What separates the Mid-Level Players from the High Level Players?

[Ryobeat]

I was always curious about this, and i never know where to start or how I feel about this, but i have no idea what separates them. What is it that the mid-level player isnt doing that stops them from getting to the high level? Because high tier players can usually compete with Top Players(AKA The top 8 players), and they usually can tell what they're missing. Low level players can usually slowly make they're way into the Mid Level Players, but im still confused with this one. Is it experience? Or is it a few little things they dont know about the game yet? Or can it just be that they're missing one general aspect?

 

[Varist]

one factor dealing with pressure. little mid tiers can make the coolest *** combo videos and have awesome little clutch moments and copy whatever the pros do but they break when they're pressured because they haven't been desensitized.

this is also a game where you can't escape the "i've played longer so have more overall game knowledge" type thing. the more I play this game the more DIs I can recognize off different moves and the more frequently I follow up and whatever. mid tier players also haven't conditioned themselves to recognize shifting habits, because this game can come down to a simple option select and stage control and reading the ledgeroll or the tech or the DI or the dash dance is going to net you free stocks sometimes.

remember that there are only 4 stocks in a game so it's not like the top tier players are so many leagues ahead, they're just know enough little things that they can take 4 stocks before you can take 1 or 2 or 3 etc.

 

[Varist]

my grammar is so ****ty holy the balls **** friday night games

 

[Jockmaster]

I believe that it is mostly that high level players do things like proper spacing and pattern recognition automatically (simply from experience and practice) that mid level players have to normally focus on doing.

High level players do these things instinctually, so they are able to focus more on out-playing the opponent rather than simply trying to have consistent tech skill and fundamentals.

It's comparable to drumming (or any instrument really). Low level drummers almost totally focus on basic hand-foot coordination, mid level drummers have basic coordination but lack the consistency and prowess to play complicated beat patterns and meter. High level drummers have all of those things down to automatic habit, so their mind can focus on the intricacies of complicated drumming without having to dedicate any thought to most of the things that mid level drummers have to think about constantly.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Biggest thing is expirance IMO

 

[Signia]

I believe that it is mostly that high level players do things like proper spacing and pattern recognition automatically (simply from experience and practice) that mid level players have to normally focus on doing.

High level players do these things instinctually, so they are able to focus more on out-playing the opponent rather than simply trying to have consistent tech skill and fundamentals.

It's this. Mid-level players focus on playing matchups and executing movement and combos correctly. "Correctly" as in the best way to play -- they're trying to execute their conception of that.

High level players do all this without having to think too much because it feels natural, freeing up their awareness and can focus on reading their opponent. This correctness of play is refined to suit the opponent's habits and how they adapt (if they adapt).

I know this because I can read high level players but not mid level players, because mid level players aren't thinking as much and I can't understand their thought processes. I come from a game (SCV) where you don't have to think nearly as much about execution, so I have no idea how to read players who are not thinking about what I'm doing or planning and have no plans of their own, and are simply reacting to each situation. I still lose to high level players, of course.

 

[Mahone]

it's what jockmaster said fo sho

 

[KirbyKaze]

We're just better than you. It's a combination of things. We have good execution so we can do what we want, when we want, exactly how we wanted it done. Because we don't have to focus on execution very much, we can donate time to & experiment with strategies a lot faster and figure out what stuff works and what doesn't at a deeper strategic level. Working with so much material gives us a strong understanding of the game so the process becomes easier, more intuitive, and natural. As we get better at it, we can make better strategies. This is visible in basically every important part of gameplay, and can be noticed quickly if you compare basically any other Peach to Armada. Plus what Jockmaster said.

 

[JPOBS]

Execution.

Seriously, the single biggest difference between a mid player and a high-top player, is that that will successfully execute and kill the opponent given a single opening with a higher percentage than a mid level player. A mid level player will drop combo's and often need 3-5 openings to kill someone.

Mango and Armada literally need like one hit confirm to kill the opponent usually.

 

[Archangel]

**** size. If you have a big **** you have the confidence to win. If you don't have a big **** you will feel small and break under the pressure. So yeah...if you are losing get a bigger ****.

 

[Deleted member]

high level players are just a little bit better at everything. punishment, neutral game, tech skill, you name it. if you want to be better, work on it.

 

[darkatma]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but edgeguarding.

Top level players are better at edgeguarding. This is also what separates different top level players from each other. In PP vs Mango falco dittos, peepee has an incredible stage presence but mango is the one who ends up getting the kills off the ledge quicker and wins.

 

[Lovage]

at noob level edge guarding is the entire game imo, always the #1 thing i recommend to ppl who don't know what to improve on first

 

[oukd]

i dont think there are any specifics in regards of 'betterness' between mid and high level. however i'd like to say that a large portion of mid level players are particularly lacking in one or two departments specifically that are holding them back, which is why people might think there's a specific difference between player level.

 

[iRobinhoood]

To everyone new/not that good, recently posted on Reddit:

 

[Wobbles]

I am going to write a massive essay on this.

I hope you are prepared.

edit: okay it's not that massive probably but I hope you like it anyhow.

First, there are a LOT of different skills you can master in this game. Trying to say "it's X that makes you great" is really hard to pinpoint, because there are so many other things that will impact how useful that trait is. When you're at a lower level that method of improvement works because every player has SO MUCH to improve on, they have no real strengths. Just by developing a strength, you stand out.

That in itself is the key to seeing yourself ascend. The prime difference between players who see lots of success and players who flounder--despite showing lots of promise--is their ability to focus the match on their strengths.

If you have unbelievable shield pressure, and you are good at forcing people into their shield, you will see success. If your spacing is incredible, so you play a character that emphasizes your spacing, you will see success. If you are good at utilizing lots of knowledge and tricks, and you play a character with many secrets and gimmicks, you will see success. Good shield-grabbing and edgeguards? Play near the edge and enjoy making it out of pools.

This is why you sometimes see players who do really well and show promise, but randomly fail against other people, or get absolutely stomped by somebody who's actually just a little bit above them. The situations they find themselves in don't play to their strengths.

So obviously, more strengths means adding more dimensions to your game. But the thing is, it almost doesn't matter what you pick, as long as you have the ability to keep the game focused on those dimensions. If there is a giant gaping flaw in your game--you suck at executing from your shield, for instance--and you play a character that spends a lot of time there, or your most common/worst matchups involve acting from your shield a lot, you are going to have serious issues advancing. So your choices are 1) always avoid the situations you suck at or 2) get better at them. In tournament, I recommend picking option 1 every time. In friendlies, I mostly would recommend option 2. In the time period right before a tournament though, I recommend going back to 1 though.

/thoughts

 

[S l o X]

Wobbles is the greatest.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Wobbles is one of the reasons for my future success.

So your choices are 1) always avoid the situations you suck at or 2) get better at them. In tournament, I recommend picking option 1 every time. In friendlies, I mostly would recommend option 2. In the time period right before a tournament though, I recommend going back to 1 though.

So true.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Everyone needs to get better, some people have just developed their key skills/understanding better than others.

It's usually about motivation, and then after that it's about directing your motivation in the most productive way possible. Wobbles' post is pretty good at handling the productive aspect from one perspective. Another way to handle this is to break the game down frame-wise as M2K did. There are several possibilities, and it is better to use your own possibilities using the hard work and tips other top players used instead of their actual methods(unless you work similarly to them).

 

[KirbyKaze]

I agree with Wobbles and his thing on specialization and why having a special part of your game to call your own makes winning easier than being slightly above average (or whatever) across the board

Ideally, try to pick things that compliment each other when mastering aspects. Your other areas will develop as your overall skill gets better but having really refined areas gives you that many more ways to win exchanges or kill efficiently or stave off death, etc.

 

[Archangel]

You need confidence, You need drive, You need a good controller, and you need to master your particular craft better than anyone else. As that process continues...this game overall gets pushed higher and higher. People like Hbox for example have just about smashed the ceiling with their character's particular craft but you can never stop improving and pushing or you'll stop and eventually be caught up to an passed by. Welcome to smash bros Melee. enjoy.

 

[KirbyKaze]

5% talent
5% skill
90% concentrated power of will

or something like that

also learn your bad MUs if you play mid tier or better

 

[Massive]

This almost exact thread came up around a year ago, I'll update and post the same response I posted there, because I believe it's still true.

If it were possible to distinctly define ability level...

Beginner or "Low level" players would have a grasp on basic game mechanics and be capable of performing some of the more rudimentary strategies as well as implementing basic technical necessities such as L-cancelling and edgehogging.

"Mid level" players would ideally be completely aware of their character(s) capabilities, technically proficient in every major facet of gameplay, and be able to understand/predict the vast majority of game mechanics either through subconscious awareness or direct focus.

Ideally the only differences between a "Mid level" and "High level" would be perfected execution, experience, and mastery of prediction/strategy.

However, since people tend to pick and choose, subconsciously or otherwise, what things they practice to mastery, there are "low level" players who can waveshine > shorthop-doublelaser and "high level" players who struggle to moon-walk consistently. Smash ability is too varied to be classified so rigidly.

There are definitely distinct differences in player ability, but I think they are more attributable to successfully countering playstyle differences (playing intelligently) than mastery of technical skill or catch-all strategy (playing mechanically).

 

[odinNJ]

25% tech skill
25% spacing (more imo)
25% mindgames
25% edge/comboes

100% SPIRAL POWER!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brookman]

"lower-level" players just don't practice sounds style/habits. their notions of what is good/what works are not aligned with the reality of the 'metagame'. They try to push sub-optimal play-styles to levels that are not attainable in that style of play.

 

[hungrybox]

Applying yourself

 

[Brookman]

you have to have the ability to apply yourself correctly tho. Certain people just don't have the correct tools and don't know how to find them. others have the correct tools but don't know how to use them.


take a queue from engineering profession. Form follows function. When you apply the CORRECT tactics in the correct ways, you will appear to be a brilliant player. Trying to appear to be a brilliant player without understanding the function of your actions is not going to work.

 

[BrahmenNoodles]

Knowing when to castle and move their f pawn.

 

[ShroudedOne]

you have to have the ability to apply yourself correctly tho. Certain people just don't have the correct tools and don't know how to find them. others have the correct tools but don't know how to use them.


take a queue from engineering profession. Form follows function. When you apply the CORRECT tactics in the correct ways, you will appear to be a brilliant player. Trying to appear to be a brilliant player without understanding the function of your actions is not going to work.

This 100000%

 

[R2_GP]

I guess wobbling just "works" fine, if you want to just "win", sorry i just hate the fact that things like this makes it even harder for mid/low level players, the understanding of this game's nature, and basics laws is in my opinion the main key but to do so you have to realy love the game, because i think we all know this is not an easy one. In the end it all comes down, like PP said, to real Motivation.

 

[Van.]

Novice --> Low: Work ethic

Low--> Mid: Experience

Mid --> High: Dedication/Refinement

High--> Top: Money/transportation

most of you are really exaggerating the role of experience in the mid--> high transition, we have people in FL who have been playing regularly for 6 years and are still mid, and in some cases even low level

 

[Twinkles]

You can play a lot, but if you don't really learn anything from the people you play, I'm not sure if I could call that experience.

 

[Van.]

Very few people wouldn't call playing the game experience

 

[unknown522]

A lot

 

[Bones0]

I am going to write a massive essay on this.

I hope you are prepared.

edit: okay it's not that massive probably but I hope you like it anyhow.

First, there are a LOT of different skills you can master in this game. Trying to say "it's X that makes you great" is really hard to pinpoint, because there are so many other things that will impact how useful that trait is. When you're at a lower level that method of improvement works because every player has SO MUCH to improve on, they have no real strengths. Just by developing a strength, you stand out.

That in itself is the key to seeing yourself ascend. The prime difference between players who see lots of success and players who flounder--despite showing lots of promise--is their ability to focus the match on their strengths.

If you have unbelievable shield pressure, and you are good at forcing people into their shield, you will see success. If your spacing is incredible, so you play a character that emphasizes your spacing, you will see success. If you are good at utilizing lots of knowledge and tricks, and you play a character with many secrets and gimmicks, you will see success. Good shield-grabbing and edgeguards? Play near the edge and enjoy making it out of pools.

This is why you sometimes see players who do really well and show promise, but randomly fail against other people, or get absolutely stomped by somebody who's actually just a little bit above them. The situations they find themselves in don't play to their strengths.

So obviously, more strengths means adding more dimensions to your game. But the thing is, it almost doesn't matter what you pick, as long as you have the ability to keep the game focused on those dimensions. If there is a giant gaping flaw in your game--you suck at executing from your shield, for instance--and you play a character that spends a lot of time there, or your most common/worst matchups involve acting from your shield a lot, you are going to have serious issues advancing. So your choices are 1) always avoid the situations you suck at or 2) get better at them. In tournament, I recommend picking option 1 every time. In friendlies, I mostly would recommend option 2. In the time period right before a tournament though, I recommend going back to 1 though.

/thoughts

This is awesome, but now I'm paranoid the games I do win are only because I am playing people who suck vs. my niche... I'm not even entirely sure what my niche is though, so maybe I just need to think about this more. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Brookman]

what separates bones0 from strawhats

 

[JPOBS]

most of you are really exaggerating the role of experience in the mid--> high transition, we have people in FL who have been playing regularly for 6 years and are still mid, and in some cases even low level

It it possible for an experieced player to be bad after a long time.
It is impossible for an inexperienced player to ever be good.

Therefore, experience is a prime driver of skill, and not at all "exaggerated".

 

[Wobbles]

This is awesome, but now I'm paranoid the games I do win are only because I am playing people who suck vs. my niche... I'm not even entirely sure what my niche is though, so maybe I just need to think about this more. Thanks for posting that.

lol

Well first, think about your strengths. Think about players you emulate and draw from, and situations that work to your advantage. Then, think about situations that do not. Developing more match control and comfort will stem from improving your weaknesses. Dominating certain people will stem from improving your strengths.

And improving complementary skills will also help you get more success. If your chaingrabbing is baller but your shield grabbing sucks, improving shield-grabs will let you CG more (and in turn, become more consistent/dominating with it). If your shield-grabs are great, but you have poor spacing/control on dash-dances (so you can't get grabs with spacing baits and stuff) work on THOSE and you'll also see a big improvement in the CG department. So you'll end up being safer, taking fewer hits, and also getting to develop MORE control in an area you're already strong in.

Things like that. Certain skills will benefit almost everything you do--better control over dash-dancing and wavedashes, for instance, improves your ability to dodge and counter-hit. You also start to perceive the space between characters better, so your move spacing is superior, and with better character control comes more fluid and consistent combos. So IDK, look at something you excel at, and find ways to expand your game around it. And look to at least cover up the things you suck at, or avoid them.

A good example would be V3ctorman and his Yoshi. He doesn't want to lose match control everytime he ends up in a shield, so he focuses on developing strengths that will help mitigate that. His shield-drops from platform are nuts, his egg-parrying-thing is ridiculous, and he's pretty excellent at tanking things with DJC'ed aerials.

It's all about controlling flow and momentum when you end up in the zone you excel at, and not losing it when you're out of it. I think with that as the guideline for what to practice and train, I'm pretty sure most people can become really freaking good, or at least cultivate a unique style that works for them.

 

[Van.]

It it possible for an experieced player to be bad after a long time.
It is impossible for an inexperienced player to ever be good.

Therefore, experience is a prime driver of skill, and not at all "exaggerated".

its a big factor, but def not the only one like ppl were saying

edit: if what you said is true then it proves its a prerequisite for skill, not a driver

 

[Wobbles]

The point of saying "experience is exaggerated" is because it's used as a catch-all for improvement when it's not the only element. Adding more experience does not guarantee a commensurate increase in skill. "Get more experience." But people play every weekend for years and don't get better. It's clearly not the x-factor.

It is impossible for an inexperienced player to ever be good.

1) Savants.
2) Ken's first tournament was allegedly the first MLG that he also won.
3) How much "experience" do you need then? Why was Mango ****** people after 8 months of play, but it took PC Chris much longer to hit his peak? And if one player only needs a few tournaments of experience to **** all over everybody, then WHY does another player need so much more? That's an infinitely more interesting question.