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We need Wavedashing, we must take action to assure it
- Thread starter Mew2King
- Start date
- Status
If everyone in a class, and not just one person, all copies the answers to a test, is it still cheating? Yes, yes it is.
Teh Uber Parachuter
Smash Cadet
32 pages...
32 FREAKING PAGES!!!
It is obvious that WD'ing is very important to some people; however, judging by the reaction of many of the responders in this thread, most ppl could care less. It has already been said that the air dodge was changed, resulting in the axing of Wavedashing. That does not absolutely mean a conspiracy to destroy competitive smash at it's very foundation, that just making the game seem more realistic (it has already been said many times in this forum that Brawl would lean more to the realistic side)
Depth is all relative. It will not come nor go through the loss or gain of one technique. Again, I point to the physics engine. The change in physics is why Smash 64 differed from Melee, and why the same is happening between Melee and Brawl. I don't blame anyone for wanting Wavedashing back. However, please stop overreacting, and acting like Brawl is absolute and utter crap just because it's not there.
32 FREAKING PAGES!!!
It is obvious that WD'ing is very important to some people; however, judging by the reaction of many of the responders in this thread, most ppl could care less. It has already been said that the air dodge was changed, resulting in the axing of Wavedashing. That does not absolutely mean a conspiracy to destroy competitive smash at it's very foundation, that just making the game seem more realistic (it has already been said many times in this forum that Brawl would lean more to the realistic side)
Depth is all relative. It will not come nor go through the loss or gain of one technique. Again, I point to the physics engine. The change in physics is why Smash 64 differed from Melee, and why the same is happening between Melee and Brawl. I don't blame anyone for wanting Wavedashing back. However, please stop overreacting, and acting like Brawl is absolute and utter crap just because it's not there.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
How is that even remotely comparable? That's pretty much like everyone in a sport using steroids or, to make it more related, everyone using a controller mod to get super smash DIs. These are external ways to gain an advantage. Wavedashing is internal, since it's in the game and everyone can do it.
Dizzynin
Smash Rookie
That's a terrible analogy. So, to you, is using the A button to attack also considered cheating? just because everyone uses it?
With all due respect, so was Wavedashing. Clever manipulation of the game's physics with respect to the properties of airdodging.With all due respect, "Ink Dropping" is just exploiting physics that the developers put in intentionally. I can't speak on behalf of Moonwalking though, so if that's a glitch, I stand corrected.
And I really have to laugh at all the people who are bitter towards the current Pro players of Melee. We've been in this community tearing this game apart and playing it at it's highest levels for years now. Then the brawl demo is released, and we immediately come to learn that something that was so integral to Melee's metagame is no longer present in Brawl. What did you think would happen, we'd just shrug and let it go?
King Out
NES n00b
Smash Master
I smell failure at making analogies.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
No, you responded to Macman.
OMG!!!11 HE SHOULD LIKE, TOTALLY APOLOGIZE FOR THAT SHOULDN'T HE?
Newsflash: You're both morons, and Wavedashing and L Canceling are still not in Brawl! HAHAHAHAHAAA!! I'm like totally banned now! AWESOME!
a cheat being internal or external, especially when it was unintended to even exist within the matter that's being cheated, does not make it any less a cheat.
Regenerator
Smash Cadet
After almost 3 years, I finally got myself a sig!
xyouxarexuglyx2
Smash Lord
A very very long time.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Except you are relying on your "definition" of cheating, which is wrong. You can't argue with flawed logic.
and it took care of your point as well. i would have just repeated myself if i was going to reply to both of you directly.
Dizzynin
Smash Rookie
As long as it's not game-breaking, it's not cheating. Smash isn't the only competitive fighting game that uses exploits.
FalconPunch
Smash Journeyman
How the **** do you know it was unintended or are you Mr. Sakurai?
However, wavedashing was not given its own animation, therefore it was obviously not intended to be used like it was. All the parts in Ink Dropping have their own animation, therefore you can't really call it a glitch.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Um...no? It's technical skill, "mindgames", and general strategy. Wavedashing is just a fraction of technical skill, which is just a fraction of what makes the game competitive.
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
I hate that wavedashing is out too because I can't play without it, but honestly, Mew2King needs to stop johning and do whatever it takes to become the best again. I'm going to have to reconstruct my game from the ground up again, but I'm not gonna bltch and complain about it, because that isn't going to make me any better at this game.
Wow, how did this thread get to be so long?
Look, its a glitch. Some glitches evolve and become integral to the game, others are removed by the developers who feel that it channels the game in what they perceive to be the wrong direction. Sakurai feels that Wding should be removed or made far more difficult to perform. That isn't the end of the world guys.
Besides, I'm sure someone will find some other glitch within a month of the release that will be deemed an "advanced technique."
Look, its a glitch. Some glitches evolve and become integral to the game, others are removed by the developers who feel that it channels the game in what they perceive to be the wrong direction. Sakurai feels that Wding should be removed or made far more difficult to perform. That isn't the end of the world guys.
Besides, I'm sure someone will find some other glitch within a month of the release that will be deemed an "advanced technique."
that's funny coming from someone who said "The only thing that can be considered cheating is something that is unbeatable."
explain how my definition is wrong?
all the parts in wding have its own animation... i dont quite get yur point...
Brawl Melee 64
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 61
Hes not saying that wavedashing is cheating just because everyone can use it, he's saying its cheating because its a glitch that wasn't supposed to be in the game, and he is right. Read what he wrote before quoting him.
FalconPunch
Smash Journeyman
How do you know it wasn't supposed to be in. Do tell Mr. Sakurai.
its not a glitch...
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Ok fine.
Chaingrabs also altered the flow of gameplay. They could be ridiculous combos leading to other combos (like up-throw cg to uair juggle to smash or something), which end up taking up an entire stock. You know what else alters the flow of gameplay? Items, stage hazards, and all the other "fun" stuff Sakurai throws in there. Your definition of the proper flow of gameplay is your personal opinion, and you can't assume your opinion is fact.
Dizzynin
Smash Rookie
He wrote:
Tell me where in his post does he claim WD'ing is cheating because it was unintentionally added into the game, because I don't see it.
if it was an element of gameplay sakurai wanted in the game, i'm sure he would have kept it in, wouldn't he, mr. smartass?
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Quit grasping for straws. I already said that the other part of cheating is IMPLIED. Do you seriously think that I thought using external ways to gain an advantage was not cheating? Get some common sense please.
I'm gonna quit wasting time arguing with thickheaded scrubs and do hw.
Kirby knight
Smash Lord
Really? I really do doubt that Sakurai intentially got rid of wavedashing. He changed the physics of the air dodge, and wd'ing got cut in the process. People either are going to have to adapt to the changes Brawl brings or just go back to playing Melee.
-Knight
no, it's NOT my opinion. it's sakurai's. if it was a part of sakurai's idea of how the proper flow of gameplay in smash should be, HE WOULD KEEP IT IN.
and it's his world, so his opinion is FACT.
why are there so many of these threads?
why has this become such a heated topic?
Everybody plays the game differently much in the same way that people worship differently. Can people just respect that fact?
I love me some smash. I like seriously competitive matches, and I like non-competitive matches. What I don't like is all the name calling that's going on, and all these pointless threads that just seem to say the same thing over and over again.
some people are complaining about what's different in Brawl, some people are praising brawl for it's differences. Some people are labeling things as techniques, and others are calling them exploits. Some people want to stand apart from others in their smash ability, and others don't care.
why do we have to label people as scrubs/noobs/pros/serious/casual? What is there to prove? I have nothing to prove, and I don't care what you call me. The point is (hmm...maybe I do have something to prove if I'm making a point) at the end of the day, do you really feel better about yourself because you're not a scrub/noob? Do you really feel better about yourself if you were able to tell someone that they take the game to seriously?
Why are both sides of this debate so extreme? If anything, it seems that the real majority of smashers are the ones in between these two labels, and the rest want to label them as one or the other out of what...convenience?
please please please please please...no more WDing threads, no more complaining that AT's from melee are gone, no more rejoicing because you think you won the debate of whether it's a glitch or not, no more arguing things by simply saying scrubs or noob, no more implying that pros are nothing without their ATs, no more stupid arguing of moot points that do nothing but divide a community of gamers that should be able to get along.
at the end of the day, one's video game ability is not determined by advanced techniques, exploiting glitches, or being able to argue a point on the internet. If you're good at video games, you're good at video games. If you have the determination and passion to be better, you'll probably get better. PERIOD.
why has this become such a heated topic?
Everybody plays the game differently much in the same way that people worship differently. Can people just respect that fact?
I love me some smash. I like seriously competitive matches, and I like non-competitive matches. What I don't like is all the name calling that's going on, and all these pointless threads that just seem to say the same thing over and over again.
some people are complaining about what's different in Brawl, some people are praising brawl for it's differences. Some people are labeling things as techniques, and others are calling them exploits. Some people want to stand apart from others in their smash ability, and others don't care.
why do we have to label people as scrubs/noobs/pros/serious/casual? What is there to prove? I have nothing to prove, and I don't care what you call me. The point is (hmm...maybe I do have something to prove if I'm making a point) at the end of the day, do you really feel better about yourself because you're not a scrub/noob? Do you really feel better about yourself if you were able to tell someone that they take the game to seriously?
Why are both sides of this debate so extreme? If anything, it seems that the real majority of smashers are the ones in between these two labels, and the rest want to label them as one or the other out of what...convenience?
please please please please please...no more WDing threads, no more complaining that AT's from melee are gone, no more rejoicing because you think you won the debate of whether it's a glitch or not, no more arguing things by simply saying scrubs or noob, no more implying that pros are nothing without their ATs, no more stupid arguing of moot points that do nothing but divide a community of gamers that should be able to get along.
at the end of the day, one's video game ability is not determined by advanced techniques, exploiting glitches, or being able to argue a point on the internet. If you're good at video games, you're good at video games. If you have the determination and passion to be better, you'll probably get better. PERIOD.
and now you result to ad hominem.
there's a difference between "thick headed" and "right".
just because you can't find a flaw in my arguement that you can get through, you quit and attack me personally because there's nothing left for you to do.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Your assuming that Sakurai's new air-dodge was aimed at removing wding. Are you Sakurai? I don't think so, and therefore you can't just assume that.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I'm finding flaws galore lol. You just choose to ignore them, hence you being thickheaded.
CronoMaster
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
- Messages
- 132
As i said before, i dont get why "pros" are so concerned about details like this, really, i mean, is just a move, and is not even that useful
I really wanted to play against the pros, but after seeing those wavedashing videos of the finals, and reading posts like this one, i just dont care anymore, it wouldnt be worth to travel all the way to USA just to fight with some guys that do a f*ckin "advanced technique" the whole fight, and cant stand the fact that brawl will be a different game and are crying about it
Thanks tough, i no longer feel the need to spend a lot of money going there for a tournament, and i hope there are good players out there whom i can play with, not the so called "pros"
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Pfft, Wavedashing is too over ratted by both Noobs and Pros. Oh well, Its better for me. Since I main Jigglypuff I hardly use wavedashing since I'm in the air. So Everybody else gets a disadvantage but me because it barley affects me. I'll be like "I'mma gonna WOP u with Jigglypuff" and you guys are gonna be like "Omg I can't wavedashing and avoid jiggly's WOP" = I win. But then again, Jigglypuff's got to be in brawl and that technique still has to work. And with the high damage Jiggly aint going nowhere. I can still knock you off on the bottom. But you can't do that to me. Jigglypuff is going to be Top Tier and u all know it!
sakurai was aware of the pro scene and was aware of the majority of things that had been discovered in his game, ESPECIALLY the biggest of all being wavedashing.
he wouldn't have made so drastic a change that would remove such a widely used technique without completely being aware that this change would result in the removal of this technique. he obviously chose wavedashing wasn't something he wanted in the game.
that's not an assumption, that's common sense.
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