Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[smasher91613]

Until advanced techniques are second nature to you, they really don't mean much of anything :\.

Honestly, just keep trying to do stuff vs. level 4 comps and one day it'll all click and you'll suddenly feel your fingers understanding wtf they're supposed to be doing according to your brain.

You can also put a level 1 bowers with maxed handicap and you with minned handicap on endless melee and practice l-canceling after hitting a target. It's a big help when you're just learning how to pillar and you should start to notice l-cancels.

yea i noticed the AT's haven't helped much but thats what i would expect until im good at them.

for that last practicing with bowser wouldn't that be about the same as training mode except i wouldn't know if i was L-canceling?

 

[Da Shuffla]

Ah, I know a roll fiend. He's even said "dodge-roll," during a match. If he rolls behind you when you shuffle, try doing empty(fast-fallen) shorthops. Then, shine combo him at his vulnerable point after the dodge roll. On his shield: Dair>shine>JC grab RIGHT out of the shine. Looks cool, too.

Smasher: Trust me, a few hours spent learning this stuff is well worth it. Shuffling will soon feel natural. Use the C-stick. I used to use only the Z-button( because Fox jumps so fast), but with Falco it is excellent.

 

[smasher91613]

Ah, I know a roll fiend. He's even said "dodge-roll," during a match. If he rolls behind you when you shuffle, try doing empty(fast-fallen) shorthops. Then, shine combo him at his vulnerable point after the dodge roll. On his shield: Dair>shine>JC grab RIGHT out of the shine. Looks cool, too.

Smasher: Trust me, a few hours spent learning this stuff is well worth it. Shuffling will soon feel natural. Use the C-stick. I used to use only the Z-button( because Fox jumps so fast), but with Falco it is excellent.

you keep the c-stick set to smashes though right?

man i wish i could practice this stuff with some of you guys lol

 

[Da Shuffla]

What do you mean? I use the c-stick for my smashes, unless I feel lucky and want to charge it.

 

[smasher91613]

What do you mean? I use the c-stick for my smashes, unless I feel lucky and want to charge it.

well cause he said he used to use the z button over the c-stick but i never use the z button except for grabbing. i almost always use a + direction for my smashes but maybe i'll switch to the c-stick.

really want to go practice SHing and L-canceling but i gotta wait till the weekend before i'll have time.

2 questions...
1. theres only short hopping and normal jumping right? it seems like falco's SHed Dair would be too low to use sometimes

also..

3. is there much of a point to Fox SHing? i was trying to explain to my friend who plays fox now to use SHing for lasers but he jumps lower for his normal jump and his SH is hardly off the ground it seems

 

[Da Shuffla]

According to Cunning Kitsune, the shuffled Nair and Dair are Fox's "bread and butter" lead-ins. That, and Fox still has SHL, and SHDL, if you want to be annoying. Fox has VERY low short-hops. I'm working on ESH( empty short hop)>waveland. Crazy fakeout.

 

[smasher91613]

According to Cunning Kitsune, the shuffled Nair and Dair are Fox's "bread and butter" lead-ins. That, and Fox still has SHL, and SHDL, if you want to be annoying. Fox has VERY low short-hops. I'm working on ESH( empty short hop)>waveland. Crazy fakeout.

what would be the point of the ESH? mind games? im so far off from that point lol

whats SHDL again? i used to know but cant remember the D now

 

[Da Shuffla]

D means "double." ESH is for mind games. You do this to bait someone into doing something easily punishable. Such as: rolling, shielding, and spot-dodging. When you see them catching on, switch off and do an ESH. They will probably be waiting with a shield up, this is when you fast-fall, and grab him.

 

[KikoMePlease]

Thank you Mogwai :]

 

[smasher91613]

can falco do a SHDL? i can barely get the SHL each time, sometimes i just land hearing the clicking sound but no laser coming out so i know thats about timing but not sure about the SHDL from a normal jump. if he can how do i do it correctly?

 

[Milos]

if you drop of the ledge, you can jump back up and shoot two lasers at almost ground level, like a ledgehop without grabbing onto the ledge. it'll double up the amount of lasers you're shooting.

 

[Da Shuffla]

No, Falco can't do SHDL. His blaster isn't fast enough. Fox exclusive! Falco can double laser if he full jumps. I think I have seen this done to fend off aerial attacks. SHL is worth the practice. You sound like you aren't lasering fast enough, and your fast-fall cuts off your blaster fire. Travel along the outer edge of the Y button; this is because Falco has a slower jump, and you don't want to press b too fast. This same method will be helpful later when you want to multishine. Y>B> fast-fall. You will have to work on your timing to get the laser to fire while still cutting your lag with the FF. I'm still working on this, as well.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

falco can triple laser out of a full jump

 

[Da Shuffla]

Really? Oh, I forgot Falco's jump dwarfs Fox's. Also, I have learned to practice better, and not longer. Really focusing on learning the techs, rather than KOing the level one, is the main objective. I can shuffle pretty well with Falco. It's all coming together. Thanks, guys.

 

[Milos]

noo no, not shdl, ledgehop double laser, without grabbing the ledge. you drop off, hop back up and shoot two lasers, if done right they can even both hit a crouching fox.

 

[Milos]

and empty shorthop waveland is simply known as a triangle jump.

 

[Mogwai]

yea i noticed the AT's haven't helped much but thats what i would expect until im good at them.

for that last practicing with bowser wouldn't that be about the same as training mode except i wouldn't know if i was L-canceling?

No, the point of the Bowser exercise is that he won't move for at least like 200% damage, so you can practice what it's like to hit a shield/person on the ground repeatedly to get the feel for l-canceling. And you shouldn't need a combo ticker to know if you're l-canceling, it feels way faster, just practice and you'll see what I mean.

you keep the c-stick set to smashes though right?

man i wish i could practice this stuff with some of you guys lol

c-stick set to smashes? damn son, this is Melee, not Brawl, no changing the controller allowed .

well cause he said he used to use the z button over the c-stick but i never use the z button except for grabbing. i almost always use a + direction for my smashes but maybe i'll switch to the c-stick.

really want to go practice SHing and L-canceling but i gotta wait till the weekend before i'll have time.

Don't be a noob, learn to love your c-stick. Seriously, once you get over the original stigma of "oh, c-stick makes smashes too easy," and start using it, it's a great help (not just for smashes, but also arials, buffering, DI, etc). I'm not implying that that's necessarily why you don't use c-stick, but I remember it was my original gripe with it and it took me a long time to just suck it up and use it.

2 questions...
1. theres only short hopping and normal jumping right? it seems like falco's SHed Dair would be too low to use sometimes

3 basic types of jumps, short hop, full hop, double jump. Sometimes SHFFL Dair is too low to combo, so you have to either SH -> DJ -> FF -> Dair, or FH -> FF -> Dair.

also..

3. is there much of a point to Fox SHing? i was trying to explain to my friend who plays fox now to use SHing for lasers but he jumps lower for his normal jump and his SH is hardly off the ground it seems

Every character benefits from their short hop, these are Falco boards, no need to discuss why Fox needs SH, but suffice to say SHFFLing is integral to most Fox's games and SHL/SHDL are effective ways to stay mobile and rack up damage.

No, Falco can't do SHDL. His blaster isn't fast enough. Fox exclusive! Falco can double laser if he full jumps. I think I have seen this done to fend off aerial attacks. SHL is worth the practice. You sound like you aren't lasering fast enough, and your fast-fall cuts off your blaster fire. Travel along the outer edge of the Y button; this is because Falco has a slower jump, and you don't want to press b too fast. This same method will be helpful later when you want to multishine. Y>B> fast-fall. You will have to work on your timing to get the laser to fire while still cutting your lag with the FF. I'm still working on this, as well.

lol, if Falco could SHDL in Melee, he would be broken.

The double laser you're most likely refering to is performed by SH -> DJ -> Laser -> FF -> Laser, giving you a quick high/low laser pattern, very useful for controling the stage.

As to SHL technique, it's all about practice and what you feel comfortable with, there is no right way, so really no need to switch up finger positioning or anything unless you really can't get it.

falco can triple laser out of a full jump

Yes, but these are rarely useful. If you want double laser high, FH -> Laser -> Laser -> FF is better than wasting the time slow falling to get another laser low unless it's really gonna hit (usually in edge gaurding situations). If you want high/low, the method I described above is your bread and butter, it's really strictly better for maintaining control of the stage as it lets you hit the ground quicker and therefore adapt better to what happening. Fast characters can slip under the FH -> triple laser.

noo no, not shdl, ledgehop double laser, without grabbing the ledge. you drop off, hop back up and shoot two lasers, if done right they can even both hit a crouching fox.

They can hit a crouching anyone if you do it right -_-. I don't find this tech particularly useful, but it's a cool bit of flash to throw in every once in awhile.

and empty shorthop waveland is simply known as a triangle jump.

It's not. Triangle jump involves using the duration on airdodge in order to dodge through something, generally a laggy move like Marth's fsmash or Samus's charge shot. It's a very rarely used tech.

Empty short hop waveland is money though, very very nice movement trick that you can use to bait reactions and punish.

 

[smasher91613]

No, Falco can't do SHDL. His blaster isn't fast enough. Fox exclusive! Falco can double laser if he full jumps. I think I have seen this done to fend off aerial attacks. SHL is worth the practice. You sound like you aren't lasering fast enough, and your fast-fall cuts off your blaster fire. Travel along the outer edge of the Y button; this is because Falco has a slower jump, and you don't want to press b too fast. This same method will be helpful later when you want to multishine. Y>B> fast-fall. You will have to work on your timing to get the laser to fire while still cutting your lag with the FF. I'm still working on this, as well.

lol i don't even FF the SHL's. i think your right in that i shouldn't press b too fast because it does seem to work better if i wait till the top of the SH. i gotta work on FF when i do it and jumping towards/away from the opponent when doing it.

No, the point of the Bowser exercise is that he won't move for at least like 200% damage, so you can practice what it's like to hit a shield/person on the ground repeatedly to get the feel for l-canceling. And you shouldn't need a combo ticker to know if you're l-canceling, it feels way faster, just practice and you'll see what I mean.


.

idk, usually i can tell but sometimes in practice it completely feels like i l-canceled, it's much quicker but still comes up as 1 on the combo. also i could just press start in practice mode and have him back to 0 damage but i guess both work

Don't be a noob, learn to love your c-stick. Seriously, once you get over the original stigma of "oh, c-stick makes smashes too easy," and start using it, it's a great help (not just for smashes, but also arials, buffering, DI, etc). I'm not implying that that's necessarily why you don't use c-stick, but I remember it was my original gripe with it and it took me a long time to just suck it up and use it.


.

nah i just never used it because i got used to the other way and didn't feel like switching lol

 

[KikoMePlease]

Use c-stick to shffl your dairs, uairs, and for smash DI.

 

[Falcinho]

Afaik you can't smash DI with the c-stick.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Yhea you can only ASDI with the c-stick. In other words: unless you're planning to DI and ASDI in two different directions, there's no point in using the c-stick

 

[Da Shuffla]

and empty shorthop waveland is simply known as a triangle jump.

Isn't a triangle jump just a delayed WD? Meaning, we see the airdodge?

 

[Milos]

yeah it is whoo my bad, I was completely stoned when I wrote that message.

haha weed johns lol.

 

[Da Shuffla]

What is Falco's most useful throw? Or, does it depend on the situation? I plan on doing a whole lot of shine>JC grab. Which should I use?

 

[Junpappy]

Yhea you can only ASDI with the c-stick. In other words: unless you're planning to DI and ASDI in two different directions, there's no point in using the c-stick

Use both to DI. It works.

 

[smasher91613]

Use c-stick to shffl your dairs, uairs, and for smash DI.

does it make much of a difference? if so i'll switch, i just never used it much.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

throws are completely situational...grabbing with falco is just keeping the pace of the game to the way you want it...his actual throws arent all that great...just grab to control the game.

 

[Da Shuffla]

does it make much of a difference? if so i'll switch, i just never used it much.

I use c-stick. I used z with Fox for shuffles. However doing this with Falco made me do JC grabs. Too fast. Using the c-stick lets you DI elsewhere while doing the Dair, and you don't miss your fast fall by doing it too early.

 

[KikoMePlease]

does it make much of a difference? if so i'll switch, i just never used it much.

Well for me, I just find it overall easier and faster to shffl my dairs with the c-stick.

 

[Mogwai]

his uthrow is by far his most universally useful throw. As long as they DI it, it results in a free arial on most characters at lower %s, though with no DI they get hit by lasers and can react faster since it resets the hit stun.

dthrow -> tech chase is sometimes good, but I've found it less and less useful the more I play the game. I still do it on platforms sometimes as it limits the space you have to cover for tech chase.

fthrow and bthrow are mostly just useful for getting opponents off stage. Due to their terrible knockback though, it can be hard to get a kill out of the edgegaurd, since your opponent will have so many recovery options.

bthrow -> ftilt frequently works on fast fallers, and is especially spicy on people who like to double jump immediately as you'll frequently eat their jump, putting them below the stage where the edgegaurd is way easier to get something out of.

 

[Tee ay eye]

What situations make the nair better than the dair? And vice versa

 

[Mogwai]

What situations make the nair better than the dair? And vice versa

Well, I assume you're asking about on the SHFFL approach.

Biggest differences are these:

Nair Range > Dair Range
Dair Hitstun > Nair Hitstun
Dair Combo Potential at high % > Nair Combo Potential at high %

If you're most concerned with making contact (generally when the spacing is such that you're not sure about whether they can DD away from a Dair), nair is better. If you're fearful of CCing, dair's hitstun is more useful and it also sets up dair spikes or shine -> bairs at higher %s for the kill. Basically the key is understanding when you can afford to dair at the given spacing. When you can, it's generally better, but when you get caught by Foxes and Marths DD grabs, it's a seriously bad situation for you, so learn the spacing.

 

[smasher91613]

whats DD grabbing?

 

[Mogwai]

dash dance grab.

you attack, they dash away, while you're in landing lag, dash back and grab you.

 

[Falcinho]

Dashdance grabbing.

If you always approach with shffl'd dairs/nairs, your opponent will start to dodge those attacks by dashing away and then dashing back and grabbing you while you're landing.

Especially with Marth and Fox it's really easy to do this + you get chainthrown =/

So don't just approach straight forward.

 

[Mogwai]

dash dance grab.

you attack, they dash away, while you're in landing lag, dash back and grab you.

Dashdance grabbing.

If you always approach with shffl'd dairs/nairs, your opponent will start to dodge those attacks by dashing away and then dashing back and grabbing you while you're landing.

Especially with Marth and Fox it's really easy to do this + you get chainthrown =/

So don't just approach straight forward.

Got it first!

>=P

 

[Falcinho]

=O

I should train my keyboard skills.

=(

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i <3 falco.

 

[Mogwai]

i <3 falco.

I sorta <3 Falco.

Making a combo video with him is too hard though :'(. Everything has been done before and done better, it's really frustrating trying to make a fresh one .

 

[smasher91613]

lol well after some practice i've been kicking my brothers *** (weird cause he was beating me just last week) and won all but one match (which was in brawl lol).

so now he's tired of getting his *** kicked in melee. i have 2-3 friends who want to get good but theres really only one who seems like he would get that good