• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Why Brawl's Roster Sucks: An Ultimatum

Status
Not open for further replies.

jwj442

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
212
Yes, there are some clones. But even counting Lucas, Wolf, and Toon Link as clones (and Wolf might not be), we have 12 new characters with distinct movesets (and that's without ZSS and the PT counted separately). THat seems quite good to me.
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
4,965
Location
San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
My two cents on this topic:
it seems that the two biggest reasons people seem to hate the brawl roster is that they hyped themselves up for something (like the mobs of Geno fans and Ridley fans, etc) or they saw to much too soon.

The first one has been touched on plenty, but I find the second one more compelling. I showed my friend the roster list. he had no prior knowledge of many of the characters, outside of Sonic and Snake. He was very excited because of all his favorites that returned and the new characters we are getting. He didn't know about characters like Olimar or Lucario or Ness's return, etc.
 

edde

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Caracas, Venezuela
NNID
edmichu
if it is whateverly impossible to be unhappy with the roster, why 99% of people are? i am... its just too lacking, i even suspect clones are back, and as ive seen, marth has been included (yet nerfed), this should make me happy, but it just doesnt much, guess ill try to stick to brawl's new top tiers rather than my old characters

its sakurai's fault to make so m,uch hype and say unbelievably big roster size in some of his sentences... is 35 is unbelievably huge, we shouldnt be expecting next smash to have 50 characters, but rather 40... honestly, brawl looks like a great game, but it is a huge letdown that sakurai made us foresee brawl as a way better thing than what it really is... its very very good, yet not as good as he has been hyping the game up... huge letdown -

besides, why would he worry so much to kill competitive smashers... less character varieties (less fight styles), clones back (maybe, ganon has no sword and falco shares fox's same fs), wavedash, l cancell, every single advanced (glicth to some of you) techniques that defined that ones that just wanted to improve gameplay or the arrogant ones who think they are smash gods for unlocking all meele chars and stages... also... no online competitive play, bigger letdown even than the horrible roster...

i would have ranked a month ago brawl as maybe the best game ever to be made, now, i just dont know what to expect
 

Marie_54

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
502
Location
Puerto Rico
I think this all funny.

Why the hell are some people claiming to seriously love/hate the roster if the game hasn't
even come out yet? :dizzy:

I understand those who had their favorite characters confirmed or don't care about the roster but those who hate it because of ROB or some other character like let's say the controversial Sonic, are hopeless... ROB sure sounds useless but COME ON its just one crappy character. -_- and he might not be as bad a PC ... and those who support chars like Geno and Ridley, are angry because they haven't been confirmed and claim they won't appear- lets just say that patience is a virtue and if they didn't make it, its not the end of the world.
(I must admit i would get angry if they didn't make it since they've had a whole lot of development time but brawl would still be awesome.)

The author of this thread is right "Brawl's roster sucks because you think it sucks." But i think it is impossible for everyone to be 100% happy with the game, games aren't perfect not even brawl. *Gasps and shots heard* and we should all wait to play the game or altleast hear from it from Japan before making a final judgement.
 

Lantz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
96
Location
C-Span
At least they have R.O.B over Geno.

And I don't think Brawl's roster sucks, hell, my five most wanted characters didn't make it. You know what I did? Decided to suck it up like a man and plan to enjoy the game anyway.
 

bballstar23

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
914
Location
Chicago
Switch FC
SW-2383-6686-1312
I have nothing against the rest of the game, and enjoy it, but I still have a right to question some of their character decisions and choices. I don't know, I just find it sort of ironic that all three "shoe-ins" didn't make it in as characters. I think we really were hyping them all up, and it seems like we were all just plain wrong. I still know though, that I'll enjoy the roster even if it does not live up to my expectations, just as I did with Melee. Plain and simple, I'll just ignore the characters I don't like and play with all the new characters that seem interesting. I just find it strange that nearly all the unlockable characters are clones.

My two cents on this topic:
it seems that the two biggest reasons people seem to hate the brawl roster is that they hyped themselves up for something (like the mobs of Geno fans and Ridley fans, etc) or they saw to much too soon.

The first one has been touched on plenty, but I find the second one more compelling. I showed my friend the roster list. he had no prior knowledge of many of the characters, outside of Sonic and Snake. He was very excited because of all his favorites that returned and the new characters we are getting. He didn't know about characters like Olimar or Lucario or Ness's return, etc.

The same thing happened with my friend, though he was still a bit disappointed about some characters.
 

SJAK47

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
448
Location
NJ
Brawl's roster sucks because you think it sucks.

You have brought this upon yourself, with your irrational hype, deeply unrealistic expectations, and revolting sense of entitlement. Your total ignorance of the game design process is matched only by your absolute lack of respect for the people involved. The self-sacrifice of those individuals, in particular Masahiro Sarukai, continues to be completely ignored in favor of asinine "demands" for arbitrary characters to be put in the game. The self-imposed misery you wallow in is not ironic, but just: it is the immediate result of your hypocrisy.

Masahiro Sakurai is in contention for greatest game designer of all time, and the staff assisting him with this game is incredibly talented and dedicated. Their passion for this game will never be known or fully understood by you. As long as you continue to cling to the childish and egotistical illusion that you could somehow make a Super Smash Bros. game better than those who have defined--and then redefined--what that is to begin with, you will lack the respect that is required to appreciate the game.

Nothing I say will cause these bitter bystanders to change their flawed perspective. The purpose of this is to simple explain to them why they are unhappy, so that they may not be confused when their own anger and sadness contrasts with the emotions of those who are about to play this game for several upcoming years, thousands of hours each. I myself will play with unaltered bliss.

So may you all.
Very well said. I can't believe that some people actually got angry over the roster and the potential gameplay. Of course it took many years to plan, develop and finish making Brawl, and now that it's complete, it will be an awesome, awesome game. But people expect so much, expect all their wildest dreams of every character and ideas in Brawl that once they have been de-confirmed, they go berserk. That's just nonsense.

This is total self-destruction on those who over-hyped the game. As much as I check spoilers and watch Brawl clips each week, I never expected to get what I wanted. I knew that I wasn't the one making the game so I can't do a thing to voice my opinion. Brawl is Sakurai's masterpiece. Have any of you seen the clip with Marth in it? Look at how detailed the background is and how fluid his movements are. His attacks are the same but look different and has a nice, crisp feel to it.

I digress but guys, please do yourself a favor and kind of adjust to what Sakurai made. He made it for you, and for you to bombard him with harsh words and criticisms because he didn't include what you want is just not right. It's unfair. As a fan, be loyal even if there are missing pieces to an ideal project.
 

Matt Silver

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
477
Location
In a world where there is no Sakurai. Only Link...
Unrealistic? We applyed logic to characters we knew/thought were popular to be in Brawl. The roster sucks because of how it was hyped. Sakurai shouldn't have showed us so many newcomers on the DOJO before the game came out, so we'd do more speculating.

Btw, this roster is 100% confirmed yet, so I'm not packing it in.
 

Voyager

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
226
I wanted Claus and Geno in. They didnt get in. That's too bad. You know what that means? The game isn't perfect. Boo hoo.

Maybe I should main ROB just to piss of all the people who wont quit crying just because whatever character they personally happened to like didnt make the cut.
 

Brawler Lime

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
53
Location
Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)
is 35 is unbelievably huge, we shouldnt be expecting next smash to have 50 characters, but rather 40
why would you think only five more characters in the next game? and clones, melee had way more clones than brawl, but it was still fantastic, so why wont brawl be too?
anyway, there are non clone characters too, so why cant we enjoy it for what it is, huh?

i would have ranked a month ago brawl as maybe the best game ever to be made, now, i just dont know what to expect
expect super smash bros, with all new characters, stages, modes and more awesomeness than ever before!
 

Fawriel

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
4,245
Location
oblivion~
You people are seriously starting to piss me off.

Let me try to clear up some misunderstandings.

Geez, whats with all the ROB hate.

To be frank, 35 is a perfect number. Sure, more is better, but Sakurai has added a lot of characters, a lot many people have wanted. There has been many people asking for WW Link. I despise the idea, but like every character, someone dislikes it. Now we have Toon Link in all his glory, and people are still whining.

It proves no one can be happy.
It proves no one can be happy.

How about you go find a thread about "How would you fix the 35 character roster", you will notice that many of the replies overlap and most people would already be content with the roster if you just switched two or three characters for two or three other ones.
Now look around yourself and you'll notice that only a handful of people are even so much as content with this roster.
And guess what, most of these characters ranked highly on the poll.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY, MIND-NUMBINGLY SIMPLE TO MAKE EVERYONE AT LEAST CONTENT.

"No one can be happy": Bull****.

Excuse me?

Sakurai asked for the fans' opinions.
He created a **** poll.
He said he was treating this game like fanservice, like it was its last.
Also, this.
He asked for our opinions.
He had a giant team.
He made a website to reveal content and raise hype.

We had all reason to expect that Sakurai WOULD listen to us all the way through, and everyone would assume that a game designer would design the core of the game before adding cute extras.
They advertised. We reacted, as programmed.

OUR HYPE WAS PERFECTLY REASONABLE.
IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT FOR RAISING EXPECTATIONS AND THEN DISREGARDING THEM COMPLETELY.

"Own hype": Bull****.

Some might like the roster, others might be really disappointed... And thats fine..

But for the love of Jebus, don't bash people just because their disappointed. Being purely unimpressed/disappointed, in no way makes one 'wrong'. Not everyone likes to be a "look at the bright side" apologist on the internet. I'm actually a really positive person in real life, but on the internet I see no reason why I shouldn't just call it like I see it. Opinions can't hurt anyone, ROB sucks.
And this.
We have a right as customers to be disappointed when we're promised a beautiful box of the most beautiful treasures, then after months or even years receive nothing but a beautiful box filled with a bunch of coins.

And that someone stands up against the majority doesn't automatically make them a hero.

Sakurai is just a man who did his job, and he didn't do it sufficiently well. He apparently let himself be swayed by his own childish desires. It sounds bitter especially coming from me, but the development of such a hyped game is one of the situations where you should let a professional do the work, not an eccentric who'll pretend to try to please the fans, then go chase butterflies halfway through.
It's probably fun to think of yourself as a messiah who's the only one who sees the light, but there are times when you should just suck it up and acknowledge that people have feelings and might actually have good reasons for showing them.


And finally, please stop calling people childish for "crying" when their favourite characters don't get it. Because quite frankly, I only see such complaints in their own respective threads, and when characters do get mentioned, it's about those shoe-ins that could be rationally expected.
Very few people will seriously complain about a single god**** character, and even fewer will seriously consider not buying the game because of one single character who didn't make it in.
It's the overall prospect of an unimaginative roster and the injustice of how our wishes were ignored that causes this indignation. Do not call it childish, and do not make it so simple for yourself to put everyone who can't just nod and smile into the same categories as the childish ones.


Oh yeah, one last myth to debunk.

People expect certain things of the games they buy. Most people will like the Brawl series because of their emotional connection to the characters. For most people, I assume at least, Smash is about characters.
If the characters don't satisfy, why would a person buy a game? Why would they waste money on something they won't enjoy?

A certain person I know expected nothing of the game except Mewtwo and Ridley. And not only did she not get Ridley, who was expected by most and would have been perfectly reasonable, she has Mewtwo taken away from her for no reason at all. If she stopped wanting to buy the game, wouldn't it be understandable?

We are not a nation, and we are not obligated to be patriots to the Smash community. In the end, it is still just a game, and we are still just players. And if we don't enjoy a game, we have no reason to play it.

"Not wanting to buy the game is bull****" is bull****.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
After reading this thread...I'm amazed by both sides...So here's my view...(not that anyone cares but I want to say it anyway).

I'm gonna love Brawl. It'll be AMAZING. Marth is back and I'm REALLY excited for that. Do I love the roster? Oh God no. My first main problem is ROB...okay, I play characters in Smash because I like the character, not what tier they're in. ROB was original and clever as the gimmick character in Mario Kart DS...IN MARIO KART DS. He's been done! Sukapon would've been an even better WTF character AND would've been original.

If Wolf makes it instead of Krystal I'll be disappointed as well. NO new female characters besides ZSS? Are you serious? Nintendo DOES have female characters....

Lucario gets in due to his popularity...Mewtwo's kicked out due to his awfulness in Melee...Mewtwo's brought WAY more to Pokemon then Lucario could ever ATTEMPT. Mewtwo is CLEARLY more significant to the series being one of the only Pokemon to be identified as a villian (in the movies and as the "final boss" of Red/Blue/LeafGreen/FireRed).

Clones...Ness' final smash being PK Starstorm too? Whaaaaa...? Where's my PK Rockin'? I've played/beaten EarthBound and I don't really get why Ness would have to borrow a FS from Poo AND Lucas. Toon Link? Welcome back Young Link, we hardly cared! I pray that the rumors of Ganondorf's sword are true...if he's Falcon without the helmet again that'll be kinda sad...Falco has Fox's FS too! WTF? Where's the Arwing Assault?!

The starting roster (plus Marth and Ness cause Ness is awesome ^^) totally ROCKS. I LOVE the starting roster! And don't get me wrong, I'll grow to love the other character's too. (Lucario and Toon Link I'm starting to like already so what I said above is me just ranting XD).

Claus, K. Rool, Ridley, Krystal, Geno...all characters I HOPED would be in Brawl. Am I gonna lose sleep that they're not? No. Do I dislike Sakurai for not putting them in? Course not. Am I upset that they didn't make it? Yeah, and I think I have the right to be.

Stages...WOW...there's a TON of awesome stages! Not to mention that the SSE is going to blow us all away. SO many music tracks, trophies and stickers...I love it.

So in conclusion...I'm going to love and throughly enjoy this game when I get it, heck I dobut it'll leave my Wii for a couple of months, but as of now the intial shock of the roster is still taking affect on most of us...so yeah...don't go telling people to stop complaining...they have just as much right to complain as you have to complain about them complaining ^^ (Phew...done XD)
 

NES Gamer

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
7
Location
Zeal Kingdom
I agree with the OP, still i have my own complains. Not like i speak the truth, because everyone reacts like the characters they hoped for (and a unknown in number fan base) were like mandatory for Sakurai, alright i wanted some Ridley, also Mewtwo back not that average Lucario, (but see? not everyone can love one character); but hey is a good game.,

And maybe people would be happier if they waited to play it and own it before arguing over some photos on the web, is kinda sick how people refresh the same forums/webs to know everything, what's the rush?. You feel it like is not what you expected because you haven't even played it. I guess the people that already went through the game were content.

About Ness, well i also hoped for things he can do on Earthbound (PSI rockin, Teleport), but well what can be said... Lucas is actually his clone xP.
 

Winnar

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
1,921
Location
Mississippi
This thread was not created for those who think logically. This was never about opinions. Whoop de doo, you feel one way or the other about a video game, congratulations. So do we.

One side is happy! HAPPY! What right do you have to try to take that away? Why would you even TRY to take that away? Chances are you won't succeed in your goal to bring down those who are "blissfully unaware" and even if you do succeed, where will that get you? Do you really want two miserable people instead of only one? Are you that selfish?

One side is unhappy! Unfortunately for you, those who ARE pleased by the turn of events will largely ignore your plight for sympathy. Chances are, you weren't even referred to in this argument. Ever. Chances are those who are happy were trying to lend a voice of reason to calm down those who strike out in desperate, unheralded anger.

I assume you loved the Smash Bros. series for (among MANY other reasons) its ability to showcase those who can think two steps ahead. Think of the consequence for your actions, please. You got by so far by your ability to think through an argument, now think of that argument's applications.

OLOL IT IS NOW 4AM.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Oh noes Krystal/Geno/Ridley aren't PCs? ****, this game tottally sucks.

/sarcasm.

To me, the only dissapointment is RoB. True, he is a WTF character, maybe too wtf... he is so ****ing weird...
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
So? I've whanted Ridley to be in the game since Smash 64, you don't see me crying right? saying the roster sucks is just stupid.
 

Ketoe

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
17
I like how everyone has given Up!

Calm down and relax. And Wait! your all acting like children.


Sakurai well not let us down.

Ketoe the best kirby player to be
 

Rick88

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
422
Location
South Gate, CA
You people are seriously starting to piss me off.

Let me try to clear up some misunderstandings.


It proves no one can be happy.

How about you go find a thread about "How would you fix the 35 character roster", you will notice that many of the replies overlap and most people would already be content with the roster if you just switched two or three characters for two or three other ones.
Now look around yourself and you'll notice that only a handful of people are even so much as content with this roster.
And guess what, most of these characters ranked highly on the poll.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY, MIND-NUMBINGLY SIMPLE TO MAKE EVERYONE AT LEAST CONTENT.

"No one can be happy": Bull****.



Also, this.
He asked for our opinions.
He had a giant team.
He made a website to reveal content and raise hype.

We had all reason to expect that Sakurai WOULD listen to us all the way through, and everyone would assume that a game designer would design the core of the game before adding cute extras.
They advertised. We reacted, as programmed.

OUR HYPE WAS PERFECTLY REASONABLE.
IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT FOR RAISING EXPECTATIONS AND THEN DISREGARDING THEM COMPLETELY.

"Own hype": Bull****.



And this.
We have a right as customers to be disappointed when we're promised a beautiful box of the most beautiful treasures, then after months or even years receive nothing but a beautiful box filled with a bunch of coins.

And that someone stands up against the majority doesn't automatically make them a hero.

Sakurai is just a man who did his job, and he didn't do it sufficiently well. He apparently let himself be swayed by his own childish desires. It sounds bitter especially coming from me, but the development of such a hyped game is one of the situations where you should let a professional do the work, not an eccentric who'll pretend to try to please the fans, then go chase butterflies halfway through.
It's probably fun to think of yourself as a messiah who's the only one who sees the light, but there are times when you should just suck it up and acknowledge that people have feelings and might actually have good reasons for showing them.


And finally, please stop calling people childish for "crying" when their favourite characters don't get it. Because quite frankly, I only see such complaints in their own respective threads, and when characters do get mentioned, it's about those shoe-ins that could be rationally expected.
Very few people will seriously complain about a single god**** character, and even fewer will seriously consider not buying the game because of one single character who didn't make it in.
It's the overall prospect of an unimaginative roster and the injustice of how our wishes were ignored that causes this indignation. Do not call it childish, and do not make it so simple for yourself to put everyone who can't just nod and smile into the same categories as the childish ones.


Oh yeah, one last myth to debunk.

People expect certain things of the games they buy. Most people will like the Brawl series because of their emotional connection to the characters. For most people, I assume at least, Smash is about characters.
If the characters don't satisfy, why would a person buy a game? Why would they waste money on something they won't enjoy?

A certain person I know expected nothing of the game except Mewtwo and Ridley. And not only did she not get Ridley, who was expected by most and would have been perfectly reasonable, she has Mewtwo taken away from her for no reason at all. If she stopped wanting to buy the game, wouldn't it be understandable?

We are not a nation, and we are not obligated to be patriots to the Smash community. In the end, it is still just a game, and we are still just players. And if we don't enjoy a game, we have no reason to play it.

"Not wanting to buy the game is bull****" is bull****.
You've pretty much summed up how I feel about the situation. The roster, *sigh*, is just very disappointing to be honest. I'm not saying the game will suck because of this, but I was really expecting something much better. I'm still looking forward to some of the game's more brighter features like SSE of course and using the Stage Builder as well. But still the roster, imo, feels really unfinished and uncreative.

That's just my 2 cents on the situation and it's very reasonable to feel this way. But if you don't agree, then that's fine, but don't be ignorant pricks saying things like "being ungrateful" or "don't buy the game" because of how we feel.
 

PwnyRide

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
638
Location
Australia
If people are rejecting the idea of Zamus and Shiek being included in the roster count, why was it called the 35 character roster in the first place...
 

Quaz

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
3,424
Location
Salem, WI (West of Kenosha)
yeah Im also upset about the roster, and I hate ROB too <_< I did hear from other pople that Sakurai promised atleast 40 characters and so far it doesn't look like we have that many. (but is this even true? or just internet rumors?)

but I WILL admit that there were other characters I wanted in that still would have pissed people off... and yeah I wont even mention those characters lol

clones? Clones never really bothered me.. although I WILL admit I wish Ganondorf had a new moveset =\ and it doesn't seem like he does...

idk though Im honestly hoping this isn't the final roster <_< but if it is I'll just do the best I can to live with it I guess (I'm already looking forward to playing pokemon trainer, snake, and seeing how Game and Watch will be this time around... )
 

PwnyRide

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
638
Location
Australia
I'm gonna main R.O.B and kick everyone's ***** online just to irritate people :bee:

EDIT: I also hope R.O.B is like top tier or something too. And he has a shine. Yeah :bee:
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Saying the roster sucks is really just pointing out the obvious.
Nope, in your opinion it sucks, in mine. It's a godly roster of awesomeness incarnated in the form of a CD.
 

1ofMany_ppl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Florida
If people are rejecting the idea of Zamus and Shiek being included in the roster count, why was it called the 35 character roster in the first place...
I can see why people are rejecting ZSS. I mean there is NO POINT to learning to play well as her if you are to enter tournaments. You can't select her normally you HAVE to use her FS.....I'm pretty sure tournaments will not allow those. I for one don't mind the roster but all I wanted was ATLEAST 1 NEW female....sigh.
 

A New Challenger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
188
Their passion for this game will never be known or fully understood by you.
I understand it pretty well. Clone characters = passion for the game obviously not burning with the fury of 1,000 suns. I place it on the passion scale between the passion I have for dusting the house and the passion I have for a good Meatball sub. On the ten scale, it's around a 6.
 

Spellman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
623
Location
Brickway
O.K. O.K. I was kinda mad about how mad everyone is getting about this roster, and I now realize something after talking to many-a-people in the real world.

Most people are surprised, and excited to hear news about what characters have made it into the Brawl, even just the ones on the Dojo. I've talked to many people who have expressed interest in the new leaked characters and how they are relieved that their favorite characters have not been cut and are returning to the Brawl.

So I've come down to the realization that most of the whining is coming from internet forums, where people are most critical and obsessed with Brawl. Most people who haven't been following the game from day one and don't patrol forums daily are blown away by the things they have seen and heard.

So even though it's hard for those of us who actually appreciate the amount of quality playable characters to stomach those who are complaining about everything in this game, bear in mind that there are millions out there who are still actually excited about the game and the content within it. It seems like an overwhelming majority are saying that the roster sucks, but really, it's just Smash World Forums and other forums that are saying the roster sucks.

The Encyclopedia Dramatica server is going to overload with all the lulz this crying whining "freedom of expression" is going to generate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom