Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[Da Shuffla]

I'm still working on shuffling with Falco. I'm also trying to get my lasers 100% accurate. I'm playing some of my friends next week at school. Shine combos for everyone. Sadly, I know they will john. So sad.

How often should I DD with Falco? Or, should I just stick to SHL?

 

[smasher91613]

im having 4 or so kids over next week for melee, should be fun.

btw what is "johning"?

 

[IrArby]

You make excuses to explain why your losing other than the fact that your getting outplayed.

 

[smasher91613]

You make excuses to explain why your losing other than the fact that your getting outplayed.

lmao thats exactly what my brother does when he loses. except he refers to it as "getted jewed out" by the game lol

 

[Falcinho]

@Da_Shuffla: Just try what suits to your style.

I personally like to DD or WD back instead of shffling at my opponents shield sometimes. I don't have to pillar but it puts some "mental pressure"on them.
I also use it to space myself better in some situations.

If your lasergame is very good, you won't need this as much, but if you fight someone who knows how to get around those lasers, you gotta be creative.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

if its not dittos i <3 dd shl for shileds

 

[IrArby]

If your opponent can't use platforms and isn't used to full jump approaches or can't waveshield than lasers can be almost broken. I pissed off this noob so bad the other day I'm still chuckling inside about it.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

falco combos are toooo cool.

 

[smasher91613]

man i have to get better with falco. i was owning my brother so bad and then he just started getting better and he just learned to shine me with fox when im off the platform and 3 stocked me. **** it was annoying! lol

 

[Mogwai]

man i have to get better with falco. i was owning my brother so bad and then he just started getting better and he just learned to shine me with fox when im off the platform and 3 stocked me. **** it was annoying! lol

don't get hit

 

[smasher91613]

don't get hit

lol well i don't think avoiding the shine will always be too hard but it's annoying how im trying to get all these AT's down and im still losing at least half the fox vs. falco battles.

i mean i can't complain too much cause i really haven't gotten them down enough yet. It's annoying how i can't use my lasers though cause he just shields and/or just gets 2-3 lasers on my by the time im done shooting mine.

i want to see if i can play with teh_spammer this weekend or sometime soon

 

[Mogwai]

lol well i don't think avoiding the shine will always be too hard but it's annoying how im trying to get all these AT's down and im still losing at least half the fox vs. falco battles.

i mean i can't complain too much cause i really haven't gotten them down enough yet. It's annoying how i can't use my lasers though cause he just shields and/or just gets 2-3 lasers on my by the time im done shooting mine.

i want to see if i can play with teh_spammer this weekend or sometime soon

spammer is absurdly good x_x

if you get to play with him, listen to what he has to say about playing Falco, cause he's seriously one of the best Falcos left

 

[smasher91613]

spammer is absurdly good x_x

if you get to play with him, listen to what he has to say about playing Falco, cause he's seriously one of the best Falcos left

the 2 matches i saw of him on youtube he lost lol but i've seen everyone lose and i can tell he was really good. but yea i really would like to play with him when he can, its a 25min. drive though

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yes. take all advice you can. learn some of their tendencies, like how they react to certain things...laser mind games (chops FTW)

 

[Da Shuffla]

Everyone should read the guides on becoming pro in the "Official Everything Thread." Those guides not only improve the technical aspect of your game, but also the mental part. Good stuff.

For fighting Fox, it's all about the shine combos. Close-range lasers are death. In my experience if I'm not comboing, I'm lasering. SHL applies constant pressure and forces your opponent to come to you. Never stop moving during a match. ESPECIALLY the Fox vs. Falco match.

 

[smasher91613]

Everyone should read the guides on becoming pro in the "Official Everything Thread." Those guides not only improve the technical aspect of your game, but also the mental part. Good stuff.

For fighting Fox, it's all about the shine combos. Close-range lasers are death. In my experience if I'm not comboing, I'm lasering. SHL applies constant pressure and forces your opponent to come to you. Never stop moving during a match. ESPECIALLY the Fox vs. Falco match.

how does it force them to come to you if they can just reflect them? i definitely have to get better at FFing SHL's but still i can barely get a shot it without it getting reflected or having him just do 2-3 lasers.

 

[Milos]

shl, land, shine, jc it into another short hop laser. Rinse and repeat

 

[Mogwai]

how does it force them to come to you if they can just reflect them? i definitely have to get better at FFing SHL's but still i can barely get a shot it without it getting reflected or having him just do 2-3 lasers.

shl, land, shine, jc it into another short hop laser. Rinse and repeat

No, that is a bad idea.

If they're trying to shine reflect, they're probably sitting in it a little while, in which case, you approach them while they're sitting in shine. If they stay in shine, shffl nair, kick their ass, if they get out of shine, rshl. Basically, once you're at a certain distance, shine is a terrible idea for them and they're forced to open up to either get shot or *****. If they're capable of running powershield though, that's when you need to be careful with your lasers.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

running powershield = ****

 

[Mogwai]

running powershield = ****

Yea... forces you to mix in empty SH -> waveland -> grab

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its hard to find someone that can do that like...really consistently though..or at least from my experience.

 

[Mogwai]

its hard to find someone that can do that like...really consistently though..or at least from my experience.

Scar, Cactuar, Pakman, Swiftbass, Jman, Eggm, etc, can all do it enough of the time, that you have to be really careful :\.

Pretty much everyone good in PA/NJ/NY can do it often enough that once they're within a certain distance, a SHL is like 75% likely to result in them taking 3% or just regular shielding it and 25% likely to result in you losing a stock, so I generally don't shoot at them within that range .

And I mean, that's only assuming they can do it only 25% of the time, Cactuars probably over 50% with running powershield, which means it's really really not worth it

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hahahaha look at the names you just posted though...they are all crazy good. i know what you mean though

 

[Da Shuffla]

RUNNING powershield?!! Is it worth the practice?

 

[Mogwai]

RUNNING powershield?!! Is it worth the practice?

If you main CF, Marth, Fox or Sheik, yes, because if you can running powershield a shl, you can get a guaranteed grab which is nasty with all of those characters vs. Falco.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Running powershield> grab> CG> Utilt juggle> Usmash. Sounds pretty good. Thanks.

What uses does the Uair have?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yeah running powershields are pretty sick you learn to do them..but im too lazy...i can do them like...on accident 0_O

edit: uair is sweet! sometimes i use it to approahc but thats rarely...high percentages beacuse the knockback is so low...on like peach marth sometimes ill shine upair and get the sweetspot ftw.

 

[Mogwai]

Running powershield> grab> CG> Utilt juggle> Usmash. Sounds pretty good. Thanks.

What uses does the Uair have?

highest hit box of all Falco's aerials (can finish combos that other aerials can't, typically high % shines on floaties like Mario and Peach), deals the most damage of all Falco's aerials, and has more vertical knockback of Falco's aerials. So basically, even those it sucks in comparison to Fox's, it's still decent when you can only land 1 aerial on an opponent or they are too high up to hit anything else or you are trying to kill an opponent who is high in the air and you can't land shine or up b.

Also, never approach with it, wtf are you talking about junglefever, lol. Unless you count trying to get under a high approach as an approach, don't ever ever ever uair approach...

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i do it cuz its funny hahahahaha....i woudlnt ever in like a tourney setting...like lasering into a uair..its just cool looking...but i really only use it when they are above me

 

[Falcinho]

I find it funny how most Falcos try to (shine)bair their opponents after sending them up high (with a shine/utilt) altho an uair would kill (at 110-120% on most stages)

Of course it easy smash DI-able, but somehow people aren't afraid of Falcos uair =P

 

[smasher91613]

I find it funny how most Falcos try to (shine)bair their opponents after sending them up high (with a shine/utilt) altho an uair would kill (at 110-120% on most stages)

Of course it easy smash DI-able, but somehow people aren't afraid of Falcos uair =P

its definitely harder to hit it well IMO and it's not great. If i kick someone back at 120 with a bair they might die, whenever i do uair (to my brothers fox/link for example) they dont die

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i <3 uair with all characters.

edit: anyone have any advice for samus and pika? i suck.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

don't get grabbed by pika. he can like cg you 0-death (i think, not sure, i know pichu can though). might even consider banning fd

and on the subject of uair, wtf is up with the sweetspot, like where is it -.- On the top or something?

 

[bahamutz69]

ok so multi shining with falco?
sorry to stray off uairs.

what does everyone do to do multishines.
i use my thumb, just my thumb. but i can only do 2... counting the one i start with.

any ideas for improvement?

 

[Falcinho]

its definitely harder to hit it well IMO and it's not great. If i kick someone back at 120 with a bair they might die, whenever i do uair (to my brothers fox/link for example) they dont die

Well if you hit them at the top of the screen (so FJ and at the peak of your FJ do DJuair) it kills people on most stages at that %ages. Iono about Bowser and such heavy chars tho, but who cares anyway

If your bair kills them at that %ages their DI probably isn't very good =/ (i assume you mean a horizontal kill)
However it's funny to hit people with the very beginning of the bair when they are at >150%.
If they have good DI they will die out of the top of the screen, and if their DI is bad they'll just die horizontally. They could ASDI up/towards the stage and then immediately switch their DI to down away, but it's ridiculously hard and still won't work most of the time.
Percentages vary tho, it depends on the stage and where you hit them (the closer to the stage ceiling the less percent they need)


@junglefever6478: Samus is a really gay matchup, so if you play an ok Sheik/Marth you could consider CPing with them.

However if you want to stay Falco, keep the control of the match with your lasers.
On PS the missile spam can be really annoying. If you get missile spammed, don't shine all missiles, also don't try to shield them everytime, if there are plattforms you can use them to evade this situation.

When you have the conrtol and approach, mind that don't approaching probably is better
Well at least don't just shffl against their shield (and don't pillar...). Use some lasers, wd back, grabs, etc. to annoy them.
If the Spamus sits there without a shield and invites you to shffl at her use the dair for more hitlag. Usually i recommend approaching with nair, but in this case the dair is really better.

If you start a combo keep in mind that her nair is a ****ing combobreaker, so keep your combos short and use the time to space yourself again. Nair/bair/fair (yes fair) juggles eventually work at mid-low %ages and/or crappy DI. And dair on the ground or better on platforms to techchase are funny.
And last but not least dair (to pop them up) to fsmash/shinebair is a cool combo.

And when it comes to edgeguarding just laser until Samus is underneath the stage and then edgehog and upBstall if you can. If she upBs onto the stage either ledgehop-dair or get on the stage and dsmash her or fsmash/dtilt if it will kill.
If you're superawsome like me, you can also jump off the stage while Samus is bomb-recovering and shineturnaroundbair so that the bair hits the bomb, which can mess up their timing, and then recover. I don't recommend this tho, cause it's super risky and stupid

@bahamutz69: It's really just about muscle memory. If you practice it you'll get better at multishining. I personally only can do 2 consistently (on bad days not even that =P) but i don't think they are that important.

 

[Mogwai]

Multishines seem to be a pretty important top level mix-up for shield pressuring, but at the mid to high levels of play, it's really not important at all. Concern yourself with perfecting everything else before you waste any time learning to multishine well. Also, I find shine -> JC grab is generally a more useful and consistent shield pressure mix-up than multishining, so seriously, don't worry about it until all your other tech is spot on.

Approaching Samus = Falco loses. Shooting lasers and playing defensively until Samus is at 150%ish at which point dtilting or spacing bair = Falco wins. It's a really simple and boring matchup. On low cieling stages, a dair on a platform at 40% should = dead samus off the top from dair -> shine -> dj -> shine, but other than that, nothing cool can happen in the matchup, so stick to your guns (har har, I made a pun) and just keep shooting lasers.

Pikachu cannot cg if you DI the first throw @ < 30%, so usually if they grab @ 0% they will try immediate uthrow -> usmash (since people suck at DIing the first uthrow). If they catch on to you being awesome and always DIing the first uthrow (you are awesome and always DI the first uthrow, right?), they'll start to tech chase you after the first uthrow, so it's like getting hit by CF, just mix up your tech pattern and hope for the best. After the 30% point, he gets to free cg you to 70%ish -> usmash which means that you're dead on the next hit, so don't get grabbed. Pikachu is actually a very frustrating matchup as Falco. Ban FD, be patient and don't ever ever ever get grabbed or knocked off stage, because then N64, Anther or Zig Zag will just kill you.

 

[IrArby]

All this makes me want to learn Pikachu. Even if I hate that little Rat Bass Terd!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Anther is too good...ok how do you do DI the first throw (thank you for answering this thread finally)

 

[Mogwai]

Anther is too good...ok how do you do DI the first throw (thank you for answering this thread finally)

Yes, Anther is incredible.

DI as hard as you can away. Pika's usmash has very limited horizontal range as compared to say, Fox's ridiculous usmash, so if you DI fully away, he can't get you with uthrow -> usmash @ 0% (or other low %s).

Also, on the topic of uairs. The strong part of the hitbox is the topmost part of it. If the other character is basically overlapping Falco in the air, you'll get the weak one which sends them nowhere. If they're legitimately above Falco (for the 2nd attack, doesn't matter for the first hit, that one's always weak) you'll get the strong hit, which has decent vertical knockback. Since you should only really be hitting that after high % utilts and shines, you should be killing heavy and fast falling chars around 140%ish on FD's ceiling, but with good DI (most people don't DI Falco's uair correctly) they can live longer. DIing backwards is the best way to DI Falco's uair, but most people brace for a bair and DI up with leads to killing earlier, which is pretty cool.

 

[Falcinho]

You're sure it doesn't kill until 140ish (FD)?
Edit: ah, heavy and fastfalling chars >.<, well irather use it on Peach and such *****-chars.

Seems like i overestimate it, hmm, gotta test it next time =D

And yeah it's funny how nobody knows how to DI it =P

Also after shinewavelands on a platform of YS or BF it's quite funny to kill with a DJuair ^_^