Who is the Best Marth right now?(Mew2King excluded)

[Archangel]

^ **** you! I said NO RELIGIOUS DEBATE!

 

[the_CAM_factor]

can we please talk about marth.

 

[Aber]

please no spam arrows calling threads his own

 

[Archangel]

It...is mine. It's got my name on it

 

[OverLord]

The bible being taken alegorically is a new trend developed in the fifties to allow lazy people to believe they were going to heaven without having to believe in stoning gay people/other such things.

It is not common knowledge, but a common misconseption that most of the bible was meant to be taken alegorically.

Dats aight tho', if you don't believe anyways than it isn't worth explaining to you

Oh yeah sure, and the last 4000 years of Judaism and Christian theology are there just for fun.

You are talking about some boorish pilgrim that couldn't barely read back in 1700, and forgetting about ALL that was before.



You REALLY don't know what you're talkin' about.




I apologize once more for the off topic.

 

[Van.]

Its easy to say I don't know what I'm talking about without laying out any argument of your own.

Are you claiming that the bible wasn't taken literally during Christs time? Because in that case, it is you who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[OverLord]

O_o'

Which one of the billions of theological essays about Bible and Christ do I have to quote you then?

Augustine of Hippo..? Thomas Aquinas..? Every Gnostic on Earth from II to III century?
Flood Myth..?



Just choose one.

 

[Van.]

the flood myth one

 

[danieljosebatista]

Ok, seriously why is this continuing lol. I realize I sort of started it by talking to M2K about it but this is a Marth thread goddammit!

 

[Veetaak]

That SoaK dude was super convincing, I think I'm gonna switch over right now /sarcasm

Ice is really good

 

[danieljosebatista]

^lmao, I like you Veetaak. Hey, a lot of you Europeans think Ice is big news. Not saying I don't believe it, just wondering why you all think so. His style is awesome to watch and he definitely knows how to fight Falco (at least in Pal). Do you think he's that much better than the other high level marths?

 

[Beat!]

From Beast 2:
3-0 vs leffen
3-0 vs IVP (including a 4-stock)
3-1 vs Calle W
3-2 vs Aldwyn
4-2 vs Zgetto

Whether he's "that much better than the other high level Marths" or not is not something I want to speculate on too heavily at the moment (at least not before Apex), but it's clear that he's an extremely competent player.

 

[danieljosebatista]

Fair, although against Armada Ice did about as well as Taj did. Which is to say not that well lol. Not criticizing at all, I'd get *****

 

[Beat!]

True dat.

But I don't think anyone is trying to say that he's on Armada's level.

 

[danieljosebatista]

I really want a Marth to be on top again it'd be so great to see

 

[Beat!]

Don't worry, I'm working on it.

 

[Aber]

PLEASE ice at apex

 

[crush]

Ice my child.

 

[Sephirothxxx]

SephirothKen needs to show up at a major tournament and show everyone how its done with Marth. If Marth wasnt capable of winning, people like Ken wouldnt use him.

 

[Bing]

We just got finished with the Ken discussion lets not get into it again XD

Also, Ice is legit, and for the record, Ice might do aswell as Taj against Armada, but that still gets him 3rd at APEX... And I dunno about you guys, but I'd be pretty damn with 3rd....

 

[SoaK]

@all, the only reason I posted that is because M2K says he feels like ending his life. To me that's very serious. I wanted to help him with the truth that has helped me cope with my life problems.

On to the topic:

There is overwhelming evidence/history to prove that M2K is definitely the best Marth.

 

[Teczer0]

Skimming through that sort of severe topic wasn't mentioned. He just is complaining how he feels he didn't do much with his life.

Both are not topics that should be discussed here. Take it through other chat means.

I don't wanna sound cruel but you guys are going a wrong way about solving this. Jason, if you're feeling down talk to people you know are willing to listen and help you.

Religion based topics aren't allowed, because they are highly controversial and personal to many. Keep it out, or I'll infract and not lightly.

 

[Niko45]

I believe niko is going to Apex. Also Azen will be there. I think he uses more spacies though against sheik/falcon and in spacies dittos. I think he only uses marth against fox/peach/marth dittos. I hope Azen brings back the marth in full force though.

P.S. Niko has gotten mad good over the last few months. He's gonna do work at Apex

Thanks man.

Niko's the best. Okay were back on topic

Wow see my 1337th post was dedicated to the homie....thats how beast he is

LOL ok I'm not gonna lie I'm feelin myself on that one.

You need to come back to PC's asap and **** me again tho.

 

[Archangel]

Marth's plee to all that main him right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe0cEZqrk8

 

[Diakonos]

Don't talk about Jesus; you might be infracted.

There's lots of reductionistic arguments floating around here. If you're going to preach tolerance, preach it tolerantly.

 

[Mew2King]

marth is a lot better if you don't play perfectly when you fight him. He KOs from a mistake super hard

that happens less lately than it did in the past. It's also hard to fight people that know to block at high %s so killing becomes difficult.

 

[Cherished Doll]

M2K is a hero **** you dart!

 

[twizzlerj]

damn this thread got crazy. M2k thanks for all the amazing things you did for melee your Marth will always be the best.

 

[danieljosebatista]

M2K your marth destroy's foxes, i know you have trouble with falco (top falcos anyway) but do you think powershielding is a good way to find openings against falco?

 

[Archangel]

I think the next level of Marth is power-shielding 50% of lasers or more consistently.

 

[Beat!]

Powershielding lasers is really good and quite useful in the matchup, but I honestly don't think that putting down all your energy on being able to PS every single laser Falco shoots is time well spent. I think you'd find much more success by looking at several ways of dealing with lasers, and using PSing when it's appropriate (such as when the laser is poorly spaced and/or can be punished by PSing, or if the Falco is being too comfortable with lasering a lot).

 

[Archangel]

Powershielding lasers is really good and quite useful in the matchup, but I honestly don't think that putting down all your energy on being able to PS every single laser Falco shoots is time well spent. I think you'd find much more success by looking at several ways of dealing with lasers, and using PSing when it's appropriate (such as when the laser is poorly spaced and/or can be punished by PSing, or if the Falco is being too comfortable with lasering a lot).

Well the way I see it if lasers were banned Marth would be snuffing falco all day.

on a serious not. I think there is a technical vs Basic part to this game. Marth is one of the least technical characters in the game in comparison to others. So we'll just have to make no mistakes....and hope for the best going forward

 

[Beat!]

Well the way I see it if lasers were banned Marth would be snuffing falco all day.

Absolutely. But being able to - and primarily focusing on - PS lasers with super high consistency would not yield the same results as playing the matchup with lasers banned. The former is an imperfect, albeit good solution to the problem, with flaws that can be exposed if used incorrectly/too often, where as the latter completely removes the actual problem, and lets you put more focus on entirely different aspects without having to worry about it at all.

And I definitely agree that the very basics of every matchup is what we should be looking at at this point.

 

[Archangel]

Absolutely. But being able to - and primarily focusing on - PS lasers with super high consistency would not yield the same results as playing the matchup with lasers banned. The former is an imperfect, albeit good solution to the problem, with flaws that can be exposed if used incorrectly/too often, where as the latter completely removes the actual problem, and lets you put more focus on entirely different aspects without having to worry about it at all.

And I definitely agree that the very basics of every matchup is what we should be looking at at this point.

the basics need to be re-examined and in some ways changed. A low tier mentality is looked at as a joke....but when you think about it as the game leans toward being more technical Marth starts to become more and more vulnerable. As long as the basic technical skill level of characters and players were low Marth dominated for YEARS. Ever since that balance started to tip...look at what has happened. I am not saying Marth is a low tier by any means.

if you look at every character as a ratio of basic and technical. I'd say Marth's ratio of Basic skill is very high but his technical skill is mid level at best. Yoshi's Basic skill is much lower but his technical abilities are MUCH higher but individually and in comparison to Marth. Granted it is very very difficult to master technical skill in comparison to basic skills once the technical skills are master characters with high tech abilities start to come out on top. Characters originally assumed under Marth like Peach for example are starting to cap out ahead of him do to technical abilities.

I don't feel Marth can compete with the more technical direction of the game. No use debating it he can't do it...it's fact. What he can do is Master the basics as well as the universal tech abilities. Not just power shielding but Shield DI, Spacing...Baiting...etc.... This is the direction Marth should be going in.

 

[Beat!]

Why would you necessarily want to "compete" with the oodles of tech skill some other characters can put to use? The fact that a lot of Marths fundamentals don't require hyper fast, complex button inputs to function properly should be a good thing. Or at least not a bad one. Marth will probably never win a tech skill video contest, but that doesn't stop him from being able to chaingrab spacies to death. Peach being a more technical character overall doesn't mean she's necessarily a better character.

 

[danieljosebatista]

I agree with spam about powershielding. If marth can position himself well and powershield lasers even semi consistently, it becomes much easier to get in on falco. Also as far as tech skill goes, marth still requires it. Knowing when to wd out of a dtilt's iasa frames or using effective oos options is just as important to marth as shine pressure is to spacies. I think umbreon said it best "the definition of tech skill is doing exactly what you want to do exactly how and when you mean to do it, otherwise why are you doing it?"

 

[Beat!]

If marth can position himself well and powershield lasers even semi consistently, it becomes much easier to get in on falco.

Yeah, I completely agree with that, and have never argued against it, so you're agreeing with me as well =D. What I disagree with is the notion that 100% consistent powershielding would be the One solution to lasers and everything that comes with them.

Also as far as tech skill goes, marth still requires it

Never disagreed with this either, but it's not to the same degree as some of the things characters like Fox and Yoshi can do. 's all I'm saying.
What I WAS trying to say was that "Marth can't compete with a lot of characters in terms of tech skill" isn't necessarily bad.

 

[Niko45]

It takes tech skill to keep up with tech skill. You need to be as comfortable being shield pressured as they are shield pressuring you. Stuff like that is really overlooked.

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, definitely. I'm just saying that not having an equivalent to multishining execution wise doesn't make him an inferior character.

Edit: change of word choice

 

[danieljosebatista]

I get what you're saying, beat. *sigh* more work for marth to do