Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[IrArby]

Even after you get your techs down you'll probably screw them up in your first matches against other advanced players (I did at least) but you'll gain the ability to use them with more confidence fairly quickly. Once you've drilled enough in real matches against good players it becomes second nature faster since you don't have time to think it out to much and you'll get more comfortable. The hard part after that is getting your mind up to speed where you can think and react with that limited amount of time and not just throw out those moves that crush lvl 1s. This is where I'm at now.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Trust me, you'll learn. I was playing my bro the other day,(Me: Fox, Him: Falcon) and we reached a rare "moment of silence" at close range. Something subconscious made me WD into a grab, and begin chain throwing. They will become 2nd nature. I'm at the point where I can use most of the ATs in a real match. Except wavelanding, that is what I'm having troble with now. Go into training mode. Practice hard.

 

[smasher91613]

just had a friend over and played for 2 hours...so fun lol. i taught him wavedashing and i was using it and L-cancelling in our matches but not much worked out. i really only l-cancel falco's and lead into a shine.

my friend picked up fox and i taught him to edgegaurd with the shine, he got me a few times and the better he got the more fun it was.

and now some kids coming over who says he's 'Sick' at the game so that should be fun.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

LMAO i love those kids who go 'oh im SICK at this game' then you **** them

 

[smasher91613]

LMAO i love those kids who go 'oh im SICK at this game' then you **** them

lmao yea that just happened. I just owned him at first, especially his mario. His jigglypuff was alright. AND he kept talking about how he thinks he could easily beat me if he got used to it again, pretty ridiculous. To his credit he did get better as we played and his edgegaurding is better than mine but still i won about 90% of the battles.

Luckily i can see him getting really good and he said he would want to go to the rutgers smashfests and everything and i just got my other friend into it too

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yeah its always fun/helpful to train/practice with someone else

 

[JonaDiaper]

i think this will be useful for me...

How did you guys get to the point where you were good enough to do AT's as 2nd nature?

At this point i really have to get better at wavedashing, L-cancelling, and a few other things but i really can't put it into practice at all during a real match. was it something you learned while playing or did you have to spend a lot of time in practice mode getting it down?

me being a super quick learner, it took me about 5 months to be able to put it in play and be usable. i started in august of last year and by like feburary i was using my AT's without even thinking about it. and up until now, its been about mindgames, reading opponents, etc...

i have all my videos that i recorded from last august up until now. so buddy you got a reallllllyyyy lonnnggg way to go. just dont give up on it.

 

[smasher91613]

me being a super quick learner, it took me about 5 months to be able to put it in play and be usable. i started in august of last year and by like feburary i was using my AT's without even thinking about it. and up until now, its been about mindgames, reading opponents, etc...

i have all my videos that i recorded from last august up until now. so buddy you got a reallllllyyyy lonnnggg way to go. just dont give up on it.

wow are you serious? I mean im pretty good at most fighting games so i guess im a somewhat quick learner when it comes to that but 5 months? wow lol

 

[Junpappy]

It depends on how much time you have.

Who has suggestions for a Falco ditto in which I'm the slower Falco, getting locked down by lasers and well spaced aerials/grabs? (and DON'T say Shine lol)

 

[DtJ Jungle]

uhm sidedodge shine....

 

[IrArby]

check about one page back or so and it says that you'll wanna win the Laser battles whenever possible by mixing up the timing and (if you're like me) shining after you laser to reflect and **** up their timing. Timing is everything with Falco's lasers so any chance to mess with that timing even say neglecting to fastfall can work out to your advantage. IDK maybe I'll read this tommorow and think it was a horrible idea but Falco can combo the **** out of Falco so beware.

 

[Falcinho]

@CREA: It depends on your opponent. When he's that typical aggressive Falco, you should try to get in control while he is far away. For example when he approaches with shl, he'll just ff them automatically. To get in control you can either shine to throw off his timing (don't spam this) or shield the laser, then sh and laser asap (don't mind fastfalling, just get it out asap)
If he tries to shl again, he'll press B a bit later cause he wants to ff it. This way he'll eat your laser (before his comes out in most cases) and you can approach.

However if he's smart, he'll do this too soon, so try to watch your stage position and escape (jump on platform etc.)

Also watch out for stupid approaches alot. For example if he approaches with a shffl while your at low % --> cc shine
Or if he's at high %s and approaches the back of your shield (with bad spacing) --> sh bair before the laser hits you

You probably know most of this, but that's just what came to my mind now.

If you wanna talk with me about that matchup just send me a pm or add me in aim or sth.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Yeah Crea, I know what it's like to try to take on a much more aggressive falco, and I'm a pretty aggressive Falco myself. what I do is I full jump laser, knowing my opponent will probably try to get me...but since ive already got the upper hand ill most likely hit him first...after that it's pretty much situational...becuase after you both come down and arent fast enough he may be able to start approachign with lasers...so then ill mix it up with a shine or shield

 

[Da Shuffla]

Okay, I was practicing shine combos on a Fox in training mode, and I waveshined( from 0%) and then I went for the shuffled Dair. This only returned him to normal standing position. Is my timing just off?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

no your timing is fine when you first hit the dair it wont cause them to fall which is why its completely necessary to l cancel that dair so you can shine right away

 

[Da Shuffla]

This will continue the combo and not give him a chance to shine out?

 

[Falcinho]

What exactly was the question?

you shine-->wd-->shffl'd dair and he can do sth before you shine again?

i guess you start the dair too early and can't ff fast enough
or you don't l-cancel
or your waveshine to sh isn't fast enough

But it's probably because you start the dair too early and his hitstun is over when you're landing.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yes he shouldnt be able to get out unless like Falcinho said, you start the dair to early and you try to fast fall too fast.

 

[smasher91613]

i can feel myself learning more and getting better as im playing, its so fun again lol. mad fun pulling off combo's but i hope i don't get too much better than my friend or else it wont be competitive and i'll have to switch to only playing with my 2nd character. seems like im almost at that point

i really want to learn how to pull off some real combo's though, most of what im getting now is just because of the other players faults, not me doing a true combo they couldnt get out of

 

[KikoMePlease]

When I reverse short hop laser, I don't get the full boost when I jump from the initial dash. Why is that?

 

[Da Shuffla]

I might be doing it too early. Fox is at my shoulder during the Dair. My L-canceling may be off for Falco. I was doing it in training mode. There, I can't use the C-stick, which I use for Falco's shuffled Dairs. I was using the Z-button, which probably caused me to do it too early.

KikoMePlease: What do you mean by" boost?"

 

[KikoMePlease]

Boost as in you don't slow down when you're shling.

 

[Da Shuffla]

If I understand you right, you should DI backwards while SHLing, and then fast-fall.

 

[KikoMePlease]

No that's not what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37qZ2kfavdQ

1:34

 

[Da Shuffla]

Wow. I don't know. Just started playing Falco, but that is something I would like to learn. When I do it, I stop ALL horizontal motion.

 

[Junpappy]

Lol you guys have to dash before you hop.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

smasher true combos will come when at's and certain patterns and a certain mindset is engrained into your game. it takes a while but when you get one you'll be like....what...its the best feeling ever.

 

[KikoMePlease]

@Crea, You are misinterpreting my question. Of course I dash before I hop, but I still lose some initial inertia. I asked how to stop that from happening.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you are jumping too early? wait for the end of the dash animation?

 

[Mogwai]

@Crea, You are misinterpreting my question. Of course I dash before I hop, but I still lose some initial inertia. I asked how to stop that from happening.

It's about understanding how to just nudge the stick in the direction you want to fire rather than tapping it like you would a smash (if I understand the problem correctly). In other words, use the same amount of pressure on the stick as you would when doing a utilt from a standing position, if you can't do that, take 15 minutes and figure it out, knowing how to utilt without having to hold up is very useful.

 

[smasher91613]

1. Why are reverse SHL's important?

2. My brother just came home yesterday and although i've got better at shining and some other things i still only won 2/5 of the games (should have won another but daired to 2 deaths and the his fox ***** me the first time)
-What can you suggest for a fox like his? basically im used to doing a lot of dair's and aerial attacks but that doesn't work on him b/c he just moves out of the way and dodge rolls EVERYWHERE! lol it's annoying, he's hard to hit sometimes.

 

[Mogwai]

1. Why are reverse SHL's important?

When you need to run away, they cover your retreat. It also lets you play distance games while spamming lasers so that you can setup the approach you want.

2. My brother just came home yesterday and although i've got better at shining and some other things i still only won 2/5 of the games (should have won another but daired to 2 deaths and the his fox ***** me the first time)
-What can you suggest for a fox like his? basically im used to doing a lot of dair's and aerial attacks but that doesn't work on him b/c he just moves out of the way and dodge rolls EVERYWHERE! lol it's annoying, he's hard to hit sometimes.

Stop missing him. Space your approaches so that he cannot move out of the way. It's hard to give any other advice with that description (if you can call it that...) and no video.

 

[smasher91613]

When you need to run away, they cover your retreat. It also lets you play distance games while spamming lasers so that you can setup the approach you want.



Stop missing him. Space your approaches so that he cannot move out of the way. It's hard to give any other advice with that description (if you can call it that...) and no video.

lol yea not the best description. should i be short hopping into the dairs? its really hard for me to sh into a dair and l-cancel it even without FFing. and whenever i do any approach he just shields and when i land he hits me.

 

[terr13]

You can just laser spam and wait till he rolls, and punish it. If you SHFFL your Dairs correctly, you can shine before he can counter attack, and he'll get hit if he tries to do anything.

 

[Mogwai]

lol yea not the best description. should i be short hopping into the dairs? its really hard for me to sh into a dair and l-cancel it even without FFing. and whenever i do any approach he just shields and when i land he hits me.

If you're full hopping dairs, they're very easy to dodge, learn to short hop them and l-cancel. Also, dair = generally bad approach vs. a mobile grounded Fox because it lacks the range of nair. dair should mostly be used when you suspect the Fox will CC shine you or if he's below you in the air.

 

[smasher91613]

You can just laser spam and wait till he rolls, and punish it. If you SHFFL your Dairs correctly, you can shine before he can counter attack, and he'll get hit if he tries to do anything.

but he's fox so i can't even spam the lasers because his timing with reflecting them is good, over all the time playing he generally has a good idea of when i'll shoot.

yea i think i really need to get better at SHing in real matches and especially l-canceling. it's hard for me to tell if i'm doing an L-cancel right though.

like sometimes in practice mode i can do a dair into a shine l-canceled and the combo will say 2 whereas if i don't press l it's significantly slower. however sometimes i press L and it does go really fast like i L-canceled but doesn't say 2 for combo. am i still L-cancelling?

same with Nair l-canceled. theres a definite difference between when i press L and don't but i've only seen it once where the combo thing says 2 after a nair into a shine.

If you're full hopping dairs, they're very easy to dodge, learn to short hop them and l-cancel. Also, dair = generally bad approach vs. a mobile grounded Fox because it lacks the range of nair. dair should mostly be used when you suspect the Fox will CC shine you or if he's below you in the air.

isn't CC crouch cancel? how could he CC if he's in the air?

 

[Mogwai]

but he's fox so i can't even spam the lasers because his timing with reflecting them is good, over all the time playing he generally has a good idea of when i'll shoot.

yea i think i really need to get better at SHing in real matches and especially l-canceling. it's hard for me to tell if i'm doing an L-cancel right though.

like sometimes in practice mode i can do a dair into a shine l-canceled and the combo will say 2 whereas if i don't press l it's significantly slower. however sometimes i press L and it does go really fast like i L-canceled but doesn't say 2 for combo. am i still L-cancelling?

same with Nair l-canceled. theres a definite difference between when i press L and don't but i've only seen it once where the combo thing says 2 after a nair into a shine.

If you're doing it correctly, it should always say 2 combo. Also, practice mode is a bad idea since it disallows c-stick. Learn to love your c-stick for dairing and uairing at least, since you can use c-stick without fast falling on dairs or double jumping on uairs. L-cancelling should be very noticeable, especially when hitting a shield. If you hit a shield, l-cancel, shine, they typically won't be able to shield grab you, whereas if you don't l-cancel, it's a piece of cake to get shield grabbed.

isn't CC crouch cancel? how could he CC if he's in the air?

Yes, it's crouch canceling and he can't, I was just saying that dair doesn't get CCed effectively, so if you see a Fox just crouching there, waiting for your approach, dair > nair, since they cannot effectively CC. And of course, the case of a fox just crouching there never happens, but I just mean that in general, if you suspect a CC on your approach, use dair. Typically, Fox tries to DD grab Falco approaches though, so I don't frequently expect CCs from Fox, which leads to my bias towards using nair approaches in the matchup.

 

[smasher91613]

If you're doing it correctly, it should always say 2 combo. Also, practice mode is a bad idea since it disallows c-stick. Learn to love your c-stick for dairing and uairing at least, since you can use c-stick without fast falling on dairs or double jumping on uairs. L-cancelling should be very noticeable, especially when hitting a shield. If you hit a shield, l-cancel, shine, they typically won't be able to shield grab you, whereas if you don't l-cancel, it's a piece of cake to get shield grabbed.

.

hm, well he doesnt even know how to shield grab so that isn't a problem but will be with better players. i like practicing against low level computers more so i can use c-stick but that way i can't see if i use l-canceling correctly. sometimes in practice i get the dair > shine really quickly but it still says 1 for the combo. i don't use c-stick much but i guess i should

Yes, it's crouch canceling and he can't, I was just saying that dair doesn't get CCed effectively, so if you see a Fox just crouching there, waiting for your approach, dair > nair, since they cannot effectively CC. And of course, the case of a fox just crouching there never happens, but I just mean that in general, if you suspect a CC on your approach, use dair. Typically, Fox tries to DD grab Falco approaches though, so I don't frequently expect CCs from Fox, which leads to my bias towards using nair approaches in the matchup.

ok he doesn't know what CCing is either lol. idk how i lose to him.

 

[Falcinho]

yeah if you have problems with SHFFling (or any other technique) just practice it step for step.

First practice SHing, then doing SH-aerials and if you are able to do this, learn to ff and lcancel them.

 

[Mogwai]

ok he doesn't know what CCing is either lol. idk how i lose to him.

Until advanced techniques are second nature to you, they really don't mean much of anything :\.

Honestly, just keep trying to do stuff vs. level 4 comps and one day it'll all click and you'll suddenly feel your fingers understanding wtf they're supposed to be doing according to your brain.

You can also put a level 1 bowers with maxed handicap and you with minned handicap on endless melee and practice l-canceling after hitting a target. It's a big help when you're just learning how to pillar and you should start to notice l-cancels.