik users calling themselves "Zelda/Sheik" users who are, essentially, good sheiks who switch to zelda, lose all their momentum by spamming Fsmash and Usmash and praying that their foe will be dumb enough to walk into it. A applaud you guys for deciding to branch out into the dual maining category, but if you truly want to be a frightening force, you gotta put work into zelda beyond just trying to KO with her... you have to know her inside and out and just play with her. it's okay to bring her out for a KO... but you have to know how to play as her once she's out so that she can hold her own until a KO opportunity presents itself.
You Zelda and Sheik users should not be fighting amongst yourselves. You should be using more down b. If I had the power to switch to Rosalina during my matches for kills, life would be so different ^_^
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I want Melee's Down B back.
Anyway, once I get the free time, I'll definitely start soloing things with Sheik, because my Zelda is already at a good level for me.
Anyway, once I get the free time, I'll definitely start soloing things with Sheik, because my Zelda is already at a good level for me.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
My Zelda has been called good and scary be a good number of people now and I still think she sucks. I know of her offensive options and I know of her defensive options very well. I've also play her a good amount in singles just so I can keep my skills fresh with her but it doesn't change the fact that she is limited and when compared to sheik simplistic.
What I think Zelda mains seem to not realize though is that for a Sheik/Zelda combo to work that the player will for the most part play 80% sheik 20% Zelda. Because of this we don't get a lot of Zelda vs X experience and since Sheik and Zelda are used so differently we are almost walking into the match up blind until many hours of play. Because of this a lot of us start to play mainly defensively if allowed because we know that's where Zelda plays her best.
A good Sheik/Zelda player I think for the most part will almost always have their Sheik better then their Zelda's unless they put extended practice into Zelda.
Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBcoT2SpJgY&fmt=18
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtcff0Xmni4&fmt=18
Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-2JssmAzg&fmt=18
Watch these three videos and then tell me if you think Zelda's "simplistic". You can play an aggressive style with Zelda and it can be effective.
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtcff0Xmni4&fmt=18
Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg-2JssmAzg&fmt=18
Watch these three videos and then tell me if you think Zelda's "simplistic". You can play an aggressive style with Zelda and it can be effective.
That seems to prove the point that Zelda is relatively simple rather than disprove it... then again, I might've been expecting not-Brawl when watching Brawl. I dunno.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Zelda is simplistic and no you really can't. You can try but if your opponent is defensive, has a good range attack and has some speed(in other words more then half the cast) too them you will struggle greatly trying to play a aggressive style with Zelda
Rykoshet has a aggressive Ike(a good one at that, in fact he's one of the few Ike players I've ever faced that can actually beat me a fairly good amount of the time which is saying A LOT!), Ike has no range attack, and is about even in speed with Zelda.
Both players are indeed good and can play aggressively well large part to their skill levels but the thing is we are watching a Ike and a Zelda fight. If both played defensively the match wouldn't be anywhere as near as flashy, fun to play, and of course to watch.
...Last round with very pretty though props to ninjalink for the two
choknater
Smash Obsessed
sheik is simplistic too *shrug*
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Agreed, why does simplistic have a negative connotation?
because its boring and stale after 3 matches lol
-Zure-
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2008
- Messages
- 54
Quoted for truth.
You thought that b-reversal to a spike in the third vid was boring?
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I meant in terms of effectiveness ;p