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Watching Little Boys: A Lucas Video Thread

Scraket

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Neon's still awesome with the character, it's just that nerfs in PM are "oh this character / move is really good? Let's nerf it by slowing it down"


I bash on PF's Lucas only because I know the potential he has, but doesn't attain the higher levels with the character. He misses a lot of basic stuff and doesn't do everything to the best of the character's ability that I feel PF could do. There's little nuances about his gameplay that just irk me, such as not fully spacing Bairs to get the sweetspot, not doing the most optimal followups- he'll do 4 Dairs in a row rather than use a Uair/Utilt and get a better combo / damage output. The main reasons that PF loses are because his opponents know the Lucas MU, how to properly DI/SDI the characters moves, and not get super gimmicked. And he doesn't really practice outside of tournaments. So that doesn't help much...

He's a high-level player using a character with lots of potential doing mid-level play until his last stock.
PF's Lucas is different but its still effective. he may not be as technical as Neon's (because like no one is) but he still makes it work. His Lucas is solidly my 2nd favorite to watch, not oracle, narq, kip, etc.
Also im gonna have to disagree with the comment about him using midlevel play as a high level player. If anything its the opposite. He doesn't exactly have the fundamentals that top level players have but he was able to place at nationals due to solid Lucas play. On thing that I've noticed about his Lucas compared to others' is that he doesn't throw out unnecessary attacks. Just about every attack he throws out hits the opponent while lots of us other Lucas players throw out all kinds of moves and tech to get the hits in.
 
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20PK

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@ Squ0ldrive Squ0ldrive

Keep in mind I'm probably only marginally better than you so any advice I give take it with a grain of salt. I still don't really have fundamentals down, although I'm getting the hang of things (maybe). For reference I only really got into smash after watching the smash doco in January, and only seriously considered wanting to gitgud sometime last month. I think it's helpful for my own place to sit down and think analytically about things like this, which I haven't done much before and I probs should start doing more. A lot of these things I reason about and make sense on paper, but in the in-the-moment-ness of a match I get too caught up in the flow and things just go so fast, so I keep making stupid mistakes. I guess just doing more analysis like this will hopefully eventually ingrain the sort of good things to do and bad things not to do in our reflexes to the point where we just do good things automatically. And I'm pretty sure nothing I'm going to say here is new.

The biggest specific problem, or at least the one that sticks out like a sore thumb, is that you were throwing out way too many up smashes and dash attacks.

The aim of the game is to hit your opponent and not get hit right? Up-smashes hit your opponent hard, sure, but they only really are most effective on higher percentages. Moreover, up-smashes are very easy to punish because after you perform it there's a large space between when you've finished the animation and when you can begin the next attack, meaning your opponent can hit you. But you want to avoid being hit. Up-smash at higher percentages not only can be used as a kill move, but ensures it's 'safe', because higher percents cause higher knock-back, meaning your opponent won't be able to punish you as fast. So you should really only use it as a combo finisher. DAir -> up-smash is probs the easiest Lucas combo to do, so today in friendlies I was doing way too many DAir -> up-smash combo spams on lower percentages and it wasn't working at all. It could work as a mix-up I guess, or if you have OU it's pretty good to string some along at low percentages since OU'd Upsmash has increased hitstun, but at that much of a low percent 0-50%ish, it's probably still too much of a commitment.

Also, better to start on the L-Cancel grind sooner than later - it's easier than Melee in PM because you flash white if performing it correctly (that is, pressing L/R however many frames it is after performing an aerial (so not any air attacks like SH PKFs, just aerials) to speed up landing lag, more effectively stringing along combos, making you faster in general). I find this pretty easy to perform in training mode and I'll just sit there L-cancelling and DJCing my moves for like half an hour, but it's really really hard when it comes to implementing it into actual gameplay, where I usually get around 10%-30%. But I suppose the best way to get more consistent is practice. DJCs will also help, though they're a lot harder to get into so don't worry about it for now i'd say.

You need to be faster overall - sometimes it just seems like you were standing around. Any time you're standing around doing nothing means you're just waiting, begging to be hit. Don't fall into the trap of just playing on autopilot and mashing buttons though because that's just as bad.

Only throw out grabs if you're sure they're going to hit. Lucas' grab is very easy to punish since it's slow af, so use it sparingly and only when you're sure there's not gonna be a hard punish on it. Up-throw only kills past ~130% (don't quote me on that, other peeps provided the accurate numbers somewhere else imma just do it from memory), down-throw's pretty good for comboing most of the cast, except for fast-fallers where you can chain-grab up-throw them on low percentages.

Tech when you hit the ground - press L however many frames after you get knocked down to get up immediately, meaning you'll be able to throw out an attack faster so as to not be hit. This is pretty tricky to do ultra-consistently, but easy compared to other advanced tech in the game. I still have trouble with teching everything because I suck lol.

Recovering with Lucas, you want to use magnet really quickly to stall, air-dodge if necessary and then rope snake (tether grab) to the ledge. Play around and get the timing of air-dodge -> rope snake down. Play around and see the distance/angle of your rope snake. If you double jump on your way to to grab ledge, remember that you can save your second jump as a mix-up, otherwise your recovery becomes predictable. PK thunder only at ranges where the rope-snake won't reach, and if you do make sure you sweet-spot to grab the ledge (this also requires some playing around with it).

First vid 7:03 - What would have countered Toon Link's Up B better?
Magnet wasn't a good option because TL was obviously entering the spin attack animation to recover, which is going to hit you (magnet doesn't offer any special magical protection or anything - it's just a hitbox). You could have WD'd backwards and magneted instead (throwing out a magnet and then WDing backwards is apparently a good way to approach), but that wouldn't have really ledgeguarded TL. IDK really how to safely ledgeguard that move to keep TL offstage - I suppose just wait until the animation's over to punish, since the move has a fair amount of cooldown you should be able to throw some attack in like a throw or something, idk.

Work on your follow-ups. If you get a hit your enemy goes into knock-down/back/hitstun. Capitalize on this to hit your enemy again. Comboing doesn't just look cool but is good because it's actually going to help you win. So don't just do an attack and leave it at that, make sure you follow up. The details of exactly how to follow up some things are what I still have trouble with. For example, with moves with large knock-back I find it hard to follow the opponent to follow-up on the attack. Now if it's vertically high sometimes you could use your double-jump to chase them into the air, but this is also kinda risky. DJCing is also useful just for alternating from one move to the next to make your combo really fast.
 

D e l t a

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http://youtu.be/Vw31SsdKamU

3:56 he has 3 opportunities to get a combo started or finish off the stock:
Dash atk - perfect height for a free followup
Bair - missed L cancel but still was in a good position
Fox off ledge, grab ledge and use rising aerial (Dair would do well, Bair if you had good timing). Also missed 2 Ftilts here

4:02 does a full hop and allows enemy to get on stage for free

6:50 keeps trying to force his way in and stays closer to ledge than center stage. Lands on top of Fox

==

It's the little things like this that make me say he is a top player doing midlevel stuff. He has fantastic spacing and good awareness as well as adaptability, but isn't great at application or followups. Also is bad at ledge guarding and high level pressure. He could be better, he's just not.
 

D e l t a

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@ Squ0ldrive Squ0ldrive Apologies on the later response. Without further ado—

Some Questions
1. What are my bad habits?

A bit hard to answer in general. I will be describing attributes of playstyle that I feel you may pick up on what you consistently do wrong from my comments, aside from those previously mentioned: dash attacks, upsmash / random smashes. Let me know if you feel there may be more bad habits than those already mentioned and from what I have written below.

2. What videos should I call my best and worst?

I'll answer this later if you truly would like to know. It's nice to show your best and worst, but at the same time, recognize the fact that you will constantly be improving. For now, don't get stuck on "what was my best / worst performance?" Think more in terms of "where was I most consistent in showing my average skill level and how can I improve my average performance?" There are many players that can do wonderfully one day taking top 8, and other days not even make it out of pools (a bit of an exaggeration).

Aim to be consistent and strive to always improve.

3. How do I get the magnet in on someone?

You're trying to replicate the uses of magnet on enemies that you may have seen in many top level play. Focus on learning the standard magnet -> WD back timings before going for anything fancy.

In order of learning these timings, this is roughly the way I went about learning how to utilize magnet:

First, learn the timings of standing magnet -> wavedash / aerial attack. Then try it on an enemy with the added timings to account for hitlag.

Next comes short hop timings:
  • SH -> immediate mag - this will be crucial in learning how approach with magnet. SH mag -> aerial / WD back are relatively safe approaches and combo starters.
  • Slight delay in timing before magnet after SH. Magnet around the apex of your short hop. The one I recommend learning before any of the other SH -> mag variants. Easiest for your skill level and the one I use most.
  • Short hop -> hold mag until at ground. Great for mixups on shield when creating shield pressure. Also allows for using another magnet after hitting ground. From the grounded magnet, you can WD back or use a DJC aerial. This is among the harder uses of magnet. I recommend learning later. I'm still working towards perfecting this.
After you learn these, practice run up -> short hop magnet, then learn run up -> grounded magnet.

I personally learned SH aerial magnets before grounded. The timing is easier than grounded mags as momentum carries into your jump, so you can do inputs with a little more lax than running grounded magnet.

4. What do I need to work on the most?

Approaching / neutral game is the biggest thing for Lucas. Combos are easy and learning to combo the entire cast doesn't take that much work. All his combos are primarily intuitive after a while.

I recommend checking out the approach section in the Lucas guide again and comparing this to your approaches. Another thing is to see how Neon / Kip approach as Lucas. Take note of what works and when. PKF isn't always guaranteed to work as an approach, and it only works at certain distances. Finding openings in an enemy's playstyle is something that comes with practice and experience.

Use more PKF, but not too much. Over-abusing PKF can be as bad as Falco attempting to spam SHFFL(asers). Know how to create space for yourself and deal with pressure.
Practice your Out of Shield game and see what works and when. The beginning few months as Lucas are the most fun and also some of the hardest.

5. What should be the first thing I should change about my Lucas?

Your approach most definitely. Hit the lab, review your videos, study top players. Compare all 3 from your in-game experience, to seeing it recorded, to watching how top players would approach a situation.

I would like any advice you can give me too!

~More to come soon~
 

Kipcom

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His Lucas is solidly my 2nd favorite to watch, not oracle, narq, kip, etc.
muh feels

Nah jk, I know I have tons of stuff I need to improve on and I'm definitely trying to work on them. Even after an entire year of playing this character, I know the potential is still there for me. :p

As long as I'm still playing, I might as well aim for that #1 Lucas status, though there's a lot of slack I need to pick up on.
 

Scraket

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muh feels

Nah jk, I know I have tons of stuff I need to improve on and I'm definitely trying to work on them. Even after an entire year of playing this character, I know the potential is still there for me. :p

As long as I'm still playing, I might as well aim for that #1 Lucas status, though there's a lot of slack I need to pick up on.
Well said dude! Cant wait to see you improve even more (and do some flashy footstool stuff lol) :b:
 

D e l t a

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muh feels

Nah jk, I know I have tons of stuff I need to improve on and I'm definitely trying to work on them. Even after an entire year of playing this character, I know the potential is still there for me. :p

As long as I'm still playing, I might as well aim for that #1 Lucas status, though there's a lot of slack I need to pick up on.
Not as long as I don't beat you to that spot first!! I now have motivation for this game- take #1 spot as Lucas before Kipcom :smash:

(and do some flashy footstool stuff lol) :b:
I'm already implementing footstools into my gameplay. Guess I'm one step ahead of Kipcom. STEP IT UP BRO :chuckle:
 

Kipcom

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pffffft I've been footstooling since 3.0 (especially on shields. It was quite BM).
 

Kipcom

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footstool on shield -> djc bair was quite flashy :smirk:

God I miss it so much. It was such a good mixup...and it KILLED. Sad to see such a fun feature gone.
 

D e l t a

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3.02 was the most fun version I'd played to date. Any iteration they release past 3.5 better not include stupid nerfs or else I might just flat out quit. 3.02 was techy, flashy, and pretty fast overall. If they only had touched recoveries FIRST and seen how the metagame reacted from there, I feel 3.whatever could've been something way better than 3.5

footstool -> Bair still works and I've gotten a few kills with it in 3.5 Understandably it doesn't work on shield, but that was a dumb anti-shield option. Lucas had it really easy: magnet -> jump -> footstool was one of the most safe things I can think of

ALSO I WANT 3.02 FAIR BACK. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST ANNOYING NERFS........
 

Kipcom

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What are footstools? :pichumelee:
Footstooling is a technique that was added to Brawl, in which if you jumped when you were over your opponent's head, you would jump on top of their head. If the opponent is airborne when you footstool, then they get stuck in a falling animation for a bit. To footstool in PM, they mapped footstooling to the taunt button, so that you don't actually footstool someone by mistake whne pressing jump (which is honestly a much better design choice than how Sakurai makes it).

If you need an example for further clarification, check out this beautiful combo by Sethlon. You'll notice what the footstool is when you see it.

https://gfycat.com/PowerlessScholarlyAmericankestrel
 

Sur Fartsalot

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The problem is with PM 3.5 footstools can't be activated on shields, so it's less effective. Implementing footstools takes a lot of time and effort, and should only be learned after learning basic techniques.
 

NeonApophis

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So anyone know what sort of hot drama happened with Neon in their scene to make everyone apparently hate him?
Heysuess just trolls me on commentary. And I'm sort of the scene villain just because I was pretty dominant with my broken Lucas back in 3.02.

Also, here are some more Smash Pad 4 videos that haven't been posted yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJEjRd1UjKE (WF)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZm61EH9iVY (GF)

Winner's bracket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_SHZZnu1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coahSH5cHbk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CgntcX2rv0
 

D e l t a

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Whoo! Neon's back on the boards :D

How do you deal with Fire Emblem sword characters and heavy projectile characters like Link?
 

NeonApophis

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I don't find any of the FE characters particularly difficult. You just have to either force them to shield with pkf, or make them whiff an attack through good DDing or other movement, like approaching aerial magnet to waveland back, which often baits out an attack. They have a lot of trouble controlling space against Lucas since they don't have a projectile, and Lucas doesn't really have to be vulnerable while approaching and doing shield pressure. Plus their oos options aren't really that great, since Lucas can easily avoid getting grabbed as long as you are disciplined in your pressure. My WF and GF matches against Heysuess show this sort of playstyle, since you have to do pretty much the same thing against Dedede.

I deal with Link by picking Wolf. Link is just particularly problematic for Lucas since boomerang is really good at controlling space, and Lucas doesn't have a sex kick to just clank and hit Link through the boomerang. The combination of good projectiles and a big disjoint makes it hard for Lucas to get in. And Link's combos are really good against Lucas, so his conversions are pretty strong. The way to win is to deal with boomerang effectively by hitting it or shielding and then following up with a wd forward oos, or powershielding it, but these things don't really put you at a big advantage; they just let you defend against Link's neutral game pressure. Once you get in and start a combo it's obviously fine, since Lucas can combo everyone to death, but getting it in is pretty hard to do given Lucas's tools.
 
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D e l t a

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Against FE, specifically Roy & Marth, they can clang the projectile and have advantage frame wise since Lucas will still be in end lag of PKF and their jab / side B will cancel out. I've taught many Marth/Roy players this to help them improve; however, I don't know a specific counter. What should I do to a patient player and how should I deal with approaching now since they can wall through my projectile, then easily attack me after that?

Against Link, after boomerang is thrown out, if I perfect shield & reflect it at him, his natural shield in design just bounces off him or I can Fair / PKF thru the projectile. The only problem being that Link can use tilts / smash attacks / UpB / grab safely after boomerang if he reads my approach. I've attempted to WD OoS the exact moment after I perfect shield the boomerang and punish, but grab is too slow and it seems that UpB & Upsmash cover the other two aerial attack approaches I have. Trying to stay shielded to block these results in getting grabbed. Otherwise it's back to me constantly hitting / shielding the boomerang until I mess up and it hits or Link unsafely approaches. I used to use magnet pull and cross up Link players the second they use boomerang so that I'm behind Link and I only deal with Link head on.

I think the real question I'm getting at is: how should I approach opponents that mitigate PKF?
I've studied yours and other Lucas player's vids countless times and I still don't believe I have a clear solution. I was wondering what your input is on this. Safe pressure after anybody shields is no big deal for me. It's the attacks they throw out afterwards that can be problematic. I'm fine with my punish game and being able to start massive combos on any character, especially Link and Marth/Roy. It's being able to get in and find the opening for that first hit.

Also, @heysuess should know that D3 can WD OoS -> Ftilt, Dtilt, or SideB to safely stop Lucas from approaching with another magnet or PKF instead of rolling away or trying to shield grab.
 

NeonApophis

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In 3.5 it is much easier to do the extended pkf, where you land on the frame it comes out so that you get the grounded projectile, which travels farther and more quickly. This lets you camp FE characters more easily since you can stay well out of their range.

You can also approach without pkf by dash dancing and moving in and out of their range by approaching with aerial magnet and retreating with an aerial or waveland. If your pressure is actually safe they shouldn't be able to hit you with attacks at any point during it.
 

D e l t a

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In 3.5 it is much easier to do the extended pkf, where you land on the frame it comes out so that you get the grounded projectile, which travels farther and more quickly. This lets you camp FE characters more easily since you can stay well out of their range.

You can also approach without pkf by dash dancing and moving in and out of their range by approaching with aerial magnet and retreating with an aerial or waveland. If your pressure is actually safe they shouldn't be able to hit you with attacks at any point during it.
Alright. I'll see how it goes camping out these chars and out spacing them more.
 

20PK

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So my gameplay vids are up finally. I've b een told by better players that I've improved a little since these were taken, and I did play absolute ass in most of these due to tiredness (hence random SDs everywhere). But I think the root problems are probably still in my gameplay. So I have a broad idea on what I need to work on:
-having total control of the character and not flubbing even non-tech skill inputs and SDing all the time; doing every input intentionally (this is kinda a broad thing I guess that covers or intersects with all of the other points)
-DI
-teching everything
-not rolling; spotdodging consistently (I find the input kind of tricky to do for some reason) and wavedashing back
-Short-hopping more instead of flubbing it and accidentally doing a full-hop
-Not flubbing shDJCs and instead doing rising aerials
-Actually using shDJCs to combo instead of randomly throwing them out and failing
-Follow ups/combos, especially follow ups off magnets (i.e. magnet into djc aerials etc.) which I probably use too much ineffectively because of the absent follow ups
-Punishing everything (sorta ties iin with combos/follow ups point)
-ledgeguarding
-air dodge rope-snake recovering instead of pkt
-not wiffing grabs (jump cancelling grabbing might help this?)
-spaming less PKF in neutral and do other stuff instead (use more nooches, approach with magnet then wavedash back), or if I do go down the projectile PKF camp option make sure all of them are consistently DJC'd
-using Utilt (albeit I find this hard to do in terms of inputs since i need tap to jump on for DJC FAirs) UAir and FAir more (I hardly ever pull out these moves for some reason)
-spacing/dashdancing/winning neutral/etc.
-L-cancelling to around 50-80/90% instead of 0-30%
-learning how to dacus

Any specific advice w/ timestamps referring to the vid the footage is from on what I should have done in a specific scenario is very much appreciated. I'm good at knowing this kind of 'broad advice' you hear everywhere that I've just listed, but not very good at improving or understanding any microsituation specifically (which are what recordings are good for I guess since you can pause etc.!)

Reminder that I'm 20PK in all of them, incl. this Lucas ditto

I played a good set I think against this DK, although he's not that great of a player and I lost anyway ;_;

And this guy is my main training partner, he usually beats me every time so matchup tips/what I'm doing wrong specifically or any habits I could take advantage of appreciated.
edit: woops just realized this set had way too many sds to constructively critique :p

More sets (just didn't want to clog up the thread by embedding all of them. Also some sets are just the Marth vs Lucario, but just skip through the video until you see a Lucas). More are gonna be uploaded later I think, idk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN7y5Z79O3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgQJ1hpL1qc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4fTrnLcj5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCDqxhXbJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsMRYtY3Up4
 
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Scraket

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Well you seem to have a decent idea of what to work on. If I were you I would focus more on grinding out basic techs like L-canceling before moving on to stuff like DJC's. Even without DJC's Lucas can combo(though not to the same level) with his aerials. definitely use more Uair and Fair. I actually dont use Utilt much (if ever) but it can be used in situations where you would preferably want to use a low DJC Uair (like Dair to Dair to DJC Uair to set up a juggle). You use a lot of short hopped pk freeze, instead of djc pk freeze. Short hopped pkf is slower, more punishable, and it goes right over some of the shorter characters. Your KO setups also need some work. I see you go for Dthrow to Upsmash a lot, which works for some(not that many) characters at kill percent only if they dont DI the Dthrow. Lucas has a cool DI mixup by the ledge where if his back is to the ledge, he can Dthrow into a Bair spike or KO off of the sides or top if they hold in to not die from the back throw. If they DI away the Dthrow the back throw mixup can potentially kill them or setup an edgeguard. Like at 1:10 in the 2nd video you couldve tried the Dthrow Bair instead of the Dthrow Upsmash. I'm not really the best with words but I hope this helps! Im sure @ D e l t a D e l t a will be able to give some good advice.
 
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20PK

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Haha yeah, I went for way too many downthrow->up-smashes in that set against DK, lookin' like @ Squ0ldrive Squ0ldrive there. I'll really only reserve up-smashes now for the situations they'll be really useful/kill instead of being desperate. I think the situation where I can be a bit liberal with my up-smashes is when I've got offence up. In the second vid at 3:01-02 it works I think for instance. Although at the same time I'd only want to still throw out the OU upthrows when I can confirm, otherwise I lose the charge.

And yeah I'll work on just plain L-cancelling a lot.

My short hopped PKFs are actually supposed to be DJC PKFs - I do it with my double-jump on the L-trigger and it's really the only way I can do it. Since then I've discovered that having horizontal momentum via running or something actually helps DJC the PKFs easier. But yeah I'll work on the timing for that a lot more too so I'm pulling them off every single time.

Dthrow into BAir I've seen done so many times, IDK why I just haven't implemented it into my playing! Thanks for pointing out that option I'll go for some of those in my friendlies tonight.
 

Squ0ldrive

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Haha yeah, I went for way too many downthrow->up-smashes in that set against DK, lookin' like @ Squ0ldrive Squ0ldrive there. I'll really only reserve up-smashes now for the situations they'll be really useful/kill instead of being desperate. I think the situation where I can be a bit liberal with my up-smashes is when I've got offence up.
:p

Sometimes I wonder if I could ever do that tirple decker OU up smash in tourament.
 

D e l t a

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Haven't watched yet, been too caught up with other stuff. Just adding my 2¢ in here...

I typically use Dthrow -> OU Upsmash -> no DI / full DI behind Lucas (DACUS followup)
  • For killing on floaties around 60%, midweights around 80%, heavies around 110%.
    • Fast fallers like Falcon & Spacies I will use Fsmash most likely bc they die off the sides & Upsmash may take too long to connect
  • If I'm near the end of my stock life (over 100-120% where most trades / CC attacks will kill me). I take the guaranteed 20-30% rather than try for a combo that I may or may not get more % off
    • For example, Yoshi can armor thru combos at low % and get a Nair kill on me and Peach escapes combos easy and can do the same
  • If my opponent likes to jump after getting hit (general low to mid-level response), I will OU Upsmash, follow their landing and Upsmash again. Repeat a third time if possible and they should be dead at this point (accumulated roughly 70-80% around now, which makes their total % at least in the 100's).
  • I only Upsmash past 30-40% on most characters unless I'm at high % as mentioned above. The risk reward below this % is too low for me as the enemy can fast fall after getting hit and have enough time to punish or put me in a bad position
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Also, I've landed 3 up smashes in a row on a single enemy's stock multiple times, and I must say it's pretty satisfying. You can look them in the eye and be like "You suck a$$. Get better." Not really, but it's what I'm thinking every time.

Triple OU Upsmash somehow works on Spacies at certain % and if they don't have a jump it's even better. I've gotten double OU Upsmash on Spacies countless times and just barely missed the third one
 

Scraket

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
632
Location
NorCal
Dthrow up smash seems so situational to me(it also feels downright dirty :p). It feels like unless they're fast fallers they can jump out of a noncharged up smash (at kill percent I mean). But yeah dthrow to OU upsmash is a good way to KO with some bad Dthrow DI and rack up damage at low percent(or you be a real man and try and 0-death them). Just a tip that for the Dthrow to Bair on floatier characters, you might have to double jump and do a rising Bair to get the hit (depending on the percent of course).
 
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Kipcom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
409
Location
Georgia
NNID
Kipcom
3DS FC
4725-7977-1418
In 3.5 it is much easier to do the extended pkf, where you land on the frame it comes out so that you get the grounded projectile, which travels farther and more quickly. This lets you camp FE characters more easily since you can stay well out of their range.

You can also approach without pkf by dash dancing and moving in and out of their range by approaching with aerial magnet and retreating with an aerial or waveland. If your pressure is actually safe they shouldn't be able to hit you with attacks at any point during it.
What changes to 3.5 made it easier? I'm curious.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
1,038
Location
Michigan
Dthrow up smash seems so situational to me(it also feels downright dirty :p). It feels like unless they're fast fallers they can jump out of a noncharged up smash (at kill percent I mean). But yeah dthrow to OU upsmash is a good way to KO with some bad Dthrow DI and rack up damage at low percent(or you be a real man and try and 0-death them). Just a tip that for the Dthrow to Bair on floatier characters, you might have to double jump and do a rising Bair to get the hit (depending on the percent of course).
The way I figure (especially in 3.5), is that an enemy will die to OU Upsmash from a certain % up to the point where Upthrow will kill instead. Don't feel dirty about it, feel great. It's such a satisfying explosion and a massive damage output (33% give or take for Dthrow -> Upsmash).
 

Scenic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
3
Location
St. Louis, MO
Hey lucas bros! I'm a long time lurker of smashboards and reddit, and I finally have a few videos to share with you guys. My smash tag is Scenic and I've only been playing smash in general since PM 3.0 came out so like a year and some change now. I would really appreciate any feedback you guys have for me. I already know alot of the things I need to work on. I need to work on the neutral game and fundamentals to get my tech skill 100% I def like to spam tech skill and I get punished for it too much. Also I need to get better at using grabs, especially pivot grabs. I do think I have come a long way in a year though. Also if anyone has any suggestions on tourney nerves, I just plain suck when I get to a tournament. I make terrible decisions and flub tech waaaaay more. I know it just comes with practice though.

The first 3 videos are against a snake player and then the last 2 are against a wario player. I'm not looking for people to watch them all but I decided to put them if people just want to see more. Thanks in advance!





 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
1,038
Location
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Gonna be watching all the Lucas vids from you & others. In the meantime, what I can offer as advice for nerves is to play tons of friendlies and just get used to playing. You get nervous because you think you'll mess up, that your tech isn't perfect and could cost the match, there's way better players, etc. stay calm and do everything that you know you can. Tourneys are the time to be consistent
 

Sur Fartsalot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
181
Location
The Round Table
So from watching one video, I see you've got the basics down, which is good. Your movement is pretty good, but it seems like you have trouble of setting combos. Also, you sometimes have trouble finishing an opponent sometimes. A couple times, a well-timed up-smash or even forward smash could have finished him, but you went for the aerial finisher. Most of your aerials are good, but try to mix it up with some Nairs, Uairs, or aerial grabs when you land (better range than magnet). Nair can be good as a close approach option and is pretty safe on shield. Uairs can be used for juggling, and aerial grabs have great range and low lag. Other than that you have a great Lucas! Practice a bit more, and I would say you be a fearsome contender for tournaments! :bee:

P.S. When I have more time I'll look at them more throughly, but for now you seem pretty well off. If I find anything else I post some more. Good luck!
 

Eisen

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
662
Location
Planet Tallon IV
NNID
AndroidPolaris
So, I'm uploading things on mid-level(ish?) Lucas play and just how much crap this character can do. I've recorded over an hour so far, but if you don't mind boring voices go right ahead. I'd say people like Neon may not need it as much (idk what he knows or doesn't know), but folks looking for help who are confused or feel like 3.5 Lucas is bad could benefit from this.

I explain why his 3.5 "nerfs" weren't really that nerfy, and some unused possibilities I don't see utilized, plus stuff I didn't know about for a while and want other people to see. Overall I just want this character to succeed so people can stop calling us frauds because of 3.02

Currently uploading the second video, so if you can't see it yet, just give it some time.

Anyone want me to keep doing things like this?
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
1,038
Location
Michigan
folks looking for help who are confused or feel like 3.5 Lucas is bad could benefit from this.

I explain why his 3.5 "nerfs" weren't really that nerfy, and some unused possibilities I don't see utilized, plus stuff I didn't know about for a while and want other people to see. Overall I just want this character to succeed so people can stop calling us frauds because of 3.02

Anyone want me to keep doing things like this?
I think that anybody who provides content in an insightful way and is pushing to help advance Lucas' metagame should always continue doing so. The more videos available, the better.

==

I agree with the drive to push Lucas towards a high level. "3.02 Lucas carried so many people so therefore 3.5 Lucas mains are frauds." It's funny that people think this way considering there were only 5 reputable top Lucas players I know of, and maybe 5-10 others. Neon won thru high level tech skill and amazing Hax-esque pressure and mixups, Pink Fresh won thru solid fundamentals, and then Narq, Plasma, and a few others simply had a good combination of fundamentals and tech skill.

Lucas discussion stuff aside, I am always searching for Lucas players to analyze, whether I give them advice or simply critique them in my head. I'll look at the most basic, low level players from round 1 all the way to consistent high level players that place top 5 or better every week.

So please, continue to upload videos. I'll be checking them out in spare time. Let me know if you ever want them analyzed and what you're looking to improve. @ Squ0ldrive Squ0ldrive 's post earlier gives a nice template of questions to ask.
 
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