What's holding our monkey back? A discussion for weaknesses and common problems.

[Vyse]

Basically I want to investigate what it is about Diddy that he lacks which puts him only just in A tier. What does Diddy lack? Or is it more of an issue to do with him being outshined by other characters?

I think this is a necessary thing to re-evaluate before we can advance forward.
He's got everything, and a banana to boot, but maybe it's those things like "Metaknight's Fair is better than Diddy's" that edge him closer to B tier than the others.

Of course everything is subjective, MK's Fair and Diddy's Fair have different strengths and weaknesses and it was really to prove a point. How does Diddy stack up?

We need to look at what we perceive Diddy as being incapable of, and, finding ways around it, and developing solutions for.

It's hard at first. As I think to myself right now I can only think of the positives of Diddy's moveset, and the different areas he excels in.

I guess other characters are able to do what Diddy does, but better. MK is probably better at gimping, but Diddy is probably better at dealing with Planking, so there's a somewhat even tradeoff.

Maybe it would be better to address some of the most common problems encountered by Diddy players in their most common and troublesome matchups. Alot of this sounds like it just belongs in the matchup thread, but I'd like to see some real deep discussion about what they feel their Diddy play lacks, and to go through and reiterate again past strategies for dealing with these issues.

For example, I'm not too fond of using Diddy against Heavy characters. My Diddy is a very safe Diddy, however if I wanted to play safe, I should really be playing a heavier character, and so I tend to get beaten by Snakes and Dedede's.

Snakes tend to land those devastating tilts, and Dedede's like to block my bananas with Waddle Dees, which really screws up my game, and so in the past I've resorted to Falco. As much as I like Falco, I'd like very much to be able to handle these matchups with just Diddy.

Really, one day I'd like to see Diddy 2nd on the tier list.

In short: What are the most common problems that we as Diddy mains have to deal with today, and how should we deal with them? Be they specific or encompassing.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

its hard for me to deal with spamming like pit or falco or pikachu

i also hate people with good aerials (marth, luigi, kirby)

edit: go more aggressive against spammers, dont try to spam back cuz youll lose
against marth and luigi, you should camp more and dont approach them. when they approach, use utilt or ftilt to out range their attacks.

 

[ADHD]

Diddy needs no secondaries whatsoever for any stage and I have proven it.

Weaknesses?

Diddy sucks at geting back on the ground AND getting momentum if he is coming back from a strain of aerials like from marth or metaknight. This is a problem in those two specific matchups that I can only think this happens. Diddy can't compete naner-less against these two so he has to in addition to finally landing on the ground pluck them out. It's not like he can suddenly just go back on the ground and swat marth away, you can do that but its very risky and you'll most likely fail at that.

Stage counterpicks hurt. Of course diddy is good on all stages or can be decent on those that people feel he is "horrible" on, but the chances of beating a high level metaknight on brinstar or rainbow cruise with diddy kong are very slim and it's most likely going to be that way for the entire life span of brawl. I'd rather not choose a secondary for that because I'd actually do better with diddy there than I would with another character.

Recovery: Recovery is great, but there are strong tactics against this, such as using metaknights falling nair from the ledge to stump his barrels, or spamming lucario's dair when he is rising up. This will never get any better.

Necessity for momentum: Yeah if you haven't noticed diddy needs momentum to beat most of his opponents. If you can't get momentum you're not going to win. Not so much in singles is this bad at all unless its a character who can take advantage of this like MARTH (****ing marth,) but in doubles this leaves diddy to only be a support character rather than an actual team-player.

Killing: Before I whine about killing, it's absolutely decent. The problem with this is that diddy's KO moves are very obvious when they're going to be used, letting people live to 140 consistently because they can simply prepare to DI it 2 seconds before the attack is even activated. Fat characters will always live to 160 no matter how fresh, or the location of the smash on the stage is. Again, never gong to get better.

Diddy *****, his pros are too great to be hastled by his cons. He is the third or fourth best in the game, and he deserves to be in that place. We have to step it up and win more often, and I'm trying my best to get better as a player to make it happen.

I feel diddy's worst matchup is marth, than luigi slightly behind. These two matchups are very possible, and brawl gave diddy an easy time with having to fight other characters.

 

[fZk]

I really can't see Diddy ever being 2nd on the tier list. First, he struggles badly against those higher in the tier list than him (Marth, MK, Snake & Falco), so I can't see Diddy finding viable strategies to consistently deal with them.

Another thing, opponents are becoming smarter to Diddy's banana game. Using them effectively against us or withstanding the pressure from diddy's naners that would have cracked them a few months back. Diddy needs to improve it's already good ground game if it can't use bananas against a smart opponent. In short, we can't get away with as many naner shenanigans as we used to.

It's not impossible but it's going to be very hard to move Diddy up in the tier list.

 

[ADHD]

I really can't see Diddy ever being 2nd on the tier list. First, he struggles badly against those higher in the tier list than him (Marth, MK, Snake & Falco), so I can't see Diddy finding viable strategies to consistently deal with them.

What? Marth is the only one listed there. Falco can be an even matchup when you handle it right, mk is dead even, and snake is somewhat even...

 

[AlphaZealot]

Another thing, opponents are becoming smarter to Diddy's banana game. Using them effectively against us or withstanding the pressure from diddy's naners that would have cracked them a few months back. Diddy needs to improve it's already good ground game if it can't use bananas against a smart opponent. In short, we can't get away with as many naner shenanigans as we used to.

To this day I have never encountered an opponent who makes more effective use of my own bananas then I do. I have seen some use them, but usually just in short spurts.

Also I don't think Diddy has any match ups that I would classify as "bad".

For some reason I've been doing poorly against Snakes of late. I think its because I'm not playing wifi anymore and that was the practice that use to make me good against Snakes. Aside from that I've never had enough problems with MK or Marth or Falco to say there is a trend. Marth I've actually never lost to, but I haven't played Neo outside of team friendlies yet so I don't know what a Marth of similar caliber as myself would really do (wins against Marth: Xisin, Steel2nd, HMS, Eazy, insert random other marths-every Marth I've ever played I have at least 2 stocked).

 

[Teh Future]

^I just read adhd's post on snake and I was wondering what the matchup is like. The most recent videos is you vs ally and the ones in the video thread are really old.

No one will ever surpass snake as the second best character in the game, imo hes still completely underrated just because of meat knight.

Also this board has wayy too many good players on it compared to the other character boards, I feel out of place lol.

 

[Corrupted]

I think the biggest problem is that people are getting better at dealing with his banana game. I've learned all the ATs just to get better at the match-up.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I agree with AZ. No one can really use bananas as effectively as Diddy, and, except for a few random people who seriously look into the things their character can do with Diddy, no one ever will. Why? Diddy can take out bananas whenever he wants to, and that alone makes his control of them better than others.

I don't constitute sheiling->grabbing with an aerial->throwing back as getting better at dealing with his banana game (Diddy can do it too).

I doubt Diddy will be second on the list. I can imagine him being 4th because he does have quite a bit of potential, but I imagine that MK, Snake, and even Wario later down the line will surpass him (Wario has a ton of potential, and there's new stuff being discovered and tested about him constantly).

I agree with basically everything Chrome and AZ said. He doesn't have bad stages on his own, but some characters like MK are just so much better than him on Norfair and RC. And I don't think he has bad match-ups either; he may have some that aren't in his favor, but they can easily be worked through.

Knowing match-ups, spacing, and really how to play is pretty important. Other than ADHD (who three-stocked my Diddy, sadface), every other Diddy I've played was pretty readable and played almost the same. Granted this is Wi-Fi, but still. Many Diddys around my level (re: not good) like to rush in with obvious banana throws, dash attack followups, etc. They're often really aggressive and sometimes impatient with approaches (re: just throwing bananas and hoping they hit). Those types of Diddys are a pain to deal with at a novice level, but they get ***** hard once they start playing better people.

Being aggressive and offensive is a good part of Diddys game, but staying that way constantly throughout the game isn't good. My favourite characters to play are Link and Snake, because I feel like I constantly have to think about my spacing and when to be offensive. If you're too far away from Link, he wards you off with projectiles and it takes some effort getting back in a good range. But if you're too aggressive (constantly jumping after him to aerial), then he can throw out a Gale Boomerang and get you back away again. When I'm not attacking either of these characters, I feel like I have to be just close enough so they can't camp, but just far enough so I can't eat a kill move.

2cents

 

[fource]

I struggle with my banana game. Against most people, straight banana tossing works so I do it.
When I play better MKs in my crew like Domo and Affinity my banana game gets totally wrecked.
I immediately throw as soon as I have a banana and almost never think of mixing it up, partly because I don't know how.
I should probably ask Nynja but I never get around to it.


Edit: I can't ****ing stand the IC match up. If I get grabbed I'm wrecked and then they can grab both bananas and **** Diddy with B and side B then running away. Its so annoying.

 

[TreK]

diddy's ledge options suck. If i am hanging on the ledge vs a decent enough marth, it's one more stock i can say goodbye to unless i get lucky

there are several others weaknesses AZ and adhd already pointed and i'm ok with them lol
nothing really hurting. Diddeh deserves his tier spot ^_^

 

[:mad:]

I'm guessing Diddy's just becoming predictable nowadays.
A few months back, it was a lot easier because banana tricks weren't that easy to get around.

 

[white peachy]

For me, kill power is about the only thing that irritates me at times. When I have to fsmash a good DDD at 180% and all he has to do is utilt me at 120% that bugs me, but whatever. It is what it is. It's frustrating but it's just something you have to accept if you're going to main Diddy. He's still top 5 IMO.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

I can definitely see diddy as being 3rd/4th on the tier list. diddy is an amazing character. Also pretty much all of the cons i can think of have already been mentioned by chrome lol >.<

but yeah, people are learning how to play diddy more. using bananas arent as easy as it used to be. Imo, since pretty much everyone already has the techs down, its really about how well you know the matchup/manipulate nanners.

also, i haaattee that i can't kill people unless there 120+, any tips on getting earlier kills possibly?

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

I think that this topic explains my dilemma. IDK any of you guys posted but it was a pretty good and logical topic if you ask me.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221632&page=2

 

[saberhof]

i am gonna say, the hitboxes on other characters don't compare to diddys, =S, like pit...somehow, hes a big problem in my list... all his moves are somehow unavoidable and is Side b omg xO...i always have to jump over it to hit something xO...i get grabs here now and then, but because he isn't a really good player, but still, hes good at what he does :O...its irritating...i cant even get a spike xO...and sometimes he screws up, and thats what i wait for always...our matches always last like 6 minutes...

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

You may be just getting frustaed.

You guys need to gimp moar, and have epic mindgames.


I mean ADHD is like possessed when I ever see him play.

 

[fZk]

What? Marth is the only one listed there. Falco can be an even matchup when you handle it right, mk is dead even, and snake is somewhat even...

I may have exaggerated with "struggles badly", but they're some of Diddy's toughest matchups.

I'm guessing Diddy's just becoming predictable nowadays.
A few months back, it was a lot easier because banana tricks weren't that easy to get around.

No other character has as many banana options a s Diddy, but this is definitely happening.

 

[Player-1]

MK is only even on FD and SV, every other stage is a minimim of 55-45

Snake is a 55-45 matchup

Just because you 'handle' a matchup a certain way doesn't make it any less in the other person's favor, I'd say 60:40.

Marth IDK, I've never had much trouble with Marth, but by the way you keep going on about it it sounds like 65-35 or 70-30, but I poersonally think it's 60-40 because I'e never had any trouble.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Sure, the bananas are getting a little easier to handle, but I don't see why people are saying that they're going to become less and less effective.

Obviously, people have realized to shield and grab with an aerial your bananas if your about to throw them. And obviously, if you just pluck a banana, stand there, and do a super obvious glide toss, they're going to catch it. But if you watch videos of people like Ninjalink and ADHD who are really unpredictable, glidetossing and dribbling everywhere and not always at the opponent, their opponents have a much tougher time handling the bananas.

And it's not as if you can't catch them back. Diddy can do the exact same thing, shielding and using an aerial to catch (and all of his aerials are really good with catching bananas). Plus, it's not always bad when your opponent catches bananas, because bad ones are often predictable with their throws and can let you punish. And you can rocket-barrel cancel bananas that aren't yours...

Also, I don't think any of Diddy's match-ups are over 40-60 in his favor, except for some counterpicks by your opponent, like if MK CPd Brinstar or Norfair on you, it could be 35-65. Could.

 

[napZzz]

Its impossible to kill with diddy when people know how to DI

 

[Teh Future]

Everyone's complaining about his kill power, but seriously, you guys need to gimp.

Everyone in the game can be gimped with the correct prediction of where your opponent is going to be. Limit their options, then fair/dair whatever. Even if they don't die its moar damage.

Even when you don't get a gimp anytime you hit an opponent you should be getting 25-30% from it if not more because you will usually get stage control + bananas after this. Diddy has one of the easiest times killing in the game once you get your opponents to the right percentage. It is incredibly easy to hit a glide toss to dsmash/fsmash/whatever compared to what other characters in the game have to try to do to kill.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

Everyone's complaining about his kill power, but seriously, you guys need to gimp.

Everyone in the game can be gimped with the correct prediction of where your opponent is going to be. Limit their options, then fair/dair whatever. Even if they don't die its moar damage.

Even when you don't get a gimp anytime you hit an opponent you should be getting 25-30% from it if not more because you will usually get stage control + bananas after this. Diddy has one of the easiest times killing in the game once you get your opponents to the right percentage. It is incredibly easy to hit a glide toss to dsmash/fsmash/whatever compared to what other characters in the game have to try to do to kill.

i understand what your saying, but good players are good at not being gimped. But yea, i love to gimp. If diddy couldn't gimp it wouldn't be the same >.<

 

[Staco]

I doubt Diddy will be second on the list. I can imagine him being 4th because he does have quite a bit of potential, but I imagine that MK, Snake, and even Wario later down the line will surpass him (Wario has a ton of potential, and there's new stuff being discovered and tested about him constantly).

but there is new stuff against wario being discovered (grab releases etc.)

 

[AvaricePanda]

Good Warios hardly ever get grabbed; he probably spends the most time in the air than any other character. His short hopped aerials, if timed right, all end right before he actually hits the ground, so he can't be punished with landing lag on his aerials. My Wario doesn't get grabbed much; even during 2v1 situations in doubles, I don't really get grabbed. And I'm not a good Wario, lulz.

While I do agree that grab releases are a detrimental part against Wario's game, I don't think they'd stop him from potentially being third with the new things being discovered with him, like the big wheel combos. Most likely he's around the 3-5th area.

As far as the top goes...G&W seems really good but not many people use him, and honestly I don't know much about him. D3 shuts down so many characters, but he's really predictable, and not much new is being learned about him. Falco...lol, why the heck is he 3rd? I honestly think he should drop. I realize he's good, but third...no.

Marth is insanely good if your opponent spaces and predicts well. Wario is not only good now, but he has a ton of potential and is a powerhouse in doubles. And while Diddy, like Wario, has solid, unpredictable (if used right) gameplay and a lot of potential, some of the things against him definitely prevent him from ever being 2nd or 3rd, in my opinion. 4th? Maybe, down the line. I suspect 5th is the most likely place for him right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was 6th nex tlist.

Not so much that Diddy is bad, because he's not. It's just there's a large pool of characters that are around his skill level or better, so it's too hard to tell. But really, the margin from 3-8 isn't that large.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah ADHD and AZ pretty much covered all of Diddys weaknesses
But about people wising up to banana tricks, I have to say that I dont think this will prevent Diddy from moving up. Diddys bananas are just so versatile when used by him. He has so many tricks. I mean if you play someone with a certain style banana game and they learn to combat it; just switch your banana game up. Diddy has an amazing GT that he can use at ANY time (outve a dash, run and standing still shield or no shield). It should be almost impossible for your opponent to predict you. I know it sounds basic but if you change all the time (like each time you approach with a banana), its impossible for your opponent to know whats coming.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

Yeah ADHD and AZ pretty much covered all of Diddys weaknesses
But about people wising up to banana tricks, I have to say that I dont think this will prevent Diddy from moving up. Diddys bananas are just so versatile when used by him. He has so many tricks. I mean if you play someone with a certain style banana game and they learn to combat it; just switch your banana game up. Diddy has an amazing GT that he can use at ANY time (outve a dash, run and standing still shield or no shield). It should be almost impossible for your opponent to predict you. I know it sounds basic but if you change all the time (like each time you approach with a banana), its impossible for your opponent to know whats coming.

i agree with this

every single approach matters with diddy. make your opponent get used to you gt'ing forward then throw in a dribble to draw out the spot dodge, or run behind them and pivot grab. when they get used to your dash attack, run toward them, sidestep and grab, or dash attack short and use an aerial over their shield grab. if they know youre gonna dribble, dribble back but dont pick up the naner, or gt back and throw forward. the possibilities are endless!

 

[Nitrix]

For example, I'm not too fond of using Diddy against Heavy characters. My Diddy is a very safe Diddy, however if I wanted to play safe, I should really be playing a heavier character, and so I tend to get beaten by Snakes and Dedede's.

Snakes tend to land those devastating tilts, and Dedede's like to block my bananas with Waddle Dees, which really screws up my game, and so in the past I've resorted to Falco. As much as I like Falco, I'd like very much to be able to handle these matchups with just Diddy.

Really, one day I'd like to see Diddy 2nd on the tier list.

In short: What are the most common problems that we as Diddy mains have to deal with today, and how should we deal with them? Be they specific or encompassing.

I totally agree with you on Snake. I always feel like I am working so much harder to keep up. Snake's tilts and jabs make him insane and I haven't played many Dedede's, but I haven't had a huge problem with them. You could try landing more throws out of g-tosses, or jumping in with aerials and throwing/dropping bananas downward to avoid the Waddle Dees.

When playing Diddy I find my main problem is killing and predictability. I feel like Diddy is a freight train, he has to go fast and offensive and ride right over his oponent if he is going to win. Once he slows down everything becomes harder.

Most of my matches always follow the same routine. I steal the 1st stock, and then for the rest of the match my oponent slowly gains an edge against me. I am now realizing that I am too predictable in my gameplay.

As far as the top goes...G&W seems really good but not many people use him, and honestly I don't know much about him. D3 shuts down so many characters, but he's really predictable, and not much new is being learned about him. Falco...lol, why the heck is he 3rd? I honestly think he should drop. I realize he's good, but third...no.

Falco is crazy. I don't think he will be dropping.

 

[Count]

P1, Play a good marth not on wifi then you will get why it is so hard, we are just lucky that MK ***** marth. Marth sucks in wifi he can't do dancing blade as well and his spacing is easily messed up.

 

[Player-1]

P1, Play a good marth not on wifi then you will get why it is so hard, we are just lucky that MK ***** marth. Marth sucks in wifi he can't do dancing blade as well and his spacing is easily messed up.

So not even the good Marths on wifi such as Bardull and Nabster count?

I have 2 decent Marths in GA, and I'm still not having much problems facing them

 

[Ingulit]

Diddy CANNOT keep opponents in the air AT ALL

Now, I know that sounds odd for Diddy-- "Why would you want them in the air in the first place?"-- but two of the best people I play main Olimar, and to win in that matchup, you NEED to keep him above you. It's in this matchup that you notice his U-Tilt has poor horizontal range, his U-Smash has bad wind-down lag for followups, his U-Air is very short ranged and predictable, and Diddy is much slower horizontally in the air than on the ground (meaning to chase an opponent flying away, you have to land and then jump, which can become predictable). If you ever need your opponent in the air for whatever reason, Diddy doesn't have the tools to do it.

On a related note, Diddy suffers the same problem Olimar does: he has a massive blind spot beneath him that Marth, Olimar, MK, and anyone really can abuse to juggle you to no end until they make a mistake. It's already been mentioned, but he really does have a hard time getting back to the ground.

Also already stated, Diddy's ledge game is also subpar. Most of his get-ups are predictable and subsequently punishable, and you really can't get back to the stage against Marth unless you have a banana in hand that they won't just catch. Also, while his recovery has distance, it is very easily gimped by projectiles, proper edge hugging, and Meta Knight.

 

[Bellioes]

I agree about Diddy not being able to juggle very well but I find getting to the ground with Diddy not as hard as say Snake. Diddy has a lot more options in the air than Snake. Snake has Airdodging, B-Reversed nades/C4s, drifting and if theyre desperate maybe a FFed aerial. Diddy has Airdodging, ForwardB (if your opponent doesnt predict this your pretty much guaranteed a safe landing), B-Reversed peanuts (just like Snakes nades I guess), FFed Fair (less range, duration and knockback but a lot harder to punish) and bananas (zdropped, thrown down pull them out while falling etc.)
One more option than Snkae may not seem like a lot but Diddys are a lot more versatile if you think about it (esecially his naners and Monkey Hump)

 

[AvaricePanda]

I never really try landing next to the opponent anyway. I usually either do a FFed aerial, usually Bair or Fair (although Fair is easy to sheildgrab because of the landing lag) or just Monkey Flip away. Landing next to the opponent as Diddy isn't really that great unless you're playing someone annoyingly campy.

Although I agree; his offstage-game isn't that great. While he can gimp pretty decently, his own recovery can get gimped (I try to not have to rocket barrel as much as possible). Getting from the edge, he doesn't have as many options, but he still does pretty decently, at least against the people I face. If they're literally towering over you, uairing seems to work, as does monkey flipping back on. But when I do the latter, I try to space myself far away enough from the ledge before I begin the flip so that by the time they try to attack me when I'm on the stage, I can airdodge or do an aerial.

 

[Panix]

What? Marth is the only one listed there. Falco can be an even matchup when you handle it right, mk is dead even, and snake is somewhat even...

Eh, falco's reflector really changes the flow of the fight because of a simple change of whos holding the banana and whos going to trip on it for its placement.

marth KO's and outspaces diddy pretty well.

MK has the advantage, It's even on flat stages where diddy can pull some crazy stuff with nanners.

snakes nades clank with diddys nanners. limiting there useage, but once you get snake in the air, your nanner game comes out easier.

diddy is top tier. maybe 4-5 but I don't see diddy being better then MK, Snake,or Falco.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Honestly, I see Falco dropping. He's reached a plateau now for a couple of months while other characters with a lot of potential, (Wario, maybe Diddy and G&W) are rising.

Marth is probably one of Diddy's toughest match-ups, because Diddy gets outspaced, Marth can juggle well, Marth can KO well, and other reasons.

The problem with Falco's, at least the ones I've faced, is that they're all predictable. They all obviously try to go for the CG when you're at low %s, all try to reflect at basically the same time when you have a banana at hand, etc. You can't be obvious and just throw a banana at them and expect it to hit. I usually GT down to approach, wait for the reflector to come out, and sheildgrab. Or I'll just monkey-flip above the reflector to hit him. It's a tough match-up, but it's not that much of Falco's advantage. I'd say 55:45 leaning to 50:50.

Snake is close somewhat. Compared to other characters, he's relatively easy to gimp. Snakes grenades do clank with Diddy's bananas, but Diddy has more free usage of his projectile (he can still jump freely and throw in most directions without worrying about time limits), so you can usually jump around the grenades. More than anything else, I worry about how easy it is for Snake to kill you, because just a couple of grenade explosions combined with a utilt or ftilt means death.

MK and Diddy is even on Diddy's CPs (Castle Siege, FD, Smashville), but 6:4 MK on his counterpicks (RC, Brinstar, Norfair).

Even though some of his match-ups like MK, Marth, and Falco are difficult, they're all winnable and can be worked through.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

imo, the marth match up is a bit harder than you think.

marth is good on almost every stage, and his counter picks just kill diddy. (RC, Norfair) His sword out ranges everything diddy has except his projectiles, but marth is usually in the air. He'll approach so that it's impossible to utilt or ftilt him, so you'll have to retreat or shield. Shield grabbing is useless cuz of his spacing, and if you try, he'll probably jump and fair or nair. It's really hard to approach him cuz he will jump over naners and shield grab your dash attack, and his utilt destroys diddy's aerial range. His killing power is superb, if he lands a tipper fsmash on the edge, you're basically dead. His edge guarding game is great, he can fair you out of your barrels and even spike or dolphin slash you. It's really hard to gimp marth, and you dont want to get stage spiked by his dolphin slash while dropping back to bair him

to win this matchup, you have to be really patient and smart. Mindgame before you approach, and dont let him get your naners. When he approaches, shield and wait for the second jump approach and punish after it. Always recover carefully or you'll get gimped

its a winnable match up, but imo the hardest

i agree with you on falco, he's predictable, and he'll probably go down
marth, on the other hand, will probably stay where he is or go up slightly

 

[Player-1]

...I'm just not seeing what's so hard about Marth =/

 

[ADHD]

...I'm just not seeing what's so hard about Marth =/

Diddy has no solid approach or solid defense against him. Marth can do whatever the hell he wants. Diddy can't even go offstage or he'll get gimped. So okay, diddy has bananas on marth. Once the marth player learns your throwing habits he will just fair or nair in time to catch it, his aerials have stupidly large catching abilities. Absolutely nothing diddy has against marth except to throw out attacks and hope they hit.

 

[Player-1]

Diddy has no solid approach or solid defense against him. Marth can do whatever the hell he wants. Diddy can't even go offstage or he'll get gimped. So okay, diddy has bananas on marth. Once the marth player learns your throwing habits he will just fair or nair in time to catch it, his aerials have stupidly large catching abilities. Absolutely nothing diddy has against marth except to throw out attacks and hope they hit.

Overexaggeration

 

[fource]

Overexaggeration

Only to some extent, but I think we all know his statement holds truth.
Name one aerial that can out-space any of Marth's. Our smashes don't even reach further then his. Even if we get in range of hitting, Marth's sword has priority.
I can genuinely say that the Marth vs. Diddy match-up is the hardest.