Which mid-low tier charcter has the most potential?

[Ripple]

I'll tell you guys right now that until people start using side-b with DK. he won't move anywhere but down.

I've just found out some cool stuff with it and it *can* lead to guaranteed kills but its a little tricky. if DK players can get it down, it'll be amazing and completely change at least the match up with Sheik and Falcon. possibly marth and ganon

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've experimented a lot with DK, because I main him in 64.


I use Side-B when the situation warrants it, but I've never found anything even slightly metagame changing, care to elaborate?

 

[Ripple]

I've experimented a lot with DK, because I main him in 64.


I use Side-B when the situation warrants it, but I've never found anything even slightly metagame changing, care to elaborate?

I'm going to write a guide on what to do in the DK forums in the near future, I'll link you to it when I finish it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

<3

I have to mention Pichu, its obligatory. People don't know about his Agility mind-games.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

According to Youtube, he only plays against two no-name players over a year ago.

I like his use of down smash though.

he never gets recorded, so that's why. try searching him on smashboards.

also two years ago lol

i started using dk for the same reason btw. up-b is so good.

 

[KingofCereal]

I main DK. I like DK. I think his tier position is just right. It's high enough that people that don't play DK are confused, but I don't think he can go higher. Especially because I think Pikachu has some serious untapped potential.

 

[Spyro]

@KingofCereal: I think most of Pikachu potential has been tapped. I think the only potential he has left is possibly a better match up with Sheik. He does belong in the C tier though IMO.

 

[KingofCereal]

How to say... Pikachu's potential has been revealed, unlocked, tapped. Axe has shown the world just what can be done. But on a larger scale Pika has not stepped up to that potential. Probably doesn't need to move places either.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i feel like GW probably has the most potential that hasn't been seen on a more public scale.

idk if he should be moved up on the tier list or anything, but i feel like that character can do things that i haven't seen it do.

edit: also, i'd take docs recovery over luigis any day. pills make edgeguarding doc so much harder than it should be sometimes.

 

[Fregadero]

Phone lag inspired double post plz ignore

 

[Fregadero]

What? You don't think Marth could be better? It'll just take a really good play, like Sethlon with Roy, or Vman/Leffen with Yoshi, to bring him out of his pitiful placing.

I think Marth is going to continue to stagnate unless someone very talented (who could probably do better with another character of theirs) or some with a new and effective playstyle really starts breathing life into the character.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE that. I'm still pretty new/bad and having a player that compete at the top (I feel m2k's Marth falls under the "has better characters") would be great.

Although I think a SUPER patient/conservative/campy marth could get the job done.

 

[Divinokage]

Im already experimenting with Marth stuff, maybe Ill be able to break it out with him.

 

[Jockmaster]

I **** ride Ice a lot on these boards, but seriously if any Marth has the potential to break out it's his imo

 

[KingofCereal]

I like how this discussion has gone from "mid-low tier characters with potential" to Marth. Marth is far from mid-low, and is a great character. I have a feeling he will be relegated to the bench from here on out though. As a secondary that can and will still pull out wins. Look at M2K's Zenith play for an example of what I mean. He switched up Shiek and Marf. Ultimately PP figured out how to beat M2K's Marf, but it did take a while, and it did require PP to try Marf too. Marf is too good to be called crap.

 

[VGmasta]

NOT Dr Mario...

His hitboxes aren't big enough to keep up. Especially his aerials.
His ground game is tight; nice smash attacks and a good grab game.
But his movement in the air is too slow, and his aerials are beaten too easily.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If a character moves up in a revolutionary manner, it's probably not gonna be something like DK or Young Link because those kinds of characters have no shield game and unless you're ludicrously better than the opponent they really do lose to loltechspam by competent space animals. And if you're Fox you're also obligated to throw combo them periodically (which isn't really loltechspam but it blends in pretty easily).

As a side note, I don't consider Young Link being better than Link (IMHO) much of an accomplishment. Link and Young Link are still freaking terrible.

 

[Divinokage]

The only char I can see do well is G&W out of the lower tier I think. Link and YL, they already did well in the past.. now it's pretty much abysmal lol. But I'd still be willing to MM with Link. =P

Downthrow techchase Up-B.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox Link MM Kage?

 

[Divinokage]

**** off, how about non-top tier vs Link. =)

Ill do vs your Fox with Marth or Falcon but not my ****ty tier omg no..

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach is as low as I'm gonna go.

Sheik Fox and Peach are the only characters I really find fun for more than like 10 minutes.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya but I'm not going to throw my money away. I need to have a chance to have a fun MM.

 

[ViperGold42]

Oh my god this joke is so old and yet it made me laugh.

OHHH HELL YEAH The Kaze strikes again.

 

[Bing]

Ya but I'm not going to throw my money away. I need to have a chance to have a fun MM.

You mean like your Ness ditto at STYC 3?

 

[Divinokage]

Hm? I had a chance to beat him, that's different. I failed my recoveries pretty bad though, lol.

 

[PGH Carroll]

yoshis reallllllly baddddd dudes.

on topic. i think luigi.

 

[ruhtraeel]

3 underrated characters: Luigi, Roy, G&W.

Luigi is good.
Roy has Marth stuff which makes him useable like grab/cuonter/side-b, and a fast SHFFL
G&W ***** floaties

 

[Doser]

I'm gonna say Pikachu, I know axe has done a lot but from what I can see pikachu seems like it can go farther than all of the other mid tiers besides doc possibly. I think if more good players used pikachu we could at least see different perspectives.

@Doser: lol?

I can't believe you don't understand that posting to tell people you are going to make a post later is just **** posting. How can you be this stupid?

 

[ruhtraeel]

G&W seriously ***** lots of people. Huge hitboxes with disjoints and one of the best jabs in the game. Long *** recovery, high priority, etc. He's like a low tier marth. He has all the killing potential he needs, great edgeguarding, great throws although a suck grab range

Roy also has Marth stuff and is faster. So he'll probably never be as good as certain characters unlike g&w but he is still better than a lot of people think.

IMO them two should be at least DK tier,possibly link tier. I think they can hold their own against high tiers much better than Kirby, bowser, dk, pichu, Zelda, and both links.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Doser wasn't even talking about Roy/G&W... Were you annoyed that no one was arguing with you?

What is so good about G&W's jab? Also his shield is awful. Also his approach is predictable and unsafe. Also he is feather-weight. You can't just look at a character's strengths.

 

[The Star King]

Players are predictable, not characters.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Semantics. Game & Watch has fewer safe approach options than many other characters, making it easier to predict the player using him.

 

[The Star King]

I'm not sure I agree (if comparing G&W to other low tiers), but I don't want to argue because it'll turn into us both throwing out vague general statements about the character to try and cover up the fact that we actually don't know much about the character (relative to the higher tiers) despite us trying to pretend we do - the way low tier discussion always works in Melee Discussion

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Agree to disagree then, I'm fine with that .

 

[ruhtraeel]

I was arguing more for the sake of trying to legit bump him up on the tier list

OK yeah his approach isn't that good but you can always do any aerial to jab

And his featheriness helps him not get ***** as hard as someone like DK

 

[j00t]

What is so good about G&W's jab? Also his shield is awful. Also his approach is predictable and unsafe. Also he is feather-weight. You can't just look at a character's strengths.

Isn't the point of this thread to find strengths in weaker characters to bring out their "potential"? I'm pretty sure that's what this thread is about. But according to Doser I'm an idiot so I don't know any better.

I think G&W has potential because one of his main weaknesses (lack of shield) can be overcome with good use of his tilts, specifically his utilt. This move is a key defensive tool for beating a fox or falco nair/dair on the spot. It requires better spacing than, say, Marth utilt, but it can lead into more utilts or even a grab, which is one of G&W's greatest strengths.

@Grim Tuesday: G&W's jab is a great tool to interrupt moves that you couldn't interrupt otherwise, and it's main use is that it leads into a grab. G&W's grab game is seriously really good, and the more chances you get to grab an opponent, the better.

I think the main thing holding G&W back is his susceptibility to combos and techchasing. He gets ****ed up hard by these. His tech options are awful, he gets comboed really easily, and he dies really early. His recovery also isn't the best... it goes a good distance but you can hit him out of it pretty easily.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If you have a character with one good move who is bad at everything else, you can't say he has "potential" because of that one good move.

Game & Watch is AWFUL defensively (shield, rolls, tech-rolls and weight) and his offensive abilities certainly aren't on-par with the top tier and most of upper mid tier.

 

[j00t]

I'm not claiming that utilt is his only good move, i'm saying that utilt and his other tilts can be used to overcome one of his main defensive flaws, which means that he has potential to be better than he appears to be.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I didn't mean for my example to have any correlation to up tilt.

 

[Tee ay eye]

marth

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'm not sure I agree (if comparing G&W to other low tiers), but I don't want to argue because it'll turn into us both throwing out vague general statements about the character to try and cover up the fact that we actually don't know much about the character (relative to the higher tiers) despite us trying to pretend we do - the way low tier discussion always works in Melee Discussion

HAHAHAHAHA this post is so perfect