Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[mr_joey132]

so, you're doing the FF before the Dair? isn't that very hard to time? but it is indeed a very good way to make sure you FF.

 

[kiherbs]

Hey Shiz, im knew to the whole boards thing, and have been for a couple of weeks playing real competitive. i can SHL real good, wavdash, ldhl (now) ,SFFl, but i really dont understand how to waveshine, it is real confusing how some people explain it.

Also i play against a really good Link, and he's played far more than i have, 4 yrs, sometimes i own cuz i combo and do everythin right, but he beats me because he throws crap at me all the time. bombs, boomrng, and arrows. and it throws me off. any suggestions on how to counter that?
thanks in advance and my bad if u didnt understand it . btw u are so fast with falco that it hurts......

 

[invertigo]

laser so much that he has no choice but to attack you. think about how fast your lasers are. if you space yourself properly, you should be able to unleash so many lasers that he cant get a bomb or boomerang out.

 

[Handorin]

Waveshine:
Shine->Wavedash->Shine->Wavedash->Shine->Wavedash and so on.

If you can do each of those, just string it together.

 

[kiherbs]

koo koo. thx 4 the advice. i think thats why i win against him, when i use more lasers. lol thx

 

[smasher_25]

Hey, I have a question about the shl. Are you supposed to ff it when you jump, because whenever I try to ff, the laser sound happens, but I always hit the ground too early.

also, how do you move doing the shl? I always end up doing the phantasm instead of the laser, and I move across the screen so slowly. plz help me....

 

[vZakat]

Your fast falling too soon or your lasering too late. For a moving shl you have to first do a dash jump. (do a dash then jump) The dash jump will give you your forwrard momentum. Then just do a shl like normal but with that momentum.

O.k. Shiz I have a question. How do I know when to use an upair in a combo? I never seem to find the right place. Is there any way to set it up in a pillar combo or is it something I'll learn with experence? I'll just play you the next time we're both at Gigabits and find out.

 

[MasterGary]

Your fast falling too soon or your lasering too late. For a moving shl you have to first do a dash jump. (do a dash then jump) The dash jump will give you your forwrard momentum. Then just do a shl like normal but with that momentum.

O.k. Shiz I have a question. How do I know when to use an upair in a combo? I never seem to find the right place. Is there any way to set it up in a pillar combo or is it something I'll learn with experence? I'll just play you the next time we're both at Gigabits and find out.

You can dair , utilt untill the % starts getting to high to utilt anymore and then uair and you should be able to uair again depending on the opponent, and then you continue to combo. This usually works well on Fox's

 

[CanISmash]

questions....

i seen a few replies but i still dont understand it one bit. i always suicide. how do you jump up and do the double laser from the ledge.... i never reach the ledge and if im pressing forward and b im going to end up phantasm....

another question. the ledge drop back-kick. i can never reach the ledge again. even if i try up b i just fall way to far. any tips. i read that after the back-kick you should be able to grab back on..... do you have to connect with the kick to do this???

falcos up b. i dont know maybe its my controller, if so im getting a new one soon but when i up b, occasionally he will move toward the ledge but for some reason be facing the other direction and just fall by the ledge. i know to press up-b diagnolly right so is it my controller or does this just happen sometime??

finally getting edge guarded with falco is horrible for me. i played a marth and i felt like i was done at 30% . tips on recovering??

 

[xelad1]

questions....

i seen a few replies but i still dont understand it one bit. i always suicide. how do you jump up and do the double laser from the ledge.... i never reach the ledge and if im pressing forward and b im going to end up phantasm....

another question. the ledge drop back-kick. i can never reach the ledge again. even if i try up b i just fall way to far. any tips. i read that after the back-kick you should be able to grab back on..... do you have to connect with the kick to do this???

falcos up b. i dont know maybe its my controller, if so im getting a new one soon but when i up b, occasionally he will move toward the ledge but for some reason be facing the other direction and just fall by the ledge. i know to press up-b diagnolly right so is it my controller or does this just happen sometime??

finally getting edge guarded with falco is horrible for me. i played a marth and i felt like i was done at 30% . tips on recovering??

for both the lhdl and the bair from the ledge (so that you grab on) the easiest way to do it is by using the control stick to jump. For the lhdl press down then up (practice getting this motion down so you jump on to the ledge). Then try pressing b twice in between. At first it may seem really difficult but after you get the hang of it you won't forget the timing. Same thing with the bair. Press away from the stage and press up to jump (its kind of like a quarter circle role from the left to top position) and then bair with the c stick (you can also do a uair this way). I find its also easier to do the firebird ledgestall in the same manner, away from stage up b right after.

The control stick is not the only way , obviously you can use x and y, but it is much easier to do these things with it because it frees up your right thumb to press b, c stick... w/e.

 

[madskillz313]

i personally use my control stick to press away x to jump and holding away i press a and immediatley slap my control stick the other direction when the animation for bair starts. i never suicide with it but maybe its just me. i have done it that way forever tho

 

[MasterGary]

I push down on the control stick, jump with x and then bair with the c-stick.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Sorry I've been really busy guys. Anyways to answer that one guys question about the Upair. You can use it whenever you have the same opportunity for the Up tilt, or whenever you see an open spot when they are close to the ground.

 

[saberhof]

aah!! atlast!. ah **** i forgot my question..

 

[Secks.]

Hey Shiz, congrats on your placing at Insomnia. Stiff competition with Foward, Tink, and Darkrain. I've had to get my *** handed to by Darkrain myself :\. I still say that you have such a unique Falco style like Bombsoldier, you guys move so fast and make everyone else look slow. I'd love to see you ditto a Pc Chris, and Foward again. Anyway, I was wondering exactly what you do to get that shine to bair off so quickly. I know you jump cancel the shine but it almost seems like you do it a lot quicker than I can. Do you just jump out of it quick with x or y or do you jump out of the shine with the control stick? Everytime I see you do it, you usually get a full jump out of it, it looks like. Just curious cause I'd love to add that to my Falco game. Got any tips vs a Yoshi btw, cause my friend whos pretty much a pro Yoshi gives me a hard time. Thanks.

 

[choknater]

i might not be shiz, but i can say i'm a pretty well-versed anti-yoshi myself.

yoshi has huge problems with stompers. that's when you use repeated dairs with falcon, ness, etc. yoshi is combo meat for getting bounced up and down... don't rely on the shine combos because yoshi's DJC is a combo breaker. dair combos without the shine are faster and do more damage as long as you tech chase properly. if he doesn't tech, then it's more dair meat. <----- that entire paragraph pretty much summed up: dair ***** yoshi.

pressure him just like you'd pressure any other character with falco. his falling speed and weight is similar to ganon and link... pretty much in between. combo yoshi like you'd combo them. there are some discepancies for super technical yoshis though, so watch out for these:

- ledge egg toss spam. fumi does this a lot and so do most good yoshis. when he does this there isn't much you can do. wait for him to mess up, run to the other side of the stage and spam lasers or hold your reflector. if he mistimes an egg and your laser hits him, he is dead (unless his reflexes are SUPER FAST and he smash di's the laser and air dodges immediately after getting hit.)

- crouching yoshis can duck lasers and also powershield them. my crew member PARK said falco's lasers are simple to power shield... just duck and shield when the laser is above the saddle, he says. but it's just like with reflectors/capes/nayru's love. don't be confused by reflected lasers.

- if you're not sure you'll get the next hit of a combo, stop and retreat for a bit then rekindle the pressure. yoshi's CC and djc are the game's most amazing and confusing combo breakers.

- yoshi's light shield gives his egg traction far beyond that of luigi. don't get too confused when you dair his shield and his egg slides several feet away. just keep up pressure.

in short, falco vs yoshi = high pressure and dair combos. just play it safe and straight forward. yoshi can combo falco just as bad as falco can combo yoshi, but it takes much more technical skill for the yoshi to play consistently. as long as pressure is high, the falco has the upper hand. no yoshi is as perfect as bringer or fumi. most falcos are technically sound.

also: sometimes falco's shine stops the ascent yoshi's double jump. hit him repeatedly while he's on his 2nd jump and it'll work to your advantage. yoshis can plan DJC counters but it's difficult against falco's b moves. heck, even falco's up B works against yoshi. (sparingly)

 

[Secks.]

Yea thanks for the tips. The Yoshi player I play is extremely technical and is probably one of the best in the nation. Hes been around for a couple of years now and people hes played like PC and Ken have given him props for his Yoshi. I think for the most part, its my experience compared to his that has me but I'll try to keep everything you mentioned in mind next time I play him. Sadly he gives me enough trouble using any other high tier character besides yoshi. For the most part his Yoshi is the only character he can dominate me consistently with.

 

[saberhof]

how do i follow up the pillaring if my opponent DI's, i see in most vids, that you wavedash to him and start it off...can i run, or should i use this wavedashing technique, and if this has already been asnwerd, id like a link.

 

[_Phloat_]

Question: I had an idea recently, and I wanted to know if it would work, it is already being used, ect. SH a Fair, delay the FF a little, and you will get two hits off! This works well with combos for me, but the problem is, these combos are on my DI /tech ******** friends. Does this work any in the metagame? It looks like it would, if they drop the shield they still get hit, and the second hit is really really close to when you land, so it seems like if it is L canceled it would work nicely..

Anyways, If you understand what the heck I was saying, please answer...

Oh, and Shiz, I saw you vs forward at INN,great playing man, I was the kid in the front who rubbed your arm.

Umm, anyways, during that match, when you guys were having the laser fight, why did neither of you take out the shine and reflect the lasers, I have wondered that since I saw you

 

[Nightblade]

Your fast falling too soon or your lasering too late. For a moving shl you have to first do a dash jump. (do a dash then jump) The dash jump will give you your forwrard momentum. Then just do a shl like normal but with that momentum.

Gah, I'm having this problem, but I can't seem to change the way I'm SHLing. I've tried practicing in 2/3 training but I do it there too. Should I shoot as soon as I leave the ground?

 

[MasterGary]

I was the kid in the front who rubbed your arm.

U know how strange that sounds?

 

[_Phloat_]

^Yes, I know, it is a long story, but anyways, do you know the answer to my query >__>

 

[DaShizWiz]

Phloat, I think the reason why we didn't use the reflector to reflect the lasers is because we'd rather get hit, then to be lagged by the reflector. If he knows this which I think he does, if you shoot a low laser near the ground (A real short hop laser), it will get reflected, then you can jump over that laser when it comes to you and then do a real short hop laser again, so you can keep the person reflecting in their reflector. Thats probably one of the reasons why I didn't use the reflector.

Secks, some advice I have vs Yoshi, is when they are recovering, out of their double jump thing that you cant hit them out of, shine them with Falco. While they are in the air recovering it will stop their Double Jump and leave them stunned in the air falling. This is called the Shine Freeze, my brother SmashMac made a guide on this and figured this out a while ago. Try it, it works really good.

And thanks to you guys that say you saw the set of me vs Forward, and to all who liked the matches .

 

[saberhof]

was mine already answered?

 

[tarheeljks]

i think my falco got better just from watching that ditto.

 

[the_air_up_there7]

Hey shiz it's me again, I really need help against shield grabbers, obviously I use falco and I was wondering how can you counter them or be effective with falco against shield grabbers, it's because I'm going to a tourney where I know alot of ppl use alot of shield grabbing, any help????? do I multishine, or dodge, or pillar them? So i can practice doing it faster, the tourney is next week. How do u practice b4 a tourney?? i need to win this.......

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Hey shiz it's me again, I really need help against shield grabbers, obviously I use falco and I was wondering how can you counter them or be effective with falco against shield grabbers, it's because I'm going to a tourney where I know alot of ppl use alot of shield grabbing, any help????? do I multishine, or dodge, or pillar them? So i can practice doing it faster, the tourney is next week. How do u practice b4 a tourney?? i need to win this.......

It amazes me how people look up to the pros and ask for every little tip instead of testing for themselves. Just ask them for critique, not try and become a clone of them by asking them what and how they would do it. Not to be rude or anything man, but you could just... grab them.

SHFFL Attack to grab instead of shine too.

Jump in front of them as your leaving the ground and shine, jump out of that and land behind them.

Multishines and Pillaring come in handy, but really I think you should use those as a spare the moment type of thing. When you do the SHFFL attack to shine and think they are gonna sheild grab you or know it then start the pillar or multishines.

Change up your approaches man.

SHL --> Reverse SHL behind them to grab, or if you are behind them you can try and pillar.

There are alot of options man.

Don't copy a persons style, make your own. To many people trying to become clones of others out there already.

 

[invertigo]

if youre doing something to get grabbed, stop doing it.

if you are getting grabbed because you cant lcancel right, well then you know what you need to do.

 

[madskillz313]

can sumone tell me which is the correct way to combo? is it to shine cancel ffdair L cancel wave dash shine or is it shine cancel ff dair L cancel wave shine?

 

[Nurok]

KC why is it that MD falcos are just pure pwnage? why do we each have a unique style that makes us amazing and pure pwnage?

 

[tarheeljks]

don't toot your own horn or anything. . . just kidding.

@cloud: i sort of agree with you. i think it is only natural to consult the pros when you are having problems. i'm sure most posters have tried to solve the problem on their own. that being said people would be better off creating their own style of play instead of trying to mimic dashizwiz, forward, etc. (emphasis on trying).

i also feel that too many falcos spend too much time trying to pillar. everyone knows that falco destroys shields and that the shine makes it extremely difficult to shield grab him. so if someone uses shield grabbing the main tactic against your falco, your aren't l-cancelling. instead of being a robot and just doing sh-dair-shine against a shield try to mix it up. kc cloud offered quite a few good ways to diversify a falco. the less creative your game is, the more likely you are going to be grabbed.

 

[MasterGary]

I consider my Falco pretty good. I mixed some elements of BombSoldier and DaShizWiz and some of my own stuff and I got to where I am now. The main thing I use from Shiz is the shine-->bair.

 

[invertigo]

if i had to choose id say im a mix of forward and BS.

but not nearly as good of course

 

[CanISmash]

anybody here use y to jump. i need help with double jc shine.... ( i think thats the name.) i got the pillar down. short hop down air shine but i usually can only followed with a back a, neutral a, or forward a. anyone have tips on doing it

 

[DaShizWiz]

Saberhoof, i sent you a PM. I'd be glad to help you with stuff you need.

K.C. and Tarheels are right. But guys, I dno't mind giving the guy a tip or so on what to do vs Shield grabbers. I usually double shine pillar, or space them out. But it is what your most comfortable with. So to the guy that asked what he should do vs Shield grabbers, I would either space them out or Double shine pillar or just do a JC grab out of a shine after a dair.

And to others that may think I copy BS, I will tell you, I look at BS as a romodel. I tried copying almost everything he does, but I figured out some of what I do is better in some situations. So what I do is I copy all his combos, look at someone else like PC or Forward, copy some of their mindgames or whatever they do thats smart. Then I look towards my main and one of the best Falcos in Florida, Lambchops. Lambchops almost created my falco playing style, but I just took everything that was good and made it better.

My advice for people is that want to get good or have pro status. Is look at videos of great Falco players. And take what they do that works really well, and keep doing that.

Thats what I did. To be specific the people I took things from are:

Bombsoldier
Forward
PC Chris
Lambchops
FlowinWater
Some of Dope
Zanguzen
Rob$ a little


There might be more but thats mainly it. I suggest that people look these names up on Youtube, and see what they do, and take a piece of what they do to make yourself better.

My playstyle is a mix between all these players and a lot of stuff from myself. But this is what worked best for me, if other people have better methods, keep to them.

 

[saberhof]

ooh >.> i didnt get that pm, you got msn?.

 

[Nightblade]

Ok, I've got a couple questions.

SHL: Should you fire as soon as you jump and then fast fall? I'm getting the click, but no laser.

Up-tilt: I see people use it a bunch in videos, but I'm not sure exactly when it is best to apply it.

JC Shine: Now, in the JC grab, you don't actually jump, but you do in the JC Shine, right? (Just making sure ^^ Also, is it just me or is short-hopping out of a shine much harder than a normal short hop?

Shine Turn: I've only used it once or twice to get out a bair instead of a forward nair, is this the best use of it? Is it even worth using?

SHFFL: I'm starting to be able to SHFF my attacks but L-canceling is another story. Should you l-cancel right after the attack or just before you hit the ground?

Smashes: I've been told the up-smash is worthless, the fsmash is fairly situational, but the dsmash is gold. Also, I've been told that the dtilt is much better in all regards than the dsmash or the fsmash o.O

LHDL: Fast fall, double tap B, press forward, fast fall, right? Doesn't seem to be working very well for me. Also, is wavelanding or ledge-hopped aerials a better idea in general is the LHDL better in all cases?

Waveshine: Is a waveshine a JC Shine that you airdodge into the ground? That sounds right, but I've never been sure.

 

[xelad1]

nightblade:

SHL: That means you are fastfalling too fast and not hitting b fast enough, try slowing it down, jump laser fastfall. Try to practice shooting it at a crouching sheik or a jigglypuff also so that you know how to fire it as low as possible. (perhaps someone else can elaborate more on what the actuall timing is? I just learned through practice...). Either way I encountered this problem too, just slow your motions down until you can get the laser out every time, eventually you won't have this problem.

Up-tilt: This can end some combos after a fullhopped dair (best example I've seen is one of the bombsoldier combos where you shine marth dair him and catch with an up tilt). Its also good for juggling fastfallers... kind of situational but those are the 2 best ways I can think of using it.

JC Shine: Depends what your talking about here. JC shine refers to simply jumping out of your shine so yes in that case you do jump out. If you are talking about multishining (multiple jc shines on the ground) then no you don't jump out if you do it fast enough. Short hopping out of a shine on the ground to my knowledge does not take longer than short hopping normally (I might be wrong though).

Shine Turn: its worth using for a shine turn wavedash edgehog (faster to edgeog this way), and for extra flashyness which is a key component to any falco's game.

SHFFL: you l cancell before you hit the ground, think about it l cancelling a short hopped attack is different than l cancelling a full hopped one. Practice l cancelling on platforms, all different heights etc... so that you get in good l cancelling habits, otherwise you will l cancell automatically after an attack, which will work for shffling usually but not for l cancelling for other moves.

Smashes: None of falcos smashes are "gold" persay. D smash is usefull because it covers both his sides and comes out very fast. F smash can kill if you manage to land it and it can also finish some combos (mostly on fastfallers). D-tilt is a good tilt, its a guaranteed KO pretty much on any character around 130% i believe, hence one more finishing option for falco. Aerials are really where falco gets most of his kills though. I forgot to mention that the D smash is also usefull for edgeguarding because it sticks out over the ledge and because it comes out fast like i mentioned.

LHDL: easiest way is to press down (dropping from the ledge) with the control stick and then pressing up DIing towards the stage (jumping) with the control stick, imeddiately afterwards hitting b twice (remember you have to let go of the control stick immediately or you will firebird, midair). Its one of falcos best ledge recovery options, just be careful when your opponent gets really close to you. You never want to recover on the stage just one way, sometimes you are going to want to ledgehop aerial, sometimes waveshield, over b etc. I use LHDL most commonly but it can become predictable.

Waveshine: Your definition is right on but there is an easier way to say this.... wavedashing out of a shine...

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Well Shiz, I PM'd you before but really all I wanted to do was talk to you about some things and up coming tournies you were going to. Try to make it to pound 2 if you can.

Anywayz, hit me up man. I had an Idea for pound 2 if you were interested but your call.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In regards to NightBlade:

SHL Question: Yes, Short hop then laser, after the laser you fast fall. After you get used to it, you can vary the laser timing and the timing of your fast fall to have the lasers at different heights.

U-Tilt: Is Falco's Highest priority move. Sometimes it's better to use the uptilt after Dairs rather than the shine. Also usefull for juggling fast fallers/outprioritizing some peoples moves. Use it sparingly though, comes down to situational experience.

JC Shine: Jump cancel grab requires you to jump before doing the grab animation. JC shine just needs you jump out of the shine. If you do it successfully w/o leaving the ground, you can do another shine and repeat.

Shine Turn: Depends on your play style and situations. Though I'd say that is a good way of using it. It's not a very common thing that many falcos use.

SHFFL: As you hit the ground, though your attempts at throwing attacks should be as close to the half way mark coming down on the SHFFL.

Smashes: Up smash is not worthless by any means. It can start good combos sometimes or lead into some nasty ****. Usmash out of sheild is good too for just getting the opponent in an unfavorable position.
Fsmash is situation, you have to know when and how to use that affectively or you could get ***** for it.
Dsmash is good, not the best because alot of times when you do it, it can be tech'd. Though it works as a good edgeguarder and on platforms when you tech chase with D-throw to dsmash since they have limited tech distance. Often times it puts them off the stage, then you just gotta keep them the **** off lol.
Dtilt is good for getting under a weakening sheild most of the time. Good for killing if the opponent doesn't want to die. At lower percentages it can start some pretty nice combos or can give you the opportunity to put the opponent off of the edge.
No move is better than every other move in EVERY situation. You have to surprise your opponent with attacks and pressure to get the kill/put then off the edge of the stage.

LHDL: If you forget to jump before doing the lasers back on to the stage, you'll die.
In regards to ALL cases, no doing other things are not better. It's situational, depending on your opponents position, what you want to do and what you anticipate they are going to do. Make the best choice of how to come on to the stage at that time, whether it be Aeriel, wavelanding, Forward B, or just playing on the ledge to mess with them to SHDL. Take the best option.

Waveshine : Almost, but instead of just coming straight down you go at an angle as though wavedashing.

 

[xelad1]

lol KC we answered his question at the exact same time.... btw isn't dair falco's highest priority move not utilt?