"Why didn't I think of that?" Share a tip!

[Supermodel From Paris]

So lots of little nuances to ZSS and I'm sure you guys all have little tricks and things that you've thought of, and wonder if other people do it. Here's mine:

If you dsmash , it comes out on frame 20 (or at least I think it's 20, we'll say 20). If you charge the move, the 20 frames are used to charge and the move comes out on frame 21.

So, next time you land a dsmash and go to do a second one, charge it. It's only an extra point or three of damage but every little bit helps and it's guaranteed, so why not?

EDIT: Being told that it isn't true that the 20 frames are used to charge it, it's just a few frames after the start-up. Oh well, this still works.

Share yours!

 

[Ochobobo]

Good thinkin

 

[#HBC | J]

cool idea SFP but does this really need its own thread? =/

ZSS general discussion wouldve been a better place for this.

anyways on a positive note ill try it out more =P

 

[Ochobobo]

cool idea SFP but does this really need its own thread? =/

Cause it's so awesome it deserved its own thread of course. Racking up damage is a brilliant way to get closer to winning, it's like its own AT. People should remember this.

 

[#HBC | J]

alright then ;D

i was just wondering :3

 

[solecalibur]

ZSS general discussion wouldve been a better place for this.

Spoiler

To many threads need organized manner of telling this

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Does it really matter where I posted it?

 

[NickRiddle]

Does it really matter where I posted it?

Of course it does!
That is the most important part of this entire thread!




I really don't know why I never thought of slightly charging the second one. Oh well.

 

[solecalibur]

Things are just more organized , some of these are smart messages but are for general discussion seems more appropriate >.>, i mean its basicly dead there and the point of general seems to be talking about our meta game while the guide is if we find it useful

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I really don't know why I never thought of slightly charging the second one. Oh well.

This is the theme of this thread. Maybe I should change the title.

 

[NickRiddle]

This is the theme of this thread. Maybe I should change the title.

Love it, actually.


Tip:
For anybody having trouble hitting Falco out of his phantasm, we can do it with jab. It requires much less timing, since it's out on frame 1. As soon as you think you will get hit, throw it out. If you do it right, the worst that happens is the jab ties, and neither of you take damage. (Falco still has his lag, and you are back in a neutral position."

 

[ph00tbag]

You don't even need to time it.

Just hold a. The chances of you getting hit by phantasm are miniscule, if there's a chance of it at all. I've never been hit out of holding A in that situation.

It doesn't work as well against Fox, though.

 

[Nefarious B]

If you like to approach with bair a lot (like me) then a good mixup is to do a b reversal instead, which throws you back away from your opponent while shooting a nB at them. In my experience this is very rarely punished if you space it well and only do it like twice per game. It's rarely PSed in my experience where as my standing nB almost always is by people around here.

I generally save this for when I really want a dash lock or a grab.

The controller input is:

you're in the air facing left, moving right

press b, then quickly tap right

 

[Deathfox30]

You mean Special Momentum Shifting? :3 I thought I was the only person who actually used that with ZSS. Dx I love doing it of a dash, half the time they drop their shield while I'm charging it and it hits them. :3 Correct me if I'm wrong SFP, but you made this thread to share tips and tricks about ZSS, right? Not just to say that one thing..... kind of like the Peach board has. If so I don't see why everyones complaining. :S

 

[solecalibur]

platform cancel more!

10reasonstothankfortopictitle

 

[NickRiddle]

You don't even need to time it.

Just hold a. The chances of you getting hit by phantasm are miniscule, if there's a chance of it at all. I've never been hit out of holding A in that situation.

It doesn't work as well against Fox, though.

Timing it makes it easier to hit Falco out of it.

You mean Special Momentum Shifting? :3 I thought I was the only person who actually used that with ZSS. Dx I love doing it of a dash, half the time they drop their shield while I'm charging it and it hits them. :3 Correct me if I'm wrong SFP, but you made this thread to share tips and tricks about ZSS, right? Not just to say that one thing..... kind of like the Peach board has. If so I don't see why everyones complaining. :S

The title thrad was changed after I posted.

platform cancel more!

10reasonstothankfortopictitle

Platform cancelling is AMAZING!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I made this thread to share one thing. Then, I changed my mind.

 

[ThreeSided]

On stages like BF or Yoshi's, while holding onto the edge, you can get yourself a lot more recovery space/reverse edge guarding/even get a KO if they're at high enough percent by dropping down > Second Jump > wall jump > Bair. Most ZSS's don't do this for some reason, so most people don't expect it. It's also good for when they're too far to hit with a rising Uair.

 

[Zero]

Platform cancelling is AMAZING. Lylat could be our best starter!

 

[NickRiddle]

I cannot platform cancel on Lylat.
Stupid tilting stage, I never know when it's moving. -.-

 

[Zero]

You mean Special Momentum Shifting? :3 I thought I was the only person who actually used that with ZSS. Dx I love doing it of a dash, half the time they drop their shield while I'm charging it and it hits them. :3

You mean a wavebounce, right?

lol nick, I've never really noticed Lylat not tilting, I don't know if I've had a cancel fail on me.

 

[Deathfox30]

Well, I always Dash > RAR > B Reversal. Thats SMS, right? IDK, been forever since I used TL or Lucas... Threesided, you can do it on a lot of stages, I think it's called an instant wall jump or something. I don't see very many ZSS players do it though, or that weird thing on Delfino.

 

[Nefarious B]

I don't really like the wall jumped Bair because it's relatively easy to see coming, and if you get hit out of it you're basically dead.

If you jump off the ledge, b reversal, you're now above the stage facing backwards with a jump, IMO if you had time to do the wall jump you'd have time to do this and it's a much better position overall

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I can't plat cancel on Lylat either. I can do it pretty consistently on Smashville though.

 

[ThreeSided]

It's honestly more of a mixup than anything. A lesser known shenanigan. It's good for when your opponent become predictable in a way that they don't think matters, because they don't realize you have that option.

 

[Deathfox30]

I like Instant Wall Jump > Buffered B Reversal/Buffered Plasma Whip or Instant Wall Jump > Wavebounced Plasma Whip. I've found it very useful and unexpected to drop the egde, then jump and Plasma Wire and Wall Jump. If they jump before it hits and they tech roll towards the edge you can hit with a Uair and still Tether the edge. Thats very, very unlikely though. You can use Down Special too. Even Wall Jump then Down Special. You could fast fall an Nair and follow up with just about anything. If you jump behind them and get the right trajectory you can do Nair > Up B > D Smash then w/e.

 

[Zero]

Walljump > anything is never safe if the opponent is paying attention.

Walljump > dB is probably the most safe defensive recovery option, since you get invincibility frames and a flipstool.

Walljump > B reversal > dB is probably a true combo, but too risky since you would probably need to buffer the dB straight after the nB, which takes away any opportunity to hitconfirm.

 

[ph00tbag]

Instant wall jumps are definitely preferable to wall jumps any day.

Save the jump, mang.

 

[Deathfox30]

Is it known that on BF and SV (possibly other too) you can drop down and do a plasma jump and it will act like you've used 3 tethers and you go about 3 character lenghts onto the stage and can use any aerial? I also found you can hit them through the stage with Plasma Whip. For some reason, Plasma Wire won't go through the stage or tether the edge if you do a Plasma Jump in a certain spot. It's also possible to go through the bottom of Smashville and land on the stage with a Down B. You need to find the spot where it cancels and then DI right and Down B immediately. I didn't want to make a new thread since I'm sure this is known but I don't see it used. You can even do a Nair out of it into D smash. I think you might be able to do Nair > DAL too and probably some cool things with B reversals and wavebouncing. I failed to recreate this, but somehow if you do a rising Plasma Whip, you float a little above the stage for a second and can do any aerial, and you get your second jump. This was on Battlefield. If you start it low enough, can D Smash out of it too. I can't mess around with it much (only for about 5 minutes) since it's almost 9 AM and I haven't been to sleep yet. So yeah.....night

 

[Zero]

You can use Stamina Mode to practice your chaingrabs and dsmash locks much easier than in VS mode or training mode.

I just worked this out just then :O

 

[solecalibur]

In stamina mode are they basicly always at 0% pushback when you hit them?

 

[Zero]

yeah, so you can make a super long stage in Stage Builder just to practice your fthrow buffering and dsmash timing.

 

[Sovereign]

On stages that favor sharking(Halberd and Delfino are the main two, from experience), you should Dair the sucker that thinks ZSS is fishbait for such a primitive tactic.

 

[Z1GMA]

Nothing new, just wanna remind ppl of how awesome it is to:
(Opponent at 100+%, about center of the stage)

Dsmash > Dsmash > Run behind + Bair in the opposite direction.
It's pretty funny how they sometimes DI themselves to death, heh.

Pretty much all top-ZSS's use this every now and then,
but more ZSS's should seriously use it.

 

[solecalibur]

On stages that favor sharking(Halberd and Delfino are the main two, from experience), you should Dair the sucker that thinks ZSS is fishbait for such a primitive tactic.

i like to dsmash spam when they are far away then roll AWAY from them so they shark where I just rolled to then dsmash =3

 

[Dakpo]

B reversing after you footstool them out of down B catches most off guard

 

[B.A.M.]

On Rainbow Cruise, when the stage is shifting right MK grab releases like wario. Well provided you grab when hes on your left.

Discuss.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Old .

 

[Zero]

B reversing after you footstool them out of down B catches most off guard

Dairing after a flipstool catches all off guard. It's absolutely amazing.

 

[Z1GMA]

I dunno if you guys are using this at times, but when rolling backwards from the opponent,
it's pretty coo' to turn around the split second before the roll, thus causing you to *forward-roll* away from your opponent.

Much faster + rolls longer (Yeah, well you know the difference between backroll/forwardroll), and it should only take you around 2 frames to turn around.

Need to roll backwards? - Turn around first.