Where do you think Peach belongs on the tier list?

[JFox]

I know a lot of peach players that feel that Peach doesn't deserve to be as high as she is, and that once you learn how to exploit her weaknesses, she is actually a very easy character to beat. It seems like Peach players are few and far between nowadays, and that she is really getting outclassed by the top tiers.

I'd like to know where Peach mains believe she belongs in the tier list, and why. Please include who you think should be above her and why, what her strong points and weak points are, what her matchups are like, etc. Please keep in mind that in a tournament set, counterpick stages do play a crucial role, and how this helps or hurts Peach.

Please don't just come in here and throw around your opinion. Use some kind of argument, or simply don't post.

 

[Fubudis]

I'm by no means a pro player but peach, being my main, seems to to well, but not great against the higher tiers. What makes peach nice against fox, falco, and shiek are the fact that they're fast fallers, making comboing and %60+ Down Smashes common. Marth, on the other hand, has range, speed, and priority over peach making the matchup tough. (for me) In addition, the sheer speed of the top four really makes peach a defensive character unless you are comboing.
There's something to be said for her dash attacks as well which do help compensate for her mediocre speed.

All in all, I think she's placed somewhat fairly on the tier list.

 

[TheGeneral]

I believe that peach belongs where she is on the tier list. I think that if you look at who the top tiers are (aside from peach), you see that they all have amazing ground speed and relatively quick aerials.

Peach has amazingly slow ground speed (for things like dd-ing and wd-ing) phasing out some of great fake out tactics that are crucial (or at least ubiquitous ) in high level play. She does however have the ability to float cancel, giving here greatly increased air speed over almost every character. When I say air-speed I mean the ability to shuffle or aerials or at least spam them quickly.

Now, I don't know a whole lot about the match-ups between the high tiers and peach (mainly because the people I play with seldom use them in singles against my peach). However, I've played marths and I see the great advantage he has over Peach is his range/speed with all of his aerials but especially fair. It simply eats up Peach's approaches. Peach's quickest aerials, nair and bair, just can't match up to marths. I'm discounting fair because of its start-up but perhaps if you had good spacing you could approach with it.

Now, spacing brings up a point that I've already made. Good spacing is facilitated by having a fast land speed which characters such as fox, falco, sheik, and marth have (also captain fggt). So, the burden of spacing lies solely in the Peach's ability to camp well, draw out attack and punish extremely effectively because she simply can't out dd the above characters.

Now, I'm going to take a break from saying why peach is below the other 4 (Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth) and why she is above everyone else. Peach's d-smash absolutely ***** a good portion of the cast (ex. IC's). This isn't my only argument but I think it's a good starting point. Obviously a good opponent with someone like IC's is going to avoid getting d-smashed at all costs, but that looming threat will affect their play style which I believe is something in your favor. Now, when I play other low tiers, I see that it's natural for people to cc a lot with them or use their d-smashes (ex. Samus, Yoshi) because they're good moves. But again when playing peach you have to weigh the risk of cc-ing one of her d-smashes against using other attacks. Peach can also keep up with many of the low tiers in sheer speed more effectively (she runs about as fast as most of them) and can certainly keep up with their aerials. Because she has better mobility, she is able to play more games with her opponents and I believe that it's easier to turnip camp (because you're opponent can't just run up to you and nair you as if he were a fox or marth).

As a final point, I'd like to say that because Peach is slower than the tiers above her, she is forced to camp in shield more, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but then you have to be much more aware of the shield stun that you are getting from your opponents attacks and your jump lag (I mean her initial jump, not like a djc). Ideally, peach can negate a lot of lag by djc out of sheild from your opponents laggy moves. I can't do this consistently, so it doesn't factor into my analysis. On the other hand, your foxes, falcoes, Marths etc. have more options from the shield such as reliable shield grab ranges and shines. I think that all of these factors together just put the odds in favor of the top four in match-ups against peach. And I also believe that the same factors when taken into account for the lower tiers push, Peach above them.

If any of this is confusing, or you think I'm flat out wrong, feel free to let me know. This is mostly from my own experience but obviously, there are things I've picked up from better players than myself, too.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Well TheGeneral brings up valid points. I do feel, that despite Peach's many faults, she dserves to be where she is. Peach can be gimped, as JFox mentioned once you learn out to exploit her weaknesses, but any good player knows their own character's weakness, too. Peach has crazy priority on her aerials and despite how she may match up against...say Fox or Marth, she can still make use of her amazing abilities.

In reality, Peach's worst nightmare is Fox, by far. Reason being is that a smart Fox won't leave any openings for Peach to punish him for. Marth, albeit a small one, does have the advantage over Peach in a matchup. However, a good Peach can make use of her CP, and also her ability to force Marth into approaching her. The matchup seems like a nightmare, at first, but in reality, it's just avoiding the ability to get baited into Marth's juggling. Sheik, although hard at times, can be won out by baiting and punishing. It all comes down, once again, to how smart a Peach plays. Falco, is the most debatable of her matches in the top 4. The reason being, is because most Falco players believe that it's an even match up. It truly is, though. and in some cases, a Peach can have the advantage. Peach can utterly **** a Falco that does not make proper spacing with his Dairs into shine. The lower the better for Falco. Also, Peach's upB OOS, can limit a Falco's ability to apply the shield pressure and approach with his Shine. However, again, if a Peach doesn't play smart, she can fall prey to lasers and shines. Falco can combo Peach pretty well.

Other characters- The part that does get me, however...is how Peach can struggle with lower Tier characters. Y. Link can be a horrid time, as well as Link. Zelda can cut off Peach's turnip game, Bowser can also be a major issue. Again, all can be overcome with smarts.


The top 3 characters shift back and forth because of their ability and priority. However, Falco, like Peach, can be gimped very easily, and earned their spots in the top 5 through development and sheer exploitation of their good points. Peach has plenty of them as mentioned by TheGeneral.

Her ability to FC and DJC give her an edge over what would seem like insurmountable odds towards other characters. FC and turnips give her a nasty edge guarding game. As sadi by Eggm, a fame- perfect Pillar will hold a character in place until a.) the shield breaks, or b.) the Peach player messes up. (lol, I should get AR and start practicing that.) Peach's air game is so dangerous, and a good DI can keep her alive to ridiculous %, against even Fox/Marth. She has the ability to Chaingrab most characters. (Dthrow works wonders on floaties, though if you feel I'm wrong..feel free to correct me.)

Counter Picking- Peach has a good variety of levels for her CP. The strange thing about her is that most people will ban a neutral stage, (usually it's DL64) leaving many other options open for her CP. MOST of the CP stages work to her advantage and a smart CP will win the day for Peach. Mute city is by far the most widely used CP for Peach, and it works well. It limits characters greatly, especially those who like to sweetspot edges. Poke' Floats is another great CP for those annoying Fox/Falco mains. (careful of their secondaries, though) Japes is another amazing CP stage that can work well in Peach's favor. Of course some of the neutral stages work great for CP's aw well but a good use of mixing in those is also part of Peach's game. The ability to CP well with Peach, due to her versatility in styles puts Peach where she is.

Teams- Now I know that JFox didn't mention this, but Peach is also an amazing teams character. She works well with other characters, (herself included) and can switch roles of being an aggressor or stock holder. In a 2 on 1 situation, Peach is solid and does extremely well. Making use of her quick aerials and her Dsmash, peach can turn a game around rather quickly. Her turnips...though potentially harmful to her partner, can easily be one of the greater assets of the team. A good turnip game, and knowing when and when not to use them will make or break a matchup. Peach is also good for helping other partners recover.

Recovery- Peach has one of the best recoveries in the game. She's got a good sense of versatility and because she's so light she can approach high or low with ease. Her second jump and ability to float can make what seems like even the most impossible recoveries possible. True, when you're are reduced to solely the parasol, you can be gimped, but a lot of times those situations can be avoided. She also has her wall bombing technique which can be greatly assisting.

Turnip game- This can make or break a peach, and although a good turnip game can be done without...it's just not good to not have a turnip game. Sastopher made use of Peach's turnips especially in times of needing to win. JFox has a nasty turnip game and uses it to his advantage, especially in Peach dittos. Turnips can throw a person's game off entirely, too. Especially if you have a Stitchface or Bob-omb. A turnip can also, turn a match around with those same two turnips, or even a beady eyes or beam saber. A great peach will have have a good mixup of a technical and turnip game. Peach's turnips are essential to her being where she is in the Tier list.


I don't think I need to mention the Dsmash...it's the most feared weapon in Peach's arsenal. So I'll leave it at that. There are plenty of good things about Peach that puts her where she should be on the list. I'm sure if I missed something...which I probably did, someone else will bring it out. Peach, is in no way as amazing as Fox/Marth/Sheik, but she deserves to be where she is. Despite her many flaws, and the horrid frustration that many, if not all Peach players get when all that hard work is put to shame by a campy fox that sneaks in Drillshine -> Usmash or Uair Uthrow. Lower level Peach players also have issues with overcoming the waveshine happy Foxes that are needlessly aggro.


I know I'm not a great Peach player, but I've seen a lot, studied a lot and have had my own experiences. I hope that some will take what I say seriously...and not just overlook it.

 

[Samochan]

Peach imo, is worse than c.falcon and about the same as jiggs on tier list. On pal version however she has bit better matchups in overall, so she'd place where she is now on the ntsc list. But considering she goes even with jiggs and good falcon can destroy peach, she'd deserve one place lower on the ntsc list. Peach really shines on teams however and should be used more often. Fox/Sheik + Peach is awesome team.

 

[Kouryuu]

Fox + Peach is an amazing team (the best IMO).

Peach is perfect on the tier list IMO.

Also, regarding Samo's comment on Falcon vs Peach, that match up is 50/50... if not 55/45 Falcon. Falcon does NOT **** Peach. Peach can be just as mean to Falcon as Falcon can be to Peach. Peach is also a better character than Falcon. So there is no way Falcon should be above her.

So yeah, she fits fine in the current list.

 

[Samochan]

Fox + Peach is an amazing team (the best IMO).

Peach is perfect on the tier list IMO.

Also, regarding Samo's comment on Falcon vs Peach, that match up is 50/50... if not 55/45 Falcon. Falcon does NOT **** Peach. Peach can be just as mean to Falcon as Falcon can be to Peach. Peach is also a better character than Falcon. So there is no way Falcon should be above her.

So yeah, she fits fine in the current list.

Eh, m2k agrees with me on the notion that falcon > peach and that good falcon can demolish peach so I doubt my opinion of the matchup is completely unfounded. <_< But it's always debatable, so yea. I have to say that she doesn't have advantage over falcon though, he's just way too quick for her to keep up, which is her biggest problem as she's slow. He can also combo her way and back, kill her easily from those combos and keep himself from getting into bad places by abusing his agility and pressuring. Turnips don't work either, since he can just dash and be on your nose before you can get one out and then he just nairs and blocks the turnip if you actually manage to throw it. His aerial game, especially stomp is simply nasty against peach, she's hard pressed to try and protect herself against quick stomps from above that set up well for combos too.

 

[XIF]

Please don't just come in here and throw around your opinion. Use some kind of argument, or simply don't post.

I think peach, CF, and IC's are fairly interchangeable on the tier list.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Kouryuu]

Eh, m2k agrees with me on the notion that falcon > peach and that good falcon can demolish peach so I doubt my opinion of the matchup is completely unfounded. <_< But it's always debatable, so yea. I have to say that she doesn't have advantage over falcon though, he's just way too quick for her to keep up, which is her biggest problem as she's slow. He can also combo her way and back, kill her easily from those combos and keep himself from getting into bad places by abusing his agility and pressuring. Turnips don't work either, since he can just dash and be on your nose before you can get one out and then he just nairs and blocks the turnip if you actually manage to throw it. His aerial game, especially stomp is simply nasty against peach, she's hard pressed to try and protect herself against quick stomps from above that set up well for combos too.

I personally think Peach is better overall, especially when you compare both of their match ups and see how well both characters do against the eight tournament viable characters ( 9 if you consider Samus tournament viable lol).

But of course, she's not THAT much better. Just enough to be above Falcon.

I also agree that Falcon will tear apart Peach if the Peach doesn't know the match up. But it's fairly even (with maybe Falcon having the slight advantage) IMO.

 

[Europhoria]

6th

Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco
Jiggs
Peach

Her lack of ability to get really stupid gimps like everyone above her sucks. Her blistering speed hurts her ability to approach as well as combo and tech chase. Her crappy grab range hurts her too. A lot of characters can really abuse that vs. her.

She however, does have oodles of priority (4th in the game IMO), a sexy recovery, some good shield pressure options and sexy edgeguards.

Counter picking, I think she's limited to Mute City and Brinstar because everyone has a Fox now. If she goes to Japes, Floats, etc. She's going to get camped and *****.

 

[JFox]

I'm going to make the argument that Peach deserves to be a bit higher than Falcon on the tiers. First lets look at her matchups and compare them to characters around her level.

Now admittedly, Peach does horrible versus the top tiers. Fox Math and Sheik are her worst matchups, easily. But if you take a look at how she does versus some lower characters, she actually looks pretty good. She does pretty good versus Falco. She ***** IC's and DK. She holds her own versus the marios and luigi, she goes about even with Jiggs and Samus, she holds her own versus ganon and falcon. Really the only characters that make her look bad would be the top 3.

Now lets take a look at Falcon's matchups. Falcon gets ***** by the Fox, Falco, and Sheik. Yes, there are falcons that can do quite well versus SOME foxes, versus SOME Falcos, but you don't see people like Darkrain beating KDJ, M2k, PC, etc. just like ya don't see Vidjo beating those people either. Falcon has about the same advantage against marth as Peach does against Falco. Falcon does decently versus the higher tiers also. He keeps up with jiggs, and Peach, and kinda ***** versus Samus. ICs is probably in falcons advantage. He does fine versus the marios, luigi, and DK.

really it looks so far like Falcon and Peach are pretty similar in terms of matchups. So what gives Peach the edge? Counterpicks. Peach is a character that benefits significantly from counterpick stages. If you ban Brinstar, they go Mute. If you ban mute, they go brinstar. Its a lose lose. Unless she is fighting Jiggs, she almost always wins round 2 (so long as the players are at least close in skill level) simply because she can pick a gay stage. Falcon doesn't do this nearly as well. Sure Falcon can go to brinstar, but he doesn't really excel there. He doesn't really excel anywhere. He has to stay on neutrals for the most part, and gets pretty gayed by a lot of stages.

I really feel that having a Peach as a secondary is worth a lot more than having a Falcon. He doesn't **** anyone significantly enough that you would ever really counterpick him, and he doesn't have good enough stages to even be worth trying out R2.

I really feel that the counterpick stages give peach enough of an edge that she is slightly better than Falcon.

 

[Samochan]

There's a fact though that on some tournaments there is no counterpick options available. And even if there were, it's not simply so that you can pick a stage and opponent can do nothing about it. They ban mute city and if you pick brinstar, they can go sheik/falcon (Really, about all the good players who play fox/falco can also play sheik and falcon, not forgetting marth since they don't have any technical limits from playing as fox. I doubt peki's an anomaly in this case and if he is, then I'm lucky to have him as training partner). Then if you pick DK64, they use sheik again. Space animal + sheik combo really undones peach's counterpick advantages and sheik is fairly easy to do the basic things with as well, not to mention simple dthrow tilts fairs and uairs to kill.

It's more important to have a character that can do really well on neutral stages than counterpicks, since if you win the first match which is on neutral stage, opponent can cp and if you win, good for you. But if you lose, now it's your turn to cp some stage that's really advantageous to you and there's a good chance you win this one. Peach can win second matches all she wants, but if she can't handle neutral stages or other char's cp stages, she's in trouble.

Bum also disagrees with you about peach ****** DK. Last time I checked he was the one owning peaches left and right, the matchup is not a breeze just like against bowser it isn't. Up b out of shield is deadly. Sure the matchup is in her advantage, but total ****? No.

I also think peach vs IC is a bit overrated. Peach can separate them and do real nasty things, but if you use your best choice of weapon for dividing them (aka dsmash) too much, they eventually get those openings for their grab and bam, dead peach more often than not. Double smashes can kill her really easily too. So peach can't just breeze the matchup either and has to play a careful game, not leaving any openings for ic's.

 

[Kouryuu]

Most of what Jfox said about Peachs match ups is wrong LMAO.

Samo is right about a good number of points she's making about Peach's match ups. Oh, and DK vs Peach is something like 55/45 Peach. It's only a slight advantage lol. It's NOT **** like Samo said.

Seriously though, I don't know why you guys are discussing something that has already been discussed. Peach being below Falcon or above isn't going to change what kind of character she is. The current tier isn't gonna change either. I personally think Peach is fine where she is.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

She however, does have oodles of priority (4th in the game IMO), a sexy recovery, some good shield pressure options and sexy edgeguards.

Who's above her? (IYO) I can only think of marth and prolly sheik aswell. Im prolly forgetting someone obvious tho lol

 

[Europhoria]

Marth, Sheik, Fox... in that order.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Falcon can be gimped very easily with his recovery, and because of his weight, at times it doesn't take much to break it. Peach has more options, and can also **** Falcon's recovery. Again, referring back to my previous post and her edge guarding game. I've also seen XIF just **** a Falcon's recovery, as have I. I will agree that the matchup is even...if not slightly in C. Falcon's favor. However the fact remains that their matchup alone doesn't make it so Falcon is higher up on the Tier list. Also, the DK thing...I think DK ***** Falcon much harder than DK can beat Peach.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach sucks hahahahahaha

edit: I think she gets ***** harder by Fox than Falcon does though.

Also, her edgeguarding sucks.

 

[NES n00b]

Falcon can be gimped very easily with his recovery, and because of his weight, at times it doesn't take much to break it. Peach has more options, and can also **** Falcon's recovery. Again, referring back to my previous post and her edge guarding game. I've also seen XIF just **** a Falcon's recovery, as have I. I will agree that the matchup is even...if not slightly in C. Falcon's favor. However the fact remains that their matchup alone doesn't make it so Falcon is higher up on the Tier list. Also, the DK thing...I think DK ***** Falcon much harder than DK can beat Peach.

Falcon beats DK.....even if it is a harder matchup for Falcon it shouldn't really matter since Falcon beats him anyway.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why are we discussing DK like he's an important character hahahaha

 

[Rain(ame)]

Falcon beats DK.....even if it is a harder matchup for Falcon it shouldn't really matter since Falcon beats him anyway.

*nods* okay, he beats DK. (recognition of the correction with no disrespect) You did say it, though, she has an easier time beating him, though.

KirbyKaze, I said it already that Fox ***** Peach. If anyone doesn't know that...there's something wrong in the world. Still, as good as C. Falcon is, I think Peach's overall matchups are more in her favor than him. Edge guarding plays a huge role in that. However, we ALL know how amazing C. Falcon is, xD.

 

[JFox]

There's a fact though that on some tournaments there is no counterpick options available. And even if there were, it's not simply so that you can pick a stage and opponent can do nothing about it. They ban mute city and if you pick brinstar, they can go sheik/falcon (Really, about all the good players who play fox/falco can also play sheik and falcon, not forgetting marth since they don't have any technical limits from playing as fox. I doubt peki's an anomaly in this case and if he is, then I'm lucky to have him as training partner). Then if you pick DK64, they use sheik again. Space animal + sheik combo really undones peach's counterpick advantages and sheik is fairly easy to do the basic things with as well, not to mention simple dthrow tilts fairs and uairs to kill.

It's more important to have a character that can do really well on neutral stages than counterpicks, since if you win the first match which is on neutral stage, opponent can cp and if you win, good for you. But if you lose, now it's your turn to cp some stage that's really advantageous to you and there's a good chance you win this one. Peach can win second matches all she wants, but if she can't handle neutral stages or other char's cp stages, she's in trouble.

Bum also disagrees with you about peach ****** DK. Last time I checked he was the one owning peaches left and right, the matchup is not a breeze just like against bowser it isn't. Up b out of shield is deadly. Sure the matchup is in her advantage, but total ****? No.

I also think peach vs IC is a bit overrated. Peach can separate them and do real nasty things, but if you use your best choice of weapon for dividing them (aka dsmash) too much, they eventually get those openings for their grab and bam, dead peach more often than not. Double smashes can kill her really easily too. So peach can't just breeze the matchup either and has to play a careful game, not leaving any openings for ic's.

LOL, what are you talking about? I happen to know Bum HATES Peach vs DK more than any other matchup in this game. (I've actually played him too, and heard him say it in person, lol) The matchup is pretty lame. Peach edgegaurds him with Dair Nair combo and so he can't live too long. She shield stabs DK's shield really easy, and her turnip game and combo ability are really good vs DK. Unless DK gets a grab, he has a hard time getting anything going vs peach. Sure he can uthrow Uair her once he gets that grab, but he does that to everyone.

Also Peach is def much better than Sheik and Falcon on Brinstar IMO. And forcing people to go there secondaries def gives u a leg up. I'm not tryin to say it's an auto win, but there's no denying that it certainly makes the second match an easier one. Many people will even john and say that Peach or Jiggs are gay because they only need to win 1 neutral in order to win a set, LOL. I dont think you can really discredit the power of counterpick stages. Again, I'm not gonna say its an auto-win, but its certainly a nice thing advantage.

Edit: Oh and KirbyKaze, Peach's edgegaurding does not suck AT ALL. She def has a better edgegaurd than Falcon, who half the time ends up killing himself trying to go off stage and kill his opponent, only to get his lame *** recovery *****. IMO her edgegaurding is about as good as Foxes.

 

[Europhoria]

LOL, what are you talking about? I happen to know Bum HATES Peach vs DK more than any other matchup in this game. (I've actually played him too, and heard him say it in person, lol) The matchup is pretty lame. Peach edgegaurds him with Dair Nair combo and so he can't live too long. She shield stabs DK's shield really easy, and her turnip game and combo ability are really good vs DK. Unless DK gets a grab, he has a hard time getting anything going vs peach. Sure he can uthrow Uair her once he gets that grab, but he does that to everyone.

Also Peach is def much better than Sheik and Falcon on Brinstar IMO. And forcing people to go there secondaries def gives u a leg up. I'm not tryin to say it's an auto win, but there's no denying that it certainly makes the second match an easier one. Many people will even john and say that Peach or Jiggs are gay because they only need to win 1 neutral in order to win a set, LOL. I dont think you can really discredit the power of counterpick stages. Again, I'm not gonna say its an auto-win, but its certainly a nice thing advantage.

Edit: Oh and KirbyKaze, Peach's edgegaurding does not suck AT ALL. She def has a better edgegaurd than Falcon, who half the time ends up killing himself trying to go off stage and kill his opponent, only to get his lame *** recovery *****. IMO her edgegaurding is about as good as Foxes.

PKM told me a while back he thinks DK vs. Peach is about even. I think it favours Peach, but not by much. Like a 55/45 deal.
Her edge guarding isn't close to Fox's amazingly broken edge guards. If the Falcon is always killing himself, well that's more of Scar then Falcon (<3 Scar). You can edge guard the cast normally without running off into Falcon Punch. I don't feel enough of a difference the edge guarding between the 2, mostly because Falcon actually has the ability to just knee and watch them actually die off the side.
Brinstar... Peach can run into a few super homo scenarios there (vs. Ganon, vs. Jiggs).

 

[KirbyKaze]

IMO her edgegaurding is about as good as Foxes.

You're very silly then.

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Meh, Peach is fine on the tier list as it is. No higher, no lower. Obviously not as good as the top 4, but the match-ups aren't hopeless or anything. ^_^

 

[Exco]

IMO, peach is slightly better than C. Falcon. Now I'm no pro with peach but I do main with her and from my experience peach's chain grabs and edge guarding against Falcon is enough to make her better. From what I've noticed, after 35% damage peach can chain grab Falcon to about 100% damage and her ability to edge guard him off the stage is ridiculous. Personally, I know good Falcons will prevent being grabbed but once they do, its really hard to escape. Hopefully, I'm not the only one to use this strategy. Either that, or I haven't played enough really good Falcons -_-'

 

[Kouryuu]

Meh, Peach is fine on the tier list as it is. No higher, no lower. Obviously not as good as the top 4, but the match-ups aren't hopeless or anything. ^_^

EXACTLY

Peach ONLY gets ***** by Fox and Marth...

Sheik has the solid advantage but it's not **** like Fox or Marth.

She does fairly well against Faclo (it's slightly in Peach's favor IMO).

She goes about even with Falcon and Puff.

She ***** IC's.

As for the rest of the roster, Peach either goes even with them or has SOME sort of advantage.

LOL, what are you talking about? I happen to know Bum HATES Peach vs DK more than any other matchup in this game. (I've actually played him too, and heard him say it in person, lol) The matchup is pretty lame. Peach edgegaurds him with Dair Nair combo and so he can't live too long. She shield stabs DK's shield really easy, and her turnip game and combo ability are really good vs DK. Unless DK gets a grab, he has a hard time getting anything going vs peach. Sure he can uthrow Uair her once he gets that grab, but he does that to everyone.

Peach has the slight advantage.

Also Peach is def much better than Sheik and Falcon on Brinstar IMO. And forcing people to go there secondaries def gives u a leg up. I'm not tryin to say it's an auto win, but there's no denying that it certainly makes the second match an easier one. Many people will even john and say that Peach or Jiggs are gay because they only need to win 1 neutral in order to win a set, LOL. I dont think you can really discredit the power of counterpick stages. Again, I'm not gonna say its an auto-win, but its certainly a nice thing advantage.

Peach v Falcon is downright EVEN on Brinstar (maybe slightly to Peach... maybe). When the lava is down, Falcon ***** all over the stage. When the lava is up, that's where Peach shines cuz Falcon has no room to move.

As for Sheik... Sheik has the advantage over Peach on that stage like she does on pretty much ANY stage (save for Mute City because.. it's Sheik lol). Sheik can do pretty much anything she needs to on that stage. If you were thinking that lava is what gives Peach the advantage, then you're dead wrong. Sheik can stall with Vanish and wait the lava out. But even then, the lava doesn't give Peach much of an advantage, if not at all. It's hard for Peach to approach (and even harder to space) Sheik when she has little room to move and her only way of getting around when the lava is up, is by floating...

IMO her edgegaurding is about as good as Foxes.

LMAO!

 

[JFox]

Wow, you guys must not be so good at edgeguarding with Peach LOL. She really has the same limitations and advantages as Fox does for the most part.

Against spacies, they both have to guess when they go into Up B, they both can **** if the person forward Bs. Against Marth they can both take ledge and try to force marth onto the stage and punish. Peach has turnips, Fox has shinespikes, they can both use the light shield trick well. Against Sheik, Peach has Dsmash and nair to punish the Sheik's laggy up b, while fox typically kills vertical.

Europhoria- no one is talkin about scar, lol. Falcon sucks at edgegaurding, and Scar probably does it better than most falcons. This area has plenty of good Falcons, you just only know of one.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

how the hell could having the opinion that peach has better edgeguarding then fox suggest that you're not good at edgeguarding with peach? If anything, it'd suggest that you're good at edgeguarding with her.

 

[Rain(ame)]

No, I'm agreeing with JFox here, Mike. About Peach's Edgeguarding being as good as Foxes. Peach's Options are amazing, and in some cases, she doesn't even need to get close to you to stop a recovery. I.E. turnips. Her guard against people that like to sweet spot from under the stage is amazing, too, because her Fair hooks under. Any samus that's dumb enough to try and use the extend-o on on the stage while Peach is there is done. soon as they try to come up and sometimes sooner, they can get Dsmash spiked. On top of that, her options are relatively safer than Fox's as well. She can also extend her edgeguarding out MUCH further. in other words, she can Bair a person off screen and then make it back to the stage. Fox can't do that, even though his shine spikes are broken. I'd say Peach's edge guarding is just as good as Fox's. She has more variety and at time, safer option.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Peach's edgeguarding on Marth, Fox, and lack of the broken gimp / edgeguard setups that Fox has makes Fox's edgeguarding overall better.

Fox has a lot of recovery options against Peach. Her amazing Fair that hooks under is techable, so is her D-smash, her Dair is SDIable, and it really just creates a game of "who messes up first" which is never a good situation. Her ledge get-up attack is good, but again it just continues to feed into that game of "who messes up first" and that's not ideal for edgeguarding. I guess if the Fox is badly positioned because of percentage or bad DI then sure but if Fox is recovering high I think he has a lot of stuff to work with and low isn't exactly a death sentence either. Not until Fox like screws up.

Turnip is awesome.

Fox will rarely have any of these issues against himself because of his broken speed, shine spikes, untechable Dair, and the general ease in which he kills things. He misses out on the Turnip stuff, but honestly he's got so much other stuff to make up for it...

I guess if Fox messes up enough then Peach's is equal because some of Fox's timings for offstage stuff are more complicated / harder than just chucking a turnip but oh well learn to press down B offstage better?

 

[Ryan-K]

On the other hand fox has alot more leeway to messup than peach, like even if he misses unless they hit the edge (assuming ur edgeguarding another fox) from above or just plow through you, he can punish with stupid usmash or uthrow -> shenanigans, whereas if peach messes up it's alot harder if not impossible to punish alot of the time

not saying any one is better than the other but I think the ability to make up for mistakes should factor in.

 

[JFox]

I'm sorry, but I can't argue with you people anymore. If you suck at edgeguarding, theres nothing I can say that will convince you. Maybe with a little more recording I'll just show you how easy it is to gimp the **** out of Fox.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wait, you think I'm basing this argument off my edgeguarding with Peach?



I don't even play Peach.

 

[JFox]

Wait, you think I'm basing this argument off my edgeguarding with Peach?



I don't even play Peach.

Yes, I know you don't. Trust me, by the way you talk, its extremely obvious you don't. I even started typing up a response to your ridiculous argument, and than I realized that it really doesn't matter whether or not I can get you to agree with me, because at the end of the day I know that you don't play Peach and that my edgeguarding remains unaffected, so why even bother. As for these others, they have their heads too far up there ***** to even realize that they may not know all there is to know about Peach, and that they could afford to learn a thing or two about the game.

Anyway, I think I'm done with the Peach boards. Theres too many lousy players talkin like they are hot **** knowitalls.

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Hmmm, IMO Fox, Marth, and Sheik's edgeguarding game are better than Peach's, but not by that much. >_< It's just so hard to edge guard Link and Y Link. Any tips?

 

[Kouryuu]

On the other hand fox has alot more leeway to messup than peach, like even if he misses unless they hit the edge (assuming ur edgeguarding another fox) from above or just plow through you, he can punish with stupid usmash or uthrow -> shenanigans, whereas if peach messes up it's alot harder if not impossible to punish alot of the time

not saying any one is better than the other but I think the ability to make up for mistakes should factor in.

This guy gets it.

It's also EASIER to edge guard with Fox than it is for Peach, especially against certain match ups. The only match up that Peach can edge guard better would probably be Sheik.. but that's it. Also, you have to consider the ENTIRE cast when it comes to who has the better edgegaurd, not just spacies.

When you consider all the factors, you'd realize that Fox has the better edgeguard.

Seriously Jfox.. you're not THAT good.

YOU'RE the one who has his head too far up his ***. You post vids of yourself playing in friendlies and ask for advice/criticism and when you get it, you dismiss it as wrong with pathetic reasoning (remember how dumb you sounded on the Shinobi thread LMAO). I know I'm coming off a bit harsh but.. it seems like you just can't accept the fact that you could be wrong. It had to be said dude.

Here's another advice, calm the ego.

Maybe with a little more recording I'll just show you how easy it is to gimp the **** out of Fox.

You gonna upload more vids of yourself playing against a sandbagging Eggm? Okay.

 

[Cia]

i think peach gets ***** by a good Young Link. but not because of edge guarding. once you get them off of the stage, peach can do what ever she wants. especially if they're recovering from above.

short answer - float near him > Nair

oh, and i think peach should be 6th or 7th

Sheik
Fox
Marth
Falco
Falcon
Peach/ Puff
Ice Climbers

not sure who should be higher bet Peach and Puff

 

[JFox]

This guy gets it.

It's also EASIER to edge guard with Fox than it is for Peach, especially against certain match ups. The only match up that Peach can edge guard better would probably be Sheik.. but that's it. Also, you have to consider the ENTIRE cast when it comes to who has the better edgegaurd, not just spacies.

When you consider all the factors, you'd realize that Fox has the better edgeguard.

Seriously Jfox.. you're not THAT good.

YOU'RE the one who has his head too far up his ***. You post vids of yourself playing in friendlies and ask for advice/criticism and when you get it, you dismiss it as wrong with pathetic reasoning (remember how dumb you sounded on the Shinobi thread LMAO). I know I'm coming off a bit harsh but.. it seems like you just can't accept the fact that you could be wrong. It had to be said dude.

Here's another advice, calm the ego.



You gonna upload more vids of yourself playing against a sandbagging Eggm? Okay.

LOL. Money match?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

For people who are arguing that fox has better edgeguarding then peach: what (safe) options does fox have for sweetspotters?
Peach's low floating Bair and Dair cover that very well (dair especially).

I'm not challenging the argument, I'm actually just wondering (so I can improve my own edgeguarding with fox)

Here's another advice, calm the ego.

LOL. Money match?

Uuuhh...
lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

What kind of sweetspot?

If you mean an opposing Fox doing low Firefox, you can ledgehop Dair and proceed from there kind of like Peach. Same with Falco.