wave dashin in brawl

[ggPeteQ]

I could swear I saw Mario wavesmash at the end of the trailer when snake's hidding. Someone might want to double check that since I'm not too sure just exactly how a wavedash will look in Brawl.

 

[Neo M.J]

Nope he didnt do a wavedash, and lets not forget that that trailer was only a few months old. It could change when the game is released late next year.

 

[Ophelius]

True. But like I said. If they take out wavedashing, what will they put in? Squaredancing, circlepopping, spiraljumping? A bit rediculous, don't you think?

 

[Zombie Cola]

True. But like I said. If they take out wavedashing, what will they put in? Squaredancing, circlepopping, spiraljumping? A bit rediculous, don't you think?

That statement makes no sense. They wouldn't replace it, there is nothing to replace, it's not like if they took out jumping, it's a physics exploit not a move.

 

[SiegK]

That statement makes no sense. They wouldn't replace it, there is nothing to replace, it's not like if they took out jumping, it's a physics exploit not a move.

This has all been said b4. And what he said is true. We know its not a move and we know that its in the game. We know that they will take it out or keep it in, not change it. We dont know why it would or wouldnt be in brawl. So lets stop saying we do or would what be best or what can be done to the move, cause its not a move. Its a glitch, accept it. It was or wasnt ment to be, if it was then as nintendo sent in the email (if he even knew what WDing was anyway, still stands that) if nintendo had known about it thet it WOULD have been added in the guid or w/e to tell players about teh game, accept it. All we can do it w8 for the wii and argue what we would like to see happen with what is already true, not making crap up that has already been put down, such as "mario WDs in the trailer" or "they ment it as a secret move" (cause nintendo statd that it would have been noted), and just give ideas that lay upon the PROPERTIES that already be. Please and Thank You.

Sieg King Kirby

 

[Amon Yakamoto]

That statement makes no sense. They wouldn't replace it, there is nothing to replace, it's not like if they took out jumping, it's a physics exploit not a move.

Thats your opinion buddy. But 4real cuz, Think of it this way.

When u watch the how to play, they don't teach u all the moves.
why don't they teach u how to air-item-grab
see
so why can't wavedashing be a move, when anyone can just as easily say that the air-item-grab is a physics exploit.

 

[bbb]

when anyone can just as easily say that the air-item-grab is a physics exploit.

That's not true, that was specifically programmed into the game, wave dashing is just the biproduct of air dodging.

 

[cb_marth]

Wavedashing should be in Brawl. Yes it wasn't technically surpose to be in Melee but once people figured it out and mastered it, it was very popular. I mean its a huge part of a lot of peoples style. When playing in tournments and other events. I can see Nintendo adding it into Brawl becuase of its popularity over the years. I mean they want to do whats best for the game and gamers. Not putting wavedashing in there is just going to get people whinning and saying "NO WAVEDASHING WTF NINTENDO?" and stuff like that haha. So I say they will want to add as much as they can to this game which is why it isn't going to be let out until mid-late 2007.

 

[bbb]

Don't get me wrong, I love to wave dash. But don't go thinking it was intentional or specifically programmed into the game, because it wasn't. As a programmer I have this thing with programming ignorance.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Plan 9 is the only person in here with any programming knowledge what so ever. It isn't a move, it wasn't programmed in, that's more than obvious, if you WD and don't understand that it is truly a biproduct of a culmination of several different gameplay techniques, then please do not flame/comment on the technique. If you had ANY idea of how to code a physics engine, or how much of a pain it is to slow/stop momentum with collision detection then you would know what we are saying. It isn't a move, therefor there wouldn't be any REPLACING to do.

 

[Green'n'Clean]

Remember the glitch Z-cancelling (some call it l-cancelling) in SSB64?
That glitch removed all the lag from your airial moves.
They decided to keep it in SSBM (in SSBM it is most commonly called l-cancelling), however, it only cancels half of the lag in SSBM.

As they've decided to keep implement a glitch in the gameplay before, they may do it again.
If so, may the world rejoice.

 

[cb_marth]

Remember the glitch Z-cancelling (some call it l-cancelling) in SSB64?
That glitch removed all the lag from your airial moves.
They decided to keep it in SSBM (in SSBM it is most commonly called l-cancelling), however, it only cancels half of the lag in SSBM.

As they've decided to keep implement a glitch in the gameplay before, they may do it again.
If so, may the world rejoice.

Ha I never thought about that. You are right about that, so why not do it agian haha.

 

[bbb]

Dude, that wasn't a glitch for the umpteenth time, that was intentionally programmed into the game.

 

[MetaKnight0]

rofl I laugh everytime someone says 'email Nintendo to find out if wavedashing is a glitch'

1. You're getting an automated message.
2. You're not emailing the right person. You know, the people who developed the physics for SSBM = / I'm sure they're doing big things like handling the thousands of emails Nintendo gets everyday from stupid emails asking questions asked a million times.

You air dodge into the ground. The momentum carries over into your character's ground movement. The traction of the character (probably other things) dictate how far this momentum will carry the character.

Traction also affects powershield sliding, and probably a lot of other things.

The only ways they are gonna get rid of wavedashing is if they either make it impossible to cancel your airdodge by landing on the ground or make any momentum from the airdodge not transfer to the landing.

 

[Zombie Cola]

rofl I laugh everytime someone says 'email Nintendo to find out if wavedashing is a glitch'

1. You're getting an automated message.
2. You're not emailing the right person. You know, the people who developed the physics for SSBM = / I'm sure they're doing big things like handling the thousands of emails Nintendo gets everyday from stupid emails asking questions asked a million times.

You air dodge into the ground. The momentum carries over into your character's ground movement. The traction of the character (probably other things) dictate how far this momentum will carry the character.

Traction also affects powershield sliding, and probably a lot of other things.

The only ways they are gonna get rid of wavedashing is if they either make it impossible to cancel your airdodge by landing on the ground or make any momentum from the airdodge not transfer to the landing.

You are a ****ing moron. There are a million and one ways to remove wavedashing, you have no idea what you speak of. This isn't a representation of real world physics, this isn't Half-Life 2. The physics of a game can be tweaked to do anything you want, that's why we call it programming. The fact that you said

(probably other things)

provides more that enough proof that you haven't the slightest idea of how many different variables culminate in exploits like your precious wavedash. Don't throw away half arsed opinions about that which you do not understand.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

plan_9 we all know that L-canceling isn't a glitch but Z-canceling wasn't intentionally programmed, at least I think i don't think it was. I'm with Zombie for most of it and agree with what he replied to MetaKnight, It's still a physics engine exploit.

How can you people have never though about making it into a proper move like l-canceling when we've been talking about it just a couple of pages back.

 

[bbb]

I'm pretty sure Z-canceling was intentionally put into the game.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

THERE IS NO PROOF (ZOMG) I reckon it's just random code that if it happens as you land it causes an effect they didn't mean or realise.

 

[Amon Yakamoto]

You air dodge into the ground. The momentum carries over into your character's ground movement. The traction of the character (probably other things) dictate how far this momentum will carry the character.

Traction also affects powershield sliding, and probably a lot of other things.

The only ways they are gonna get rid of wavedashing is if they either make it impossible to cancel your airdodge by landing on the ground or make any momentum from the airdodge not transfer to the landing.

What else needs to be said!? this makes perfect sense, why continue with theories when this is a almost flawless explanation, couldn't have worded it better myself, well..., I could have but, ya know, I'm too lazy so,.......yep

 

[Zombie Cola]

What else needs to be said!? this makes perfect sense, why continue with theories when this is a almost flawless explanation, couldn't have worded it better myself, well..., I could have but, ya know, I'm too lazy so,.......yep

Read my response and you WILL understand that this doesn not make perfect sense. That theory is full of holes, it is an exploit, it is a culmination of several different physics properties. To make this a single button move would be the equivilant of making an air dodge one button, in that you don't jump and dodge, you just air dodge. It would be impracticle, it wasn't intentionally programmed. Now, if it was left in is yet to be seen, but don't kid yourself, this wasn't an intentional move.

 

[Amon Yakamoto]

Read my response and you WILL understand that this doesn not make perfect sense. That theory is full of holes, it is an exploit, it is a culmination of several different physics properties. To make this a single button move would be the equivilant of making an air dodge one button, in that you don't jump and dodge, you just air dodge. It would be impracticle, it wasn't intentionally programmed. Now, if it was left in is yet to be seen, but don't kid yourself, this wasn't an intentional move.

hmmmmmmm.......Well I try to stay neutral in this but he said exactly what my opinion was but, I did read early on about how its an exploit of the physics. So with that said, (even though I know a tid bit bout programmin), I still won't come to an absolute conclusion on the matter, because both sides to this argument are backed by some facts. But I will only say this In my opinion it would be nice for wavedashing to be in Brawl. But for now (again in my opinion) I believe it may be best to quite simply wait it out til the game drops, or someone do a documentary with a whole bunch of proof, examples, scientific explanations of the physics of SSBM, ect... where its 100% irrefuteable then this little debate can end early. I don't know the physics of the game as in-depth as those of you debating this so I will leave this up to you all and I will study each sides argument and form my own "opinion" based on the facts, til Nintendo has given us a complete confirmation on the whole matter.

 

[Zombie Cola]

hmmmmmmm.......Well I try to stay neutral in this but he said exactly what my opinion was but, I did read early on about how its an exploit of the physics. So with that said, (even though I know a tid bit bout programmin), I still won't come to an absolute conclusion on the matter, because both sides to this argument are backed by some facts. But I will only say this In my opinion it would be nice for wavedashing to be in Brawl. But for now (again in my opinion) I believe it may be best to quite simply wait it out til the game drops, or someone do a documentary with a whole bunch of proof, examples, scientific explanations of the physics of SSBM, ect... where its 100% irrefuteable then this little debate can end early. I don't know the physics of the game as in-depth as those of you debating this so I will leave this up to you all and I will study each sides argument and form my own "opinion" based on the facts, til Nintendo has given us a complete confirmation on the whole matter.

I agree with that. It is your opnion and you are completely entitled to it. Sorry if I seemed to jump down your throat about that. We will just have to see what happens when the game releases.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Zombie speaks the truth.

 

[MetaKnight0]

Well looks like my post pissed off zombie here.

How do I not know what I'm talking about? How do you know that there are several variables that affect wavedashing? Please master of the physics engine of SSBM, explain what other variables would be involved. Because as I see it, two variables are able to perfectly explain what happens.

Horizontal velocity of the airdodge (affected by angle of air dodge; explains why a deep, non 45 degree wavedash goes further)
Traction of the character, or the coefficient of friction that the character has, which dictates the deceleration of the character.

If you pay attention you can see this happen with a lot of other stuff (like powershielding)

Now please explain to me how I have holes in this theory. You have not proven otherwise; all you've done is thrown a tantrum and call me names. Theories can be altered by information that challenges it, after all. I doubt calling me a ****ing moron is going to make me think otherwise though = /

 

[Zombie Cola]

The only ways they are gonna get rid of wavedashing is if they either make it impossible to cancel your airdodge by landing on the ground or make any momentum from the airdodge not transfer to the landing.

Err, ok... once again. It's programming. You could have the game cancel all momentum at the moment the collision detection kicks in from the impact of your hitbox with the ground. You could cause an automoatic delay in the airdodge and the next button press, be it an direction or an attack. It's all a matter of imagination and programming ability. If they do in fact use a new physics engine then there will be an endless number of ways to remove the wavedash, as a new physics engine normally means more advanced physics....which means all the transfering of momentum would/should be removed....of course this last bit is all a matter of opinion.

 

[cb_marth]

Guys everything Zombie says is true. Must you all have so much pride. Sorry for getting involved I won't replie again -_-' Just had to speak out. I have a problem -_-'. lol

 

[MetaKnight0]

Err, ok... once again. It's programming. You could have the game cancel all momentum at the moment the collision detection kicks in from the impact of your hitbox with the ground. You could cause an automoatic delay in the airdodge and the next button press, be it an direction or an attack. It's all a matter of imagination and programming ability. If they do in fact use a new physics engine then there will be an endless number of ways to remove the wavedash, as a new physics engine normally means more advanced physics....which means all the transfering of momentum would/should be removed....of course this last bit is all a matter of opinion.

1. Collision detection detect hitbox and cancels momentum? Wow I just totally thought of an even worse exploit that could be done (think about it). Did I not already suggest this by saying a fix for wavedashing could be to prevent momentum transfer from the airdodge? You really just paraphrased this and expanded it so it is inclusive to every time that contact is made with the ground.

Not to mention that it's a bad idea. It certainly would feel wrong to play a character with a low coefficient of friction and have them not move at all when they land. There are other times that landing on the ground and sliding takes place other than wavedashing = /

2. There already is a delay in airdodge landing. 10 frames or so, or 1/6th a second. Increasing delay would certainly nerf wavedash, if nothing else.

Wavedashing isn't an exploit of a glitch. It can be explained perfectly through mere observation. While the intention of the programmers was certainly not Wavedashes, it really is just an application of the physics engine, not a miscalculation or error that causes anything originally unwanted by the programmers.

 

[S P I K E]

Zombie Cola... Do you have any background at all in Physics? It doesn't seem like it, you're a bit misinformed. There are concrete laws that state, energy is conserved. Energy cannot be destroyed... This includes momentum... Conservation of momentum... You can't just cancel out momentum from an equation. Fact of the matter, the only thing that cancels momentum, or another force, would be a conflicting force, pushing in the opposite direction... In the case of wavedashing, friction is the conflicting force.... Now go ahead, do some research, the friction that is implemented through the force of gravity and the coefficient of friction of the material en route of the airdodge, would not be enough to cancel all momentum immediately. If it were so that the friction of the surface was too great to allow sliding, it would become a tumble. Either way, the momentum must be conserved... So tell me, what's the deal with your opinion that wavedashing "would/should" be removed? Disprove me and I'll stop laughing. =P

And thank you MetaKnight for restating what I proved already earlier in this thread. =) You're my hero. =D

 

[Zombie Cola]

Zombie Cola... Do you have any background at all in Physics? It doesn't seem like it, you're a bit misinformed. There are concrete laws that state, energy is conserved. Energy cannot be destroyed... This includes momentum... Conservation of momentum... You can't just cancel out momentum from an equation. Fact of the matter, the only thing that cancels momentum, or another force, would be a conflicting force, pushing in the opposite direction... In the case of wavedashing, friction is the conflicting force.... Now go ahead, do some research, the friction that is implemented through the force of gravity and the coefficient of friction of the material en route of the airdodge, would not be enough to cancel all momentum immediately. If it were so that the friction of the surface was too great to allow sliding, it would become a tumble. Either way, the momentum must be conserved... So tell me, what's the deal with your opinion that wavedashing "would/should" be removed? Disprove me and I'll stop laughing. =P

And thank you MetaKnight for restating what I proved already earlier in this thread. =) You're my hero. =D

Actually Spike, I am currently working on a Computer Science degree with a concentration in RTIS. So I am required to minor in either mathematics or physics, coincidentally I chose the latter of the two. First and foremost, I want to state that you bringing up real world physics was pointless (as I stated on the previous page) because the laws of the universe CLEARLY do not apply here, as we can move through the air with no additional energy, and there is little to no transfer of energy acted out in anything but character to character, and or, character to prop contact. That being said, I give you my rebbutal.

Ok, so you speak of the transfer of momentum, which actually doesn't apply here, because Melee uses a Real-Time physics engine, which apply ONLY to rigid body dynamics, and are completely incapable of rendering soft body dynamics. Now you spoke of the transfer of momentum, which, is almost impossible to do in a real-time physics engine, as they individual properties of axis points (joints: knees elbows etc...), malleable points (pads of feet, palms of hands), and rotation points (balls of feet,rolling off of hands). So the transfer of motion that you speak of would result in some VERY odd physical properties, e.g. rigid, plank like reactions from the impact of your character with the ground. The problem is, when using a real-time engine, you have to pick and choose which properties and laws you apply, as the processing power of the Gamecube isn't capable of advanced physical properties as mentioned above. To properly process such properties (thats a lot of pro words) the console would need a much faster CPU, say an upper level AMD, or one of the new pentium Dual Core's, similar to the processors you would use to play a game like Half-Life 2, or any game based off the source engine for that matter. Now, this doesn't exaclty fit but I though I'd bring it up anyway. For a while now I have been saying that I thought Nintendo would use a new physics engine for Brawl, well, my apologies to Kraid. The "Broadway" is shaping up to be VERY similar to the "Gekko" used in the Gamecube. It draws about 20% less power from the console, therefor requiring less energy to power the Wii in general, only problem is, low energy processors are not made for higher end work, e.g High-End physics engines and the the like. So don't expect a radical change in the phsysics you see in Brawl.

That being said, Spike, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on physics, especially for a 16 year old. I was wondering if you had taken an AP Phys. class or if you just knew a handful of info?

 

[S P I K E]

Ah well, just to clear a few things up, for some reason I can't edit posts on this particular computer, so I'll get to that later. To answer that, the high school I'm in is basically an AP school, we take courses past the required level in NYS as far as I know. With the Physics classes I've taken, I've done a little research off to the side by myself. Einstein's theory of relativity and the like. Without getting off topic, earlier in the thread, you stated that hardly anyone in this thread seemed to have any programming experiance except yourself and someone else. You failed to mention me there, as I posted the extent of my experiance in programming. =P Not that it's great or anything, but I do have some. The capabilities of the CPU may not be able to handle the implementing of all the laws of physics into every situation of the game yes, but there are some things they can fix. One of those is the carrying of momentum from the air dodge to the ground. Seeing as someone tryed to discredit one of my posts earlier by saying that using modes of cheating can not be used as concrete evidence... Debug Mode isn't cheating. U_U It's what the developers used to "debug" the game... The fact that it shows wavedashing or wavelanding as a special landing should be enough proof that it was intended, and as I have said numerous times, intended to fix a problem, not to be used and implemented by players as it is today.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Ah well, just to clear a few things up, for some reason I can't edit posts on this particular computer, so I'll get to that later. To answer that, the high school I'm in is basically an AP school, we take courses past the required level in NYS as far as I know. With the Physics classes I've taken, I've done a little research off to the side by myself. Einstein's theory of relativity and the like. Without getting off topic, earlier in the thread, you stated that hardly anyone in this thread seemed to have any programming experiance except yourself and someone else. You failed to mention me there, as I posted the extent of my experiance in programming. =P Not that it's great or anything, but I do have some. The capabilities of the CPU may not be able to handle the implementing of all the laws of physics into every situation of the game yes, but there are some things they can fix. One of those is the carrying of momentum from the air dodge to the ground. Seeing as someone tryed to discredit one of my posts earlier by saying that using modes of cheating can not be used as concrete evidence... Debug Mode isn't cheating. U_U It's what the developers used to "debug" the game... The fact that it shows wavedashing or wavelanding as a special landing should be enough proof that it was intended, and as I have said numerous times, intended to fix a problem, not to be used and implemented by players as it is today.

Someone actually debated you by stating that debug was a cheat?....... Wow. Anyway, at this point it's all opinion. I am not sure if a Real-Time physics engine could process the transfer of motion that precisely, however I don't know, so as of right now I can't prove it. The debug stating the "special" when using a wavedash also applies to a few other moves, but I can't remember which ones. If anyone has access to an AR, would you mind checking that for me? I know there are a few moves that get that title.

 

[S P I K E]

At least this argument isn't as hostile as it was before. =P You actually seem nice now, and a little more open than before. I appreciate that Zombie.

 

[Iced_1992]

@First Post: They can't possibly take it out. It would ruin the game physics. They can take out L-Cancelling though. And since they claimed that the speed of playing in Brawl would be slower in contrast with that in Melee, that would be quite possible...

 

[bbb]

They can take out L-Cancelling though.

They take out L-Cancelling and I will kill someone, seriously.

 

[Zombie Cola]

@First Post: They can't possibly take it out. It would ruin the game physics. They can take out L-Cancelling though. And since they claimed that the speed of playing in Brawl would be slower in contrast with that in Melee, that would be quite possible...

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. Come on, please. Read the debate by Spike and I. How would it "ruin" the game physics? We had a logical debate on world physics v.s. physics engines that was backed by logical fact and formal training abd you come in here claiming stuff like that. All I'm saying is that if you care going to claim something, especially after what Spike and I said, you need to provide evidence. I Hereby decree that any and all claims of what wavedashing is, exploit, or pre-programmed move. Claims of knowledge on physics, be it real world or simulated. And claims of Nintnedo or Sakurai saying this, that, or the other must be backed with concrete evidence.

 

[hue_jass]

cheat, exploit bug what ever. The fact of the matter is that the game has remained relatively balanced and fun through out all the levels of meta-game (save for a few glitches). I'm confident that the new development team is well aware of most of the meta-game that players do , and in the translation post sakurai mentioned "balance" being important. That being said what stays or goes might be an issue of balance, for instance luigi without wave dashes would certianly fall quite a few spots on the current tier list, and although it wouldn't kill samus taking out missile cancels would certianly lessen her game.

now here's where it really breaks down, The current meta-game that pro's play is far removed from the game that average players play, balancing or nerfing "pro techniques" can have an adverse affect and unbalance the general game. Where as having a balanced general game, can make for broken or unbalanced pro game (ala fox IMO) this is what hapapned to Soul caliber 3 btw. in which the game was better in some aspects on the general level but left huge broken holes in the pro game.

With a smart and dedicated team you could probably and hopefully get a fun and balanced game on both levels(which SSBM does a good job of), for instance adjusting friction and WD speed, adjusting L-cancelling, allowing all characters to do these moves in a balanced way etc. But if you think about it, total pro and tourney players are a tiny tiny fraction of the playing pool for this game so to cater this game to the pro players or even spend the extra time balancing the meta game probably isn't in the best interest especially if it deters from the balance of the general game.

in total my logical conclusion is that brawl will be more "balanced" but that might mean some game mechanics changed, flaws and exploits cleanaed up and tightened and might destroy some of the current meta game.

my hopeful conclusion is that the team will do a wonderful job in making both a balanced and fun general game along with adjusting balancing and tightening up all the meta game elements, including standardizing WDing and L-cancelling, parsing exploits and fixing or nurfing broken and unbalanced moves. Thus having a more standardized and fair balance of high level moves as opposed to the current hodge podge of "glitches" that happen to assemble into a good pro game (still unbalanced)

It's a hard balancing act and i don't know the developers intents or goals for the next game but i have absolute confidence that it will be an extremely fun game for the general populous,. whether that means altering, removing, balancing or breaking the pro game has yet to be seen in any form.

yuour thoughts

 

[MetaKnight0]

I'm still of the opinion that wavedashing is not a glitch. Perhaps a real-time engine cannot apply these calculutions to a rigid body, but it's certainly something that can be applied to projectiles.

Character behaviour when being sent flying is much like a projectile. There is an acceleration at the beginning, a velocity, distance, time, and a deceleration that ends up happening (with Sandbag no deceleration happens, with characters you can exert a force by pushing control stick or the initial force deteriorates). Yes, there are many things that are different from real physics, but the BASICS are there.

An airdodge can send you off like a projectile, and all the basics of what dictates projectile is still there. Yes, you can exert a random force or you can pull a double jump or whatever, but the basics that govern how a projectile would move is still there.

Honestly, if someone can grab the measurements necessary (velocity, acceleration), you could probably predict displacement of the wavedash.

And no, I don't have an AP Physics or amazing Programming course under my belt, yet it seems odd to pass it off as a glitch when the mechanics can be explained by something you learn in the second unit of my 12 Physics = /

 

[Zombie Cola]

I'm still of the opinion that wavedashing is not a glitch. Perhaps a real-time engine cannot apply these calculutions to a rigid body, but it's certainly something that can be applied to projectiles.

Character behaviour when being sent flying is much like a projectile. There is an acceleration at the beginning, a velocity, distance, time, and a deceleration that ends up happening (with Sandbag no deceleration happens, with characters you can exert a force by pushing control stick or the initial force deteriorates). Yes, there are many things that are different from real physics, but the BASICS are there.

An airdodge can send you off like a projectile, and all the basics of what dictates projectile is still there. Yes, you can exert a random force or you can pull a double jump or whatever, but the basics that govern how a projectile would move is still there.

Honestly, if someone can grab the measurements necessary (velocity, acceleration), you could probably predict displacement of the wavedash.

And no, I don't have an AP Physics or amazing Programming course under my belt, yet it seems odd to pass it off as a glitch when the mechanics can be explained by something you learn in the second unit of my 12 Physics = /

Are you arguing with me? I never said it was a glitch, it's an exploit. Anyone that thinks it's a glitch is sadly mistaken..... if I did at some point say "glitch" then I apologize as I have always said this is a m4d spl0it......

 

[Lit]

god **** it is never that serious on typing that much anyways yeah wavedashing should be in brawls since he makers of ssbm but wding in the game to c wat people can do with it. wd changes the whole game play and the movement of any character. like bower without wding he would be slow and usless but wding makes him alot more quicker and moblie around the stage.

 

[Zombie Cola]

god **** it is never that serious on typing that much anyways yeah wavedashing should be in brawls since he makers of ssbm but wding in the game to c wat people can do with it. wd changes the whole game play and the movement of any character. like bower without wding he would be slow and usless but wding makes him alot more quicker and moblie around the stage.