Wario

[cybersai]

Why would anyone think important or pivotal Nintendo characters would be cut from the game? I seriously don't understand how this thought could come to anyones mind.

 

[volbound1700]

I'm betting the only reason they finished Pit before Wario or Yoshi is because they wanted to showcase his changes after his 3DS game. Also, I'm betting Sakurai probably had those changes to his character fresh on his mind after having developed that game, so I bet he wanted to work on Pit before those other characters.

Well Pit was popular in Smash Brothers.

To answer the question, Wario's chances are 99.99999% that he will be in the next game.

 

[choknater]

i'd love to see wario back! i hope his moveset is more interesting though

has he had any new games recently? besides mario party's and stuff.. haha

 

[JabbatheHutt]

i'd love to see wario back! i hope his moveset is more interesting though

has he had any new games recently? besides mario party's and stuff.. haha

The only first party nintendo game this summer really is Game & Wario. With the crowdfarter stuff, the waft is sure to make a return. and maybe a plastic chicken.

This video is hilarious:

 

[Fatmanonice]

i'd love to see wario back! i hope his moveset is more interesting though

has he had any new games recently? besides mario party's and stuff.. haha

Game and Wario, the latest installment in the Wario Ware franchise, comes out in a few weeks.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Just think they dropped the ball, by not putting wario in the wii fit trainer reveal

Bowser seems to have slimmed down!

Eh, it would have been awesome if he was in it, but as had already been pointed out, Wario probably hasn't been polished yet and isn't ready to be shown off.

 

[Yitsul]

pretty good, remember the brawl hype era? not all returning veterans were shown

 

[JabbatheHutt]

Lest we also forget his transformations in warioland. Maybe his balloon self can be his new recovery

 

[choknater]

game and wario? sounds fun!

 

[smashbro29]

So pretty much Wario in Project M, amirite=??? No really, I mean it.
Shoulder bash should be Wario's side B, not his Bike (which should go bye bye). Wario's ground punch should be his down smash, not that dumb roll move with no range.

Hopefully he plays that and realizes how badly he ****ed up the moveset in Brawl.

 

[JabbatheHutt]

is the castle with the W and the skull Warios castle?

 

[BluePikmin11]

is the castle with the W and the skull Warios castle?

It's just Patrick,

 

[FalKoopa]

is the castle with the W and the skull Warios castle?

It's Dr. Wily's castle from MegaMan.

 

[Fatmanonice]

pretty good, remember the brawl hype era? not all returning veterans were shown

I honestly wish somebody would mention this on Miiverse because it seems like half the posts are people crying about how *insert obvious returning character here* isn't returning because they weren't shown in the first trailer. It was insufferable during the Brawl wait too. "Oh my god guys! What if Sakurai cut Donkey Kong?" I remember the absurd amount of fanfare Zelda got when she was revealed just because of how paranoid people were.

 

[TCRhade]

Wario is my second most-wanted veteran.

For Heaven's sake give him Wario Land moves!

 

[Spinosaurus]

Hopefully he plays that and realizes how badly he ****ed up the moveset in Brawl.

How did he **** up Wario's moveset? Wasn't it Project M that screwed up Wario in the 2.1 demo?

It's pretty much the best thing you can get out of Warioware Wario. Well, the fart was out of nowhere, but the dude's obsessed with garlic so it's a nice detail. It's near perfect if you ignore Wario Land.

But you shouldn't, there definitely needs to a balance for both series for his moveset. Keep the bike, though, why the hell would you wanna get rid of something arguably as iconic to him as the shoulder dash, if not more?

 

[UnSaxon51]

I wouldn't say MORE than the shoulder bash.

But AFTER the shoulder, it's probably his most iconic feature.

 

[JabbatheHutt]

I honestly wish somebody would mention this on Miiverse because it seems like half the posts are people crying about how *insert obvious returning character here* isn't returning because they weren't shown in the first trailer. It was insufferable during the Brawl wait too. "Oh my god guys! What if Sakurai cut Donkey Kong?" I remember the absurd amount of fanfare Zelda got when she was revealed just because of how paranoid people were.

Ya but its still makine soem of us paranoid. Although its nice to se most of us feel hes the most likely character after Yoshi and Luigi to be returning

 

[Curious Villager]

I honestly wish somebody would mention this on Miiverse because it seems like half the posts are people crying about how *insert obvious returning character here* isn't returning because they weren't shown in the first trailer. It was insufferable during the Brawl wait too. "Oh my god guys! What if Sakurai cut Donkey Kong?" I remember the absurd amount of fanfare Zelda got when she was revealed just because of how paranoid people were.

As if all the people there are going to listen, a good number of posts later and the cycle of paranoia repeats itself again, like you said, this happened with previous veterans too during the Brawl days, especially with Ness. This is just some silly thing you just have to deal with until said characters are revealed. That's why I don't jump the gun of Toon Link being 100% cut just because a doppelganger who isn't even him is on a stage. I'm just going to wait until it's officially confirmed by Sakurai himself or when we see the full roster before I jump into any silly conclusions.

I do wish many people would think the same though, just wait until the full roster is revealed before you panic (or rejoice...).

 

[DoubleYooToo]

I think his new moveset should be like this

B: The Same
B->: Power Shoulder Bash - Like in Project M
Smash->: Shoulder Bash - Same as his current forward smash. My reason for this is that in Wario Land 3, Wario began the game with a weaker version of the shoulder bash that couldn't break some things and didn't have the same strength and longevity. Similarly, in Wario Land 1, his regular form had a weaker shoulder bash, while Bull Wario had a stronger one.
Down B: Power Ground Pound - Makes him fastfall, similar to Yoshi's but slower.
Down Aerial: Ground Pound - Similar reasoning as the shoulder bash. Similar to the difference between Link and Toon Link's down Aerials, with the B version of the move being more like Toon Link, Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers etc, but the Aerial one being more like Link's.
B^: Owl - Many people would know this mechanic from Super Mario 64 but it actually originates in Wario Land 2. Wario could use an Owl for aerial transport. However, it's hard to control. Similar to Snake's.

His forward throw would be the power throw from Wario Land 2 and 3, with the swing ding moved to his back throw. And change his running animation. Looks silly, doesn't make any sense that he's like that when he's appeared alongside Mario and the others as man of relatively normal movement so many times.

Also, I know this is a long shot, but I'd really like to see Captain Syrup as a playable character. I will maintain as long as I live that Wario Land 2 is the best platformer I have ever played, she's one of very few female antagonists from Nintendo's games, and would have an interesting moveset based on things she did in the Wario Land series (more specifically 1, 2 and Shake Dimension.) Let's face it, the game could do with more women to balance out the roster a bit.

 

[Spinosaurus]

There's a lack of Wario Land 4 in that moveset. That game had the best controlling Wario! (It's also the best Wario game imo.)

I really don't think we should have a completely Land-based moveset though and ignore Wario World and Warioware. Even his current moveset has Wario World nods (jab, fthrow, up B...hell I think his standard B is from Wario World.). Speaking of which, I think his up B is fine as it is. The owl is way too obscure, and it'd be strange for Wario to just randomly get an owl and use it to fly. Best choice for a Land-based Up B would be puff Wario or Jet Hat Wario, preferably puff Wario though. Gotta have one of his power ups.

If Wario does get a shoulder bash in the next game though (and hopefully he does), I hope he can also crouch cancel it. That's the best thing about the shoulder bash in Wario Land 2-4. (Why did Shake It get rid of it?)

But seriously let's not get rid of the bike. It's far too iconic to the character.

I wouldn't say MORE than the shoulder bash.

But AFTER the shoulder, it's probably his most iconic feature.

I did say "arguably". Though, Warioware is the better selling and more popular series, and in those games the bike is a huge part of the character.

I also really don't get why the shoulder bash is what's iconic. The ability to pick up enemies and use them to solve puzzles/beat other enemies is what sets Wario Land apart from other platformers, and that ability is utilized far more in the games. Except in WL1, because enemies are actually dangerous but it's a more traditional paltformer.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Wario has a high chance of returning because he was in Sakurai's drawing.

On side note, should this discussion merge into Wario's sub-forum in Unconfirmed Veterans?

 

[Krynxe]

There isn't a Wario sub-forum, just a Wario thread (which this discussion should have taken in, but it's not worth merging the threads.)

This is being relocated to the Character Discussion boards though

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't see the reason for having two Wario threads, so I've merged them together.

 

[Darth Shard]

Does WarioWare actually sell better than Wario Land? I don't have any numbers on hand, but I can't think of a single person I know that owns a WarioWare game (to be fair, I might not be the target age audience for the series). Wario Land was one of my favorite handheld series growing up. The number of times my siblings and I have played WL3 is uncountable, and when we lost our copy of WL4, I was heartbroken. I greatly prefer the Project M incarnation of Wario, which seems to hold more true to his roots.

To be fair, I've always been a bit of a biased nostalgiafag about Classic Wario vs. WarioWare. What does SmashBoards think? Does there exist a poll on this subject?

 

[Spinosaurus]

If Wikipedia is anything to go by, yeah. The only Wario Land games to hit a million (but not even near 2 mill) are the first Wario Land and Wario Land 4. They're sorta niche, unfortunately.
Of course that's not counting the virtual console release. I believe the first Wario Land 1 is in top 10 of best selling VC game on the 3DS eShop.

Anyhow, Warioware is pretty big, yes. With the the exception of D.I.Y, I believed all of them sold well enough, certainly more than Wario Land. It helps the series was actually marketed well, so it's not unfamiliar to the casual audience. Speaking of which, Touched and Smooth Moves were great early showcases to their respective system (DS and Wii) and sold the most, so they hold that regard.

Have you played a Warioware game, by the way? Touched! aside, they're all fantastic games. Warioware Inc and Twisted in particular are better than any other Wario game save for Wario Land 4, and this is coming from someone who considers Wario Land his favorite video game series.

 

[Darth Shard]

...this is coming from someone who considers Wario Land his favorite video game series.

That's pretty convincing. I think I have dabbled with a few titles at Best Buy before, but I haven't ever really sat down to play them. I will say that I was pretty hyped the first time I saw the trailer for Game & Wario! Maybe it's about time I explored them... I just love Wario the treasure hunter so much! Those games are fun as hell.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Oh, Game & Wario isn't a Warioware title at all actually. It's pretty much a minigame collect that have nothing to do with the actual Warioware games except for the Warioware cast and the "gamer" mini-game being essentially a collection of microgames. (which is the most popular, unironically). I can't speak for its quality since I haven't played it yet.

The original Warioware on the GBA (or the gamecube port) is the best introduction to the series and the most simple one. (as in, there's no gimmicks like Touched! with the touch screen or Twisted's gyro. Just buttons.) It's pretty cheap to get online too so I highly recommend it! There are some subtle, but appreciated Wario Land nods too in that game as well, particularly Wario Land 4.

By the way, just in case, Warioware games appear to be so short, but in reality they have so much content that could last you for god knows how long. They're made for subsequent playthroughs, but that's what also why they're incredibly fun.

 

[Darth Shard]

I'll keep your advice in mind, thanks!

 

[smashbro29]

How did he **** up Wario's moveset? Wasn't it Project M that screwed up Wario in the 2.1 demo?

It's pretty much the best thing you can get out of Warioware Wario. Well, the fart was out of nowhere, but the dude's obsessed with garlic so it's a nice detail. It's near perfect if you ignore Wario Land.

But you shouldn't, there definitely needs to a balance for both series for his moveset. Keep the bike, though, why the hell would you wanna get rid of something arguably as iconic to him as the shoulder dash, if not more?

What you're ignoring is that in WarioWare other than drive a motorcycle there is nothing to work with, meanwhile Land/World is sitting on tons of moves they just flat out ignored or used badly.

 

[HarryTheChin]

I'd prefer it if Wario's default skin in SSB4 be his classic 'Yellow' suit and overalls.

The only reason I'd want this is so that Waluigi has more of a chance in showing up.

Red, Green, Yellow, and Purple.

It'll complete the Mario Quad!

 

[Johnknight1]

America is full of paranoid idiots, so I'm used to the paranoia.

Hopefully he plays that and realizes how badly he ****ed up the moveset in Brawl.

I actually liked the Brawl moveset, but man, that bike was stupid. It served little purpose, and the purpose it did serve it would be better served with the shoulder bash, because the shoulder bash is awesome!!! It's such an awesome and unique offensive tool that really makes the game more exciting.

To be fair, I've always been a bit of a biased nostalgia*** about Classic Wario vs. WarioWare. What does SmashBoards think? Does there exist a poll on this subject?

Some people like Wario Ware, but a few of us LOVE Wario Land. Obviously the Wario Land moveset would be better, but seeing as how Sakurai openly admitted he's not a Wario Land fan but he is a Wario Ware fan, that's sadly one of the few Sakurai biases that takes smash down a notch.

 

[Darth Shard]

...but seeing as how Sakurai openly admitted he's not a Wario Land fan but he is a Wario Ware fan, that's sadly one of the few Sakurai biases that takes smash down a notch.

Aww that's a bummer. How could anyone not like Wario Land? :/

 

[HarryTheChin]

Aww that's a bummer. How could anyone not like Wario Land? :/

Because it is not called "Waluigi Land"

:3

 

[Maffewt]

Prior to the announcement of Brawl, did people expect Wario to be based so heavily on WarioWare?
or was everyone expecting more Wario Land-orientated?
Or a mix of both?

 

[JabbatheHutt]

I'd prefer it if Wario's default skin in SSB4 be his classic 'Yellow' suit and overalls.

The only reason I'd want this is so that Waluigi has more of a chance in showing up.

Red, Green, Yellow, and Purple.

It'll complete the Mario Quad!

The complete mario "quad" is Mario and Luigi.
Wario is seprate. Hes unique. Since waluigi's introduction, Wario's uniquness has been nurfed. I love that in Brawl his default is the Wario Ware outfit, it separates him from Mario and makes him his own unique character. The secondary costume's a great touch tho.

Waluigi has no chance.. He was cut before Daisy in MK7. Daisy's got a better shot.

 

[Spinosaurus]

What you're ignoring is that in WarioWare other than drive a motorcycle there is nothing to work with, meanwhile Land/World is sitting on tons of moves they just flat out ignored or used badly.

The obvious thing to do is to use the various microgames in Warioware a reference for his moveset, but frankly I'm glad they didn't go with that. A completely original moveset (or perhaps not so completely), but still exactly captures Wario's greedy, flawed and dastardly personality and Warioware's silliness is the perfect 100% Warioware representation. Except the fart. That can go.

Wario Land moveset does not complement Warioware Wario, which is what Brawl was going for. And honestly, what was there from Wario Land to bring aside from the shoulder bash and the butt stomp to Brawl? We already got one of them (albeit functioned very differently), but aside from those there was the arguably more important enemy pick up and also Wario Land 4's sprint headbutt move thing but how'd they work in the context of Smash? I'm drawing blanks. Wario World has a lot to bring but there are already obvious nods in Wario's current moveset. And honestly nobody cared for Wario World, sadly. lol It is a very average game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still dreaming of the day I get to pick up petty fools like they are some measly play ball and throw them into their inevitable doom in Smash.

I actually liked the Brawl moveset, but man, that bike was stupid. It served little purpose, and the purpose it did serve it would be better served with the shoulder bash, because the shoulder bash is awesome!!! It's such an awesome and unique offensive tool that really makes the game more exciting.

Not only is the bike an integral part of the character, but it also shaped up Wario's meta game and was the reason he was the third best character for a while, and it gave him a recovery option to the point he's consider to have one of the best recoveries. The bike was a unique move that only Wario had access to. Keep it.

I will not miss the fart though, as long as he gets another reliable way to KO...if the fart was even reliable at all.

 

[UnSaxon51]

Prior to the announcement of Brawl, did people expect Wario to be based so heavily on WarioWare?
or was everyone expecting more Wario Land-orientated?
Or a mix of both?

Honestly, I didn't know what I expected from Wario. I guess I figured he'd be mostly the Ware version based on his outfit and the bike, but the only move I was really expecting to see was the shoulder bash.

 

[HarryTheChin]

Waluigi has no chance.

LIES. You just have to BELIEVE.

:3

 

[CalumG]

I'll agree with most of what's been said in this thread - Wario should definitely be more inspired by his Wario Land incarnation (though I do love the WarioWare outfit style). Off the top of my head it'd be nice to see a Wario Land inspired Dash Attack, his side-B bike replaced with the Charge/Shoulder attack from Wario Land, and as somebody mentioned earlier, it'd fit Wario to a tee if he were able to pick up and carry around characters like DK can.

I'm not suggesting all of this out of a misplaced sense of nostalgia for the Wario Land series - I've only played 3, 4 and Shake It, and I didn't even enjoy Shake It - but out of simple logic when it comes to designing a Smash Bros. character. When people see their favourite character (or an iconic one at the least), they have certain expectations about that character, especially if that character has been playable numerous times (as opposed to characters like Bowser who are primarily NPC's). You think of Mario and you think of a character with good mobility, good jumps, fireballs, etc. When you think of Link, you think of a few iconic moves like the Spin Attack. If you play as Samus you expect a good projectile game, with Sonic you expect lots of speed and lots of rolling, with Olimar you expect to be throwing plenty of Pikmin around, with Yoshi you expect him to bring his tongue out and have a flutter jump, and so on.

We have these expectations because we've already played as these characters before, so we expect that they'll carry these fundamental traits over to Smash Bros., even if they are heavily adapted to match the format. Wario absolutely betrayed our expectations on how he should play - and although surprises in Smash are mostly good, this was not a clever move on Sakurai's part. The easiest way to sum it up is this; why would Sakurai base Wario's playstyle off of a game where Wario isn't even playable? They had dozens of moves and ideas to work with regarding a playable Wario that fans of Wario would be familiar with, but they completely betrayed them in the interest of basing Wario around his more recent games despite not even being a playable character in them, in the traditional sense at least.

I love the WarioWare games (moreso than the Land series) but even to those of you who dislike Wario Land, it shouldn't be hard to see the absolute hole in Sakurai's logic when he came around to making Wario's moveset. At the end of the day, a character should be based more on their playable appearances than their non-playable appearances when possible - that seems like one of the most obvious possible guidelines for implementing a character into Smash, yet it was blatantly and unashamedly ignored with Wario.