We need Wavedashing, we must take action to assure it

[bovineblitzkrieg]

Yeah it was unintentional, but then they found it and said "wow this is pretty cool, let's leave it in and see what people do with it"

And a legend was born. Has there ever been a faster game than Melee?

 

[Mama]

Whether he knew about or not (he knew about it but it doesn't really matter for my next point) doesn't change the fact that he wasn't actively trying to remove everything advanced. We can see from the brawl demo that he is TRYING to make brawl casual. We did not see that from SSB to SSBM.

By eliminating one technique? Honestly its the people like you .....

Advanced play is more than techniques for starters. And you don't know what advanced things have yet to be discovered for Brawl. Thats all I'm going to say to you. Come back when you reach the acceptance phase...

 

[Mama]

Yeah it was unintentional, but then they found it and said "wow this is pretty cool, let's leave it in and see what people do with it"

And a legend was born. Has there ever been a faster game than Melee?

Street Fighter...

double post ftw.

 

[Dan-E]

Removing something that was unintentionally added is fine by me. It wasn't meant to be in Melee, so let it go.
If they removed something that WAS intentional, like say L CANCELLING, then yes, I would be quite upset.

Let it go guys, seriously.

It wasn't mean to be in Melee therefore there's no way it could contribute to the game at all right? If I'm not mistaken a lot of the best/most popular/competitive fighting games on the market exploit glitches. If it makes the game better why the heck should they remove it? Doesn't make any sense especially if removing it detracts from the game.

L-Cancelling is gone dude... Be upset.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Street Fighter...

double post ftw.

QFT, it's as if most SWF members don't even know other fighting games.

 

[red stone]

lol mew2king. what are you afraid your throne could be taken away from you once brawl hits? j/k

but seriously, if it's not in, don't freak. there'll be other advanced techs to learn and get around.

i'll sign the petition though. i just like directional air dodging overall

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

By eliminating one technique? Honestly its the people like you .....

Advanced play is more than techniques for starters. And you don't know what advanced things have yet to be discovered for Brawl. Thats all I'm going to say to you. Come back when you reach the acceptance phase...

Well I'm still in the annoyed stage because I want this game to be FASTER. They're gonna do what they do, I know, but I want breakneck speed mindgames, half the fun was overwhelming other people with your crazy quick tactics and outthinking them.

Sure, we're still gonna have the mindgames, and it's true that that's really what the game is about, but the faster, the more overwhelming, the more intense, and the more amazement, the more fun.

Maybe there will be another magical way to speed up the game, but idk it looks floaty and a lot slower, and it lacks the most interesting aspect of melee, so I'm afraid. I'm afraid that my favorite video game franchise won't live up to expectations.

I don't want a casual fighter, I want the deepest and fastest game possible. Newbs will be newbs, but I hope they make the game sufficiently deep for us tourney players, or the hype will fade.

 

[Goldkirby]

Yeah it was unintentional, but then they found it and said "wow this is pretty cool, let's leave it in and see what people do with it"

And a legend was born. Has there ever been a faster game than Melee?

Yes, it's called Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Guilty Gear XX is also faster then Melee.

 

[red stone]

i believe that melee has the potential to become the fastest fighter if all foxes bazillion shined and powershielded each one

 

[Red_Maniac]

Where's that GIF showing the Brawl air dodge?

 

[Gilgamesh]

I don't want a casual fighter, I want the deepest and fastest game possible. Newbs will be newbs, but I hope they make the game sufficiently deep for us tourney players, or the hype will fade.

Lightning-Speed Brawl FTW then.




Perhaps they'll keep it along with Slo-mo. (i don't remember if it's been confirmed already)

 

[SSoH]

We NEED wavedashing? Honestly, we don't need it for it to be a good game. Sure, it added a lot of depth and different things we could do with it, it opened up a ****load of doors to change the game. But need it? If it's out, it's out. Just look for other stuff in the game that helps you get an edge or stick to melee.

 

[Dan-E]

By eliminating one technique? Honestly its the people like you .....

Advanced play is more than techniques for starters. And you don't know what advanced things have yet to be discovered for Brawl. Thats all I'm going to say to you. Come back when you reach the acceptance phase...

wtf... did he eliminate just ONE technique?? NO!!! he eliminated lcancelling, wavedashing, and ledge sweetspotting all of which made the game competitive. geeze.

Of course I don't know what advanced thing have yet to be discovered. But it looks like Sakurai doesn't want their to BE any advanced things to discover. If I'm wrong then hey I'm the happiest guy on earth but from what we've seen so far, Sakurai is actively trying to do away with competitive play by eliminating the techniques.

And guess what??? Advanced play does rely on techniques. It's what separates the good from the bad. Without that it's just mindgames and you might as well play rock paper scissors

 

[BubbleShield]

Street Fighter...

double post ftw.

Guilty Gear. nuff said

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

We NEED wavedashing? Honestly, we don't need it for it to be a good game. Sure, it added a lot of depth and different things we could do with it, it opened up a ****load of doors to change the game. But need it? If it's out, it's out. Just look for other stuff in the game that helps you get an edge or stick to melee.

If only they put melee online...

 

[BigRick]

Street Fighter...

double post ftw.

lol street fighter is slower than Melee.

Marvel and GGXX are faster

EDIT: lol just noticed a few said it b4 me... gj guys

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

wtf... did he eliminate just ONE technique?? NO!!! he eliminated lcancelling, wavedashing, and ledge sweetspotting all of which made the game competitive. geeze.

Of course I don't know what advanced thing have yet to be discovered. But it looks like Sakurai doesn't want their to BE any advanced things to discover. If I'm wrong then hey I'm the happiest guy on earth but from what we've seen so far, Sakurai is actively trying to do away with competitive play by eliminating the techniques.

And guess what??? Advanced play does rely on techniques. It's what separates the good from the bad. Without that it's just mindgames and you might as well play rock paper scissors

God sweetspotting too?

Mindgames will still be fun but if they dont come up with something to replace those techniques, I'll probably just stick to Melee.

I'm extremely sad.

 

[Shadower]

Wavedashing gone will ensure the veteran fighters to find a new way, if you can only play in one way then your screwed when you have to play someone you would never expect and get yur butt handed to you. If you can't learn how to adapt, then go ahead complain about wavedashing but the pros are going to find a new way and beat you.

 

[NES n00b]

If only they put melee online...

Agreed. I would love that so much.

 

[marthmaster04]

Lol wavedashing definetly lends a LOT to competitive smash, but really. Its not something thats absolutely needed. Its more like...more liiike..a great perk with lots of uses. =D

 

[DainBramaged]

If there's a petition, I'll sign.

Wavedashing added a whole new gameplan to smash.....why take that away? If you don't like it, don't use it, but no need to get rid of it O_o

 

[Andromeda]

I've always wondered how Melee would be without the advanced techs. I know it wouldn't be as deep as it is with them, but would the game be more fun? Would it take more of the pros to win against scrubs? The metagame in Melee would've been very unlike the one it has today. But still, the difference between a pro or a scrub would be obvious, just as it is today. There will always be flaws in a game that the more skilled ones will abuse to their advantage. Brawl is not different. The metagame of Melee has been formed by the WD's and L-cancels. Even if those techniques are gone in Brawl, it will evolve it's own unique metagame in time, formed by it's own flaws that were not present in Melee. Noone can say that they play Smash64 the same way as they play Melee. The two differ too much from eachother. That's the same case with Brawl. To make it differ from Melee, the advanced techs have to go. In the end, players will suit themselves with the game based on how it's metagame's been formed. There really is no point in complaining.

 

[Revak]

Yes, a wavedashing petition will convince them just like that demo petition did.

 

[Wurmtoken]

I remember when I switched from SSB to SSBM. I was like: Gahhhhh why are all the actions off from what I'm used to!!!

I got over it.

 

[Vall3y]

if brawl = depth
then brawl+wd = more depth = better
no johns. why would nintendo take it out if not to make it more nooby?

 

[BentoBox]

Because sacrificing the fun of that 2% representing nothing but spoiled whiny brats seemed worth it for the greater good? Dunno.

**** I hope you're joking Mew2King.

If not then thats would I'd call a terrible example of a pro player. That and Dylan Tnga. You clearly forgot or simply never realized that it was the players that gave Melee its depth. When Melee first came out people didn't know what was in store and a lot of people were saying it would never be as good as Smash64.

We don't know every little detail/new technique we'll discover in Brawl. Wave Dashing may add depth to Melee but Brawl's depth will be discovered as we play it and not based off of the differences between it and Melee. So stop crying about the game losing its depth when all you have to go on is a simple demo, a few videos and pictures. Thats just silly.

And taking out lag means one less button to press for the pros. I don't care about making things harder for the sake of being hard. Not to mention that it might be something specifically for the DEMO seeing as how the real game is still months away. Its too early going by the previous release date. Stop jumping the gun and crying foul its far far too soon and you're making the rest of the advanced players seem like a bunch of tech junkies.

Q eff d em eff tee

 

[Omega_Star]

I don't think they were specifically trying to remove wavedashing; I think they just wanted to change up air dodging. Now air dodging has a whole new dimension attached to it, what with the fact that you aren't totally helpless until you land.

Besides, Brawl sounds like it has a totally new dynamic, so wavedashing might not have fit into place quite as well as it did in Melee. I love wavedashing but it is because of this that I'm able to accept it's departure; it's a whole new Smash, and that's what I find most exciting about Brawl.

 

[Ja]

Even though I'm kinda a noob to SSBM, I have played other games competitively and I've watched a ton of top level videos. M2K is right, WDing adds a *lot* of depth to melee and it being out of Brawl Is A Bad Thing TM. It adds movement options from shield, and makes spacing much more complex. It's not like WDing is a difficult tech either, it took me maybe 4 days (2hrs a day?) to be comfortable with it and to be able to WD back and forth across FD fluidly as Marth.

Automatic L canceling I won't miss though. I mean it's just less effort and manual L canceling adds no depth as there isn't a situation where you wouldn't want to L cancel.

I will say though that I'm glad that Brawl is slower, and so it seems much easier technically. Hopefully I'll be able to do all the techs without needing to claw.

Seriously no WDing is a big deal and I'll sign your (futile) petition to bring it back.

 

[Fletch]

if brawl = depth
then brawl+wd = more depth = better
no johns. why would nintendo take it out if not to make it more nooby?

Let's see someone argue with this...

 

[BentoBox]

Brawl seems to put a lot more emphasis on aerial movements, combats and mobility. Ground games might not be as important in Brawl.

 

[Maricalistaro]

Im tired of hearing about wavedashing, I like wavedashin just fine, But Jeezum Criminy. Maybe I should start a petition against wavedashing threads.

 

[BentoBox]

Don't you know. AT = oxygen.

 

[slikvik]

wavedashing aside. why was L-cancelling removed? Especially when it was purposely implemented in melee

 

[GreenKirby]

if brawl = depth
then brawl+wd = more depth = better
no johns. why would nintendo take it out if not to make it more nooby?

Because of balance issues. People NEED to stop thinking like players and think like developers.

 

[Kirby knight]

Could someone please tell me why "We need wavedashing in brawl"? Would this conversation even have come up if a brawl demo was not released? Those judging Brawl and saying it's inferior to melee just because of what? A demo? That's all it is a demo. You cannot fully judge a game until the full release comes out.

To have such a respectable person such as M2K act in such a way is truly childish. I could see a topic like this being more viable if people had Brawl in their hands and were testing it themselves, but that is not the case.

Reserve your full judgements until Brawl is released; doing so beforehand is just stupid.

-Knight

 

[BentoBox]

@valley
Because there was no natural way of implementing (because it was simply overlooked in Melee) Wavedashing without altering its current characteristics.

 

[veil222]

I'm tired of WD threads... new game, new techs, get over it, get used to it, get good with what's there and quit *****ing about what isn't. Don't like it, don't play, and don't bother people who aren't as narrowminded as you with this stupid crap about how you think a few techs can make or break a new game that doesn't even work on the same effing physics.

 

[Formless]

It's not called SSBM2 for a reason. Don't worry, all fighting games eventually are exploited by fans. It's a different game, it'll have different techniques.

 

[shadenexus18]

wavedash = mojo

Well, for Smash veterans anyway! Heh....I'm glad I'm not that reliant on this and this alone.

 

[BigRick]

wavedashing aside. why was L-cancelling removed? Especially when it was purposely implemented in melee

Seriously slikvik this has been argued alot of times already... search for it on the brawl boards...

Basically, ppl agreed that L-canceling added technical depth to the game however it doesn't add strategical depth to it. So keeping L-cancels or not are a matter of what skills you want to prioritize in your game... strategy or tech.