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Watching Little Boys: A Lucas Video Thread

20PK

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Eisen, oh my god, please use a proper recording setup, I feel like someone PKF'd my eyes.

Watched the first video and it's nice although probably widely known info - I had intuitively known that FAir was kinda weak but your point kinda highlighted to me that I should be using it a lot in combos since it has low knock-back.

Btw, your PKF stuff applies to DJC PKFs (rars, etc.) right?

P.S. Deepvoiceguy when you get around to it i wouldn't mind some feedback on a match or two of mine. I know a lot of people have been posting lately tho so no rush.
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Eisen, oh my god, please use a proper recording setup, I feel like someone PKF'd my eyes.

P.S. Deepvoiceguy when you get around to it i wouldn't mind some feedback on a match or two of mine. I know a lot of people have been posting lately tho so no rush.
Oh dear, poor recording setup nooo T_T haven't seen it yet, but hopefully it's manageable.

Finals week is killer, but I mean "No Johns," right? lol
Anyway, I'll be doing a lot with everybody's vids I couldn't get to, starting next week or so. Expect big updates to the Lucas guide as well. I'll be doing my best as soon as this current term is over!
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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I actually go to an engineering school that has 3 month school terms & 3 month co-op work terms (my paid internship). So during work term I have down time during the 40hr work weeks plus any time at home
 

Kipcom

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So, I'm uploading things on mid-level(ish?) Lucas play and just how much crap this character can do. I've recorded over an hour so far, but if you don't mind boring voices go right ahead. I'd say people like Neon may not need it as much (idk what he knows or doesn't know), but folks looking for help who are confused or feel like 3.5 Lucas is bad could benefit from this.

I explain why his 3.5 "nerfs" weren't really that nerfy, and some unused possibilities I don't see utilized, plus stuff I didn't know about for a while and want other people to see. Overall I just want this character to succeed so people can stop calling us frauds because of 3.02

Currently uploading the second video, so if you can't see it yet, just give it some time.

Anyone want me to keep doing things like this?
@Eisen! Long time, no see man! Glad to see that you're still playing the young god that is Lucas. I remember you made some post about how you really hated the nerfs that they gave him, but I do admire that you're back on the grind.

And sure man, keep putting out vids. I'm sure plenty of upcoming Lucas mains will appreciate stuff like this.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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I'm going thru that after. I saw him vs Kyle and I have to say it just shows how Neon isn't comfortable with 3.5 Lucas at all.

Not to mention the lack of experience w/ Peach and handling the MU improperly. Neon goes for kills in a weird manner and doesn't always choose the safest / smartest options. Playing against Peach is weird, but I've suprisingly had little trouble with her and Samus, which are somewhat difficult for Lucas.

Just to clarify, in no way do I mean to bash Neon or throw shade at him. Silly Kyle has returned and in full force. Props to him for doing so well at this tournament. Him and Medz both did fantastically
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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But man I love that he's gone back to Lucas. It gives me some great content to watch in down time and I love his shield pressure / movement in neutral overall. Always learning some new creative thing every time I watch him
 

Kipcom

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Sorry guys I dropped Lucas for Shaq. I hope you can understand.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Bo5 set with my training partner, Railz. Apologies on the jank recording setup, I still don't have splitters or any other legit recording software :/

OGS | Delta (Lucas) vs OGS | Railz (Yoshi)
 
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20PK

Smash Apprentice
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Nice set. A fair few whiffed up-smashes but some sick combos, especially on that 2nd match on FD.

Have you tried using the WiFi version of PM? I think it can do replays fine, albeit doesn't have stage banning.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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I'm not sure about the wifi version of PM. I think it messed up L cancels & wavedashes last I checked

And I'm mad I kept inputting dash for upsmash too early. It almost never happens to me so I feel really embarrassed that it happened as much as it did :/// I figured I'd still upload for those that wanted to see my Lucas lol. Overall is a good representation of how I currently play. When I get to record myself during the day, I'm sure I'll have much better sets for you guys, rather than the last few games of the night haha.
 

D e l t a

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Hold on, did the commentator say Neon bodied Pink Fresh? I need to see this
Too lazy to rewatch currently, but wasn't this in reference to APEX? If so, that set wasn't recorded. From both PF and Neon themself, they said agreed that Neon was clearly better. In other posts, PF says that Neon is flashy and doesn't always do "optimal stuff," which is true to a point. Neon will trample anybody unfamiliar with the MU.
 

Pwii

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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUlQZqWo6xoReaUtxbt6U0vqQ9zc7Ogiw

There's a lot of Neon's Lucas in here. A LOT. What do you guys think of the Peach MU after watching him vs Silly Kyle?
Hey, the lucas forums are getting back up to speed :D

Also, I have a lot of experience vs peach. I used to play friendlies for hours on end with a peach player, although he wasn't very good. I do have some stuff to share though, especially since I've been playing Key's peach.

* When you combo upward on a stage that isn't FD, peach will end up on platforms a lot with you beneath her. Sometimes they'll downsmash expecting you to jump up and uair again, which you can punish with an upsmash. Good peaches will adapt, but you'll probably be able to get an early stock like this once or twice early in a set, or at least condition them out of it so you can platform tech chase/combo. Main point is Peaches act like they can just dsmash to get out of platform pressure for free which should not happen. Also, worst comes to worst it clanks and you lose OU charge.
* If I remember right, Dair with proper shffl timing links into itself like 3 times if they don't SDI and you don't miss. After that they either get popped up for uairs or smacked down so you can magnet on reaction into more upairs.
* Peach's uthrow combos you almost like spacies. You're very close to being able to dj out for free at low percents, but you're ****ed if they call you on it and do something like an ftilt, usmash, or utilt. So it doesn't chaingrab, but it's a good combo starter you have to respect.
* If you play a peach long enough, they will eventually snipe your pkt1 with a turnip and you will fall as they taunt. Guaranteed. In all seriousness though, turnip edgeguarding doesn't work very well unless they call out a lazy zair from far enough away, so don't do that.
* You need space to fight peach. She combos you almost as hard as fox or falco, so something like dreamland is very much in our favor. Sure she'll live a bit longer, but Lucas' recovery is almost as good as hers in terms of raw distance, so take the running room. You're faster, and if Peach knows to float over your pkf range, you have to play more bait-oriented with your dashdance game. Nothing you have will win against a fc fair, so respect it or bring your lube.
* When you're comboing peach and she tries to float away from you, dacus is an option. You can't use it a lot, but once you start juggling peach, she doesn't good hitboxes she can aim at you, so she might opt to just create space. If you read her pulling a turnip on a platform across the stage or something you can punish it with dacus. Although this is something I've exclusively picked up on playing the not-so-good peach.
* Ban Yoshis Story, Warioware/GHZ, and Fountain. Dreamland, FD, Smashville, and Norfair (even though I hate it) are your friends. I'd take PS2 or MDVAville over BF.

Both characters combo each other hard, but Lucas survives Peach's kills better than Peach survives Lucas'. Idk who wins the matchup, but I'm leaning in favor of Lucas.
EDIT: I know, it reminds me of gannon mus from melee. He hits like a truck if you dont respect him, but lucas is a better character. Also cp distant planet.


Also, since the forums are alive now, would it be cool if I reposted a set of mine? I put it up here earlier, but no one gave me any feedback.
 
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D e l t a

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Hey, the lucas forums are getting back up to speed :D

Also, I have a lot of experience vs peach. I used to play friendlies for hours on end with a peach player, although he wasn't very good. I do have some stuff to share though, especially since I've been playing Key's peach.

* Ban Yoshis Story, Warioware/GHZ, and Fountain. Dreamland, FD, Smashville, and Norfair (even though I hate it) are your friends. I'd take PS2 or MDVAville over BF.

Both characters combo each other hard, but Lucas survives Peach's kills better than Peach survives Lucas'. Idk who wins the matchup, but I'm leaning in favor of Lucas.

Also, since the forums are alive now, would it be cool if I reposted a set of mine? I put it up here earlier, but no one gave me any feedback.

Hey good to see you Pwii. I saw a bit of you from Brawl days I think, but I never heard of you in PM. You're friends with Salem, Nakat, etc. correct? Glad to see you chose the boy wonder, Lucas. Myself and a few others have been actively trying to revive the forums as of the last few months. I love this character/game and how he plays so I'm happy to share all the knowledge I can as well as learning anything new.

==

Let me know if I'm wrong / missing anything below
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Peach is an interesting MU I have little real life experience outside of playing my mid-level friend's Peach, so I'm happy to learn anything I can about the character. I usually do well against Peach since her Nair OoS can be avoided easily IMO. Dair beats out CC Dsmash due to the way hitboxes are and the hitstun it puts her in. Additionally, Lucas' shield can withstand aerial into Dsmash on shield or in general raw Dsmash. Turnips can be volatile when sniping our recovery, but don't seem to be too much of a hassle. She doesn't have much that combats safe Lucas pressure and gets combo'd easily. She can't necessarily escape pressure/combos like other characters can (Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, etc) which makes the MU easier as trades do not frequently occur much. As many people know, Peach relies on trades and racks on damage that way.

Agreed on stages. Smaller = worse, larger = better :yeahboi:
Her hitboxes and stage control are primarily focused around one central point on stage, but does bad against campy characters.

MU is similar to vsing spacies if not slightly easier due to Lucas not having to interact directly with Peach nearly as much as spacies do. Accounting for the Peach buffs given in PM, I'd still say the MU is 55/45 at BEST, 70/30 at WORST. On average would be 60/40 Lucas' favor with the absurd kill power, spacing tools, and overall interactions that Lucas has with Peach. I also find ledge guards & trapping Peach at the ledge relatively easier than some characters. Is this just my opinion or do others find this true as well?

==

Not sure when you posted the vid, but if you repost it I'll give it a look and let you know what I think. The only time I've seen this MU at a high level (or in general really) was when Neon fought Silly Kyle recently. I was sad that he lost & didn't do some of the better followups that he usually does :/
 
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Pwii

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Hey good to see you Pwii. I saw a bit of you from Brawl days I think, but I never heard of you in PM. You're friends with Salem, Nakat, etc. correct? Glad to see you chose the boy wonder, Lucas. Myself and a few others have been actively trying to revive the forums as of the last few months. I love this character/game and how he plays so I'm happy to share all the knowledge I can as well as learning anything new.

==

Let me know if I'm wrong / missing anything below
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Peach is an interesting MU I have little real life experience outside of playing my mid-level friend's Peach, so I'm happy to learn anything I can about the character. I usually do well against Peach since her Nair OoS can be avoided easily IMO. Dair beats out CC Dsmash due to the way hitboxes are and the hitstun it puts her in. Additionally, Lucas' shield can withstand aerial into Dsmash on shield or in general raw Dsmash. Turnips can be volatile when sniping our recovery, but don't seem to be too much of a hassle. She doesn't have much that combats safe Lucas pressure and gets combo'd easily. She can't necessarily escape pressure/combos like other characters can (Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, etc) which makes the MU easier as trades do not frequently occur much. As many people know, Peach relies on trades and racks on damage that way.

Agreed on stages. Smaller = worse, larger = better :yeahboi:
Her hitboxes and stage control are primarily focused around one central point on stage, but does bad against campy characters.

MU is similar to vsing spacies if not slightly easier due to Lucas not having to interact directly with Peach nearly as much as spacies do. Accounting for the Peach buffs given in PM, I'd still say the MU is 55/45 at BEST, 70/30 at WORST. On average would be 60/40 Lucas' favor with the absurd kill power, spacing tools, and overall interactions that Lucas has with Peach. I also find ledge guards & trapping Peach at the ledge relatively easier than some characters. Is this just my opinion or do others find this true as well?

==

Not sure when you posted the vid, but if you repost it I'll give it a look and let you know what I think. The only time I've seen this MU at a high level (or in general really) was when Neon fought Silly Kyle recently. I was sad that he lost & didn't do some of the better followups that he usually does :/
LOL you got the wrong guy. I did start off with Brawl, but I never got into the scene until I left it for PM and Melee. The most I know Salem is his god tier sweep of Apex 2013. I can almost guarantee you've never met me unless you went to Keys' tournament last year or so in Texarkana. Also NM about the critique, all I had was a twitch timestamp that's currently R.I.P.ing in peace. :/ Hopefully I'll get to MM Meximelt (Lucario main) this wednesday, and get Keys to make a VOD or something.

I've never noticed that she couldn't cc dsmash our dair because my old friend didn't cc defensively that much, but it's good to hear. IMO it's at least 60/40, maybe 65/35.

I honestly couldn't say about ledge game, because I suck at it. I do know if they recover from below for some reason and don't sweetspot you can space a bair. I also know that bad DI on a dthrow that sends them off the edge at early percent you can punish with a double dair, following them all the way down to the grave :Kappa: Except for you can also make it back with good aim on the pkt. I have been experimenting with dj nair for edgeguarding, via holding down Y to get full height. In my mind I see it working against Peach's horizontal recovery.

But yeah everything you said was spot on.
 
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D e l t a

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Wait, so this wasn't you I'm assuming? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXQdn-al9Q

Yeah sorry about not getting to Twitch vods. I'm primarily on my phone and Apple / mobile isn't friendly with vods. Next time try to download it if you can and upload to YouTube or some other media sharing website.

==

Anyway....
I've never noticed that she couldn't cc dsmash our dair because my old friend didn't cc defensively that much, but it's good to hear. IMO it's at least 60/40, maybe 65/35.

I honestly couldn't say about ledge game, because I suck at it. I do know if they recover from below for some reason and don't sweetspot you can space a bair. I also know that bad DI on a dthrow that sends them off the edge at early percent you can punish with a double dair, following them all the way down to the grave :Kappa: Except for you can also make it back with good aim on the pkt. I have been experimenting with dj nair for edgeguarding, via holding down Y to get full height. In my mind I see it working against Peach's horizontal recovery.
Yeah Lucas is one of the few characters that can always beat her CC if done correctly. It's why the MU gets even easier for us, because Lucas basically mitigates Dsmash unless you're dumb and try to use one of his down moves or CC a Peach randomly. I don't know why, but it happens. I've only ever gone into the blender / washing machine / whatever you want to call it, once. I've never gotten hit by the full hit any other time. It's really easy to avoid lol.

Ok I'll assume it's safe to call this MU 60/40 for now.

==

I've been using rising DJ Nair as well. I've had success with it here n there, very hard to pull off correctly & consistently due to timing and being situational, but very rewarding. If anything, one of the first 2 hits usually connect and I reset the ledge guard situation then catch them missing the sweetspot and punish with another Dair or a sweetspot Bair spike. To be honest, rising Dair is just fun to play around with and it's a nifty ledge guard tool similar to Falco's Dair off the ledge.

Personally I work on ledge game a lot. I don't usually drop ledgeguards much, I'm about 7 for 10 in tourney games on ledge guarding which is pretty good all things considered. I count ledge guards as them not being able to land back on stage. Best believe if you're not sweetspotting or a spacie you're either going to eat at least 50% or more if not losing your stock. Considering my training partner is a Yoshi main, I take a lot of solo time dedicated towards ledge guarding since Yoshi doesn't get ledge guarded in the typical sense due to armor & his janky SideB egg roll move. Most of my combo game is solid bc Yoshi will either Nair or double jump out of combos if I'm not perfect. I also practice in the lab a lot.
 

Kipcom

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I'll be going to a tournament this weekend so you guys might get a little something from me soon.
 

D e l t a

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There's some local guys in my area that have stream stuff. Idk much about them archiving or recording, but if they can, I definitely have some amazing stuff I did last night and I'll try to share at later times if it gets recorded.
 

Thermal

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During the first game, I saw that you threw out alot of fullhops for no reason and landed with a DJC PKF. I wouldn't really advise you do this as being above Marth isn't very optimal at all, though I am assuming it was a WD flub as if you airdodge too quickly you fullhop.
 

D e l t a

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Snap! 20PK I didn't know that you were Colum!! Yo I've got some tips for you. I'll send you a thing next week when I find some time

I've always seen your Lucas when browsing thru YouTube and thought it had so much potential to be really good. For some reason you were always my favorite lower level player to watch lol. There's something about your style I always liked, idk. Remind me by next weekend if I don't get back to you
 

20PK

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I'm not Colum hahaha! Thermal, bro, when I post vids randomly don't just assume they're mine, usually i'd write a big post about what i'd need to work on like my last post of my own vids here haha.

I have to admit it was tempting to just run with it and say I was Colum though.
 

D e l t a

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Oh my b. For some reason I thought you were him. Usually people post like Neon or themselves on here
 

Thermal

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I'm not Colum hahaha! Thermal, bro, when I post vids randomly don't just assume they're mine, usually i'd write a big post about what i'd need to work on like my last post of my own vids here haha.
My bad, I kind of assumed that when people post videos here they are themselves seeking advice.
 

Kipcom

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When you hinted at it, I knew what you were referring to.

But I didn't know how much I wanted this until actually seeing it.
 

D e l t a

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It's so godlike. Until seeing the video myself, I never knew how much I wanted to see a twerking Lucas XD
 

Kipcom

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As promised folks, I come with content from my regional this past weekend. Got 5th, but I know I could have done better and gotten at least 3rd, but mom's spaghetti was had.


Here's a 15 dollar MM. Kip (Lucas) vs. Garr (Mewtwo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGew05n_LYk
Unfortunately, the guy SDs like a billion times...Well, at least I got $15? >_>

Tournament Matches:

Kip (Lucas, Fraud Marth) vs. Anime (Wario) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k3wXwg-yHI

Kip (Lucas) vs. SS | Flamin Roy (Fox, Falcon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGyJzUKuVtM

Kip (Lucas) vs. Player-3 (ZSS, Wario) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsHVlm65KYY

I also had a bunch of friendlies recorded with my buddy Scatz and GA's best PM player (and one of the best PM (and potentially Smash 4???) Falcon mains), Fatality on Monday. I'm not handling those videos but once they go up, get ready for some more stuff from my Lucas.
 

D e l t a

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As promised folks, I come with content from my regional this past weekend. Got 5th, but I know I could have done better and gotten at least 3rd, but mom's spaghetti was had.


Here's a 15 dollar MM. Kip (Lucas) vs. Garr (Mewtwo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGew05n_LYk
Unfortunately, the guy SDs like a billion times...Well, at least I got $15? >_>

Tournament Matches:

Kip (Lucas, Fraud Marth) vs. Anime (Wario) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k3wXwg-yHI

Kip (Lucas) vs. SS | Flamin Roy (Fox, Falcon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGyJzUKuVtM

Kip (Lucas) vs. Player-3 (ZSS, Wario) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsHVlm65KYY

I also had a bunch of friendlies recorded with my buddy Scatz and GA's best PM player (and one of the best PM (and potentially Smash 4???) Falcon mains), Fatality on Monday. I'm not handling those videos but once they go up, get ready for some more stuff from my Lucas.
Whoo! I can't wait to look thru all these. I'll let you know what I think. Good stuff getting 5th (y) it's a start. And free $$ is always nice lol

EDIT: quick notes so far from the M2 match—
Try dash dancing around a bit more. M2's tele approaches are very fast and cover lots of ground quickly. PKF will whiff and leave you vulnerable or his Nair will cut straight thru the projectile. Also use less PKF when they have invincibility off a spawn platform. Nair/Dair with multi-hitboxes can catch them as invincibility runs out.
Read their DI on Dair and chase them down. A lot of times you seem too afraid to commit to an approach and back off your Nairs. Followups overall seem pretty solid. I love the little attempts with DJC Fair strings. If they start to escape, crouch cancel, and/or shield the DJC Fairs, go for a grab or Nair afterwards.
 
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Kipcom

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I'm still pretty glad about getting top 8. I haven't place that well in a tournament since August, unless I count the small local I went to a few weeks ago where I got first.

The pressure of placing high at a Regional is too real, though. Looking at all my matches, there's a significant lack of flash and confidence missing that I had the early on in the tournament.

I'll do better next time for all the Lucas boys. :lucas:
 
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