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Creo

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I would have to say after E3. Everyone is gonna be glued to E3 for mostly smash. I know I am watching the whole thing from the 10th to 14th so I don't miss anything because I want Mario Galaxy, MP3:C, Guilty Gear XX Accent Core, and other future release news so I will be abandoned then. When E3 is over though, this site is gonna blow up if we get anything worth the while.
 

Aki-toriko

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 12, 2007
Messages
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I can see it now:-
-Brand new trailer shown, outlining returning characters
-Sonic pops up in the trailer
-Samus and Zamus shown as being seperate characters
-Sheik is missing from the proceedings
-Wiimote on its side proves to be the best control scheme
-No online play
-No Geno
-Smash Boards then promptly explodes:laugh:

(these aren't actualy my predictions, just the required steps needed to make this website a no go zone for the following month)
 

Drascin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
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320
While items do add a level of strategy, and a level of adaptability, they add far more luck.

This is why I do not find playing with items the fairest fight, but they do make the funnest fight.
Exactly! I practice without items, but when I play with my friends, they refuse to play without them, because a) it's much funnier that way, and b) they say I pwn them without the items xD (untrue, because I'm just a scrub, but hey, it's nice ego stroking, so let them say whatever they want :p). And of course, if I just want to fool around, I turn them to very high and start the throw-a-thon ^^.

So yeah, most likely 80% of my time with Brawl will be spent playing with items on. I like them. My only complaint would be, could they please give an option to deactivate the whole "barrels explode at random" thing. I seem to have the ability to attract explosions... I no longer open a barrel by hitting them. I throw-projectile-whatever it, because if I hit them in melee they ALWAYS explode. I'm jinxed, it would seem xD.
 

Creo

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I can see it now:-
-Brand new trailer shown, outlining returning characters
-Sonic pops up in the trailer
-Samus and Zamus shown as being seperate characters
-Sheik is missing from the proceedings
-Wiimote on its side proves to be the best control scheme
-No online play
-No Geno
-Smash Boards then promptly explodes:laugh:

(these aren't actualy my predictions, just the required steps needed to make this website a no go zone for the following month)
You forgot the Tingle part.
Online play=yes.
I don't care for Sheik.
I don't care about the Samus Zamus issue though that is how I think it will turn out.
Sonic is in.
We need a new trailer...you forgot that Yoshi and D.Kong will probably be confirmed.

Exactly! I practice without items, but when I play with my friends, they refuse to play without them, because a) it's much funnier that way, and b) they say I pwn them without the items xD (untrue, because I'm just a scrub, but hey, it's nice ego stroking, so let them say whatever they want :p). And of course, if I just want to fool around, I turn them to very high and start the throw-a-thon ^^.

So yeah, most likely 80% of my time with Brawl will be spent playing with items on. I like them. My only complaint would be, could they please give an option to deactivate the whole "barrels explode at random" thing. I seem to have the ability to attract explosions... I no longer open a barrel by hitting them. I throw-projectile-whatever it, because if I hit them in melee they ALWAYS explode. I'm jinxed, it would seem xD.
That is because you obliviously don't go to tournys or play competively like us.
 

Solid_Sneak

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That is because you obliviously don't go to tournys or play competively like us.
I'm DYING to find a tourney near me (Kitchener/Waterloo). If I do say, I am skilled player that uses wavedashing, lcancelling, short-hop etc, and I have not met a match as Link to date. So if anyone here knows of any, p[lease PM me or SOMETHING...

But yeah, E3 is going to pwn.

For me, ALL I WANT for brawl, is supreme online functionality (2v2's, 1v1's, mbe lobbies, world-wide matches etc.) Ike, and COSTUME CHANGING...

If all we get for Brawl are the current characters we know of, but we ALSO get costumes, Ike, and good online play, I'll honestly be perfectly content.


Anyways, I imagine that for E3 we will get one bad@$$ trailer, revealing Ike, Sonic, and other characters, with new levels, and possibly showcasing the one player mode or even online mode. If we're lucky, there will even be a demo.

I don't think any of that is far-fetched enough to not happen. In fact, I'm willing to put money down that at least half of it will happen.
 

Aki-toriko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
129
Time for my actual E3 predictions now
-New trailer.
-Yoshi and DK confirmed, and possibly Peach, Bowser, Zelda, Ness and Captain Falcon
-Sonic will be the final surprise revealed from the trailer
-Playable version available, with journalists completely divided over which control method works the best.
-I'll be pressing F5 A LOT!!!
 

Solid_Sneak

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Online play is all that's going to matter at E3 when it comes down to it IMO.

Also, the fact that Sakurai has revealed the control method BEFORE E3 is a sign there will be a demo...
 

Green Shell

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Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
462
Items are turned off to show true skill in Smash Bros. Tournaments consider items to be cheap, and would show no skill at all. However, items are still part of the game. It just depends on how you play it.

If I'm practicing, I take items off. But if my friends come over, items will be turned on, to have some fun. You know, fun?
 

bluethree

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First of all, the word "pro" is being thrown around a little too much. A pro gamer is one whose primary source of income is gaming. Calling someone a pro gamer because they play in tournaments or because they know certain techniques is like calling someone a pro poker player because they go to Vegas and play in low limit tournaments.

A truly skilled Smash player won't lose to a n00b just because of items. If items are a factor in winning and losing then the skill difference between the two players isn't that great to begin with.

The problem with items in regard to tournaments is when two players are close to evenly skilled. In these matches, one mistake can put you in a lot of trouble. People who are paying to be in tournaments don't want these mistakes to happen by random chance. When you're playing for money, you don't want your chances ruined by an exploding crate appearing right in front of you as you are front smashing.
 

Creo

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Ohh thank you man!!! I have been thinking on how to sum that up but you said it better than I would have. That is exactly the point so stop complaining people.
that was probably the most dumb and boring conversation I have ever been in...Please start a new discussion.
 

Legolastom

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Eu um hmmm... New conversation.... um... well hmmm...

So Wario what CrAzY moves do you think he will have?
 

Creo

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Well it says a martial arts like no others. The screen shots show him going to bite Kirby, going to do a downwards headbutt to Fox, and the asumation(it is a word now)of his Final smash to be...some flatuence. Obliviously abnormal moves but may be interesting.
 

Devastlian

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Well...I'm sure E3 will bring a trailer, demo, and info including the online structure. But I wouldn't expect a big blow out to happen on the site from E3. We'll probably get the trailer posted on there a couple days after IGN and all the other sites get it and then the site'll continue with stuff we already know from the first and second trailers with random new stuff sprinkled in. Then the we'll get the stuff we know from the third trailer regularly with some occasional new stuff. And then we'll get the TGS trailer if there is one and'll get info on that when the news from the third finishes.

Then, hopefully, the game would be released within the next couple of months.

Ya know, I'm surprised they haven't covered crawling on the site yet. :/
 

baheffron

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I just don't see how crawling could possibly be utilized.. It seems too slow to be useful during actual combat. Hopefully it won't interfere with any other techniques. Of course, there is a possibility that they took it out after the trailer was made; the could have just been experimenting with it. That would explain why it hasn't been mentioned at the website yet. Who knows.
 

Creo

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Well...I'm sure E3 will bring a trailer, demo, and info including the online structure. But I wouldn't expect a big blow out to happen on the site from E3. We'll probably get the trailer posted on there a couple days after IGN and all the other sites get it and then the site'll continue with stuff we already know from the first and second trailers with random new stuff sprinkled in. Then the we'll get the stuff we know from the third trailer regularly with some occasional new stuff. And then we'll get the TGS trailer if there is one and'll get info on that when the news from the third finishes.

Then, hopefully, the game would be released within the next couple of months.

Ya know, I'm surprised they haven't covered crawling on the site yet. :/
E3 will just hold us over if the game is coming out around Christmas. If not, then we get loads but the first seems reasonable. Our big thing will definitely at TGS no doubt.

I just don't see how crawling could possibly be utilized.. It seems too slow to be useful during actual combat. Hopefully it won't interfere with any other techniques. Of course, there is a possibility that they took it out after the trailer was made; the could have just been experimenting with it. That would explain why it hasn't been mentioned at the website yet. Who knows.
Even if it is bad, I am sure we will find something to make it useful. If you can attack like that, it would be good for edgeguarding. It will be useflu for something but we have to wait and see.
 

Dragonboy2k4

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I turn off items and turn them on..
I understand about the crates and boxes.. BUT..
I do believe it does take a different skill to avoid, throw, and use items.

For example..
My friend Bryan who plays as Ganondorf tends to play better with items off.. Why? because he is horrible at avoiding items being thrown at him or used on him. He also isn't that good at timing his tossing and activating the items on time. So his chances of winning drop.. BUT Then there is my friend Rob.. he looses and plays worse with items off. When I turn items on he becomes more of a threat then my friend Bryan. He even knocked my friend Bryan out 4 times in a row with items by chucking them at him. What did I do? Dodge and run.. dodge and run.. and then find the right moment to hit him.
Yes.. some items are not fair.. The hammer is for example.. but it's all luck.

Playing a card game, dominos, and even board games aren't fair. It's all luck..
So.. basically turning off items in smash would sorta be like removing the dice and replacing it by calling the numbers you want.

So items are like cards.. you just need to know how and when to use them.

So why can a noob beat a pro with items? That is maybe because they SUCK at avoiding and dodging items. They never practiced enough with items.. so they aren't that good at dodging or using them.

So I play with and without items.. So I can gain my skills without playing with items and playing with items.

I feel that items make it fun.. so if you have a problem with that just deal with it. I would turn them off without any arguments.. but if we had them on and you started complaining how it isn't fair and it makes it unbalanced, then your a item noob. If you kicked my *** with them off.. I would accept the defeat and say that you kickass without items.

Items make the game more interesting.. it makes it fun, surprising, and always different each time around. It gives it a newer experience and challenge. So there are 2 skills.. Using items and playing as the character without them. There is not just one type of skill.

Turning items off and on could be looked at like giving and taking away a handicap for every person. But if you master both items and going solo.. it's not really a handicap anymore.
Strongly agree.

The problem with items in regard to tournaments is when two players are close to evenly skilled. In these matches, one mistake can put you in a lot of trouble. People who are paying to be in tournaments don't want these mistakes to happen by random chance. When you're playing for money, you don't want your chances ruined by an exploding crate appearing right in front of you as you are front smashing.
Then that person needs to be more cauious than the other.The fighting game is already a risk/chance to begin with,and adding more chances and such makes matches that more exciting to watch rather than seeing the same old same old.And,if money is that much of a factor,it would come down to whos the most aware fighter,with enviroments and such.Luck is in the same boat when someone misses a combo,or leave themselves open to an attack,IT HAPPENS EVERY SO OFTEN.No ones prefect at this game,mistakes happen anyhow,so why alienate something that wouldnt effect pros as you stated?

That also mean that exploding items are NOT 100%,cuz if thats the case,noobs would be able to L cancel and such the 1st time they even try Smash. :laugh:
 

Solid_Sneak

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Well think about that crawl mechanic...

It would make Samus' Super Missles useless...

It would make it impossible for some attacks to strike you so low (you know how it's hard for Ganon to do Neutral - A on Kirby because he's so short? Well..)

With the crawl that Snake does in the trailer, he leaps forward into a crawl position. Perhaps you can get that extra burst of speed at the very end when moving in on a target? Maybe the leap renders you immune for a time?

I think it would add many uses...
 

-Wolfy-

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IMO items really do not have anything to do with the skill of a player. People get lucky, but also, I think that people who solely play items are keeping SSBM in the party-game genre and out of the fighting genre. How is it supposed to be taken seriously by competitive people when they can play a stellar match and have it ruined by a lucky pokeball,bomb, or exploding capsule device?

My verdict: Items can be fun on occasion, but hold no value in the metagame of smash.


I bet the crawl, if attacks(namely projectiles) are possible, will be the greatest thing to ever happen to camping. Assuming it leaves you underneath some projectiles. I mean, it looks as if you could take Snake from brawl, and put him in melee, he would squeeze just under blasters, lasers, and super missiles alike.
 

Johnknight1

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IMO items really do not have anything to do with the skill of a player. People get lucky, but also, I think that people who solely play items are keeping SSBM in the party-game genre and out of the fighting genre. How is it supposed to be taken seriously by competitive people when they can play a stellar match and have it ruined by a lucky pokeball,bomb, or exploding capsule device?

My verdict: Items can be fun on occasion, but hold no value in the metagame of smash.


I bet the crawl, if attacks(namely projectiles) are possible, will be the greatest thing to ever happen to camping. Assuming it leaves you underneath some projectiles. I mean, it looks as if you could take Snake from brawl, and put him in melee, he would squeeze just under blasters, lasers, and super missiles alike.
In the end, the best player almost always wins, period (unless with items very high with only explosives on MK II=all luck)! So stop saying most items don't involve skill, most of them just involve a diffrent type of skill, and diffrent useage. The best player almost always wins, with or without items, any stage, with any character vs. anyother character, teams or 1 on 1's=end of discussion=I win.

Anyways (on subject), about the whole Wario uses martial arts unlike anyone else (unorthodox), I'll laugh if he does sumo wrestling techniques! :chuckle: He'll probably use anywhere from mainly headbutts, flips, ramming attacks, kicks, punches, etc. He'll be the insane psycho he always is and was meant to be, and is=awsome!

And about the crawling, hopefully everyone can crawl=awsome. It could be useful if you think about it, or at least crouching where you're in the crawl position. Hopefully everyone can do it, and hopefully everyone can wall jump this time (I hate playing Link on Fourside=cheap), to balance out the game even more. That would be pretty awsome I guess.
 

Solid_Sneak

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True but I enjoy the fact that every character is unique with their own strategies and moves. IMO wall-jumping or crawling should only be limited to certain characters.
 

-Wolfy-

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Agh. I'm just saying that I don't mean a scrub vs a legit player, I'm talking like if items were used in competitive play, between two competitive, and equally skilled smashers. Your philosophy on best player always wins doesn't even apply since that is barely passable as true. I'm also not saying items don't involve skill, I'm saying they make random fortune a MUCH bigger factor in competition. Now, I want to drop this, but I'll give you the last word.

As for Wario, I bet he is going to be pretty entertaining, and that alot of his moves will involve alot of wreckless abandon like slides, flips, head butts, so on.

I'd also like all of the characters to be able to crawl AND wall jump. I SUPER second the Link on fourside comment JohnKnight.
 

Johnknight1

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Agh. I'm just saying that I don't mean a scrub vs a legit player, I'm talking like if items were used in competitive play, between two competitive, and equally skilled smashers. Your philosophy on best player always wins doesn't even apply since that is barely passable as true. I'm also not saying items don't involve skill, I'm saying they make random fortune a MUCH bigger factor in competition. Now, I want to drop this, but I'll give you the last word.
Depends on the items. The bumper is all skill, and the bomb-omb is at least half luck. It depends on the items, and item frequency. But the best player, and the player who can change gears the most and best almost always beat someone almost as good. It depends on the situation.

As for Wario, I bet he is going to be pretty entertaining, and that alot of his moves will involve alot of wreckless abandon like slides, flips, head butts, so on.

I'd also like all of the characters to be able to crawl AND wall jump. I SUPER second the Link on fourside comment JohnKnight.
Gonna laugh if one of his attacks involves him ramming someone with his belly, lol! :laugh: And Fourside with Link (or any non-wall jumping character) vs. a wall jumping character is lame and unfair. If everyone could wall jump that stage would be used mroe in tourneys, and would be like 1,000 times better!
 

-Wolfy-

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I'm calling it right now. Wario will be THE character to be for embarassing your friends. No doubt.

The old gut slam. Brilliant!
 

Johnknight1

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I'm calling it right now. Wario will be THE character to be for embarassing your friends. No doubt.

The old gut slam. Brilliant!
Don't foget the but slam as well, lol! :chuckle: He could have some hilariously good moves, and taking pics when you pause in camera mode could be the funniest stuff ever=wrong, but hilariously funny! :chuckle: But slam and gut slam ftw!
 

Fanewgie

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I find it mildly funny how every weekend this topic erupts in heated debate and arguement because a lot of us get bored without our nightly update. :x

Wario will definitely be an awesome humiliator, probably up there with the ranks of Melee Yoshi and Jigglypuff. Especially when they reveal how the 'Waft will be used... (as in, a B move or a Final)

i want to see his piledriver from wario world. i always loved to grab the enemies and see wario twirl them in the air and SLAM them into the ground. possible dthrow?
Maybe an upward throw? It could resemble Kirby's piledriver. Downward throws tend to involve tossing them on the ground for a solid hit. Wario will probably sit on them. *nod*

I only rented and played Wario World for a short time... but I love his out-there grab moves too. I'm sure he'll get a few for his Brawl grabs.
 

-Wolfy-

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Agreed. Wario just screams piledriver. And I don't think Jigglypuff losses are all that embarassing. When I feel like being a jerk its between anyone in the bottom tier. I've been working on my bowser for about 4 years now so hes my personal favorite along with DK for embarassment matches. Nothings better than when your up two stocks to one on someone with D.K and you givem the ole' scoop and score suicide for the win. I bet Wario suplexes for his backwards throw.
 

bluethree

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Then that person needs to be more cauious than the other.The fighting game is already a risk/chance to begin with,and adding more chances and such makes matches that more exciting to watch rather than seeing the same old same old.
There's a big difference between taking a chance knowing the risk that's involved and an item randomly appearing in front of you while you're doing a move. Items may be more fun to watch, but tournaments aren't about the spectators. They're about people trying to test their own skills against others. When doing this, people like to have as little random chance as possible.

Luck is in the same boat when someone misses a combo,or leave themselves open to an attack,IT HAPPENS EVERY SO OFTEN.No ones prefect at this game,mistakes happen anyhow,so why alienate something that wouldnt effect pros as you stated?
The more skillful you are, the less mistakes you'll make. Missing a combo is not luck, it's a lack of skill. If you're making more mistakes than your opponent, you just aren't as skilled (or having a bad day) and don't deserve to win the match. It's not random like items.

If you had read my post, I said that items wouldn't effect the result if a skilled player is playing against an unskilled player. They can, however, affect the results of two players at a nearly equal skill level. This is why items are turned off in tournaments. If you are going to lose in a tournament it should be because your opponent played better than you, not because they were more lucky.




A true man uses Pichu to embarass friends :p
 

-Wolfy-

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There's a big difference between taking a chance knowing the risk that's involved and an item randomly appearing in front of you while you're doing a move. Items may be more fun to watch, but tournaments aren't about the spectators. They're about people trying to test their own skills against others. When doing this, people like to have as little random chance as possible.



The more skillful you are, the less mistakes you'll make. Missing a combo is not luck, it's a lack of skill. If you're making more mistakes than your opponent, you just aren't as skilled (or having a bad day) and don't deserve to win the match. It's not random like items.

If you had read my post, I said that items wouldn't effect the result if a skilled player is playing against an unskilled player. They can, however, affect the results of two players at a nearly equal skill level. This is why items are turned off in tournaments. If you are going to lose in a tournament it should be because your opponent played better than you, not because they were more lucky.




A true man uses Pichu to embarass friends :p
Pichu is too good for embarassment matches. If there were anyone near me I would be willing to moneymatch them to prove pichu's undiscovered potential. And it doesn't matter how good peopel are with bowser or dk, you'll jsut never get the benefit of the doubt, and people will always expect to fourstock you.

EDIT: I got so excited about pichu that I completely forgot to mention how much I agree with you on the topic of items. THUMBS UP!
 

bluethree

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I guess it depends on your friends' perception of the character.... that and some people just don't like losing to "cute" characters :p
 

Dragonboy2k4

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There's a big difference between taking a chance knowing the risk that's involved and an item randomly appearing in front of you while you're doing a move. Items may be more fun to watch, but tournaments aren't about the spectators. They're about people trying to test their own skills against others. When doing this, people like to have as little random chance as possible.

The more skillful you are, the less mistakes you'll make. Missing a combo is not luck, it's a lack of skill. If you're making more mistakes than your opponent, you just aren't as skilled (or having a bad day) and don't deserve to win the match. It's not random like items.

If you had read my post, I said that items wouldn't effect the result if a skilled player is playing against an unskilled player. They can, however, affect the results of two players at a nearly equal skill level. This is why items are turned off in tournaments. If you are going to lose in a tournament it should be because your opponent played better than you, not because they were more lucky.

A true man uses Pichu to embarass friends :p
:confused: Didnt me saying it would then come down to the player being more aware mean anything? Items cant explode(with the exception of the Bom-omb) just by you touching them,and as for the spector thing,its kinda the main reason why tournments are dying nowadays to begin with,nor having bigger communities.People are too afraid to take risk anymore,so they take any easy way out of things as much as possible,hence the reason why you see tiers listings(theory list).Showing you characters that are easier to win with if your skill matches/surpasses your opponents.

Iam glad to see that you agree that no one is prefect,but if a preson misses a combo once,that doesnt mean he" lacks the skills"to do it.Cuz face it,if there were such thing as a 100% combo player,his/her name would be known worldwide,or show up in a Hollywood movie or something.

But,I see Iam alone at this,and Iam gonna drop the topic before the mods bust an F-U on me{like John Cena did tonight..:mad:},but I will however leave with one question.If items are such complete randomness,and are things that you have little to no control over thus meaning it must leave you with a do or die predictment to be so dramatic,then why are things like "Shine" ok,reguardless of the universal answer cuz its in the game and takes "skill"answer?Theres things like it being among the quickest moves in the game(frame wise),can K.O at low precentages,can be jump canceled out of just to name a few noticable kinks in it.Just something to ponder about..


Anyway,Iam not in the greatest of mood atm due to the WWE PPV results,so these updates better be smoking hot tonight.Iam either guessing its Snake debut tonight,or a new final smash,preferably Kirbys cuz they been mightly slient on how it works since E3 last year.Hell,we dont know for sure if Links is automatic or not.We got enough levels for now IMO,and they should keep tight lip on those they havent displayed to us yet.
 

Fanewgie

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Anyway,Iam not in the greatest of mood atm due to the WWE PPV results,so these updates better be smoking hot tonight.Iam either guessing its Snake debut tonight,or a new final smash,preferably Kirbys cuz they been mightly slient on how it works since E3 last year.Hell,we dont know for sure if Links is automatic or not.We got enough levels for now IMO,and they should keep tight lip on those they havent displayed to us yet.
Probably an item, as we haven't gotten one in a while now... Sakurai has said he wants third party characters as unlockables, so Snake won't debut for months yet.

..as always, Sakurai's unpredictability can prove me wrong (I should make this part of my signature).
 

lanky_gunner

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The Moon, with the Fierce Deity Mask in hand
NNID
lanky_gunner
3DS FC
3179-6065-1453
Switch FC
SW-6340-2624-9135
you should, since it IS true. i mean first we thought it was going to be a yoshi week, then he surprises us with two final smashs to start the week, and spin it around at us on wed. with wario. who knows what we'll get next
 

CStrife187

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
465
Location
Greensboro, NC
Crates, barrels, and Capsules can all explode when attacked, and can spawn in the threatened area of an attack in progress, and these items can't be turned off. That's the reason that items are turned off for competitive play. Even in items tournaments recovery items, invincibility stars, bob-ombs, hammers are turned off (maybe something else, too, I don't remember). Items are not fair, and skill has nothing to do with when a random item spawns in a random location, and one shouldn't be expected to react to your opponent's sudden, unforeseen, unwaranted invincibility mid-match for no reason other than that an invincibility star appeared next to him/her. Items are fun, but they aren't fair at all.

:edit:
:If items are such complete randomness,and are things that you have little to no control over thus meaning it must leave you with a do or die predictment to be so dramatic,then why are things like "Shine" ok,reguardless of the universal answer cuz its in the game and takes "skill"answer?Theres things like it being among the quickest moves in the game(frame wise),can K.O at low precentages,can be jump canceled out of just to name a few noticable kinks in it.Just something to ponder about..
Shine is under the player's control, and is not random.
 
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