What are Mr. Game & Watch's problem matches?

[Lipucd]

Alright
Lucario is pretty difficult. Or at least the one I faced was.
His range is giant and so are his rolls.

Anyone have experience against this pokemon? Tips would be nice. I already know how to bucket so don't bother mentioning it >_>

LOLOLOL

How?

Half of lucario's attacks can be bucketed, Quite a few of his attacks are readable, and his recovery can be gimped so hard its not funny. Sure he gets a boost but if you hammer him at around 100% ( or tipper with them around 70% ) He'll NEVER get the chance to use it past 1.5x boost. Also, Lucario has quite a bit of trouble trying to KO as he only gets one REAL attack in air ( Bair ) and all of his others are extremely readable.

Mind you a safe Lucario can annoy a G&W, for the most part though G&W should still win.

If anything G&W's big problems are Ike ( Almost every attack KO's at low %'s...yet he's readable...just don't get hit by his attacks and your a-ok...Then again saying that is saying "Don't breath for 3 minutes"...Your going to have to at one point unless you've trained hardcore for it ), Toon Link ( a Match in speed, his Dair is a bit too safe to counter every time, and he controls the field better then you ), and Snake ( a GOOD snake mind you, you can get past many of his smashes if you play well...but there are SO MANY GOD ****ED ATTACKS AT ONCE FROM THIS GUY!...And like Ike just about every attack can KO ).

 

[swim2007]

has anyone found a wtf how could i lose to <insert bad character> match-up?

Some how I kept losing to this one jigglypuff player. She perfect shielded a lot of my aerials and dodged like crazy. Plus she did that fast rolling move to get a few kills in. Anyone have any strategies?

 

[swim2007]

hey I found a video of the jiggs player on youtube. This is pretty much how she played against my G&W (probably even better than shown in this video). Anyone ever heard of her / him??? Any strategies on how to play against this style?

This is not me in the video. This is the same jigglypuff player that trashed me though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KHmAGzu7QQ

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Hmm, well, that Jigglypuff wasn't that great, to be honest. Or at least, it didn't seem that way. I had some trouble with Jiggs a while back, as I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but it becomes a battle of predictions. If you've set them up in the air and go for an attack, but you anticipate an airdodge, delay your move and attack accordingly. On the ground instead of approaching aggressively, go defensive and shield as you come up to jigglypuff. Crouch and Dtilt a couple of times when you're sorta away but not far enough that she'll use rollout, and then as she approaches with an aerial, reply in kind. It works better if you actually managed to hit with the tilt beforehand.

Important thing is, if you find yourself getting hit up into a string of aerials... DI away, not back into her. It'll save you a lot of damage. They use the fact that you'd rather move back into the stage rather than being pushed off, but don't fall for it.

The chef is also nice here.
Prediction is wicked important. You need to control things, or you'll probably lose.
It would be easier if we had a video of you two battling.

Lucario isn't giving me much trouble anymore, maybe it was just me not being used to fighting him, but he's no means an easy matchup. He's playing much too defensively, and for a while, my predicting started pulling ahead, I even started predicting where he'd go out of my dthrow so I could string some more, he's now coping with it well. Bucketing is all nice and good, but like many others, when it becomes full, he starts to spam his aura sphere. He doesn't have to approach, thats the thing. He actually is fine with letting me fill my bucket, because then he can spam away. The bucket full of aura spheres isn't too great either. I'm not used to the range on his attacks, which is sorta like snakes.

But yeah, I've pulled ahead. I would say the matchup is even, and isn't in either one's favor. Ike is easy though ;D

I fought a good snake, and I kinda take back what I said. He's hard.
The lag made me run into his grenades at every roll, even though I try to pull away.
And he kills really low.

wifi is stooopid.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

hey I found a video of the jiggs player on youtube. This is pretty much how she played against my G&W (probably even better than shown in this video). Anyone ever heard of her / him??? Any strategies on how to play against this style?

This is not me in the video. This is the same jigglypuff player that trashed me though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KHmAGzu7QQ

I think that was meowkitty007, but don't count me sure on that.

Ok, I have a real hard time with snake...no one else just snake >_>

 

[SlickSlicer]

I have problems vs. Ike and Olimar. Those seem to be the hardest for me, although I'm not that good in general. Olimar seems hard to get to and attack period. And Ike's attacks have amazing reach which usually destroys me.

 

[thesultan2112]

my friends plays a pretty sweet tl but because tl players are so dependant on projecticels, they must assume and anticapte ALOT. Becuase of this, i think GW is evenly m,atched as a character but the realy advanagte/disadvantage comes from the player and what kinda game they use againt tl. personally, i chrage and keep it close comabt and jsut try to counter move any anticapted attacks tl makes

 

[daytimeninja]

my friends plays a pretty sweet tl but because tl players are so dependant on projecticels, they must assume and anticapte ALOT. Becuase of this, i think GW is evenly m,atched as a character but the realy advanagte/disadvantage comes from the player and what kinda game they use againt tl. personally, i chrage and keep it close comabt and jsut try to counter move any anticapted attacks tl makes

TL is actually very hard for GaW. TL has a tight projectile game that can't be bucketed by GaW so GaW is always under pressure. TL's attacks most all out reach GaW's and TL's RAR is just as sick as GaW's and sets up nice aerials.

 

[WarbL]

its probably just me but i have problems with ROB. I can destroy my friends snake, ike, DDD, and olimar, but whenever he pulls out his ROB (who he doesn't even play that much) i get torn apart. I know to bucket the lazers and avoid the dsmash, but the dsmash is **** near unavoidable.

 

[daytimeninja]

its probably just me but i have problems with ROB. I can destroy my friends snake, ike, DDD, and olimar, but whenever he pulls out his ROB (who he doesn't even play that much) i get torn apart. I know to bucket the lazers and avoid the dsmash, but the dsmash is **** near unavoidable.

How are you approaching him?

 

[WarbL]

i approach with bairs, key to downtilts, and some fairs. I should play his ROB a couple more times and figure out my problems.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have problems vs. Ike and Olimar. Those seem to be the hardest for me, although I'm not that good in general. Olimar seems hard to get to and attack period. And Ike's attacks have amazing reach which usually destroys me.

Ike is actually in G&W's favor. Just don't let him outspace you. Also don't go above him if you can help it, because his U-tilt and U-air go through your D-air. Basically whack Ike around, spam Bacon to limit his options, and when it's time to kill him, D-smash him so that he can't recover. You can't be too careless though, I admit.

Olimar is indeed tough. I'm not too knowledgeable in this matchup though. I dunno, try not to get grabbed I guess.

 

[abit_rusty]

its probably just me but i have problems with ROB. I can destroy my friends snake, ike, DDD, and olimar, but whenever he pulls out his ROB (who he doesn't even play that much) i get torn apart. I know to bucket the lazers and avoid the dsmash, but the dsmash is **** near unavoidable.

Let me hazard a guess...ROB side steps, you miss, and he dsmashes. Rinse and repeat?

You're either rolling too much or being too obvious with approaches. ROB's dsmash is a punishing move, so you'll have to change your playstyle to something a bit less agressive. G&W's bair is perfect for staying just out of range of that. Poke away.

 

[nevershootme]

From my experience and thoughts when going against olimar (I play olimar myself). You have to consistently move alot and keep that b-air going until you hit him. Also, if you get some pikmin on you, do a n-air as fast as possible while approaching him to keep pressure.

d-air will always ping with olimar's up-smash with the right timing.

But that's all i can say at the moment

 

[frenchclops]

Does anyone else have a tough time approaching Marth? I've got a friend who keeps shutting me down with fairs and fsmashes and I can't seem to meet him in the air at all.

 

[daytimeninja]

Does anyone else have a tough time approaching Marth? I've got a friend who keeps shutting me down with fairs and fsmashes and I can't seem to meet him in the air at all.

Try approaching him with bairs...

 

[Ghost Pikmin]

So there's a certain ROB I fight every now and then online who gives me particular trouble because he loves ledgecamping whenever he can (especially after scoring a KO on me). His nair and two projectiles generally make approaching him difficult, and his recovery lets him drop below the range of my dtilt/smash and then hover up (and maybe even punish me).

For me, the only "solution" is just camping the other edge, but he's even managed to hit me with his spinner top from the other side of the arena a few times. Besides, I'd prefer a method that really punishes him so he'll stop even considering it.

 

[GimR]

Meta Knight! I hate him. It's so hard to punish him for messing up. UGH!

 

[Sir_Malechai]

i'm having a bit of problems with an aerial spamming metaknight, but I guess the only answer to that would be just to outspace him

 

[sonic 12111]

what about the one most irritating person in the whole world. marth he is so fast and has such a great range though not as strong as ike he can still deliver damage till uur about at 130% then bam fsmashes u over the edge

 

[cutter]

what about the one most irritating person in the whole world. marth he is so fast and has such a great range though not as strong as ike he can still deliver damage till uur about at 130% then bam fsmashes u over the edge

G&W kills Marth at 85% thanks to his ridiculously overpowered smashes. And if G&W lives to 130%, especially against a character like Marth, your opponent is playing very badly.

Marth is tough, but I see it as a pretty even matchup. I've played a lot of bad Marths, but I know he's still quite good.

 

[Plum]

For Olimar, if you are having trouble with him, then go onto training with him and figure out the distance of how far each Pikmin go. Use that knowledge to your advantage. The key is either killing his Pikmin, or at least separating them from him. Luckily, a lot of G&W's moves can send the little guys far. Dtilt literally catapults them, jabbing can kill ones thrown right at you, your turtle can eat through them, my personal favorite is launching an airborn Pikmin with Uair
Keep your distance and force him to throw his minions at you. Keep an eye on which one he is going to throw, because a high arcing yellow Pikmin might fly right over your defense and still hit you. Once he is down on his Pikmin count, rush in for some punishment. If you can, keep in the air and don't let him pick any more of those buggers, and once you get him off the stage gimp him good.

For those who said you had problem with Jiggs, be aware for a good Jiggs. That one in the video, was descent, but nowhere near her potential. She is going to try to control the air as much as you, and she is rarely going to touch the ground, so punish her that rare time she does. The Jiggs in that video was to dependent on roll out, really don't expect it that much. It is a strong move, but to easy to spot and punish if you know how it works. Jiggs should really be focusing on streaking air attacks. Pound is a good move, but used too much, and it is going to get weak, so she will probably switch her approach between pounds, and Bairs, if you can predict which one, punish accordingly. Thankfully she lost her WoP from Melee, to physics, more knockback, and to other characters, and what is left is negated by your light weight. Go for the kill using the top of the screen, she can recover literally any horizontal distance with five jumps and rising pounds, which are usually only banned from stalling and legal for recovery purposes. If it was the Jiggs we remember from Melee, this would be much more problematic, but thankfully she got nerfed while G&W got buffed.

 

[Neb]

For Olimar, if you are having trouble with him, then go onto training with him and figure out the distance of how far each Pikmin go. Use that knowledge to your advantage. The key is either killing his Pikmin, or at least separating them from him. Luckily, a lot of G&W's moves can send the little guys far. Dtilt literally catapults them, jabbing can kill ones thrown right at you, your turtle can eat through them, my personal favorite is launching an airborn Pikmin with Uair
Keep your distance and force him to throw his minions at you. Keep an eye on which one he is going to throw, because a high arcing yellow Pikmin might fly right over your defense and still hit you. Once he is down on his Pikmin count, rush in for some punishment. If you can, keep in the air and don't let him pick any more of those buggers, and once you get him off the stage gimp him good.

Yeah, this is all well known, check out the link in my sig, :/.
Read before you write, you can save some time, lol.

 

[Platformations]

Marth.

Detatch ftl

And like previously stated, a gay Olimar. The most annoying camper char by far.

 

[lolbombs]

Well, I don't go on these boards often, and I only play online, so I guess that invalidates my opinion haha... but I'll say what I feel I have to anyway, at least in respect to the online aspect of this game.

G&W is a character that is, in general, weak against any character with a projectile at the core of their strategy. G&W is all about ensuring your opponent is under pressure to move in a certain direction or do something specific so that you can hit them before they realize what you are doing. Without a reliable projectile of his own, G&W cannot reliably play mindgames with someone who has projectiles because he will constantly be forced into traps. Namely, some of these characters are Olimar, Snake, Diddy, and to somewhat lesser extent, ROB.

Olimar seems to have the upper hand when fighting G&W. He will throw pikmin at you from a distance if you do not attack him, and when you do attack him, he plays the whole grab / smash jig and ensures you cannot get close to him with a turtle. Keying is somewhat reliable, as I've found that he cannot usmash it to counter, but after a while it can lead to him predicting it and grabbing you afterward.

Snake is ridiculous and is definitely a G&W counter imo. He can play with many projectiles on the screen at once and set you up for some attack in case you don't get hurt. He can also edgeguard you like a monster and make sure you never get back down on the ground. Not to mention that his ftilt and utilt are GREAT for dealing with turtle and key respectively, no matter how well G&W spaces them. In addition, if you fall back and play defensively, he snakedashes or grenade camps and BOOM, you're up in the air and ready for another round of edgeguarding (if you didn't die from the attack already)

Diddy is incredibly annoying. Normally, he is extremely weak against G&W and has nothing on him. However, once he gets those bananas in play, you cannot move and approach him reliably. You will have to hold back and play uberdefensively (something G&W isn't good at should I mention) while he sets you up for a popgun, a smash, or a dash combo.

ROB, as I said, isn't TOO hard. You can easily rack up damage on him with turtle and fishbowl. The problem? You just can't kill him reliably. Once he is high up in damage, he starts camping with laser and gyro in addition to dsmash. If you approach him with a smash, you're dsmashed before you can get into range. If you turtle or key him off and edgeguard with something, good luck, because it will most likely not work because of his insane recovery / edge camp. If you fair while he's on the ground, you're grabbed. Mindgames that do not exactly ensure victory are a major part of dealing with ROB.

Well, that's all I have to say haha. Those are the most likely characters to beat G&W in my opinion.

PS: I personally don't find Toon Link to be too hard. His projectiles can easily be seen before they are used and often don't lead into setups; in addition, his killing methods are easily predicted and countered.

 

[Blistering Speed]

To be honest G&Ws only DISADVANTAGED matchups are Olimar and Tink. Anyone else people have mentioned are even, G&W users are just so used to having it easy, even matchups seem hard.

*Edit* Actually, Tink is even.

 

[Neb]

To be honest G&Ws only DISADVANTAGED matchups are Olimar and Tink. Anyone else people have mentioned are even, G&W users are just so used to having it easy, even matchups seem hard.

*Edit* Actually, Tink is even.

And...Olimar is like one of his easiest match-ups, :/.

 

[cutter]

Tink is not a neutral matchup. It is ~4/6 in favor of TL.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay, I suggest you guys play against my Ganondorf at least once.

This matchup can really take you off guard if you are not prepared for it. It's definitely in G&W's favor by a great margin, but a big part of the fight is momentum, which Ganondorf can be really good at swinging by simply landing a huge attack. I've taken down several n00b G&Ws easily because they don't know how to react to Ganondorf's attacks.

Firstoff, Ganondorf CAN challenge your range with an F-tilt. If he's willing to take some damage, he can trade hits with your aerials with this attack. For your sake, please avoid his F-tilt. It's really dangerous, and this attack is one of few things that makes G&W actually need to work in this matchup. Ganondorf's D-tilt also has amazing range, and in fact it extends further than the foot would suggest. Think how G&W's D-smash works and add that invisible range past Ganondorf's foot. It extends really far, and it can kill you.

Next, you can't D-throw -> Smash attack unless you techchase into a U-smash, and Ganondorf is fairly resistant to vertical kills due to being a fast faller and being heavy, and IIRC he can cancel some momentum with his Down-B.

G&W is completely helpless to Ganondorf's Forward B. Ganondorf can hit him with either a Jab, F-tilt, or D-tilt immediately from a Flame choke, and if you try to roll away, he can fairly easily follow up with a Dash attack or D-air. Don't do anything dumb against Ganondorf. You don't want to be Flame Choked against him, as this will help his diminishing returns, and can tack on like 21% with a Forward-B ->D-tilt, and 16% with a Jab follow up. If he keeps his D-tilt undiminished, it can kill G&W at like 110%, which is devastating.

Ledgeguard him. Do this. Ganondorf has one of the worst recoveries in Brawl. You have no excuse not to land a hit on him while he's recovering from afar.

I think you can duck under his grab and his Wizard's foot.

 

[Onxy]

Ftilt does have some range, but his Dtilt has way more, lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The F-tilt IMO is a better option though, since it has a higher hitbox, and you want to keep the D-tilt undiminished against G&W. Both attacks will trade hits with G&W's aerials if timed right.

 

[Dastrn]

For me, I have trouble with really campy Snakes, good toon links, good olimars, and that's about it. Metaknight isn't that bad for me. Dtilt and Dsmash just rip him in half.
Most snakes aren't that hard.
I think G&W slightly counters Marth.

 

[cutter]

Vs. Ganondorf, his dash attack and Dtilt (when they're fresh) can kill G&W at some suprisingly low percentages. Also beware autocancelled Dair to Usmash because that can pile on an easy 45% or kill G&W if he's in kill range.

As for the Flame Choke, can you tech it or is it impossible to tech? If you can't tech Flame Choke, I would advise using a get-up attack because G&W's roll is just so **** slow and it doesn't go far.

After all is said and done though G&W DOES have a large advantage over Ganondorf; I definately agree with that A2ZOMG. Even though Ganondorf's Ftilt and Dtilts can challenge G&W in range, they're not disjointed. Spacing with Bairs and Dtilt on the ground really helps against this.

It also seems Ganondorf is a prime target for Chef. He is very slow, and without a projectile he'll have a hard time getting through your wall of food.

This is all based off intuition. Nobody plays Ganondorf where I live.

 

[A2ZOMG]

As for the Flame Choke, can you tech it or is it impossible to tech? If you can't tech Flame Choke, I would advise using a get-up attack because G&W's roll is just so **** slow and it doesn't go far.

It is unblockable AND untechable. This attack is yet another thing that allows Ganondorf to potentially bring an upset. His techchase game is actually a lot better than yours in this matchup. You can't D-throw D-smash him. He can Jab, F-tilt, and D-tilt you as he pleases.

I discovered for myself that this matchup was winnable for Ganondorf when I played against Inui's Ganondorf. And from my experience actually using Ganondorf, the average not-so-remarkable G&W player will likely be very surprised by what Ganondorf can do to get around G&W's usual strategies.

 

[Greenstreet]

not sonic
olimar for me is tricky. mainly just pikmin spammers tho

 

[Dj Chopin]

i have been having the hardest time fighting wolf. yes the laser is bucketable. but usually they will only fire sparingly against GW, usually at odd times when i'm not ready to pull out the bucket. of course, the bigger problem is the fsmash and dsmash. sometimes i wonder what nintendo was thinking. if a move of mine clanks with wolf's dsmash, i usually find that they can get another one out before i can react. the fsmash though, dear god. they can be hilariously predictable with it and i still find myself getting hit by just the tip or something. wolf makes me angry. hes so heavy that he can just rack up damage with his broken ground smashes and even if i play cautiously i end up dead : ( i'm not a bad player, either!

also, i'm not quite sure how this works, but against most characters i'm able to dthrow > oil panic. ive made some game-ending mistakes with that against wolf though, it seems like he ends up on the wrong side of me for it to work. ive also noticed this with pikachu. any insight?

 

[chckn]

i have been having the hardest time fighting wolf. yes the laser is bucketable. but usually they will only fire sparingly against GW, usually at odd times when i'm not ready to pull out the bucket. of course, the bigger problem is the fsmash and dsmash. sometimes i wonder what nintendo was thinking. if a move of mine clanks with wolf's dsmash, i usually find that they can get another one out before i can react. the fsmash though, dear god. they can be hilariously predictable with it and i still find myself getting hit by just the tip or something. wolf makes me angry. hes so heavy that he can just rack up damage with his broken ground smashes and even if i play cautiously i end up dead : ( i'm not a bad player, either!

also, i'm not quite sure how this works, but against most characters i'm able to dthrow > oil panic. ive made some game-ending mistakes with that against wolf though, it seems like he ends up on the wrong side of me for it to work. ive also noticed this with pikachu. any insight?

Space yourself better and turtle like hell. Also when doing dthrow to bucket wait to see if they tech roll or end up behind you and then pivot before using it.

 

[Dj Chopin]

but is it true that some characters just land on the wrong side of you when you d-throw them? i lost a ladder match to a wolf who was at 40% on his last stock. i d-throwed him and immediately bucketed like i usually would. but without rolling at all, the wolf was just laying on the ground slightly behind me. ive noticed this with other characters as well, pikachu comes to mind. is there some sort of pattern to this? i know ppl say that techchase > bucket is better than d-throw > bucket, but against some chars you can just buffer the bucket as you are d-throwing them.

 

[Keoki]

i asked this same question on the mario boards (i mained mario, and had trouble against G&W) because G&W is marios hardest matchup. i got recommended to snake and marth as counter picks, and decided to pick up marth since he fit my play style better. i have to say, marth is doing pretty good against G&W for a couple reasons.
1. marth has good range and priority especially in the air so he can compete with G&W
2. marth has no projectiles to be tempted to use so bucket is useless
3. marth can counter G&W bair everytime since it becomes a predictable approach/retreat
4. marth kills G&W at rediculously low percent with tippered f-smash. kills at about 70 % (i killed my bothers G&W at 70 %. guess its not unusual for G&W though?)

in all id just say use who you like to use most against him, id say marth, snake, toon link, olimar, metaknight, and DK (long range fast tilts, kills early, and super armor neutral B to go through turtle for an easy kill) are his hardest matchups. check this matchup chart if you want http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979