What's holding our monkey back? A discussion for weaknesses and common problems.

[DFEAR]

i have to agree with chrome 90%

:\ to me the ONLY way to beat a good marth is just punish him with our super mindgames :\ otherwise there is no hope. he out spaces/out prioritizes

though i do like how my fair sometimes hits him first before he pulls off an fair xD could be a 100% fluke tho

 

[Player-1]

So by your Logic, Ike is one of Diddy's hardest matchups because he outspaces and out prioritrzes us

 

[Bellioes]

No but Marth doesnt just have priority and range, he also has decent amount of speed. He can approach safely and if we cant get past his sword hes free to just weave in and back out out. Ikes too slow so he cant put up the same kind of pressure that Marth puts up. Plus his horizontal air control is so horrid he cant even hope to weave. And shielding isnt as effective versus a Marth cause of that neutral B. If you shield his approaches too much he can just SH Shield Breaker (happened many times to me cause I was waiting for a Fair) Really the only way Ive been able to approach is a GT outve shield after they Fair my shield and start to drift back. Marths usually dont aerial on the way back (unless they use the cstick then they can but I havent seen this too much) so your free to hit them. But its not 100%. Marth has other options besides Fairing. Get to predictable and youll eat an empty SH to grab or something like it especially with that crazy range. So yeah... I hate Marths Gonna have to go with Chrome here

 

[ADHD]

So by your Logic, Ike is one of Diddy's hardest matchups because he outspaces and out prioritrzes us

So lets hear why you feel luigi is harder than marth, because you haven't said anything yet.

 

[Player-1]

So lets hear why you feel luigi is harder than marth, because you haven't said anything yet.

1. His aerial control is amazing, good aerials, good aerial DI, has a decent projectile, and a lot of priority. Hard to approach, you can approach with Usmashes and Fairs, but both can be punished.

2. He kills you REALLY early with his Fsmash and Up-B, his Dsmash and Usmash can kill you pretty early too, but they're easier to DI. On the other hand, killing Luigi is harder because he slips when you throw bananas at him, and can't get a good GT > F/Dsmash.

3. As said earlier, you can't follow him up with bananas with anything except a dash attack and sometimes a grab, boosted grab, or Ftilt.

4. He can gimp you pretty well, but same goes for Diddy against him.

5. You can camp him fairly well on FD, but his aerials can still give you trouble when camping, and his tornado is fast and can catch you offguard. Also, FD usually gets banned in this matchup which leaves you with other neutrals that can't be camped that well.

 

[ADHD]

You can't camp weegee whatsoever, no the worst that's going to happen if you repeatedly spam fair is he's going to clash a nair or bair with it. You then gain space all over again. Fair even outprioritizes fireballs. Also, luigi is hard to approach, what? Just run up to him. Yes I admit the strain of combos are difficult to deal with, but you just have to keep your distance and not get hit with an autocanceled nair basically. Diddy doesn't even need follow-ups out of a trip against him. He slides so far back so just don't throw it directly at him. Rarely use bananas too. I want to play biglou and see how i do (that rhymed!).

 

[Le_THieN]

I haven't posted in this topic yet, but that's mainly because I've been taking a backseat to the generally great discussion that you guys are having. This is easily the best and most thoughtful analysis we've had on the meta-game in awhile, and it's good to see lots of new faces throwing in their meaningful two cents on the matter.

That said, I think we should avoid dissection of specific character match-ups, as it kind of strays from the original point of the topic. While rough match-ups due contribute to the the occasional pothole in our meta-game, that's not necessarily the answer that I think we are trying to seek at hand.

 

[ADHD]

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with diddy as a char that's that exploitable, if every tourney stage were a neutral diddy would be winning left and right. It's just counterpicks and specific matchups that blow and imo all that's holding him back... Maybe someone will perfect those pesky matchups on pesky stages, but I sure as hell am finding it out of his potential right now

 

[AlAxe]

I definitely have noticed people getting better at dealing with bananas. I lately played a Rob that used my bananas very effectively with glide tossing. While I believe that if you're good with bananas no one is going to use them as well as you do against you (except maybe another diddy), I think that we need to be more careful than before and can't just throw bananas wildly. I also believe that there is a lot of work we could do developing strategies that don't include bananas.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I definitely have noticed people getting better at dealing with bananas. I lately played a Rob that used my bananas very effectively with glide tossing. While I believe that if you're good with bananas no one is going to use them as well as you do against you (except maybe another diddy), I think that we need to be more careful than before and can't just throw bananas wildly. I also believe that there is a lot of work we could do developing strategies that don't include bananas.

True to a slight extent. People have been getting better at dealing with obvious bananas.

Where most Diddy's fall short of is that they're too obvious with their banana throws. Average Diddy' like myself have the problem of approaching effectively against people who are actually playing attention. A lot of Diddy players just take a banana out, GT forward, and hope it hits so they can follow up, even though their GTs are reeeaallllyyy obvious.

This is where "mindgame" or flat out different approaches come into play, like single banana dribbling/double banana dribbling/GTing up and down/OoS GTs/GTs out of peanut gun/monkey flips/BPGs/short hopped banana throws, etc. etc. Diddy really has a LOT more options than just a standard glide-toss to approach.

Although honestly, some characters such as ROB can catch your bananas easier, because you really don't have as many options. Because ROB can keep you on your toes with his gyros and lasers, when you have a chance to pluck out a banana, most Diddys end up doing the standard glide-toss approach, so the ROB just sheilds and aerials to catch it.

However, most people who aren't Diddy don't think of the other options when they have a banana, and they're even more obvious than Diddy. Most people either glide-toss back towards you (in an obvious fashion), in which case you can rocket-barrel cancel or just catch back, or they down-throw the banana to try to keep it in their control (because some people know that Diddy just has a better time regaining control of them).

I honestly think Diddy's worst problems are his killing ability (which isn't horrible, but it could easily be better), and his problem on counterpicks with certain stages. Diddy has a pretty even match-up with MK on Smashville and Final Destination, but MK destroys Diddy on Norfair and RC.

 

[SuSa]

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with diddy as a char that's that exploitable, if every tourney stage were a neutral diddy would be winning left and right. It's just counterpicks and specific matchups that blow and imo all that's holding him back... Maybe someone will perfect those pesky matchups on pesky stages, but I sure as hell am finding it out of his potential right now

Hitting him while he's charging his barrels.

It's really fun with Pit, you should try it some time. *loop-de-loop BOOM!*

<_<..........its REALLY exploitable when the Diddy needs to charge his up-B... Mario can run off-stage and B-reverse his fireball if you're recovering from below on certain stages, and it WILL hit you...

In fact, not to hurt Diddy - but to help people against this matchup (to many people ***** about it) I think I may research all the "easy ways to gimp a diddy kong who is forced to charge up-b".........*goes to do research*

It would also help Diddy's find angles and such that are harder to gimp, therefore making you more likely to survive against people who ALREADY know the easy ways to gimp him. *coughs me coughs*

I use him in tourney, but I want to develop the overall metagame - not just a single character.

Anything that helps more people then just Meta Knight helps me reach my goal....

 

[fource]

I actually don't like the Luigi match up either, but that's because I hate going against Luigi in general, not just when I'm DDK.
But c'mon P-1, Ike? That's totally different and you know it. Marth speed and combined with the fact that every aerial can be short hopped AND fast falled is just devastating to the little monkey.
Then there's always the fact that Marth has a sword and we're using lunch.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Hitting him while he's charging his barrels.

It's really fun with Pit, you should try it some time. *loop-de-loop BOOM!*

<_<..........its REALLY exploitable when the Diddy needs to charge his up-B... Mario can run off-stage and B-reverse his fireball if you're recovering from below on certain stages, and it WILL hit you...

In fact, not to hurt Diddy - but to help people against this matchup (to many people ***** about it) I think I may research all the "easy ways to gimp a diddy kong who is forced to charge up-b".........*goes to do research*

It would also help Diddy's find angles and such that are harder to gimp, therefore making you more likely to survive against people who ALREADY know the easy ways to gimp him. *coughs me coughs*

I use him in tourney, but I want to develop the overall metagame - not just a single character.

Anything that helps more people then just Meta Knight helps me reach my goal....

It really does suck when I'm forced to use my UpB, especially on people like Kirby or Marth...it's just an easy stock for them, so I spend a lot of time making sure I don't get off the ledge at early percents.

I try to use his SideB recovery as much as possible, but when I do have to use rocket barrels, I try to go as far away from the stage as possible so characters with bad range don't get an easy gimp. Charging far from the stage (but not too far down) gets you a good enough speed and angle so it's harder to gimp you.

 

[Ingulit]

Hitting him while he's charging his barrels.

It's really fun with Pit, you should try it some time. *loop-de-loop BOOM!*

Oh my GOD, this happened to me a few days back when I was playing the scrubbiest Pit; I had dealt him ~80% before he landed a single hit on me, but when he finally hit me he managed to knock me over the side of the stage (Yoshi's) and I didn't have my double jump (don't even remember why). Then, even though he didn't know what he was doing (he's not that good, he just plays for fun), he did the best thing he could do at that moment: he started spamming his Side-B at the edge... resulting in my death at 14%. 14%!! And I had been comboing him for about a minute without taking any damage, and my inability to return with my Up-B versus his Side-B kills me at 14%! Really, if you're forced to use the barrels to recover against certain characters, you can consider that a stock We REALLY need to find new ways to recover, like how B-Sticking helped Lucas and Ness so much (obviously that won't happen overnight, but we need some way to not have to Up-B against these characters).

 

[Xisin]

So not even the good Marths on wifi such as Bardull and Nabster count?

I have 2 decent Marths in GA, and I'm still not having much problems facing them

I don't see why you say that you dont have an issue with Marf P1. I have a winning record vs you... but then you always lag john. Marth's pretty bad on wi-fi too and at one point 3 stocking you on lylat cruise.

The only diddy that I have played that beats me is AZ, and our matches are super close usually last stock triple %'s close. I attribute that to him simply being better than i am as of now and knowing the match up. He's also quite different from the rest of the diddy's out there as he plays the match up way differently. Ask him he may tell you what he does as i havent yet picked up on the major thing as of yet. Oh and protip: dont cp AZ to poke stadium melee.

 

[ADHD]

Player 1 your region is garbs except for like 4 ppl, you're obviously going to kill every other person.

 

[Kitamerby]

So lets hear why you feel luigi is harder than marth, because you haven't said anything yet.

Glide toss to SHORYUKEN!


Also, I guess it's been established that Diddy's recovery is pretty punishable against some characters, and easily gimped by others, and that he sucks at killing. Isn't saying otherwise just being in denial? I think it would be a good idea to see if there are any special angles that might help his recovery not get gimped or to research new kill setups, although I'm sure you guys have already been doing that. <<

Also, Diddy gets wrecked by Lucario lol.
10advantageousmatchups.

 

[Player-1]

I don't see why you say that you dont have an issue with Marf P1. I have a winning record vs you... but then you always lag john. Marth's pretty bad on wi-fi too and at one point 3 stocking you on lylat cruise.

The only diddy that I have played that beats me is AZ, and our matches are super close usually last stock triple %'s close. I attribute that to him simply being better than i am as of now and knowing the match up. He's also quite different from the rest of the diddy's out there as he plays the match up way differently. Ask him he may tell you what he does as i havent yet picked up on the major thing as of yet. Oh and protip: dont cp AZ to poke stadium melee.

Well our connection IS bad...that's why I usually don't like playing you...and I have no idea what you're talking about me being 3 stocked or anything, but I'm not going to argue with you, don't bring wifi in on this when it comes to records...

I still don't have that much problems with Marth, ADHD, my region isn't 'garbage' per say. Most of the players are decent, not terrible 3 stock you every game, but we have 5 other people beside me who are actually good good, and then we have like 3 people who are just good.

I still don't see why Marth is such a terrible matchup, and i won't change my opinion until I actually play a Marth that makes me feel as helpless as Luigi does

 

[fource]

I still don't see why Marth is such a terrible matchup, and i won't change my opinion until I actually play a Marth that makes me feel as helpless as Luigi does

Go to Whobo.

 

[ADHD]

Lol lucario is only 45-55 XD

 

[Kitamerby]

Lol lucario is only 45-55 XD

Now I'm curious. How do you figure that? Lucario seems to be the ideal anti-Diddy character barring Marth. A great, powerful projectile that ignores bananas, meaning that any glide toss can be theoretically punished with this move due to the inability to shield during a glide toss, able to gimp Diddy's recovery relatively easily, outranges, outspaces, supposedly has a similar glide toss to Diddy Kong, doesn't die, and gets stronger as he takes on damage? All I can think of for Diddy is that he has some banana techs which are probably able to be replicated by Lucario to an extent, a dash attack more suitable to catching bananas, combos, and the fact that Lucario's trip animation is relatively short, allowing even more combos?


I can imagine if you factor in the fact that most Diddies generally would know how to use their bananas better than the Lucario would, it might be that way, but if the Lucario is on an even playing field, meaning that he knows just as many banana techs as the Diddy does, I can't imagine it being that even.

 

[Player-1]

Now I'm curious. How do you figure that? Lucario seems to be the ideal anti-Diddy character barring Marth. A great, powerful projectile that ignores bananas, meaning that any glide toss can be theoretically punished with this move due to the inability to shield during a glide toss, able to gimp Diddy's recovery relatively easily, outranges, outspaces, supposedly has a similar glide toss to Diddy Kong, doesn't die, and gets stronger as he takes on damage? All I can think of for Diddy is that he has some banana techs which are probably able to be replicated by Lucario to an extent, a dash attack more suitable to catching bananas, combos, and the fact that Lucario's trip animation is relatively short, allowing even more combos?


I can imagine if you factor in the fact that most Diddies generally would know how to use their bananas better than the Lucario would, it might be that way, but if the Lucario is on an even playing field, meaning that he knows just as many banana techs as the Diddy does, I can't imagine it being that even.

Go back to the Lucario boards and read the matchup, we already had a discussion on this. Not one Lucario said that it wasn't 55-45 Lucario's favor or 50-50

 

[Kitamerby]

Go back to the Lucario boards and read the matchup, we already had a discussion on this. Not one Lucario said that it wasn't 55-45 Lucario's favor or 50-50

Hmmm, I didn't notice they already discussed Diddy Kong. I guess I just need more Diddy Kong experience.

Oh well. Serves me right for being biased off of past discussions and not keeping up with recent discussions of the matchup.

Great, now I need to do more research to see if I've missed any new discussions on other characters. Thanks for that.

 

[BoRn]

I struggle with my banana game. Against most people, straight banana tossing works so I do it.
When I play better MKs in my crew like Domo and Affinity my banana game gets totally wrecked.
I immediately throw as soon as I have a banana and almost never think of mixing it up, partly because I don't know how.
I should probably ask Nynja but I never get around to it.


Edit: I can't ****ing stand the IC match up. If I get grabbed I'm wrecked and then they can grab both bananas and **** Diddy with B and side B then running away. Its so annoying.

playing against domo and affinity is already gonna be hard cause of the amount of diddy practice they have against me as my local rivals. Most good players read diddy easily so you have to stay random and keep them on their game. also mk is one of the characters now that i dont go off the stage with in a serious match any more. i works out sometimes but the amount of times and how easy it is to fail out there is way higher then the success rate. well work on it some time.

 

[Dekar173]

Luigi is tougher than Marth, he may be lacking in range but the number 1 thing that hurts us is the lack of follow-ups after tripping. I don't even attempt to follow up any more against Luigi when I trip him, I just try and get some peanut arced traps going, and eventually I attempt to ledgeguard (offstage can be risky, but worth it, gimp his torpedo with a naner, then spike :D)

Marth on the other hand, is too easy. He can't approach us if we set up with the bananas properly. It's kind of like playing against DK, because he's so easily punished when he's getting back on the ground or attempting to approach.

MK is a better Marth, we all know this. Going by the logic that a lot of you go by (Diddy runs even with MK) how far of a stretch could it be in your mind that Diddy is a hard counter to Marth?

Play it right, and you should NEVER lose to Marth. The same goes for DK.

 

[ADHD]

No There is a HUGE difference between marth in general and a top level marth, when you play someone like NEO or Roy R you will feel how dumb that matchup is. Luigi is tough but it takes alot of creativity and you can't play it usual AT ALL. That's the thing about diddy, you have to switch it up for every single matchup and if you play the same for them all you get *****. MK is dead even on neutrals and ps1, I will be as stubborn as hell and nobody can unconvince me. Btw marth is far superior to fighting diddy than metaknight in multiple ways.

 

[Player-1]

No There is a HUGE difference between marth in general and a top level marth, when you play someone like NEO or Roy R you will feel how dumb that matchup is. Luigi is tough but it takes alot of creativity and you can't play it usual AT ALL. That's the thing about diddy, you have to switch it up for every single matchup and if you play the same for them all you get *****. MK is dead even on neutrals and ps1, I will be as stubborn as hell and nobody can unconvince me. Btw marth is far superior to fighting diddy than metaknight in multiple ways.

Well you said that Marth is only Diddy's hardest matchup if they know your playstyle, which I feel it's like that for any character that's good against Diddy.

 

[Dekar173]

I've played almost every Marth from Texas, including Roy R. It's an easy match-up. When I get some vids of me vs the local Marth I'll show you guys how it can be made easy. If you get Marth off the ledge, that should be minus 1 stock, even if you're playing nonana Diddy.

I 3-stocked JunkintheTrunk twice at WHOBO, during the second match he just suicided and walked away when he was being edge guarded on his third stock.

It's an EXTREMELY easy match-up, just like DK, Ike, Ganon, or CF. The Marth has to approach, so you're automatically at an advantage. The only thing that can lose this match for you is terrible mistakes, or playing too aggressively.

 

[white peachy]

I've played almost every Marth from Texas, including Roy R. It's an easy match-up. When I get some vids of me vs the local Marth I'll show you guys how it can be made easy. If you get Marth off the ledge, that should be minus 1 stock, even if you're playing nonana Diddy.

I 3-stocked JunkintheTrunk twice at WHOBO, during the second match he just suicided and walked away when he was being edge guarded on his third stock.

It's an EXTREMELY easy match-up, just like DK, Ike, Ganon, or CF. The Marth has to approach, so you're automatically at an advantage. The only thing that can lose this match for you is terrible mistakes, or playing too aggressively.

...Doesn't the marth use F-airs to negate your banana placement? His approach is so good on diddy. And gimping marth is easy once he's offstage? I don't see how this matchup could be "easy." DK I can somewhat see because you can camp him fairly well, but I don't see how marth could be classified as "easy."


.........Explain please. The only time I get a gimp on a GOOD marth is either timing a instant ledgehog perfectly or getting a lucky spike. And most of the time I don't even try because it's so dangerous. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact he's living to 150% and there's nothing I can do...

Maybe it's possible Neo's Marth is just a bad matchup for diddy.

 

[Player-1]

I've played almost every Marth from Texas, including Roy R. It's an easy match-up. When I get some vids of me vs the local Marth I'll show you guys how it can be made easy. If you get Marth off the ledge, that should be minus 1 stock, even if you're playing nonana Diddy.

I 3-stocked JunkintheTrunk twice at WHOBO, during the second match he just suicided and walked away when he was being edge guarded on his third stock.

It's an EXTREMELY easy match-up, just like DK, Ike, Ganon, or CF. The Marth has to approach, so you're automatically at an advantage. The only thing that can lose this match for you is terrible mistakes, or playing too aggressively.

lolno .

 

[fource]

we'll work on it some time.

Awesome.

Well you said that Marth is only Diddy's hardest matchup if they know your playstyle, which I feel it's like that for any character that's good against Diddy.

He said Diddy in general, not specific to Marth.

It's an EXTREMELY easy match-up, just like DK, Ike, Ganon, or CF. The Marth has to approach, so you're automatically at an advantage. The only thing that can lose this match for you is terrible mistakes, or playing too aggressively.

Bull****. Why would you even think of edge guarding Marth? There is absolutely no way that should be effective at all; if Marth so much as touches the "Attack" button or C-Stick while you're edge guarding, Diddy should get punished.
As far as Marth being at a disadvantage because he has to approach; Marth has to do this in every single match up he has, a lot like Meta-Knight don't you think? That does not constitute as a disadvantage at all.

This is an awful, awful match-up for Diddy, regardless of how close you get to capturing the final stock does not make it any easier getting Marth to that stock.

 

[Player-1]

Awesome.



He said Diddy in general, not specific to Marth.



Bull****. Why would you even think of edge guarding Marth? There is absolutely no way that should be effective at all; if Marth so much as touches the "Attack" button or C-Stick while you're edge guarding, Diddy should get punished.
As far as Marth being at a disadvantage because he has to approach; Marth has to do this in every single match up he has, a lot like Meta-Knight don't you think? That does not constitute as a disadvantage at all.

This is an awful, awful match-up for Diddy, regardless of how close you get to capturing the final stock does not make it any easier getting Marth to that stock.

you wouldn't know, he was the AiB chat when he was telling me this

 

[Darknid]

Marth is easy to edgeguard. I WOP him as DK and since I can do it as Mario and Weegee as well, I bet Diddy's bair could do it. You also have some nice projectiles and a nice spike.

Anyways, nothing is holding your ***** monkey back. Diddy has some of the fewest bad matchups in the game, and doesn't have one atrocious matchup like some other chars with few bad matchups(Snake, DK, ROB, Wario). You have few weaknesses and many strengths. Your character is based mainly on skill, the more advanced Diddys become, the higher he will rise. I don't doubt he could make 3rd place easily.

 

[ADHD]

Its called retarted scenarios, anyone ever heard of DDD on castle seige? These are the little things that stop him. If you lose the first match of a set against mk, that set is pretty much over. Its why I don't think he'll ever be higher than 4th on the tier list.

 

[Kirbster13]

Tell it to Texas Marths then I guess.

Also, huge typo by me being "edge guard" when I meant ledgeguard. He may make it to the ledge, but you can send him right back off.

As for playing against DK, camping is EXACTLY what you do. It's gay, but then again that's what they chose to be up against when they picked DK. Play like this against Marth too, and it'll become easier for you.




4RCE: "As far as Marth being at a disadvantage because he has to approach; Marth has to do this in every single match up he has, a lot like Meta-Knight don't you think? That does not constitute as a disadvantage at all."

The reasoning behind this sentence is a little bit off. Just because Marth is forced to approach say... Wario, or ROB, doesn't mean he's going to be accustomed to and able to approach Diddy (who has a plethora of tools at his disposal, on top of the trap that is the banana.)

IMO everyone saying Marth is a tough match-up is playing too aggressively, or just not gay enough

DK isn't just easy, it's absolutely unwinnable for the big ape.

GG Dekar posting on someone else's account. <.< haha.

 

[fource]

Marth is easy to edgeguard. I WOP him as DK and since I can do it as Mario and Weegee as well, I bet Diddy's bair could do it. You also have some nice projectiles and a nice spike.

This goes back to what ADHD was saying earlier about separating Marth from a GOOD Marth. I guess what I mean is the only situation Marth would have to block an edge guard is when he is at a lower percent; almost every smart Marth will recover diagonally down from the stage. Of course, simply grabbing the edge seems easy but almost impossible because of how fast Marth's up special is.

In terms of Dair, any and every situation that Diddy can dair in, Marth can fair faster. The most popular is dash attack dair and the animation can't finish fast enough.

Diddy can not edge guard a smart Marth who knows the match-up.

4RCE: "As far as Marth being at a disadvantage because he has to approach; Marth has to do this in every single match up he has, a lot like Meta-Knight don't you think? That does not constitute as a disadvantage at all."

The reasoning behind this sentence is a little bit off. Just because Marth is forced to approach say... Wario, or ROB, doesn't mean he's going to be accustomed to and able to approach Diddy (who has a plethora of tools at his disposal, on top of the trap that is the banana.)

IMO everyone saying Marth is a tough match-up is playing too aggressively, or just not gay enough

Bananas should not be a factor in Marth's Diddy game in my opinion. Smart Marths will run SH and do 2 fairs. If no banana is thrown than Marth will have a field day. If thrown on the first fair than Marth will have a banana. If thrown on the 2nd fair than again, Marth will have a banana and possibly hit Diddy in the face from the lag of the throw animation. I'm not saying that Marth eliminates bananas being good, just that they aren't as big or a threat to a lot of the other characters and I think Marth can strip them from Diddy the best.

Also, I'm aware overly aggressive Diddy's get ***** here, Diddy has to switch up playing style in virtually every match-up. This is arguably the most laid back. In terms of Diddy having a plethora of things to use to camp. Diddy has two (which is ironically the same amount as ROB...gee...look at that). Peanut gun against Marth is pretty situational and I do not feel like going into that right now.

I'm not trying to make this match-up sound impossible because it obviously isn't. I do not think that Diddy has a match-up he can not work around. Just that saying stupid **** like Diddy can edge guard Marth makes no sense. It's more absurd that more than one person think it's true.

 

[Le_THieN]

KOS-MOS is one of my crew-mates and has recently become a dedicated Peach main after months of floating between her, Marth, Snake and Meta Knight, all of which have ***** my Diddy. He's recently emerged in these last couple of months as the number one contender for the best Peach main in the nation, and has taken her meta-game into his clutches and is slowly but surely rewriting entire match-ups all on his own.

Chris (KM) and I were talking about our respective worst match-ups at a Smash-fest this past Friday evening, and three months ago, I would have said that Marth was my personal worst match-up. Over the course of these last several weeks, I've been hard at work developing a couple of setups against Marth that have, so far, made the match-up a great deal more tolerable (although it's still a little ways off from being as comfortable as some other match-ups). One of them I actually came up with while I was sparring with Roy_R at WHOBO; he is still able to **** me pretty badly, but I was able to at least take convincing matches off of him this time around, as well. My sentiment at the moment is that this match-up will always hover around 4:6; not too terribly big of a disadvantaged margin, but big enough to still be a persistent headache in the coming months.

But although Marth is no longer at the forefront of my nightmares, Peach has pretty much rushed back in to fill that void.

I can't remember the last time I convincingly won against KOS-MOS' all-new, all-**** Peach. FlipHop, Gness and I all call him the Diddy Killer, because we never win against him. I haven't completely decided whether or not Peach is actually that proficient of an anti-Diddy weapon, or if Chris is just being phenomenal in a number of match-ups that are supposedly even or against his favor, but I do know that I'm going to be completely dreading it if more and more Peaches start popping up around our region (as they already have started to) emulating his unorthodox rush-down.

I pretty much scrapped everything I thought I ever knew about the Peach match-up, so that I can go back the drawing board and actually take a look at her move set. Things aren't very promising at the moment, but I hope it's just a matter of time before I figure out what to do (besides run hard and fast, which occasionally works) in the midst of this whirlwind of ****.

EDIT: As an aside, I also wanted to add that I absolutely love the flurry of progressive and intelligent activity that the Diddy Forums have been brimming with during these last five or six weeks. Fresh faces always help, but it's an immense relief that everyone is so eager and enthusiastic to learn from each other.

I personally consider this a big compliment, because I used to hate the Diddy Boards, especially when some scrubby n00b named ADHD popped up outta nowhere last summer and started posting five new threads a day. =)

 

[Hylian]

Chris just has a ****ing amazing Peach. It really doesn't make sense how he can be that good with peach. I've played Azen, Niko_K, Edreese, and several other really good peach players and none of them even come close to Chris :/. He plays so differently as well it's hard to catch on or adapt to anything he's doing.

Try fullhopping more against him though .

 

[Count]

I've played the best peach in the MW (I barely lost) and that was rough for me, so I sort of understand how difficult a good peach can be. Obviously not one at KM's level though. I definitely consider peach within diddy's five hardest matchups though..that's pretty crazy that he basically always beats three diddy mains as solid as you three southerners.

 

[Dekar173]

If your entire game is ruined by a Marth SHDFing you 4RCE, you're not thinking hard enough about how to counter it.

Peanut traps: bait the fair(s). If he catches a peanut with fair, hello punish city (useless projectile, just be careful of his dancing blade). If he takes the peanut, he's in for a world of pain via punishment. If he airdodges the peanut (maybe even catching it, who cares) once again, hello punish city, that's airtime that he had BETTER be spending retreating, even then diddy hump is going to catch him.

If he grabs a banana while slashing your peanut, this is where some true thought is required on your part. Do you have a banana in hand? If so, **** this fool. If not, let's think:

SHFFfair? Only if you feel confident that you'll catch the banana if he throws it at you, or are spaced close enough to him that this is a nobrainer.

pop-gun? NO. Banana will go through the peanut, and trip you, possibly leading into a naner lock being initiated AGAINST you! Oh no!

Dash attack grabbing the banana? Sure, if he's a bad Marth. Many of them will DI out of your dash attack and just dragon punch (or even, if they're some flashy, cocky *******, counter you --a)

Fsmash? What's your spacing?

Dash grab? (I usually shield dash if I'm going to grab, it's far less punishable)

Retreat? Sure, HE's the one who has to approach YOU. By no means must you stand and fight him if you feel that you're in a poor position to do so. What harm can be done by resetting the situation?


You all sit here and spew the constant "a Diddy should never be outbanana'd by his opponent!!!!1!1!1oneone" sooooo... What harm can Marth do with a banana in his hand? Bait the throw, and take it back. Rinse and repeat.


The beauty of him being required to approach YOU is the fact that you can FORCE situations by merely being patient. He on the other hand has nothing of the sort at his own disposal.