Watching Little Boys: A Lucas Video Thread

[Master WGS]

Nice! In case you also include misc. videos that aren't matches, here's a DJC tutorial video I made.

Yeah, that's a ton of useful information, so I'll definitely add it to the OP. Excellent work!

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Lucas Vs Sonic friendlies for about an hour or so.

 

[Master WGS]

Here are a couple vids of me from a local biweekly, particularly the two in which I lost. I'd like advice on these matchups if at all possible. I'll add the others from the biweekly (as well as these two) to the OP once I'm back from work.

Master WGS (Lucas/Marth) vs Soulpech (Jigglypuff)
Master WGS (Lucas/Diddy) vs OLA (Toon Link)

EDIT: All Lucas vids from that tournament (to my knowledge) have been added to the OP.

 

[Scraket]

Here are some matches from Pink Fresh at Zenith
Pink Fresh (Lucas) vs DarkBlues (Ivysaur)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1K815NVGaY
Pink Fresh (Lucas) vs Ninjalink (Diddy/Roy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0niSL4H0t4

 

[Veishi336]

Hey all it's been a long time since i posted anything on here so here is a little something from this past tourney i went to. I made a whole hell of a lot of progress compared to how i used to be. This was my 4th tournament I've been to and the progression has shown. Enjoy and critique! thanks!^_^

Smash of Ages *******,GA Tourney Matches:

http://www.twitch.tv/alabamasmashleague/b/558784853

- 24:46 Veishi (Lucas) vs Lunchbox (Toonlink)
- 1:10:56 Veishi (Lucas) vs Scatt (Sonic)
- 1:53:43 Veishi (Lucas) vs Gig (Fox)
- 2:56:43 Veishi (Lucas) vs Scatt (Sonic) <-- Friendlies
- 3:57:11 Veishi (Lucas) vs AML (Toonlink)

Got knocked out of the tourney by a Game&watch and a ZSS which weren't featured on stream.
I'd love any comments and constructive criticism.

 

[Kipcom]

Yo, my man Veishi, what's up man? Good stuff at the tournament yesterday.

Do you know if they're uploading them to youtube or not? I'd rather just wait for them to be there instead of posting time stamps on the VOD, but if they won't I'll probably just upload my own matches.

I think I played really well, compared to the videos I've already put up, so I wanna share them with everyone.

 

[Veishi336]

Ayye Kip wassup!! Same to you. I dont think they'll be uploading them to Youtube. They could possibly be doing that but you'd probably have to ask the TO of the tourney.
You did phenomenally seriously. I still need to get my lucas up to that level. Im almost there just need to keep calm and think more.

 

[Kipcom]

Thanks a lot man. You did good yourself, @ Veishi336 . =)

Also, they uploaded the videos to Youtube! May as well post mine here. These are from a tournament both Veishi and I attended this past Saturday.

Kip (Lucas) vs Dry (Falcon, Marth):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=164RX771u0k (This was definitely my best set in the entire tournament and probably one of my best performances overall in that first match. I love this set.)

Kip (Lucas) vs Player-3 (Zero Suit Samus):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_PEJiWuWgY

Kip (Lucas) vs Fatality (Captain Falcon):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjq-DLwb-_c

Kip (Lucas) vs TheReflexWonder (King Dedede):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256SNas4ULA

Check them out guys, especially that first link.

 

[Lukingordex]

I got 2nd in a tournament yesterday, I'd like to know if i really improved from the last time I posted a video here.

Stream 1: http://www.twitch.tv/x_revolution/b/563797626
I appear at:

- 01:15:00 (vs. Sheik)

Stream 2: http://www.twitch.tv/x_revolution/b/563869313
I appear at:

- 01:05:00 (vs. Olimar) (ignore the second match where I used Kirby)
- 01:42:00 (Vs Pit and Snake)
- 02:20:00 (Vs Olimar)
- 02:40:00 (Vs. Pit)

 

[Ya Boy GP]

If anyone is still on this forum, care to critique my Lucas?

Me vs. Emukiller

I learned a little bit about the matchup after this set.
uthrow kills way earlier than I thought it does.
I can combo mewtwo much better now.

 

[Eisen]

http://www.twitch.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=574994822&t=7373s

Set between myself and Stingers (ZSS). 2:02:30 if the timestamp doesn't work.

I'd like some feedback on this video, though I'm already aware of a few problems:

- The set was 6 stocks because each match was set to 3 stocks due to time constraints
- My combo game was sub-optimal, and I didn't commit enough when my opponent was in a bad position
- I tried to go ham and lost a stock for it
- My approaches were predictable, too much pkf and not enough fair/nair/dair/dash attack/etc
- My ledge game was bad; I did a poor job of getting back on stage/mixing up my recoveries
- I wasn't cautious of many of ZSS' tools, especially bair
- tourney nerves (E.g. the f-throw instead of u-throw and PKT randomly)

Anything else? I'm really starting to enjoy how my Lucas is shaping up offensively; I'm really beginning to feel my offensive playstyle develop into something unique.

Edit: Youtube version below.

 

[Eisen]

Sorry to double-post, but here's the Youtube version. I realize sometimes watching Twitch isn't always universally easy. Still would like some feedback if at all possible.

 

[Kipcom]

I have a bit of ZSS experience and I think it's best to not give ZSS space. I feel that if you let her breathe, she'll just shoot out her laser, and she can run pretty quickly for a followup after it fires. It's best not to let her do that, since you can't clank with it, only block or reflect it (or absorb it, but you got punished for that). She can't really grab you OoS as long as your pressure is tight, so tighten your pressure. I see you have the right concept for it and got her out of shield a few times, so that's really good. But yeah, pretty much everything you said was spot on (though I personally don't find dash attack a good approach option. It's really punishable. Maybe as a punish option or edgeguard on certain characters, it's good). When Pink Fresh was giving me critique, he said that full hop nairs aren't that good, since you can't really follow up. So when you get someone on a platform above you, I'd personally do a full hop dair or up air.
As for edeguarding ZSS, I don't think Magnet pull into an aerial when you get to her is worth it. Even if you hit her, if she doesn't die she can just Down B towards the stage again. Try hanging on the ledge and then forcing her to do the ledge jump from her up B. Then ledge jump in sync with her and try to punish with an aerial.

 

[Dron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSvThEF_Eg

in loving remembrance of 3.0

 

[Master WGS]

Nice! I made one, too.

http://youtu.be/lPaUB4Cw0PM


Anyway, I'll probably make any updates I need to the OP and put all current vids into an "Outdated" list once 3.5 drops. I'll try to keep up with this thread again, as I'm sure a patch will bring an influx of videos and discussion.

 

[No U]

So this is just a temporary twitch link but feel free to check me out while it's still up, haven't posted in here in a while but I'm still repping Claus and not quite as scrubbily as in those ancient videos (at least hopefully).


http://www.twitch.tv/gamersabbey/b/589592100

Project M 3.5 side tourney
Winners Finals 5:56:00 RabidJackal (Ganon, D3) vs Space (Lucas)
Losers Finals 6:28:45 RabidJackal (D3) vs J$ (DK)
Grand Finals 6:44:35 J$ (DK) vs Space (Lucas)

I was on stream getting wrecked by an obnoxious Snake in the 3.0 tourney somewhere early (right after doubles) there too and I also played Tsutato in the 3.5 tourney right before those finals matches on stream.

If I hadn't betrayed the kid and gone Mewtwo for the 3.0 tourney then I'd probably have some more relevant (less relevant? more relevant to this particular thread I suppose) footage but unfortunately my Mewtwo is a fraud ;_;

 

[Kipcom]

Jesus why does this forum have to be so dead now. Can we get some more vids + discussion going on.

I'm mad.

 

[PoTheDragonSlayer]

I agree. Neon switches to Wolf, Pinkfresh I believe is focusing on Sm4sh right now.. makes me sad. I've been wanting Lucas gameplay for a while now.

 

[zman804]

Yooooo, I have some footage of 3.5 Neon. It's all doubles though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjp4pK-sJuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp9_J6xj9wg

Also Kipcom wrecking my **** over Netplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzaA9iBOQ6w

 

[Pwii]

http://www.twitch.tv/txkhotsauce/b/614384061?t=1h41m08s

All I have is a twitch link, but while it's still up I have a Lucas ditto vs Keys. Btw this is his first time playing 3.5 Lucas. Fun set. All criticism appreciated.

Spoiler

I think the main reason I won is because Keys wasn't used to 3.5 Lucas. I was messing up on my nair timing so that he got out of nair->dash attack a lot. I should also try implementing sh magnet > djc fair for my approaches, because a lot of times I didn't space it correctly. Also I should follow up magnet with upair more instead of nair.

I agree. Neon switches to Wolf, Pinkfresh I believe is focusing on Sm4sh right now.. makes me sad. I've been wanting Lucas gameplay for a while now.

Where are our Heroes?

 

[20PK]

I agree. Neon switches to Wolf, Pinkfresh I believe is focusing on Sm4sh right now.. makes me sad. I've been wanting Lucas gameplay for a while now.

YOOO Neon's Lucas is back

/watch?v=QWPQPdcra-I
/watch?v=2bLt6PjiZYA
/watch?v=6cWozWzPl2w
/watch?v=0NE3Z_KIIiA

 

[drummaniac28]

Here's a set I had yesterday (I'm on the left). Any comments are appreciated.

www.twitch.tv/fireandicessb/b/621867930?t=2h56m56s

 

[zman804]

YOOO Neon's Lucas is back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWPQPdcra-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bLt6PjiZYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cWozWzPl2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NE3Z_KIIiA

RIP new poster limitations

 

[Pwii]

Here's a set I had yesterday (I'm on the left). Any comments are appreciated.

www.twitch.tv/fireandicessb/b/621867930?t=2h56m56s

I'm not that great, but I'll give you advice. Be less committed in the neutral. More pkf, approach with sh/running magnet. Lucas has a great dashdance, and a great wavedash, so I'd use it more. There were several times when you were pressured in the neutral when you'd just throw out a random grab/fsmash. This was what your opponent was looking for, and you got punished for it.

Also noice backairs. Swagalicious.

 

[zman804]

HF Neon vs Heysuess's DDD.

Ridiculously close set. Let me know what you think of commentary

 

[20PK]

I am still awaiting the year of 20PK. But while we wait, AZPM with some more Lucas love.

also shoutout to "PK Pizza Toss". I'm totally using that now.

 

[20PK]

MEANWHILE AT #SHOTSFIRED

PINK FRESH KILLING IT

Meanwhile on Reddit

 

[D e l t a]

MEANWHILE AT #SHOTSFIRED

https://gfycat.com/PaleBleakDiamondbackrattlesnake

PINK FRESH KILLING IT

Meanwhile on Reddit

YO I SAW THAT MATCH LIVE!! THAT **** WAS HYPE AND IM SO SAD THAT DARK BLUES LOST.

He plays Narq all the time so he knew the MU. Unfortunately he got scared and didn't clutch it out

 

[20PK]

 

[Scraket]

Here's a video of me getting bopped by a Sonic on wifi (erg wish I had a better laptop for netplay cause wifis not pretty). I'd appreciate any advice on the matchup because Sonic is just....weird.

 

[20PK]

Incidentally here's a video of Jamwa's Lucas.

Can't wait for Shotsfired matches to get uploaded tho.

Wow Hyperflame's Lucas is getting really good

 

[D e l t a]

Can't wait for Shotsfired matches to get uploaded tho.

Wow Hyperflame's Lucas is getting really good

I can't wait to see the matches I didn't see live at ShotsFired

Now if only HyperFlame would stop dropping ledge guards...

 

[D e l t a]

Here's a video of me getting bopped by a Sonic on wifi (erg wish I had a better laptop for netplay cause wifis not pretty). I'd appreciate any advice on the matchup because Sonic is just....weird.

******* @Everybody, focus on this statement: "Why am I using these attacks in neutral?" *******

Excuse my lazy comments lol. I'll go back and give this a full look over in the next week.

Overall, your neutral needs a bit of work. You have the right idea throwing out hitboxes and creating pressure, but once you get a hit confirm, you are not as confident with your followups. Knowing exactly how Lucas' moves function and the angle / launch distance the opponent goes is key to playing well. Also, you throw out moves that won't connect at times. Know your spacing and the space you and your opponent control. Sonic can move very fast, but has to commit to a number of approaches and these are generally done in diagonals. This is where anti-air attacks such as Uair and Utilt especially are great at beating out opponents. WD back Ftilt / Fsmash or retreating PKF are other moves I enjoy using to give myself space.

When you whiff an attack, subconsciously you are thinking about either retreating or pressing forward with pressure. Generally, when a player notices the defensive options of an opponent (shield, roll, spot dodge, running back, etc) they will continue throwing out moves and advance toward the opponent still. When you notice you whiffed an attack and the enemy begins advancing toward you, the more common reaction is to get scared and act defensively. **Lucas getting scared / being defensive is something that should not happen.** Similar to spacies, you want to continue pressure or return to neutral. Hiding in shield, despite Lucas' great options OoS, is overall a bad idea. His defensive options are nowhere near as good as his offensive pressure. Vs Sonic, he can close space very fast and has a similar style to Falcon, where they want to bait attacks and punish whiffs. Always stay composed in this MU and never get scared into shield or other poor defensive options.

In the beginning, I noticed you had a nice in and out / "bop and weave" style similar to a boxer. This is nice to open with and get pokes on the opponent, then test their reactions and see how they deal with pressure. Long term in a match/set, you will want to learn how they react and use this knowledge to your advantage. The downside to constantly playing neutral this way is predictability and lack of proper mixups. Unfortunately, it can be hard to escape this pattern and you will eventually start to lose pressure by not maintaining stage control. Your approaches will begin to be read and your attacks will seem choreographed. Learn to dash dance more and bait opponents into approaching you. Furthermore, be comfortable with the space directly around you, and learn to fully control that area without attempting to cover the entire stage. Stage control is about making an opponent to approach you or being able to force the opponent into a corner. Think of the stage as 2-D Sumo Wrestling. Either you control center stage or you're forcing the opponent out of the ring. Running around the place doesn't pressure your opponent anywhere, this only tests their reaction and counters to your approach.

 

[Kipcom]

You guys want more Lucas hype? Kip's here to bring you some god damn Lucas hype.

Kip (Lucas) vs. Hope4NewDay (Snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIXjKz8oPWs

This is pretty much what happens when I play super aggressively and I attempt to style.

 

[D e l t a]

You guys want more Lucas hype? Kip's here to bring you some god damn Lucas hype.

Kip (Lucas) vs. Hope4NewDay (Snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIXjKz8oPWs

This is pretty much what happens when I play super aggressively and I attempt to style.

This is really good. Overall you have a similar playstyle and option coverage to myself. There's a few unique points I enjoyed and I generally like your choices of pressure and the mixups you choose. Tech skill is at a relatively high level and your execution seems to mostly be there. I didn't notice too much sloppy play. You definitely have a lot of potential.

When retreating to neutral for a split second and going back to pressure again, you leave open a bit too much space for the enemy to counter attack. Try being more comfortable with less space to retreat with, and learn quick, defensive options when backing off slightly.

I would suggest playing on smaller stages such as Green Hill Zone, WarioWare, and especially Yoshi's Story and FoD. GHZ & WW allow for learning vertical pressure / controlling air space rather than ground space. I have learned how to cover vertical retreats (Jumping OoS / trying to escape on higher platforms) as well as being aware of when the enemy wants to land, how to cover their landing safely, and how to regain stage control of a small, horiztonal area. These stages are also great for getting many Uair strings in succession while learning how to kill off the sides rather than off the top. These 4 stages, specifically FoD, teach you to use less PKF and control space by abusing different platform heights.


Your followups could use some improvement. Your conversion of pressure attacks to combo strings are still in the phase of 1-2 hits and possibly getting a 3rd hit depending on their DI. When you switch to the combo mindset, try to aim for more sourspot Fairs & Uairs. Nair is useful around 0-60% and over 100% or so for getting combos and sending off stage, respectively. After 60%, Snake can DI away and most likely will receive little to no followups. Around 120%, it can begin killing if you land the strong knockback hitbox.

*Take this advice as you will, it may potentially change your mindset*
When creating pressure on an opponent, always understand how your Attack will send the enemy once you get a hit confirm. At the same time, be aware of how they will react and what they can do to you if you do not have frame tight pressure.

For example, I pressure with Nair / magnet. These moves will send my opponent horiztonally and I am always ready to act immediately and dash toward said direction upon hit confirm.

Against Snake, his weight and fall speed allows for many combos from Lucas. Abuse Uair in this MU as Snake has bad landing options and is easily juggled. First few hits of Snake's Dair will either trade or get beat out by Lucas' Uair, and if spaced correctly can avoid Dair altogether. Nades won't explode from the hit because they are near the middle of Snake's body rather than his lower torso.

 

[Kipcom]

Hmm, something I never really thought about doing was purposely going on small stages or stages that I hate and then learning to use them to my advantage. I think I'll start doing that. I kinda liked smaller stages in 3.0 when magnet was broken and I could put on insane amounts of shield pressure, but I've still always been a PS2/Smashville kind of guy.

Though I do think I had some good followups in this set, I do know that I don't always get to pull off good combos or strings at all times. I mostly went into this match with the intention to look flashy and fast, but I do know how to play less of a magnet oriented style ever since 3.5 dropped and I had to deal with no magnet for a couple weeks until I relearned everything.

I appreciate the knowledge you dropped on me, though. Will definitely take any advice given into consideration and I'll continue to grind the character and hopefully help develop his meta.

 

[20PK]

One of my mates has a recording setup now so I'll possibly have a bunch of games I played up soon.

and Kips, yo that set was insane

 

[D e l t a]

Yeah I definitely love watching a good Lucas in the Snake MU. I don't have much real pracfice in the MU other than Professor Pro at TBH4. I'm picking up Snake as a fun secondary and someone I think I'll use more against scrubs and in friendlies. He's a fun character with way more DPS and kill options. Sticky setups are my favorite thing recently

I feel I may have come off a tad strong when I said your followups can improve. I'm simply saying there is always room to improve and maximize efficiency. There's a number of times where spacing a weak Fair could be better than getting the Uair that might send the opponent the backwards (Uair can send up or diagonally back). In other cases, a Fair might not hit, so Uair is a good substitution. Other areas, they may be getting too high and DI'ing up, so a Dair to send the enemy back down or finishing with a Bair and resetting the situation / setting for a ledge guard could work better than the extra dmg from another Uair

When training / in friendlies, I'll purposely put on stages I absolutely HATE (FoD, Yoshi's Island, Norfair, Battlefield, etc) and only those stages.

**The less of a stage counter pick your opponent has, the more of an advantage you will have.**

My friend absolutely loves FD as Yoshi, but despises BF ironically enough. Having better platform movement & control works in my favor, and taking advantage of open space on FD with no platforms to escape the Lucas juggles is even better for me.

 

[D e l t a]

Here's a few general examples of how to continue your combos and why certain options are better than others. Time stamps are from your video.

0:28 No tech on Dair. Possible good followups afterwards can include: DJC Uair/Fair, another SH Dair, magnet, dash attack, Utilt, Dtilt / jab - can potentially jab reset if Dtilt hits the sourspot or if the enemy does not SDI Dtilt / jab.

I would personally use DJC Fair. If CCd, the enemy will be hit slightly up and will do nothing, buffer input a shield, or attempt to retaliate. As Snake is slow, he will most likely go for shield or be doing nothing after Fair. At the position you were at on the stage, another 2-3 Fairs could be linked together and lead to a ledge guard.

Most other options can be CC'd or SDI'd out of. DJC Uair/Magnet can be CCd as the enemy is on the ground after a missed tech. Utilt might hit sourspot, which can still combo well or put him on the platform. If my tech is off on a certain day, this is the option I would most likely choose. Sweetspot Utilt at this % can lead to some good followups.

6:05 probably Netplay lag. Dair popped Snake up, had a free followup ready.

6:08 Dropped shield to jab. Could've done: Dair to an Upsmash kill, Nair for a ledge guard setup, DJC Uair for a flashy OoS combo starter. This one is very technical and one of the harder OoS because it's possible to accidentally JC Upsmash or jump -> Uair. It's something very good to practice however.

 

[Kipcom]

0:28 was supposed to be a DJC uair, I just messed it up. The other times you posted were my slip ups as well, but I do think netplay can sometimes slip you up when you're moving so fast.

I also did a lot of full jump zair istead of wavedashing like I intended to this set by mistake and I have no idea why. I have NEVER done that before, especially not so frequently lol.

As for what combos into what, I already know about everything you said, it's just a matter of me actually doing it. My combos have definitely improved since 3.5, but I do understand that my vid in particular doesn't show it off too well since I just felt like using lots of tech skill
Not gonna lie though, there are some characters that I still suck at comboing. It's frustrating lol.

Maybe next week I'll play another match and focus solely on continuing combos instead of magnet flash and then post the vid here.

I do love my magnet flash though