What I'm thinking right now about Sheik: Why Fair when you can STOMP?

[-Mars-]

just cuz u can **** fox with ftilt doesnt mean fox will get *****

he has al ot of things that can combo sheik as well, like easy mode low % drill/utilt stuff

its not THAT easy to get him into the tilt lock

but once u do its ez mode

IMO its slight disadvantage, not huge. fox is obviously going to try to avoid the ftilt, which he is good enough to do

drill doesnt even truly combo into utilt at low percentages similar to ftilt not comboing at low percentages Chok.

Due to Fox having very little safe on block and not having any means whatsoever of keeping Sheik from getting inside of him combined with the fact that ftilt is a frame 4 move..........tell me how Fox is so good as to avoid getting hit with ONE ftilt?

 

[choknater]

he can run away, sheik has to walk to get an ftilt

fox can just wait and bait, hes good at it, thats his game

 

[East]

Dammit, I knew this was going to happen.... -_-

You guys are better off keeping your opinions to yourself when looking over someone else's information. It's not like you're going to change their mind, so before you get into an argument about what someone else thinks, lets find out what charoo is actually doing with this information. Besides, if they think differently, and it's wrong, how does that hurt you in the matchup?

 

[-Mars-]

he can run away, sheik has to walk to get an ftilt

fox can just wait and bait, hes good at it, thats his game

Sheild cancelled dash to an ftilt.....

 

[<π]

lol, thats like a 13 frame maneuver till the hit box comes out you can usmash out of dash that fast. you have better safer options.

ftilt lock is only a true kill between 30 and like 50?

I was playing Fenrir yesterday, that match up isn't a strong disadvantage if the fox is smart. he has more grab range, and punishes way harder than we do. dair->kill set ups are very good, dair damage combos are even better.

you can't focus on fox's one major flaw in the match up without looking at his strengths as well.

 

[choknater]

lessthan3 is correct

marsulas u really have to play against a good fox player for a while to see what i mean. even i thought fox didnt have a chance in the matchup till i got surprised by his drill usmashes and drill dsmashes, and his punish game

its really good

 

[-Mars-]

Oh i'm aware how hard Fox punishes. Just against Sheik it's extremely hard to punish her because her moves are just so quick with very low cooldown.

He doesn't punish harder than we do in this matchup. He might punish harder against the rest of the cast but when you consider the fact that one ftilt is taking his stock or pretty close to it......I would say that Sheik punishes a little bit harder lol.

Dair is hard to land on Sheik when you figure out that you can just utilt.

 

[Charoo]

i thought it was pretty funny that the debate was whether fox vs sheik vs easy or too easy haha

I have been in both ends (pick sheik vs fox or some1 counter me with sheik)

Fox is good IF you don't know what he can do. Element of surprise is always good. What you wanna do vs fox is a lot of crawling, needling, and tilting. Remember, he is trying his very best like no one ever was to avoid you. Knowing this, figure out what you need to do so that it's unavoidable. Sometime I create a false opening and risk being punish. Cause you have to think, create and opening for him to approach then: punish him with tilt lock or he punishes you. Technically speaking, if you get that tilt lock in then it should be a stock. Also, ban smashville vs fox. It's probably the only few stages where u can't tilt lock him. He can jsut stand on the moving platform to prevent a tilt lock. If you just wanna beat him with tilt lock I mean. Also, gimp him if you can.

When I have to use fox vs sheik, I don't approach no matter what. I don't want to get tilt lock. I'll be spamming lasers and jumping away or side b pass u. I also try to stay near the edge for safety or on platforms and such. A fox that's trying to avoid a tilt lock is a hard fox to catch. Unless you know the pattern then you got this. I will approach with dair if I feel like it though. Only because I know that u can't shield drop then ftilt me. The best approach vs sheik is auto cancel back air. Like I said though, a smart fox will just keep shooting lasers at you. Then they'll take you to a stage with platforms or something moving.

I wish more sheik player put more input here. Then again, only liek 10 sheik players exist in this forum. I know there's more but they don't come here

 

[clowsui]

Meta Knight - slight disadvantage - FD, PS1| SV
Snake - slight disadvantage to even, not sure yet - SV, Castle Siege | Battlefield
Wario - slight disadvantage - FD, Yoshi's Island | Brinstar
Falco - even to slight advantage - FD, Lylat Cruise | Japes
Diddy Kong - slight disadvantage - BF, Brinstar | FD
King Dedede - slight disadvantage - BF, Brinstar | FD
Marth - slight disadvantage to even - SV, Halberd| BF
Mr. Game & Watch - slight disadvantage to even - FD, Castle Siege | Halberd
Pikachu - major disadvantage - Brinstar, Castle Siege| FD
Olimar - slight disadvantage - BF, DP | FD
Ice Climbers - major disadvantage - Don't pick Sheik | Against Ice Climbers - Just Kidding - BF, Brinstar | FD
R.O.B. - slight disadvantage - BF, YI | SV
Kirby - slight to major disadvantage -
Lucario - slight disadvantage -
Zero Suit Samus - even -
Toon Link - even -
Pit - even to slight disadvantage -
Donkey Kong - slight disadvantage -
Peach - slight to major disavantage -
Luigi - slight to major disadvantage -
Fox - slight advantage -
Wolf - slight to major advantage -
Sonic - even -
Sheik - lol - Pick What You | Like The Best
Bowser - even to slight disadvantage -
Zelda - even to slight advantage -
Pokémon Trainer - SQUIRTLE: even to slight disdavantage IVYSAUR: even to slight advantage CHARIZARD: even to slight disadvantage -
Ike - even to slight advantage -
Lucas - slight advantage -
Mario - even -
Ness - slight advantage -
Yoshi - even to slight disadvantage -
Samus - even to slight sadvantage -
Jigglypuff - even to slight disadvantage -
Captain Falcon - major advantage -
Link - slight advantage to major advantage -
Ganondorf - LOL - LOL | LOL

Yoshi's Island [Brawl]
Battlefield
Smashville
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Brinstar
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Jungle Japes


Finish later

 

[Tristan_win]

I wish more sheik player put more input here. Then again, only liek 10 sheik players exist in this forum. I know there's more but they don't come here

Sorry Champ I would of comment but like I feel I need more experience in counter picking and testing out stages on a personal level before I start giving advice on counter picks again.

Also me and match up is comical like...

ice climber's ~ bad

kirby ~ bad

Pikachu, ~ no ****ing clue

Everyone else ~ even or in sheik favor

..I'm so bias.

 

[Charoo]

Sorry Champ I would of comment but like I feel I need more experience in counter picking and testing out stages on a personal level before I start giving advice on counter picks again.

Also me and match up is comical like...

ice climber's ~ bad

kirby ~ bad

Pikachu, ~ no ****ing clue

Everyone else ~ even or in sheik favor

..I'm so bias.

it's all good Tristan. You should just give input on what you feel u know the most on or something. Cause I know you have good input and it's ur personal input too. It doesn't matter if it conflicts with other sheik players

 

[Zankoku]

Really? I mean, besides Pikachu, that looked pretty accurate.

 

[sniperworm]

lol, here's my random input. I only included stages for characters that I play against on a fairly regular basis.

Huge Advantage
Ganondorf - CP: Final Destination, Battlefield Ban: Jungle Japes

Slight Advantage
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Wolf - CP: Lylat Cruise, Final Destination Ban: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Zelda - CP: Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Battlefield Ban: Jungle Japes
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Lucas
Ness
Yoshi - CP: Final Destination, Battlefield Ban: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Samus
Captain Falcon - CP: Final Destination, Battlefield Ban: Jungle Japes
Link

Neutral
Wario
Falco - CP: Lylat Cruise, Smashville Ban: Jungle Japes
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong
Sheik
Bowser - CP: Final Destination, Rainbow Cruise Ban: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Mario
Jigglypuff

Slight Disadvantage
Meta Knight - CP: Final Destination, Battlefield Ban: Rainbow Cruise
Snake - CP: Battlefield, Final Destination Ban: Frigate Orpheon
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch - CP: Final Destination, Battlefield Ban: Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Olimar
Kirby
Lucario - CP: Battlefield, Halberd Ban: Frigate Orpheon
Peach
Luigi

Major Disadvantage
Pikachu
Ice Climbers

 

[Spelt]

CP battlefield against pikachu.

 

[iLight]

cp lylat vs pikachu

 

[choknater]

i dont think kirby is that bad honestly

and i use zelda against pika/ic's now

 

[Charoo]

I love to IBair!!!

 

[saviorslegacy]

cp lylat vs pikachu

I like this idea.

I love to IBair!!!

And you should, but forgetting Fair is fail.

*Why Fair is good*
Fair can combo better than Bair

Fair can knock people on their backs and you can get a Needle's jab lock. It also force's a get up (think Jigglypuffs Pound> jab force get up in Melee).

Swan Combo



BTW.. <3 has tested the shiz out of Bair. He knew all of this, and has said it before. We didn't stop using Fair then either.


That said, IBair is good. I use it when I am edge guarding and some times to combo.

 

[iLight]

lol someone want to explain ibair to me?

 

[saviorslegacy]

lol someone want to explain ibair to me?

I believe he is talking about the second foot.
When you perform Bair both legs get a hit box making it to where you can hit people in front of you.

 

[choknater]

lmao wow, ibair???? too good champoo

I don't think it ever been tasted but I'm starting to think that the back air is actually stronger?

haha i bet sheiks thighs taste stronger than her hands

 

[saviorslegacy]

haha i bet sheiks thighs taste stronger than her hands

You have a dirty mind Chok <,<

 

[<π]

The hell is an ibair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFcmujjqUts

 

[choknater]

i think when u hit with the bottom leg when using a bair

it comes out fast and is stronger than a fair, according to champ

it's just harder to get into that position.... i would use it OOS. as an approach is tough but still viable, like if u end up behind them. needs some good spacing

 

[Tristan_win]

=( I'm a bit ashamed I didn't know about this.

Oh well, good to know and yes the front of bair is amazing for approaching especially since when you hit their shield they have to do a pivot grab or attack and that not only limit what they can do it's not exactly easy either =3

 

[Charoo]

ok i uploaded a video using the technique. It seems like this isn't commonly known after all unless every1 is just misinterpreting it.

I change the name to the stomp because chok and I think she's stomping people with one leg haha.

I wish I had better recording/editing software.

I'm also 100% sure now that the stomp hits harder than Fair. It's also a sex kick property so u can leave it out but u want the sweetspot part though. That's the good stuff

edit: oh and savior im not saying to not use the fair. Fair is amazing. I'm saying in certain situation, the stomp is the best option because it sends them off the stage for you to edge guard. When the video is done processing, you'll see what I mean.

I think Sheik is the only char. in the game that can send some1 behind you with an aerial? If that's the case then this is like a super secret weapon woot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHa6De07Qz8

 

[ddonaldo]

hm.... okay

so index and middle? cuz i've been using thumb on c-stick and side of index on A

uncomfortable

maybe i should try your method xD

cuz i barely get it even 50% of the time

hey chok you could try delaying the dash input to help get a feel for the timing.
what I mean is dash with the control stick, literally let the joystick go back to neutral position and then as soon as possible, c stick down and up+A together.
This way you can focus on the timing of the c stick and up+A a bit more and it greatly increases your chances of pulling it off.
the only catch is that you dash before the actual DACUS comes out which means that you may not always get the tipper on MK but a few times using this method will help you get the DACUS while getting used to the timing needed.

hope this made sense and remember its essential that up+A are pressed at exactly the same time

 

[choknater]

lol what an old post

dont worry, im good at dacus now

i get it like 80%

 

[stealth3654]

I'll have to try this sometime.

 

[iLight]

hey chok you could try delaying the dash input to help get a feel for the timing.
what I mean is dash with the control stick, literally let the joystick go back to neutral position and then as soon as possible, c stick down and up+A together.
This way you can focus on the timing of the c stick and up+A a bit more and it greatly increases your chances of pulling it off.
the only catch is that you dash before the actual DACUS comes out which means that you may not always get the tipper on MK but a few times using this method will help you get the DACUS while getting used to the timing needed.

hope this made sense and remember its essential that up+A are pressed at exactly the same time

are you guys talking about dacus? because claw = win

easiest way i think to get the timing, is to start running c-stick down then up and A as soon as possible after just like ddonaldo said =]



EDIT: LOL i'm a scroob that doesn't read good =] i read that you do it easy now lol

also if thumb on c-stick index on A button is uncomfy, switch R to the A button and you should be a bit more comfortable, though the timing is slightly different because it takes longer push down the R button
it took me a lot of practice to get dash dance to dacus down, but its sooooo fun and useful

 

[<π]

Stomp? Are you guys serious? lol. I've been saying this for like 6 months. I have a link of it in this thread, lol.

 

[iLight]

<3 look at what i posted in the f-tilt combo thread

 

[choknater]

haha man i hpoe this catches on

i thought everyone knew that for the bair, all of sheiks body hits ppl backwards, even if ur hitting with sheiks front

but yea keep it in mind guys, its amazing for edgeguarding