***What's going on with Smashbros.com?***

[Kujirudo]

I was thinking about Samus' grapple beam right now, and I know that in the Prime series that Samus uses the grapple beam with her left arm (non-arm cannon), as opposed to the old games and the SSB series where the beam came out of her arm cannon. I wonder if Sakurai will make that small change. If so, it would make things interesting, IMO. It would be awesome grappling your opponent and shooting them with small power beam blasts at the same time.

Omg, you're right. How didn't I see that? It's plain stupid that it comes out of her canon in Smash while we see in all 3 Prime games that she uses her left arm for it!

I would say it does. Samus character profile is under 'veteran fighters' the first trailer labled ZSamus as a 'newcomer'.

Exactly. But I still wonder WHY Zamus was shown in the second trailer while Samus wasn't. Was that to make sure that we don't see both of them in a battle so we would discuss more about it? Or hasn't Sakurai made up his own mind about this?

It's very unlikely they would make you use Samus to transform and remove one of her moves. This is of course based off of Doc/Mario.

I never thought of that. If she would really transform ala Zelda, it would remove her Bombs which would be plain stupid.

But it still buggers me. On the previous Smashbros site, there was this description of Samus 'taking her armor off under certain conditions'. This suggests that Samus really WOULD transform into Zamus. But after that little sentence, we've only seen things that kinda confirmed they were separate characters. Maybe they noticed it too that transforming Samus into Zamus wouldn't work out?

 

[Wrath`]

ohhh,shiney.
hmm this should put to rest the "they are the same character"theroey to rest,they are seperat

 

[Stryks]

TWoK: Doubt it, just because he didnt update zamus doesnt mean theyre now seperate, do I have to remind u hat he said UNDER SPECIAL CONDITIONS they'll transform into the other? I doubt that condition is choosing either samus or zamus in the select screen...

anyway this is by far my favorite update, well maybe 2nd next to the final smash update, I dont use samus, but after seeing these pics I may start using her again besides metroid is my favorite series and samus looks AWESOME...

BEST WEEK... EVER

 

[Solid_Sneak]

hmm this should put to rest the "they are the same character"theroey to rest,they are seperat

Not really. Who's to say they won't? They could update the site with their seperate profiles, and jsut say "To be Zero Suit Samus, you must choose Samus, and transform into her."

Maybe they noticed it too that transforming Samus into Zamus wouldn't work out?

I doubt that. There's always a way.

These games are planned out for years. The descision to make such a huge change like Samus turning into Zamus would likely have been made even before they started building. For them to shaft the idea is sort of a waste of effort.

And they do not need do it like Zelda. They could simply have a certain combination of buttons to press, like in so many other fighters.

I'm just led to believe that Samus transforms into Zamus. They have been insinuating this, they showed it in the trailer, and they haven't made any indication that they are seperate. This speculation that Samus and Zamus are seperate is based on info that isn't there.

 

[i8waffles612]

It doesnt say that they are the same characters, but we will just have to wait for more updates about this....

I really hope they are seperate characters

 

[Solid_Sneak]

I still don't get why people perfer them to be seperate. To me, having the option to become speedy in the middle of a fight owns all. Think about it; Say you choose Smaus - great ranged, but not all that fast. So someone counters by choosing Fox. Well TOO BAD MOFO because when the match starts im going ZAMUS LOLOLOL. It makes you unpredictable and I personally hate when for example I really want to play Link, but then someone just gheys me out with Fox or even Marth.

If you could transform and change the very mechanics of your character during the match, it would be the most bad@$$ thing ever.

I think that without a doubt this will be a transformation. It fixes Samus being arguably broken vs. some characters, which was a bit of a problem in the past if I remember.

 

[i8waffles612]

I still don't get why people perfer them to be seperate. To me, having the option to become speedy in the middle of a fight owns all. Think about it; Say you choose Smaus - great ranged, but not all that fast. So someone counters by choosing Fox. Well TOO BAD MOFO because when the match starts im going ZAMUS LOLOLOL. It makes you unpredictable and I personally hate when for example I really want to play Link, but then someone just gheys me out with Fox or even Marth.

If you could transform and change the very mechanics of your character during the match, it would be the most bad@$$ thing ever.

I think that without a doubt this will be a transformation. It fixes Samus being arguably broken vs. some characters, which was a bit of a problem in the past if I remember.

Ok well in the trailer, she turned into Zamus by "breaking out of her suit" So then her suit was "broken" Tell me, how will Zamus turn back into Samus. Will she go around with super glue gluing all her suit peices back togethor?

 

[NukeA6]

I would say it does. Samus character profile is under 'veteran fighters' the first trailer labled ZSamus as a 'newcomer'. It's very unlikely they would make you use Samus to transform and remove one of her moves. This is of course based off of Doc/Mario.

Samus crawl will be the morph ball I command it.

If Samus is a veteran that must make Zamus a seperate character.


I find it strange that there was no mention of Zero Suit in the update.

 

[Solid_Sneak]

Tell me, how will Zamus turn back into Samus. Will she go around with super glue gluing all her suit peices back togethor?

You don't. That's what keeps people from breaking the match by changing back and forth between 2 decent characters. You make the descision to go Samus or Zamus, depending on who your apponent chooses.

 

[Solid_Sneak]

So if they make a profile for Shiek, that means she'll be a seperate character?

 

[Hydde]

Ok well in the trailer, she turned into Zamus by "breaking out of her suit" So then her suit was "broken" Tell me, how will Zamus turn back into Samus. Will she go around with super glue gluing all her suit peices back togethor?

LOLOL


In response to the guy who posted about the awesomeness of samus being able to turn into zamus....


I just htink it would be tooo cheap. Samus is already a very strong character who can kick the *** of almost all the chars in the game.She have,together with falco, the best proyectile game in melee. Now add to her arsenal the option of turning into a Sheik wanna be...and thats it..... ownage, blood and despair.


It would be too broken IMO,

 

[Stryks]

NO cause shes a newcomer, she'll be on the newcomer list, im bettin like mario has his final smash in his profile, and pit has his special moves, theyll place how zamus transforms under her profile... and solid snake WHERE are u gettin the info that once ur zamus ur stuck with her?

Look samus in MP2 can take off her suit at will, the suit dismaterializes and the zamus is revealed, just cause in the trailer the armor was broken, DOESNT MEAN the armor HAS to brake to use zamus, this is only speculation I know, but im bettin the armor braked in the trailer to make it more dramatic, anyway im sure samus under the spcial condition can change suits at will, how exaclty is that? who knows...

 

[Solid_Sneak]

It would be too broken IMO,

Play vs. Shiek with Samus.

NO cause shes a newcomer, she'll be on the newcomer list, im bettin like mario has his final smash in his profile, and pit has his special moves, theyll place how zamus transforms under her profile... and solid snake WHERE are u gettin the info that once ur zamus ur stuck with her?

Well I'm just thinking logically here.

If Samus could transform back and forth, that would be pretty lame because you're getting speed AND increadible ranged, along with insane get-back.. Which could arguably destroy anyone. Why isn't Shiek broken like that? Well, no down-b, plus Zelda is near-useless anyway.

If she could change back and forth it would be like having someone choose Fox, and then randomly switch to Marth whenever they needed it most.

Knowing that these prgrammers want to keep the game fair and balanced, without ruining move-sets or characters....

You shouldn't be able to go back to Samus. And you can hold me to my word on this one. I hereby declare that that's how it's going to be. And when they DO show how this works to us, I'll laugh.

 

[Stryks]

But thats the thing, zamus is more on melee attacks (havin the whip and all) while samus is long range, samus will be heavy while zamus will be light, samus will have strenght while zamus doesnt samus will be slow while zamus will be fast, point is the character will be balanced, when u should change in mid battle between characters will be the key to master both characters...

The only reason sheik was broken is because of her moveset, not because she can change into zelda, sakurai knows hes giving the character with more range weapons a shiek-like character, thus instead of just being a plain old transformation, they'll transform under a condition, thus u wont have freedom to change between characters at ur will thus not making them broken, once u transform into zamus u may have to wait for the condition to appear AGAIN to change back, thus if it was a wrong move to transform, ull have to live with it...

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I honestly think that the trailer was just meant to be a cool way of introducing ZS Samus, I don't think it was meant to suggest that ZS Samus is a transformation. The site may have suggested that it was a transformation, but the comments were vague and it doesn't help that it was a rough translation from what Sakurai said on the Japanese site. Until we get some hard proof of either scenario, it's kind of useless to argue about it.

I'd rather they were separate characters (as I don't see the need of Samus transforming into another character, she's fine the way she is), though as long as I can play as either whenever I want I guess it'd be okay. One of the things that's turned me off the transformation idea is all the horrible ways people suggest they should do it (final smash and at high % mainly).

 

[Roy Dynasty]

If Samus is a veteran that must make Zamus a seperate character.

I don't see how that proves they are separate. How could they not put Samus under Veteran fighters? She's been in all 3 smashes now. Just because she can *supposedly* transform means she should be under newcomers? Even though this is her third game? What would you want her categorized under?

Introducing Zamus as a newcomer in the trailer was purely to show that it was a new character in the game. It wouldn't make sense if she showed up with no introduction or if it said Veteran fighter for her, so they put newcomer. This doesn't mean she's separate.

And why does everyone want her separate? She will have similar moves to Samus and will take up another space on the character select screen. I'd take a brand new character over Zamus anyday...I'm the least excited about her and I'm a frequent Samus user.

Whoever had the idea that she should be similar to an alternate costume, and that Dr. Mario and Young Link should be, too, that was a great idea.

 

[Doggalina]

And why does everyone want her separate? She will have similar moves to Samus and will take up another space on the character select screen. I'd take a brand new character over Zamus anyday...I'm the least excited about her and I'm a frequent Samus user.

I doubt she will have similar moves to Samus.

And on the topic of whether or not she should be separate:

• If Zamus is separate, wouldn't it be a whole lot simpler? I think it would be.

• If Zamus is at all like Shiek (not in terms of moves, but in terms of general "tier placement"), then wouldn't a Zamus/Samus combo be like a Shiek/Samus combo in Melee? That possibility scares me.

 

[Bowserlick]

TWoK: Doubt it, just because he didnt update zamus doesnt mean theyre now seperate, do I have to remind u hat he said UNDER SPECIAL CONDITIONS they'll transform into the other? I doubt that condition is choosing either samus or zamus in the select screen...

BEST WEEK... EVER

Special conditions could easily mean a way to unlock a secret character. Just like in Melee Mario "under certain conditions" (Beating CLASSIC mode with Mario) will put on a labcoat and open up another character slot on the roster (Dr. Mario).

 

[LukeFonFabre]

And why does everyone want her separate? She will have similar moves to Samus and will take up another space on the character select screen. I'd take a brand new character over Zamus anyday...I'm the least excited about her and I'm a frequent Samus user.

Huh? Have you seen the trailer? ZS Samus fights nothing like Samus, not even close. And it's not like Mario and Dr.Mario didn't take two slots on the character screen, and those two were practically identical.

And the reason I want them to be separate is so I can play as either when I want. As I said, as long as they enable you to switch between the two freely I wouldn't mind so much. However, the problem is that it could result in Samus being altered (either one of her moves changed, or is nerfed due to the fact that she can transform into another character), which I personally don't want. Keeping them separate is really the best way to do it IMO.

 

[Hydde]

Please take in consideration that Zamus will posses the battle speed and agility that Samus dont. It will cover the weak point of her and will eventually result in a broken character!!!!

 

[Aki-toriko]

I'd like the two to be seperate, because I want to play as them whenever I want, not at random, and a Zelda/Sheik combo would kill Samus' moveset.
The certain conditions talk on the old dojo site was pretty vague, and could have meant that ZSS would be an unlockable as well as a seperate form for Samus. Besides that was almost a year ago now, and they'll have had plenty of time to change their minds.
As for the E3 trailer, well, I think a lot of people are reading into it a bit too much.

 

[Solid_Sneak]

But it simply doesn't make sense to say she'll be seperate when they've SHOWN it in the trailer, AND they insinuated it. People are just thinking way too hard about this IMO.

If Zamus is separate, wouldn't it be a whole lot simpler? I think it would be.

Why? I don't think it would make much of a difference. As I said before, what if Samus starts with a massive blast move that you can only use once, and that turns you into Zamus. You could just do it right off the bat.
And even if having Zamus seperate was simpler, I don't think it would be by much. It would take up a char slot.

If Zamus is at all like Shiek (not in terms of moves, but in terms of general "tier placement"), then wouldn't a Zamus/Samus combo be like a Shiek/Samus combo in Melee? That possibility scares me.

No because there will be no combo. You'll have to choose one over the other, I garuntee this.

Allowing the slower, ranged-focused, floaty Samus to transform into the speedy, more melee, and light Zamus adds way more merit to choosing Samus! I don't know how you can argue against this, it's just a fact. I think Sakurai knows this, and it boggles my mind to think he'd choose not to do this. remember that a vast number of people thought that Samus was broken in Melee.

But thats the thing, zamus is more on melee attacks (havin the whip and all) while samus is long range, samus will be heavy while zamus will be light, samus will have strenght while zamus doesnt samus will be slow while zamus will be fast, point is the character will be balanced, when u should change in mid battle between characters will be the key to master both characters...

Samus is actually great melee, shes just not all that fast and extremely floaty. However, Samus IS range over melee, and her ranged rocks. Now if you could go from focused melee (Zamus) to focused ranged (Samus) on the fly, it would be pretty **** imba. It's like giving fox a feature to shoot devestating ranged like Samus when he sees the need to. Not gonna happen bro.

And please, shut up about how if it was like Zelda/Shiek it would screw up the move set. They are not going to remove Samus' bombs, and they aren't going to devote a move to the transformation. It could just be a button combination. You know, like how in A LOT of other fighters you do moves.

 

[THK]

And why does everyone want her separate? She will have similar moves to Samus and will take up another space on the character select screen. I'd take a brand new character over Zamus anyday...I'm the least excited about her and I'm a frequent Samus user.

She would not have the same movelist. That's nearly impossible. Few moves could be similar like the uptilt, nair and uair for examples, but the rest can't be done without her suit.

I too believe that the way she appeared in the trailer was just a fancy way of introducing her. And that special conditions thing could stand for anything, like UNLOCKING.

 

[Dacvak]

I'm a huge Samus player, so here's my thought on this...

Samus is borderline broken as it stands. With her awesome Wavedash, double-missile cancel, and ability to recover on almost any stage, she's one of the best characters, especially against slower characters.

In all honesty, i can't see her having her alter-ego Zamus transformable in-game. Not unless they totally nerfed her initial powers. That would give Samus too much of an edge, and she's already a great character.

I think the video where Samus "blew up" her suit was just for shock value, to show that Zamus is in the game. I really think they're going to be seperate.

~Dac

 

[LukeFonFabre]

But it simply doesn't make sense to say she'll be seperate when they've SHOWN it in the trailer, AND they insinuated it. People are just thinking way too hard about this IMO.

As far as the trailer is concerned, I think people are looking into it too much. It really just seems like they wanted to introduce ZS Samus in what they thought would be a cool. If anything it'd make a good intro (if they return).

The only insinuation they had was a vague translation which could be interpreted either way. There really has been no hardcore proof that she is a result from transforming from Samus, so all we can do is wait for whatever day we get the ZS Samus update and see if he mentions anything about it there (assuming he does include it alongside the update)

 

[Toasty!]

I see tentacles. And Leather Like Materials.

Proven, Zamus has sexier materials than Samus.

 

[Solid_Sneak]

I see tentacles. And Leather Like Materials.

Proven, Zamus has sexier materials than Samus.

QFT. We can all agree on this.

 

[TigerBlade34]

I have a feeling we'll get a Zamus update next week. Also, I think Samus and ZSS are separate since they would've put Samus and ZSS in the update as one character.

 

[GreenMamba]

Zelda and Sheik had seperate profile pages on the old Melee website, so that theory is bogus.

 

[Black/Light]

. . . Wow, the Samus debate has started again.

Well, all this BS about how Zero would take up a character slot if she is alone needs to stop. If they take out the time to make a NEW character model, make NEW animations for said model, make NEW moves/ hit boxes and stats for said model, make a them song dance and what not for said model than it's a new character and took up the time that could have been used on another new character so it still takes up a "slot" either way.

 

[Pichu_815]

Whoa... My last impression was that everyone thought the Final Smash would cause the transformation. Maybe I just haven't been reading all that well. Anyway, that's still my guess, that using the Final Smash would cause a suit overheat (or something of that nature), and Zamus to appear.

 

[bibbty]

Well personally i think the only way that Samus should transform is by a taunt. I have seen a couple of threads on here about multiple taunts so instead of taking away a move take away a taunt. IMO

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright. Here is my theory on the Zamus/ Samus issue.

I am pretty sure that they will be separate characters with their own selection box.

Some people claim that this will take up space on the roster.

I am not sure if people understand that Zamus is going to take the same amount of time to make if she is tacked onto Samus or her separate character. Yes, she will need her own box. But there are infinite layouts possible to contain all the characters and still look presentable. I do not think they would scrap a character because they designed a five by five grid and had 26 characters, thus cutting one so there would only be 25 boxes.

Other people qupte the old website saying that "under certain conditions Samus will take off her suit."

First, you have to take the sentence in context. Sakurai is Japanese. The post is in English. Languages do not translate by a word to word basis. There are words that have no real equivalent from language to language. All of Sakurai's posts on the current website are a little strange in their translation. So you cannot interpret the sentence just based on the most common English way of breaking it down.

So, did that paragraph have a point? Yes. Under certain conditions can mean being unlocked. Lets pretend this old website contained Doctor Mario. It could say "under certain conditions" Mario puts on his labcoat. And it would be true. If you beat classic mode with Mario you will fullfill the CONDITIONS and Mario will have a labcoat. BUT you can still play as Mario. And guess what? Sakurai said after that sentence," Don't worry, you can still play as Samus." Just think about it.

The most common reason for people linking the quote with the theory that Samus will transform into Zamus during battle is because the video also contained final smashes.

BUT the scene where Samus blasts off her suit does not come immediately after the finale smashes. It is a way of introducing the character.

BECAUSE people watching the video who did not know who was under the suit would understand that there is a hot broad under there.

That is where the confusion comes in.

Plus lets think about it this way. If Samus turns into Zamus only if she uses a Smash finale, the percentage would be low in getting her (unless finales were turned on high; and then you are not really smashing, you are racing). You would need Samus on the stage. Items would have to be on. A smash orb would have to appear. And Samus (slow) would have to get it. And then use it before dying. Alot of steps in getting a character that the development team worked on as much as the other characters. So basically a wasted character and wasted time.

And having Samus start with a super plasma ball is unfair. Why should she start with her Smash finale, especially if items are turned off.

Plus Samus is well balanced. If she has two forms then she would have to be nerfed how she is.

And now I am gonna offer a counter point with another theory (so this point is easier to ignore). I am almost certain that Zamus is a Sheik replacement for three reasons.

1. The morph mechanic was good in theory just like communism. But it turns out it ain't so hot. Because many people find their niche in a character. They like the heavy hitters, or the speed characters, or the all around guys. Switching goes back and forth between these niches. THUS one character might just be chosen over the other. Yes, the mechanic was not executed properly, but even if it was I do not think many people would really like play with that character.

2. Zamus seems to have stolen Sheik's archetype. Fast, ninja looking girl with a whip and similar moves. Trades stamina and strength for agility and speed. EVen the clothing is similar to Sheik. Now this point can be countered with the Jiggs/Kirby comparison. BUT Sheik seemed like a one shot character. A small cameo in one game. The Zelda series has moved on and Zelda had two different roles since then. Both excluding Sheik.

3. Sakurai said he wanted female characters. So if Sheik is out, the female percentage drops. What is the solution. Zamus! Same build and armed to the teeth with fighting knowledge.

So if Zamus is a Sheik archtype replacement and the morph mechanic was not that popular, then it would make more sense if Zamus was her own character as fan service. And as Sakurai said to further rep the Metroid series.

 

[Aki-toriko]

^^ well said. You've covered every point thats needed to be covered.
A Samus/Zamus transformation mid Brawl does not under any circumstances make as much sense as having them as seperate characters, particularly if Samus transforms at random via a final Smash. I think all this 'certain circumstances' and 'OMG Samus transforms in the trailer' talk is a bad case of people reading into things too much.

Has anyone mentioned how, in terms of Metroid History, how if Samus' suit is destroyed she is destroyed with it? There goes the theory of her suit being destroyed in a plasma blast and Zamus emerging from within, becuase if this happens in the Metroid games Samus snuffs it.

 

[Stryks]

I still gotta say no to zamus being a seperate characters, many use to complain how 2 marios can coexist (doc and original), same with y.link and Link, nobody complained about sheik/zelda cause it was transformation, and I like it that way...

If I remember correctly, he said: under certain conditions she'll lose the suit (yes I know bowserlick, just here me out) and will lose stamina and power, and then something about gaining speed, something like that, why would he compare the stats if it was just a plain seperate character? u dont c him compare pits aerial abilities with metaknights, even if theyre the same person he wouldnt compare them unless obcourse its a transformation, which Im sure it is...

God I hope he just reveals how to transform on monday I cant take this >.<

@aki-toriko, I dont recall her losing her suit in a fight, all I ever saw was in MP1, she lost her variasuit cause it was downgraded to the powersuit, thats it, in MP2 she took it off at the end at will, so im guessin she can put it on at will too...

 

[Bowserlick]

People did complain about Zelda and Sheik losing their down B among other things.

Because he is explaining the differences between characters. I think on Doctor Mario's trophy it says somthing about him being a little heavier and slower because he doesn't work out.

Same thing here. He is explaining although they are the "same" character they play differently. Thats all. Y. Link and Link play differently. And they don't transform. Your point is a little flimsy I think.

 

[GenG]

Have this been posted before?

 

[Stryks]

Yeah I get what ur saying, its just how I understoof it ws that after the certain condition appears, samus will transform into zamus, thus by doing this she'll lose stamina and strenght, but will gain speed, not exactly comparing but kinda like explaining the pros and cons of the transformation, meh IDK, the worse part of is is that were gonna talk samus/zamus theories all weekend long >.<

 

[Aki-toriko]

Samus can take her suit off at will, but if the suit is destoyed while she is in it she dies as its linked to her metabolic system. This means that (God I sound like a complete fanboy saying this), what we saw in the trailer cannot happen in the Metroid series. This gives more weight to the argument against Samus taking damage in order to activate Zamus (but leaves the 'change at will like Zelda/Sheik' argument intact).

I think its just a case of 'wait and see'. Personally I think a Samus/Zamus transformation would be pointless and fiddly, but I can understand why many would want the mechanic in place, so people could load up Brawl and say 'OMG Samus transforms.'

I think people are reading far too much into non information, on both sides. Lets wait and see what future updates bring eh?

 

[FSLMJM]

I think Samus/Z-Suit are going to be the same character because Sakurai says "under special conditions, Samus will take off her suit." If under special conditions, why would she be a different character on the character selection screen? Makes no sense to me if someone says they're different...