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What to think while you play?

BlueBladeX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Missouri
So recently (about a month ago), I was at a smashfest with players better than me. After getting *****, one of them turns to me and says "you know you have to think while you play right?"

Now I've always known that. But what I didn't know was what to think.

So, I turn to you smashboards, and as my first post I ask this question.

What do you think while you play?
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,272
Location
Oxford, Mississippi. . . . permanent n00b
So recently (about a month ago), I was at a smashfest with players better than me. After getting *****, one of them turns to me and says "you know you have to think while you play right?"

Now I've always known that. But what I didn't know was what to think.

So, I turn to you smashboards, and as my first post I ask this question.

What do you think while you play.
What are you doing wrong, what are you doing right? If your punishes you approach with sheild into a sheild grab, you should be thinking how can I get past that? You can space attacks....or grab....predict it better....or just be less predictable.

You should always be asking yourself what your opponent is going to do and what your opponent is going to expect. So in other words, try to observe your opponent and see how he reacts to what you do or what you not do, then punish him the best you can every time you guess right.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Think about how your opponent is conditioning you to think, and how you are conditioning your opponent to think.

Once you've played enough to do most things by reflex you gain more time to actually try and figure out the person. Like the poster above stated, just try to catch them in some kind of pattern and take advantage of it.

EX: I'm Fox my opponent is Marth, we are about 5 character lengths away from eachother, I charge to test what he will do, he forward smashes, but fortunately for my I had no idea what he would do so I spaced myself to where nothing could hit me but I couldn't hit him either, I react to his fsmash and combo him, while comboing him I pay attention to where his character goes, because of experience I get a good idea of how he is DIing and notice that at the last hit he is holding away from me, so its most likely he will tech away when hits the ground from that hit, so I react to that accordingly and go for another grab.

This is where I judge the skill level of my opponent, based on his reaction to forward smash at that range at the percentage I was at I would assume he is not very good and I would play more aggressive because I would assume he is afraid of me by this point in the match, causing him react slower because he is unsure, because Fox is so fast playing aggressive while he is thinking slowly gives me an even larger advantage.

EX2: I'm Fox and my opponent is Marth, we are about 5 characters lengths away from eachother, I charge and he charges me predicts where I will turn around and then grabs me, he chain throws me and then utilts me, and forward smashes me, with survival DI I manage to firefox and sweetspot the ledge, I waveland off the ledge thinking he will be close enough to grab afterwards, he predicts me though so I miss with my grab and get forward smashed and edgeguarded. In this example the Marth is able to gain control immediately by guessing correctly that I would start off defensive and he caught me off guard because in this example I wasn't expecting that kind of aggression, he was able to keep momentum the entire stock and easily kill me.

This could go many more ways such as him going for the grab me nairing him into my own grab before he can and continuing the pressure for the kill as well as countless other ways. The point is you make calls based on the milliseconds of information you have and keep building a profile, by the second and third games the better player will be winning by more and more.

I have played some people who only attack in one pattern, and all you have to do is hit them at ANY point during this pattern because you know what they will do, after the match they ask what they did wrong and you respond: "you are being way to predictable, mix up your approaches" if you get that kind of comment then you need to really SLOW DOWN your play and just think before you act, if you act the SAME way by reflex every single time, you will be beaten every single time because you are being predictable, it only takes 1 or 2 hits at a high level game to gain enough momentum to finish a stock, just be warned.
 

Grunt

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
4,612
Location
Kawaii Hawaii
I love all the long detailed responses.
If it were me who said it, I would be using it as an insult, so...
 

EmperorB-rad2kj

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
131
Location
In your nightmares
Iv'e always known that I had to think during the match i don't kno wat to think. This got answered at the top but reading your opponent isn't easy. I try & try & try again and it pains me to think "is this as good as i'll get". I wanna kno how is it possible to read an opponent?
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,272
Location
Oxford, Mississippi. . . . permanent n00b
Iv'e always known that I had to think during the match i don't kno wat to think. This got answered at the top but reading your opponent isn't easy. I try & try & try again and it pains me to think "is this as good as i'll get". I wanna kno how is it possible to read an opponent?
Experience experience experience.

But really it isn't hard as it looks. Just make sure to pay attention to what your opponent does and you will get it. It will take a while before you are fully comfortable with EVERYTHING, but it will happen. You have not reached your ceiling if you have only been playing for as long as you have been on this site. lol
 

Leacero

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Messages
1,020
Location
Queens/Stony Brook, NY
If you're losing, basically just think about what you're doing wrong and how to fix it. It doesn't help if you're doing something wrong without realizing it and getting punished for it over and over. I'm pretty sure what I've said has already been stated in one way or another in the big block of text up there... :)
 

EmperorB-rad2kj

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
131
Location
In your nightmares
Meh iv'e been playin smash since 64 I thought I waz godly but looking at ppl like gimpy & kirk, Azen & so on just knocks me far back. I guess i just jump into battle trying to start a combo of some sort & wen i get frustrated I either get better or become predictable. I try to read my opponent but he reads that i'm reading & counters.
 

shazbot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
88
Location
Geneva, IL
you gotta think, but its more like knowing. its not like some chess match where each person leisurely picks their next move. use quick instincts so you're opponnent doesn't have the luxury of thinking
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
for me, i really don't think much during a match, i kinda just play solely off of reflexes. for instance... my opponent forward smashes my shield. my automatic reflex is to waveshield towards him and counter with another attack. i don't really think much while i play, just kinda let my fingers do the thinking.

the only thing i usually think when i play is something like "i have to win no matter what!"
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Iv'e always known that I had to think during the match i don't kno wat to think. This got answered at the top but reading your opponent isn't easy. I try & try & try again and it pains me to think "is this as good as i'll get". I wanna kno how is it possible to read an opponent?
Well I will say that it took me almost a year to get to a point where I could read players fluently, a good part of the reason it took so long is a lack of tournament experience, and a lack of experience in general playing against people I wasn't familiar with, almost all of my playtime came from the same 2 people for the longest time.

The only way I can describe it is that you stop thinking and start feeling what your opponent will do, you really don't have time to "think" in smash very much, unless you have some sort of stall tactic, or you can auto pilot while keeping distance until you devise something, even then you better be able to do it in about 3 or 4 seconds haha.

I attack and I have a feeling it will work, if it doesn't then there is a split second where I consciously try and decide if I should try the same thing again because they won't expect it twice in a row (which rarely works by the way) or decide which of my other tactics to try next. I mostly play as Fox vs good players now so I'll use him as an example, do I want to run at him and grab, yes, now if I run and grab is he going to dash away or shield, or is he going to jump backwards and aerial, is he going to smash attack me, I know those are his options and based on my feeling I pick one immediately before I decide to go through with my grab attempt, if I think he will smash if I run at him then I now know I can't grab but I can dash dance and wait for it then grab, or I could run and shield, or I could run and wavedash back. Or I could circle jump, or I could double jump onto the top platform waveland towards him fall through it and drill him. You don't think you just feel and pick what seems right, there is still smart and stupid play though, I don't do everything entirely by reflex but its hard to put into better words than that.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
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Beastector HQ
3DS FC
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I don't even think when I play, my brain is completely dead from the pattern of: Pillar, pillar, pillar, pillar, ooo waveshine, pillar, pillar, spike. Falco's so simple yet such a b**** to deal with.
 

Overload

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,531
Location
RI
When I'm playing I'm generally thinking something along the lines of "Why is this game so fun? WHY IS THIS GAME SO FUN?!"

When you play you have to figure out what the probability is that you're next action will lead in punishment. Just take a split second to ask yourself if there are any better options.
 

Geist

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
4,893
Location
Menswear section
I try to concentrate on ways to punish my opponent, or give oppenings that would allow me to punish them.
I also try to make sure I'm not making a stupid face.
 

Skyson

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
540
Location
Canton, OH
All of this seems to be gearing away from how I think.

I think I focus too much on what I'm doing. I'm always thinking about which attack is going to work in a situation. I don't normally like playing characters with staple combos because I usually judge by position what attack will make the best impact. I spend like no time reading my opponents, which probably explains why shieldgrabs shut down 90% of my offense. <_<

If the focus shifts to the opponent, you can take a lot of pressure off yourself. It must come from a similar situation to another poster, who only had played against close friends for a while.

Same situation here, I've been playing with the same 4~5 people for something like 4 years. I need to get out on a more competetive scene to see that even though I'm the problem, I need to see WHY people are better than me, rather than why I'm not good enough to beat them.

Self-reflection post, very.
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Lol @ Vulcan I was totally about to go there. I usually quickly review the basic concepts of that particular character matchup while the game is loading. I leave the in-game thought for analyzing my opponents moves, picking up on teching patterns, and other habits.
 

S0FT

Smash Ace
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
956
Location
Planet Earth
"Oh, I'm winning cool. I guess I can take it easy now. Oh no, I'm losing it. Wow, this is the last stock third match, if I lose this I lose the set. Wait stop thinking about that, think about the game. Oh good job now your nervous. Way to go. STOP IT! Think about the game before you lose. But I'm nervous I can't think abou the game. STOP, think about the game. Fine....."
 

BrandonOwnageking

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
396
Location
SoCal Sandiego
1st off i think that guy was just being an ******* and second i don't think of anything honestly its all muscle memory and its like im watching myself play.
 

Zjiin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
4,005
Location
Brazil, SouThSidE!
1st off i think that guy was just being an ******* and second i don't think of anything honestly its all muscle memory and its like im watching myself play.
That guy might have been acting like an ass, but acting without thinking and relying on JUST muscle memory is called being a robot, and will get you into trouble against serious players.
 

Bandit000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Rancho
when i'm playing i always watch my oppenents pattern style of attack...
how they rush in...
how often they use their shield and when,
what attacks they favor and how they use them,
what kinda DI they're applying to their character...
and other things.

then if my strategy isn't working, i just start thinking...
"No! i can't let my marth die...."
lol!
 

SpruceTengu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Eastern MA
Do as the famous Japanese sword master Yagyu Munenori suggested, and embrace the zen "No-mind". Find your natural state of mind, an undisturbed, imperturbable state with no thought of external desires or planned action. Keep your mind light and pliable, like a willow leaf, and it will blend with any situation and leave you capable of great function devoid of self consciousness and anxiousness which may cloud your judgment and impair your movement.


...
..

Or think about pr0nz. I think the effect is about the same.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
Do not think, feel, it's like a finger pointing at the moon, don't concentrate on that finger or you'll miss out on all that heavenly glory.
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
Location
Mos Eisley
the only thing i think when i play his

"im going to mindgames the **** out of this guy"
 

CommanderCody08

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
149
I think the reason that someone said that to you is cuz you were probably doing stupid stuff. Sorry if I just insulted you but I see a lot of people doing dumb stuff.

Here is some dumb stuff that you may have/ not have done:

Attack a shield and gotten shield grabbed.
Teched in a stupid direction.
Used up B to early and landed on the stage with lag, as opposed to sweetspotting the ledge.
Simply not thought of something that could counter whatever you're opponent was doing.
Made stupid stage counterpicks.
lots mor that I can't think of.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
If I attacked and gotten shield grabbed it may have been from a missed l cancel, or perhaps I just miss-called or slightly miss-timed my attack - not always stupid
Teching can never be done in a "stupid direction" I often tech towards an area that is less safe because it is also less predictable, my opponent predicting it, or randomly choosing and getting lucky does not make my choice stupid it simply makes it wrong.
Up B-ing early is occasionally necessary to avoid being edgehogged, although there are times that it makes no sense to up b early.
Some tactics don't have clear answers and often times you can die 1 or 2 times before finding a good answer to it, it's best to know as much as you can about every match up before you start but some creative people, and people from other states will play vastly different from what you are used to and it can effect you.
Stupid stage counterpicks do exist, and I am most definitely guilty of doing it, although I've learned my lesson by now. =)
 

BlueBladeX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Missouri
I don't think I worded the question exactly how I wanted too.

What I really wanted to know was what I should look for in my opponent. I know easy stuff like roll habits and teching habits, but after that it becomes much harder.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
You have to think of your character's metagame. Combos, chains, and spacers come instinctivly. For example: I am training myself to tech after every attack I take. It starts with some friendlies where I stay alert for when I am about to hit the ground, and then tech. Soon, you do it every time without thinking.

In melee, L-Canceling is a good habit to learn if you want to prevent getting punished during lagy attacks. Wavedash also does the job for you when you need quick spacing.

Back to brawl, momentum canceling cuts your hitstun and momentum greatly. By tilting the c-stick in the direction of your fastest aieral, you can survive a fourth longer than you could without it. With some characters, their b-air is fastest, but hard to preform while using DI to recover. Practicing these things make them automaticly happen in your brain.
 
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