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Watching Little Boys: A Lucas Video Thread

ilysm

sleepy
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Jul 13, 2014
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Cleveland, OH/Providence, RI
@ D e l t a D e l t a how does the dance taunt work, exactly? I'm assuming the input is similar to Ness's, but...can you cancel it? Or does it just rattle on and on for almost thirty seconds? Is there music? What is the frame data? Is it viable for edge-guarding? Does it have a damaging hitbox that OHKOs any opponent touching Lucas when he strikes the disco pose at the end?
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
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@ ilysm ilysm

Tbh I have no clue on anything of his taunt other than what it looks like in-game. Played a build my PMBR friend had a few weeks ago for a short while. Taunt was glitchy & couldn't be cancelled lol. Literally every button combination was tried.

Doubt the taunt will be OP or have any sort of hitbox (up taunt already does that when you hold to trip then getup
atk).

Pretty sure he just danced to the in-game music. It seems complicated to have the music stop purely for Lucas, then account for multiple Lucas' taunting on screen PLUS if one gets interrupted.........you can see where this is going.

I'm excited to see what it does in 3.6 I'll know when you do :)
 

Kipcom

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Alright guys, the friendlies are up!

Here's me vs. a couple different people when I attended The Royal Treatment last Saturday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqIdSAObQs

Vs. my buddy Scatz's Yoshi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aS6g41eXpI

Vs. Ice Effect (Zelda) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWRvyq6BVQk

And finally, the hypest one yet, here's me facing off against Fatality's Falcon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiF0Q8-JZS0
I get bopped lmao. But at least it's not as bad as it was last year when I could hardly touch the guy, let alone get him to final stock most games. Also, I swear the L+R+A+Starts aren't out of salt lol
 

20PK

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
108
Location
Perth, Australia
Alright guys, the friendlies are up!

Here's me vs. a couple different people when I attended The Royal Treatment last Saturday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGqIdSAObQs

Vs. my buddy Scatz's Yoshi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aS6g41eXpI

Vs. Ice Effect (Zelda) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWRvyq6BVQk

And finally, the hypest one yet, here's me facing off against Fatality's Falcon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiF0Q8-JZS0
I get bopped lmao. But at least it's not as bad as it was last year when I could hardly touch the guy, let alone get him to final stock most games. Also, I swear the L+R+A+Starts aren't out of salt lol
hahaha man that magnet drift at 1:22 of the first link
 

TakaiSendo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
23
Looking for some criticism. Sorry in advance for bad audio and no cameras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7KEzL-Pn4&index=1&list=PLGOopeirW0AHvJzYSxmQExU30YBPpr2aG

First match starts at 1:11:03

I know I really won this match purely on the other guy not knowing the match-up at all. A lot to improve on seen in this match from the very unsafe dash attacks poorly spaced fairs and loosing OU from messsing up DJC PKF. Also, the lack of short hop muscle memory came out. Game two was a little better with approaches.

Second match starts at 1:40:07

The only thing I know I needed to improve a ton on this game was my punishes. They should be all the way to kills vs DDD. I really need some help in this match up in general though. In neutral I can't force him to approach with PKF and if I try to approach via ground or short hop his f. tilt interrupts it. I was hitting some of the PKF and I know I need to convert those to combos but outside of that the only thing I could think to do was full hop aerials.

Thanks in advance.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
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Messages
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Looking for some criticism. Sorry in advance for bad audio and no cameras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7KEzL-Pn4&index=1&list=PLGOopeirW0AHvJzYSxmQExU30YBPpr2aG

First match starts at 1:11:03

I know I really won this match purely on the other guy not knowing the match-up at all. A lot to improve on seen in this match from the very unsafe dash attacks poorly spaced fairs and loosing OU from messsing up DJC PKF. Also, the lack of short hop muscle memory came out. Game two was a little better with approaches.

Second match starts at 1:40:07

The only thing I know I needed to improve a ton on this game was my punishes. They should be all the way to kills vs DDD. I really need some help in this match up in general though. In neutral I can't force him to approach with PKF and if I try to approach via ground or short hop his f. tilt interrupts it. I was hitting some of the PKF and I know I need to convert those to combos but outside of that the only thing I could think to do was full hop aerials.

Thanks in advance.
Send me a reminder message Thursday or Friday afternoon if I don't respond to you by then.

There's a ton of potential for you here. I'm a little slow / lazy when it comes to write-ups haha. I definitely see a lot for you to improve on and I'll try to get you my critique of your playing as soon as I can.
 

TheCandyman

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 15, 2014
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Hey guys, technically not a match of Lucas playing, but check this new AT out! I call it the Lucas "mag-dash," short for magnet -> wavedash back on ledge.

Video link: http://youtu.be/pME4izA6vx0
Unfortunately I can't check this out now but it seems like it could be really good for Lucas' meta.

Speaking of going from the ledge quick question: how many frames of invincibility does Lucas have on ledge dash?
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
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Messages
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Unfortunately I can't check this out now but it seems like it could be really good for Lucas' meta.

Speaking of going from the ledge quick question: how many frames of invincibility does Lucas have on ledge dash?
Try the gfycat I just made

Not sure about ledge invincibility from ledge dash. It's really low and runs out as your WD is ending on stage due to his double jump properties. This method I found is really useful as it's more reliable than ledge dash and slightly faster (granted you're below 100%). This is also safer because you save your double jump and if you mess up, you aren't as likely to SD.
 

TakaiSendo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
23
Send me a reminder message Thursday or Friday afternoon if I don't respond to you by then.

There's a ton of potential for you here. I'm a little slow / lazy when it comes to write-ups haha. I definitely see a lot for you to improve on and I'll try to get you my critique of your playing as soon as I can.

Poke =D
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
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Messages
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Michigan
Looking for some criticism. Sorry in advance for bad audio and no cameras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW7KEzL-Pn4&index=1&list=PLGOopeirW0AHvJzYSxmQExU30YBPpr2aG

First match starts at 1:11:03

I know I really won this match purely on the other guy not knowing the match-up at all. A lot to improve on seen in this match from the very unsafe dash attacks poorly spaced fairs and loosing OU from messsing up DJC PKF. Also, the lack of short hop muscle memory came out. Game two was a little better with approaches.

Second match starts at 1:40:07

The only thing I know I needed to improve a ton on this game was my punishes. They should be all the way to kills vs DDD. I really need some help in this match up in general though. In neutral I can't force him to approach with PKF and if I try to approach via ground or short hop his f. tilt interrupts it. I was hitting some of the PKF and I know I need to convert those to combos but outside of that the only thing I could think to do was full hop aerials.

Thanks in advance.
1:11:13 Dash dancing & baits are there, but full hopping in neutral as Lucas gives away stage control

1:11:15 Dthrow -> Uair with that sort of DI works at most %’s. Dthrow -> bair is a solid followup from 0-20%. I like the option of attempting to use fsmash to send him off stage where most players try to retaliate with a counter move such as Nair/Dair. With Lucas, you can get a followup off Dthrow on almost every character. Don’t be afraid to play around with his follow-ups.

1:11:25 You had something started here before the tech error. In tight space like this situation, dash dance around

1:11:30 Shield grabs are bad 99% of the time. Against Mario, you’ll very rarely get a grab or be punished from whiffed shield grabs due to the insane distance both of you travel away from each other. Just be aware that you will almost never get a shield grab against Mario.

1:11:35 Good recovery. Riding the wall to either get a sweetspot or avoid landing on stage in a bad position is optimal

1:11:39 Don’t crash land down with aerials. Lucas has low priority especially when landing.

1:12:04-1:12:25 Great stage control. I’d recommend looking back on this time frame and seeing how you avoided most attacks (aside from pills). Your movement & spacing was what enabled you to stay out of Mario’s range and punish whiffed attacks. The reason he grabbed you and threw you off stage was the Dair on shield. This move is fairly easy to punish unless you cross-up the opponent. Nair or magnet would have been the best choice in this case.

1:12:29 If you don’t jump from ledge right away, you won’t receive ledge invincibility when jumping.

Quick note: To give you an idea of adapting and reading opponents habits: by this point, I’ve noticed one of your big habits already. You dash dance once or twice then immediately run in with a dash attack or some other flying aerial / attack with little thought. Learn to control space better & use a combination of dash dancing & wavedashing in neutral.

1:12:50 Free pill. Absorb & heal 5-7% without fear of a punish.

1:12:50-1:13:04 Crash landing again. Enemy moved back twice and both times punished accordingly.

1:13:10 Don’t dash attack towards the ledge. Almost always is a terrible choice.

Summary of game:

Used jumps to bait opponent. Predictable approaches. Opponent didn’t know how to properly punish the jump baits & constant dash attack which is why you won the game.

Movement and control of stage needs improvement. Work on controlling space better and holding center stage more often. Understand stage play and how you can force your opponent to approach you.

Practice grab follow-ups. One grab from Lucas should either lead into a large combo or death.

To visually see the first frame you can act out of dthrow, hold shield while Lucas is in his throw animation. As soon as the opponent hits the ground and bounces up, you should your shield pull up around that time. This indicates the first frame you can act. If you’re not quick enough, the opponent can escape.
 

TakaiSendo

Smash Rookie
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Apr 6, 2015
Messages
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Noted on everything. I rarely go for up airs even though I know they're really amazing. Like in the situation 1:11:15 I think a DJC Uair would've been probably the best choice. I'll start trying to incorporate those into my play just like magnets. I'm going to Fayettnam 7 this weekend so hopefully I'll get some more recorded matches in. While I plan to take a laptop and my streaming setup I'm not for sure if I'll have the wifi and bandwidth available to stream. I've also picked up a Wii U adapter and am starting to play over netplay as well as long as there's minimal input delay.

Can you also elaborate or link me a guide on stage play and how to force my oppenent to approach? I know with some character's it's pretty easy to get them to approach but some are pretty hard.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll have more to follow especially as I keep getting better. =D
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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I rarely go for up airs even though I know they're really amazing. I'll start trying to incorporate those into my play just like magnets.

Can you also elaborate or link me a guide on stage play and how to force my oppenent to approach? I know with some character's it's pretty easy to get them to approach but some are pretty hard.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll have more to follow especially as I keep getting better. =D
One quick note: Uair doesn't have much hitstun, so you'll need to be fast with your combos. Currently, you don't seem to play at a fast rate.

I'd suggest going for the highest APM (attacks per minute) that you can while playing. Take note on how Neon & PinkFresh combo. Learn to hit an aerial and immediately fast fall (SHFFL aerials) then go for a second aerial. Lucas is all about quick, rapid hits.

==

Scroll slightly down. This contains most things you're most likely looking for.

http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-ssbm-compendium-of-knowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/

==

Happy to help. You're at a trainable level where I don't have to cover the basic "don't roll a ton, learn to L cancel / wavedash, etc." looking forward to seeing some improvement in the upcoming weeks.
 

TakaiSendo

Smash Rookie
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Messages
23
Uploading the matches to youtube now. I went 0-2 but both matches felt relatively close. I got eliminated to the mario that you analyzed last time. xD
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Uploading the matches to youtube now. I went 0-2 but both matches felt relatively close. I got eliminated to the mario that you analyzed last time. xD
Mario is tough man. I was playing friendlies with my friend's Mario yesterday. I gotta hit the lab and find new ways to help y'all deal with him. Almost got 3rd seed in pools against a Ganon, Ganon/Squirtle and Marth/Fox (3rd ranked PR).

The Marth MU is definitely way less worse than i thought a few months ago.
Ganon is a lot easier to fight personally. Once Lucas spaces well and deal with his gimmicks, Ganon v Lucas is pretty easy to win as Lucas.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Got vods? Still have trouble against this char.
If I can get the raw archives of yesterday there was one pool match I had. The main thing about Marth as with many MUs IMO, is to not attempt to combat a grounded Marth. Wait for him to swing first (literally). In the air, Fair will go thru PKF; however, you can wait for them to throw an aerial on shield & punish accordingly, or run underneath them and punish their landing. Ledge guards are fairly simply- throw out PKF to stuff jumps, Dsmash / Bair / magnet -> turnaround Fair off the ledge, or simply grab ledge if they're too far away.

Combos are interesting and more or less just rapid Fair/Uair strings. Easier combos include magnet into Upsmash, Nair will set up for Fair / Uair / Nair, Dair into anything.

This MU is primarily about patience and heavy punish game. Marth can throw you off stage and ledge guard easily. Lucas can combo Marth to death easier than most characters IMO. Projectile can be countered by most of Marth's attacks, but if they don't stop PKF, the free hit confirm can lead into some big damage
 

TakaiSendo

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIk9VZMMIA&index=3&list=PLGOopeirW0AHJoY5_LLF9I0BtUXVlj-tq

First game at 3:26

I'll be analyzing it pretty for super obvious mistakes.

Game 1:

3:33 -Bad DJ that could've been stage pressure via DJC PKF

3:36 -Bad Shield grab and got off lucky with an bad punish

3:42-3:44 -Should've been dash dancing but got a throw anyway. Used down thrown with no follow up potential. I feel like Uair would've been better.

3:57 -Bad fox trot and ended up sliding and not wave dashing out of the slide either.

4:07 -Missed DJC PKF and did a grounded one. Was somewhat safe since the distance was so far.

4:14 -Good SDI to live from the Uair from fox.(It's literally the only thing I know I need to SDI which needs improvement.

4:31 -Good Spacing on the Bair to secure the kill.

4:39 -Got a grab and used down throw at like 5%......

4:47 -Bad Raw F.smash that leads to death.

Realized If i keep doing it like this, this list gonna be pretty long. Lol I'll let the experts do the general and I'll write this stuff down somewhere. I'm also not sure on stage selection. I know in most cases FD is pretty good for lucas but I need to make a chart for all characters for like stages selection and bans and CP stages.

Last note. This was my first tournament and I finally got my Tournament nerves @ 10:00. It started when I missed the wavedash on the platform. I don't they'll be back until I start placing higher. Nerves really don't bother me to much and didnt affect my second game(set) at all.
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Realized If i keep doing it like this, this list gonna be pretty long. Lol I'll let the experts do the general and I'll write this stuff down somewhere.

I'm also not sure on stage selection. I know in most cases FD is pretty good for lucas but I need to make a chart for all characters for like stages selection and bans and CP stages.

Last note. This was my first tournament and I finally got my Tournament nerves @ 10:00. It started when I missed the wavedash on the platform. I don't they'll be back until I start placing higher. Nerves really don't bother me too much and didnt affect my second game(set) at all.
Definitely keep time stamping your playing. Noticing good & bad habits, be it in neutral or in your combo / ledge guard punishes, will help you in the long run. I can give a brief, general summary later for you. Noticing intricacies in your playing will be beneficial as you can recognize these tiny details while you're playing, and correct them.

Check the Lucas boards shortly. I'm going to make a compilation thread to discuss CP stages for all characters.

Tourney nerves suck. I still get them and I've been in the scene for over a year. I mostly stay calm, but even the best players get tourney nerves. Yes, this includes the 5 Melee gods as well. It's good that you stayed calm overall. The better you do and more comfortable you are with the opponents definitely makes a difference toward how you play and feel.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Hey guys!! I have a new set of friendlies up for you. First time getting good practice against Mew2 outside of the 1 tourney set I've ever played.
  1. Still don't have proper recording equipment, but my camera records in a very top-tier HD.
  2. Only john is that I don't play as well any time after 9-10pm and it was like 10:30-11:00pm :ohwell:
I'm finally dealing with UpB approaches and not doing stupid stuff in neutral. Plus I got some gfycat worthy combos and even ledge guarded M2's UpB sweetspot to the ledge at 11:48 (super hard to do). Mew2 is an interesting MU but I definitely feel it's winnable if you space correctly and don't do dumb stuff in neutral like I do haha.


EDIT: New videos up! I got a few of my scrubby secondaries and a number of Lucas v Roy & M2 matches. I had 3 separate recordings since my camera could only record so much at a time (I can't wait till I get proper equipment). They're ordered from start to finish below. I really wish I had more recordings of myself during the day time instead of 1-3am LOL

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JK1X7J-goAs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=j5uRgJqkZr4

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZUJsvEpjdtk
 
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Kipcom

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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Looking over how you play these MUs. I personally dislike the Rob MU in practice but love it in theory. You're looking like me with that ledge guard around 3:18 - light Dair to reverse Uair, fade back on ledge, fakeout magnet into all 3 hits of Dair lol
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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That was so stupid

Not because I'm salty at all over being featured in it bc of a stupid "combo"......

In all seriousness, I wish this was exclusively 3.5
 
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Kipcom

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lol I didnt even realize/notice that was you fighting Pink Fresh in that one video. :o
 

Sartron

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In all seriousness, I wish this was exclusively 3.5
Me too, most of the combos in 3.02 were pretty boring. dair -> dair -> dair -> ou usmash -> everyone pops off like its amazing :/

Although I kind of miss it LOL

EDIT: Although cmon, to be fair there is not much 3.5 tournament Lucas footage. I think. RIP
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Me too, most of the combos in 3.02 were pretty boring. dair -> dair -> dair -> ou usmash -> everyone pops off like its amazing :/

EDIT: Although cmon, to be fair there is not much 3.5 tournament Lucas footage. I think. RIP
Yeah people were / still are bad at SDI'ing Dair, so it gave free followups all the time. Not to mention the 10 Uairs into the easiest sweetspot Bair (I miss that move still). I do like the new KBG on Uair & dthrow bc it makes comboing fast fallers wayyyyy easier. Near the end of 3.0 I was starting to optimize his combo game way more and came up with cool things like light Fair to DACUS & utilizing under looked moves like Nair & utilt.

I mean there's still enough footage from 3.5 to use more clips. A lot of scenes just don't have recording setups :/ I do like their editing however. Only wish there was less fake combos / loose hitstrings. One day I'll get some good recordings from me vs my friends Revy & Tetraflora and upload for people to make a combo vid from lol.

lol I didnt even realize/notice that was you fighting Pink Fresh in that one video. :o
That was my old tag. I'm salty that you could see my upsmash starting when I wanted an up tilt. Also that double Dsmash was stupid haha. My tech errors were insanely high back then. I'm infinitely more consistent now and better overall. Plus I'd say I'm the 2nd - 3rd best in the ditto in the U.S. now only losing to maybe Neon if I ever get to meet / play him. I really wanted to rematch PF but he was busy all day :/
 
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Xcite

Smash Apprentice
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Aug 15, 2013
Messages
131
Elaborate please.
Well claiming to be 2nd or 3rd best at dittos while also having claimed previously that your playstyle has a deficient neutral game with a character who excels at that very aspect seems pretty contradictory if you ask me. Hence why it's a bold statement.
 
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D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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Well claiming to be 2nd or 3rd best at dittos while also having claimed previously that your playstyle has a deficient neutral game with a character who excels at that very aspect seems pretty contradictory if you ask me. Hence why it's a bold statement.
I was confused as to what you were referencing bc there were a lot said lol.

Anyway, I say I'm proficient at the ditto because I know exactly what to do in every aspect of the ditto. I know how to counter Lucas and how to escape those counters.
I say my neutral is bad, but I guess that's not really clear when I'm comparing myself to Melee gods or the PR in my state. Not to mention the fact that there's aspects I can improve in neutral as everybody else should be aiming to do. Nobody is truly perfect in neutral except TAS haha.
Lucas' neutral game IMO is actually his weaker aspect as PKF can be countered and then he's stuck dealing with a tiny range for attacks. He's like a worse Falco in neutral, but does almost everything else better like combos, recovery, ledge guards.
 
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Kipcom

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I was confused as to what you were referencing bc there were a lot said lol.

Anyway, I say I'm proficient at the ditto because I know exactly what to do in every aspect of the ditto. I know how to counter Lucas and how to escape those counters.
Most Lucas mains do at this point, or they should. Saying you know how to counter these things doesn't mean that you're actually going to do so against a Lucas (or another player/character in general) who is well above your skill level.
 

Xcite

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Lucas' neutral game IMO is actually his weaker aspect as PKF can be countered and then he's stuck dealing with a tiny range for attacks. He's like a worse Falco in neutral, but does almost everything else better like combos, recovery, ledge guards.
I have to disagree with you on that point. You are correct in saying that PKF is easily countered however that is not the defining point of his neutral game. The list of tiny attacks also includes his magnet, an attack with a decent size hitbox and disjoint that is also one of the most versatile moves of the game. Magnet is among the best poking tools in the game with safe approaches as well as extreme mixups from a variety of distances. I think it may be in your best interest to learn more about Magnet and its options, and then reevaluate Lucas' neutral game with your newfound knowledge.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
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@ Kipcom Kipcom Not saying it's necessarily a free way for me to win, but abusing Lucas' tools in and out and only focusing on my opponent rather than being surprised by their options gives me a vastly greater advantage over my opponent. Ever since TBH4 vs PinkFresh, Plasma, and a few other Lucas', I've yet to lose a ditto and have done very well vs Lucas players with my other characters

I think it may be in your best interest to learn more about Magnet and its options, and then reevaluate Lucas' neutral game with your newfound knowledge.
LOL ok...
 
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