When you Mains become Overused

[Los4Muros]

I'm a big Metroid fan. Passed all the games, unlocked all the endings for them. I'm also a big fan of Ocarina of Time, don't need to explain why do I?

Anyway, it really angers me that since Brawl I've been using Zero Suit Samus and Shiek despite their place in the Tier List. In fact, I remember that at first Zero Suit Samus was considered a Mid Tier. Shiek never made it that far. I also use Link and Samus as secondaries, but didn't use them in tournaments cuz I'm not that good like to be winning with Low Tiers.

I was amazed when they announced Zero Suit Samus and Shiek together and from there decided they would be my mains. But now that the game came out, they're overused. They're so OP that everybody wants to take a hand on them and keep using their killer Uairs and Grabs. The other day I was playing with members of a Facebook page and when we started the match he told me: Oh Zero Suit Samus, what a surprise. After that match, I used Shiek and he answered: Enjoy the Top Tier are we?
I've been mad because most are offended of me using those two characters. And can I blame them? The internet is infested with players using them for their easy learning combos, attacks, followups. Lately I've been playing with Villager, Link, Samus and Marth when in For Glory. I just feel bad making use of my main characters from Brawl and Sheik from Melee.

Just wanted to say that.

 

[Doval]

I'm a big Metroid fan. Passed all the games, unlocked all the endings for them. I'm also a big fan of Ocarina of Time, don't need to explain why do I?

Anyway, it really angers me that since Brawl I've been using Zero Suit Samus and Shiek despite their place in the Tier List. In fact, I remember that at first Zero Suit Samus was considered a Mid Tier. Shiek never made it that far. I also use Link and Samus as secondaries, but didn't use them in tournaments cuz I'm not that good like to be winning with Low Tiers.

I was amazed when they announced Zero Suit Samus and Shiek together and from there decided they would be my mains. But now that the game came out, they're overused. They're so OP that everybody wants to take a hand on them and keep using their killer Uairs and Grabs. The other day I was playing with members of a Facebook page and when we started the match he told me: Oh Zero Suit Samus, what a surprise. After that match, I used Shiek and he answered: Enjoy the Top Tier are we?
I've been mad because most are offended of me using those two characters. And can I blame them? The internet is infested with players using them for their easy learning combos, attacks, followups. Lately I've been playing with Villager, Link, Samus and Marth when in For Glory. I just feel bad making use of my main characters from Brawl and Sheik from Melee.

Just wanted to say that.

If anyone gets mad at you for playing a certain character, they're a scrub. Why do you care what scrubs think of you?

If it bothers them so damned much they can go learn how to beat your character, pick up a character that stands a decent chance against them or just grow up.

 

[Kenith]

What I do when my main becomes overused:
- Not care. "overused" is a subjective term generally used by players who don't know how to beat said character.

 

[Los4Muros]

If anyone gets mad at you for playing a certain character, they're a scrub. Why do you care what scrubs think of you?

If it bothers them so damned much they can go learn how to beat your character, pick up a character that stands a decent chance against them or just grow up.

I know I wrong in a way for limiting the use of my mains. But I do understand what they're talking about. Sometimes a Sheik or a Zero Suit Samus against my Link or Samus are hell. Just watching them choose a Low Tier makes reconsider if I'm abusing the advantage that my character has over them. I try to change for the second match, but they obviously leave. But you have a good point.

 

[Ryuji]

I can see the parallels to two other games: MKW and MK8. Both these games have characters which are considered the best statistically when paired with the fastest vehicles in the game. MKW you had an overwhelming number of Funky Kong's riding Flame Runner, and MK8 you pretty much have everyone using Morton and Pipe Frame with Slick wheels. I highly doubt these characters are picked solely because players like them. They simply pick it to bandwagon to the superior combo to have a better chance of winning. You get this all the time. It's one of the things you wish could be different, but happens anyway because it's out of your control. While it is lamentable, this is something we just have to live with.
However, from what you've said, you truly enjoy using ZSS and Sheik. You didn't pick them because of any tier they happen to be in, but because you genuinely like them as characters. You just happen to like characters that are considered top tier. Don't let anyone tell you you can't use a certain character or let them make snide comments about using 'top tier' characters. We all have different tastes. Just keep using ZSS and Sheik. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Using characters you like is infinitely better than using a character for the sole purpose of maximizing your chance to win.

 

[Wiley]

It's not the greatest feeling I'm sure. But just make sure you play them well, and anyone with experience will know you've put in work regardless. Each character can be beaten by someone of better skill by any other character, it's just a sliding scale based on MU and skill required. Don't think for a second that your mains are unbeatable, and when you realize that... then these people just turn into mosquitos. (the kind without west nile virus or whatever)

Enjoy your mains to the fullest! You have all the right to, you've put in time and appreciate their series and them as characters at a personal level beyond Smash. It may not mean much to have me say this, but then it's equally unimportant what the haters say, right?

 

[Ultinarok]

I'm a big Metroid fan. Passed all the games, unlocked all the endings for them. I'm also a big fan of Ocarina of Time, don't need to explain why do I?

Anyway, it really angers me that since Brawl I've been using Zero Suit Samus and Shiek despite their place in the Tier List. In fact, I remember that at first Zero Suit Samus was considered a Mid Tier. Shiek never made it that far. I also use Link and Samus as secondaries, but didn't use them in tournaments cuz I'm not that good like to be winning with Low Tiers.

I was amazed when they announced Zero Suit Samus and Shiek together and from there decided they would be my mains. But now that the game came out, they're overused. They're so OP that everybody wants to take a hand on them and keep using their killer Uairs and Grabs. The other day I was playing with members of a Facebook page and when we started the match he told me: Oh Zero Suit Samus, what a surprise. After that match, I used Shiek and he answered: Enjoy the Top Tier are we?
I've been mad because most are offended of me using those two characters. And can I blame them? The internet is infested with players using them for their easy learning combos, attacks, followups. Lately I've been playing with Villager, Link, Samus and Marth when in For Glory. I just feel bad making use of my main characters from Brawl and Sheik from Melee.

Just wanted to say that.

Back in Melee, before I knew ANYTHING about competitive smash or tier lists, my favorite fighters were Falco, Sheik and Captain Falcon. They felt fun to play as, I liked their speed and I liked martial arts-based fighters. In Smash 64, my favorites were Fox and Kirby. Loved how they played. I knew nothing about tier lists or about characters being better, I just preferred those characters, and later found out they were top tier. There's nothing wrong with that.

Hell, on opening day for Smash 4, I found that Yoshi, Robin, C Falcon and Shulk were my favorite characters to use. And guess who's high-top tier?

 

[popsofctown]

You may not be able to be the only player playing Zero Suit Samus, but the fully-clothed Zero Suit Samus position still appears to be available.

 

[FalconSoup]

I had a similar problem when I once used Rosalina & Luma. The player got pretty upset, too. It made me feel differently about whether I should continue trying to use her or not, but I now know that it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what people think about your character choices. Don't limit yourself because of other people. Play whoever you like playing as, no matter how many players are using them. Their status as a considerably great character is a plus. If someone keeps whining whenever they lose to you when you play such character, then tell them to get better.

 

[B0NK]

If your main is "overused," congratulations. You chose the right main.

 

[Mechageo]

Back in Melee, before I knew ANYTHING about competitive smash or tier lists, my favorite fighters were Falco, Sheik and Captain Falcon. They felt fun to play as, I liked their speed and I liked martial arts-based fighters. In Smash 64, my favorites were Fox and Kirby. Loved how they played. I knew nothing about tier lists or about characters being better, I just preferred those characters, and later found out they were top tier. There's nothing wrong with that.

Hell, on opening day for Smash 4, I found that Yoshi, Robin, C Falcon and Shulk were my favorite characters to use. And guess who's high-top tier?

I mained C. Falcon in Melee when he was considered bottom tier. I used him well and after a few years he gained his rightful place at the top. The game's meta game hasn't been figured out yet. Play the characters you have the most fun with and let those other players float and sputter. Who knows who will be the best once we have real controllers and C Sticks.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Most of the people will tell you to continue with the character you wish to play and ignore tiers/popularity/etc. I can imagine the people wanting to main Little Mac having a hard time at the game's release. But as long you prove you are playing the character because you like it and not because his power, you should be fine. And if by any means you are playing a character because of his power and not because you like it, you could be only hurting yourself in the long run. But it the end its your own business who do you play.

As for me, I kinda have that curse but in the opposite. I feel attracted to play very underused characters, despite not liking them much or playing their games a lot. And at the start I wasn't enjoying Sonic because he was considered high tier. At least I think I'm over that now.

 

[deepseadiva]

Not only in Smash, but in a lot of areas outside of it, you may find it useful not to be influenced so much by other people's opinions.

 

[MarioFireRed]

Certain characters being overused due to their gameplay was, is, and always will be in every game that doesn't have perfect balancing between them (which is pretty much all of them). What some people see adversary in "overused" characters I see opportunity: Fighting more of them everywhere allows me to learn more about the matchup and allows for more opportunities to figure out why I'm losing to them with my characters and learn from that experience.

In regards to your situation just keep using them. Sure you're gonna run into people who call foul on your character picks, but make them taste the salt they provided and force them to either learn the matchup or pick another character better suited for the fight.

 

[Yonder]

It happened to Mac and Meta Knight [Brawl]. Thankfully though, I will NEVER EVER have to worry about my real main Luigi being overused.

 

[NairWizard]

Don't worry about ZSS: she'll fall out of top tier once people realize that shield is still quite strong against her.

Also reiterating the "you shouldn't care" dialogue that others have been using. But I know that it's hard not to care sometimes.

 

[tm730]

back in brawl my friends used to respect my lucario use

now they're like "scrub character"


still dont care tho

 

[David Viran]

Don't worry about ZSS: she'll fall out of top tier once people realize that shield is still quite strong against her.

Also reiterating the "you shouldn't care" dialogue that others have been using. But I know that it's hard not to care sometimes.

That was her weakness in brawl but in this game she is a lot better with shield with not having to fear pressing her grab button in this game.
Any way just like everyone else is saying just play who you connect with regardless of some tier list.

 

[Remzi]

Dude, its a BLESSING to have your favorite characters be top tier. Don't worry about what anyone says.

 

[Pazzo.]

Don't ever, EVER think in terms of 'high or low tier'.

All you need to play a character is you having fun with said character. Nothing else matters.

 

[NairWizard]

That was her weakness in brawl but in this game she is a lot better with shield with not having to fear pressing her grab button in this game.
Any way just like everyone else is saying just play who you connect with regardless of some tier list.

The endlag makes grab a risky option; the weakness has been mitigated but not erased. Other top tier characters like Rosalina and Diddy don't have this weakness and actually have solid endlag on their grabs (it's very hard to punish a whiffed Diddy grab). Actually, it's a little worse to have a laggy grab in this game because landing once you've been knocked into the air is more difficult in this game than it was in Brawl, so taking risky options is worse.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I use Rosalina. I actually expected people to sleep on her since in the months leading up to release day she was barely hyped at all, everyone was talking about Shulk, Mega Man, Little Mac, etc. instead.

Then Dabuz happened.

I just ignore it. I decided to use Rosalina long before we knew just how powerful she was. That said, it's a very refreshing feeling to know that my chosen character is actually decent. Coming from Lucas in Brawl, it feels nice.

 

[David Viran]

The endlag makes grab a risky option; the weakness has been mitigated but not erased. Other top tier characters like Rosalina and Diddy don't have this weakness and actually have solid endlag on their grabs (it's very hard to punish a whiffed Diddy grab). Actually, it's a little worse to have a laggy grab in this game because landing once you've been knocked into the air is more difficult in this game than it was in Brawl, so taking risky options is worse.

Yes but just the fact that the other person has to even think about the grab being an option helps. The shield is still a problem but is not as glaring of a weakness as in brawl which she still managed to be top 10 in. As for being in the air that would depend on who you are facing and zss out maneuvers almost all of the characters in this game.

 

[NairWizard]

Yes but just the fact that the other person has to even think about the grab being an option helps. The shield is still a problem but is not as glaring of a weakness as in brawl which she still managed to be top 10 in.

The grab is an option that the other player must be aware of, and ZSS can condition her opponent into forgetting about her grab so that she can use it, but conditioning is a double-edged sword. If ZSS conditions her opponent into thinking that she won't grab and then starts to grab, her opponent can also condition her into thinking that he won't avoid the grab and then start to avoid it. And while ZSS' grab is rewarding (up-air strings, KOs at higher percents), it isn't as rewarding as what an opponent can do if he reads her grab, due to the punishment window. A Rosalina d-air with Luma or a Diddy f-smash is not trivial for a light character to be at risk of swallowing. Some characters can also roll back as she's grabbing and punish her whiff with a DACUS.

Her grab has been buffed, for sure, but the reason that she was top 10 in Brawl is that there were so many bad characters in that game, and there are far fewer bad characters in this game: almost every character has a decent set with customs (look at DK, whose customs make him absurd, or Bowser or Palutena) and everyone was generally given some strengths to counterbalance their weaknesses. In Brawl she had the distinction of being one of the most punishing characters due to d-smash locks; in this game, many characters have a strong punish game with the landing lag added to airdodging and the universally smoother movesets, and ZSS' punish game relative to theirs has been weakened (she can still land some nice up-air strings or the stray infinite here and there, but it's not as damaging as it was in Brawl).

Overall, I think that ZSS is a worse character in this game than in Brawl, and she will slowly fade in relevance over time. Not to say that ZSS players won't have a strong showing at tournaments, far from it, but ZSS will probably not make top 10 as the metagame develops. One important factor here is that ZSS stands to gain very little from customs as most of her customs besides Whip Lash are not worth taking over her default options: other characters improve massively when customs are allowed, so ZSS gets relatively worse on the roster.

 

[David Viran]

The grab is an option that the other player must be aware of, and ZSS can condition her opponent into forgetting about her grab so that she can use it, but conditioning is a double-edged sword. If ZSS conditions her opponent into thinking that she won't grab and then starts to grab, her opponent can also condition her into thinking that he won't avoid the grab and then start to avoid it. And while ZSS' grab is rewarding (up-air strings, KOs at higher percents), it isn't as rewarding as what an opponent can do if he reads her grab, due to the punishment window. A Rosalina d-air with Luma or a Diddy f-smash is not trivial for a light character to be at risk of swallowing. Some characters can also roll back as she's grabbing and punish her whiff with a DACUS.

Her grab has been buffed, for sure, but the reason that she was top 10 in Brawl is that there were so many bad characters in that game, and there are far fewer bad characters in this game: almost every character has a decent set with customs (look at DK, whose customs make him absurd, or Bowser or Palutena) and everyone was generally given some strengths to counterbalance their weaknesses. In Brawl she had the distinction of being one of the most punishing characters due to d-smash locks; in this game, many characters have a strong punish game with the landing lag added to airdodging and the universally smoother movesets, and ZSS' punish game relative to theirs has been weakened (she can still land some nice up-air strings or the stray infinite here and there, but it's not as damaging as it was in Brawl).

Overall, I think that ZSS is a worse character in this game than in Brawl, and she will slowly fade in relevance over time. Not to say that ZSS players won't have a strong showing at tournaments, far from it, but ZSS will probably not make top 10 as the metagame develops. One important factor here is that ZSS stands to gain very little from customs as most of her customs besides Whip Lash are not worth taking over her default options: other characters improve massively when customs are allowed, so ZSS gets relatively worse on the roster.

I'm not saying just rush in with a grab all the time I'm saying that if they can't just shield everything you can do.

The viability of characters is yet to be decided at all. At the release of brawl and melee everybody thought their were a lot more viable characters than there are now. I don't think you are giving zss punish game enough credit what made her down Smash in brawl so good was being able to down Smash twice and then follow up. In this game she can't do the down Smash twice but just follows up right away. Also she actually has a lot better follow ups on other moves besides down Smash like nair which is a great move for spacing and when you hit at low percents you can get a grab and at mid percents you can get a fair or uair.

I think she is better in this game than brawl because she is faster, strengthened her weaknesses, but didn't nerf her good moves that bad, not to mention a better time Killing in this game.

Now I think that right here right now is not a good time for this argument.

 

[DavemanCozy]

The other day I was playing with members of a Facebook page and when we started the match he told me: Oh Zero Suit Samus, what a surprise. After that match, I used Shiek and he answered: Enjoy the Top Tier are we?
I've been mad because most are offended of me using those two characters. And can I blame them? The internet is infested with players using them for their easy learning combos, attacks, followups. Lately I've been playing with Villager, Link, Samus and Marth when in For Glory. I just feel bad making use of my main characters from Brawl and Sheik from Melee.

Just wanted to say that.

You feel bad for playing "top tiers" just because people in a FACEBOOK page told you that? Lol, tell them to cry harder. You main who you enjoy playing as. If that happens to be top tier characters, so be it.

In Melee, I played Peach and Link: I enjoyed playing as both, regardless of their tier list placings. It just so happened that Peach was top, and Link was not. I didn`t care, and I still don`t if people laugh at me for picking Link or cry about how bull**** Peach is. As for Smash 3DS, if I had a nickel for every time people rage-quit on me during tourneys... I got insulted last night because "all you did was hit and run away, your Fox was so gay." All I could honestly do was laugh, because why bother with people like that? In the end, you're the one playing the characters you have fun with, and even if you get chirped, you're the one who actually enjoys the game.

 

[|RK|]

Yeah... I wasn't very good or anything with Brawl Lucario, but I still liked him as a character. For Smash 4, I was determined to play as Lucario from his re-reveal. But everywhere on the internet, it seems like he's considered way up there. For the most part, I don't feel bad about playing as him. I'll still get my ass whooped by people that are simply better than me. But on the other hand, I occasionally wonder if the character is doing most of the work. Since I've put in over 20 hours of play time with Lucario, and my next most used character only two, I can't really switch over and compare so easily.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

I liked Little Mac since his introduction, imagine how I feel :\


Fortunately he's not all too common in For Fun.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I don't see many Pikachus.
I see a fair bit of Sonics but thankfully not enough to turn me away.
I've seen like 2 Dark Pits and neither were good.
I've seen like 1 Toon Link.
I've seen some Ikes but Ike is a bro.
I've seen too many Greninjas, unfortunately. :/

 

[The Real Gamer]

Dude, its a BLESSING to have your favorite characters be top tier. Don't worry about what anyone says.

Was just about to say this... As a Zard main I'd love to have your "problems" OP. lol

 

[Forever 9]

Ness will never be overused. So GG's.

Though if "your main" is overused, then that sucks because we will tend to play a lot against that character lol

 

[Octavium]

I notably respect the use of low Tier characters alot more than the use of high Tier characters. However this game is based on mostly skill.

If I lose to a high tier character its my fault for either lacking skill or choosing an inferior character, not the opponent's fault for choosing his favorite character which he/she put effort into learning.

Even though I firmly believe a Megaman winning against a Shiek deserves much more glory than a Sheik winning against a Megaman.

Megaman still has no right to complain if he loses because he chose his weaker character himself.

 

[Ryusuta]

I feel your pain. I am a Yoshi main from the Brawl times, so it's surreal to me to hear Yoshi being considered so incredibly powerful. That said, you ultimately have to use who feels right to YOU and to hell with what other people think about it. It's YOUR character, whether it's god tier or bottom. Your character works for you, and people will respect that.

 

[Cruncher93]

Had this happen to me (in some way) in Brawl. I loved Meta Knight, but after a short while none of my friends would play if I choose him because he is "unfair". He was never my main but still it hurt that they thought this way.
Now Yoshi (my main next to Ganon) is high tier and I'm reading stuff like "Yoshi = scrub char", which is disheartening.

However I like the character and I will keep playing him, anyone who is afraid to play against top tiers should step up their game and stop hiding behind insults.

 

[Los4Muros]

OK. I guess you guys are right. I'll keep using them even if they're overused. And I guess I should be glad that at least I'll be able to use Zero Suit Samus in tournaments.
But I guess another point to the topic is just feeling jealous. I've been with Samus and Shiek using them through the how franchise (when they've been available) and then SSB4 comes out and everybody gets their hands on them. Get's me mad thinking that my loyalty is now just another brick in a wall.

 

[Conda]

I decided to use Rosalina long before we knew just how powerful she was.

Insert hipster meme pic.

To OP: Don't worry about this, just play who you like.

 

[S2]

Just play Sheik or ZSS then. Really, don't even bother with comments screaming OP at this point, the game isn't far enough in its lifecycle to really determine if something is overly dominant. OP gets thrown around a lot by newbies and scrubs whenever they run into something they can't immediately beat.

The only time I ever judge someone based on character choice is against some Little Macs. It's perfectly fine to main Little Mac, more power to those guys, he has some rough matchups. Specifically I mean players who end up shifting to Mac when they can't win. It never works and it's painfully obvious the difference between a Mac main and someone trying to use him as a crutch.

 

[ninrok]

I know I wrong in a way for limiting the use of my mains. But I do understand what they're talking about. Sometimes a Sheik or a Zero Suit Samus against my Link or Samus are hell. Just watching them choose a Low Tier makes reconsider if I'm abusing the advantage that my character has over them. I try to change for the second match, but they obviously leave. But you have a good point.

From my experience in other FGs and having to deal with similar things:

Don't feel that way, ever.

Said person/people either knew what they were getting into when they picked their character, or if they're going to complain, needs to make choices of their own (stick to supposed "low tier" character? Actually learn the matchup?).

Play who/what you enjoy (and most likely win with). Everyone's not going to be happy with your pick, ever - that's their problem to get over, to be honest. After all, I 'm sure they're playing who they enjoy. And abuse your advantages, for sure.

I'm maining/loving Peach right now, but I'd be damned if I didn't play my pocket Sheik because "OMG she's overused" or some other such nonsense. :-p

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is why I'm usually more partial towards mid tier- low tier characters. There's something jarring about playing someone who only plays high tier characters and is laughably bad with them. At least with mid tier- low tier characters it's somewhat commendable because it's typically an uphill battle anyways but if I'm two/three stocking your Rosalina with someone like Ganondorf, you really need to re-evaluate who you play as.

 

[Uffe]

This is very trivial, but I know how you feel. I would have just explained to the person your reasons for using them and that you've used them since previous Smash games. My brother will always main Samus, no matter what tier she falls into. I'm actually trying to learn her so I could use her as a secondary because my brother doesn't have this Smash game yet. Kind of a tribute sort of thing, really. He'd probably get annoyed with me using her if we ever played each other.