Wario Q&A Thread

[DMG]

Why AREN'T we the fastest mashers besides like Ness Lucas players rofl

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Why AREN'T we the fastest mashers besides like Ness Lucas players rofl

I am, though.

 

[BPx]

With a general understanding of how many inputs it takes to break out at different percentages

where do i find?

 

[BPx]

Why AREN'T we the fastest mashers besides like Ness Lucas players rofl

same reason we don't all know the chain grab... lol


and sorry for the double post, accident i sware

 

[TheReflexWonder]

where do i find?

I'm sure there's a thread about it somewhere, but, I learned it through experience. I started to realize roughly how long it would normally take for me to break out of a grab at different percents, and I compare someone else's mashing speed to my own based on sound. Granted, it's possible to mash without making a ton of noise, but, listening out for it works well for me.

 

[PieDisliker]

I'm not so comfortable about mashing because my control stick is starting to wear out.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not so comfortable about mashing because my control stick is starting to wear out.

See? I'll pummel this guy a bunch.

 

[PieDisliker]

That doesn't stop me from mashing vs Dedede or grab releases near SV's platform, though.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The secret is to already be mashing as you get grabbed. It's easier to mash after you make a mistake that probably will lead to a grab, than visually confirm you got grabbed and THEN go panic mode.

Whether to pummel or not depends on the player and the % they are at. I don't pummel players that mash/get out quick. However, certain players "don't care" or are more focused on DI/other aspects after the throw that they don't mash out. These people you can pummel 1-2 times even at low %.

Man that's some good advice. I never knew why people mashed out so got damn quickly. Hopefully it'll help when I get grabbed at low percentages against IC's.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Man that's some good advice. I never knew why people mashed out so got damn quickly. Hopefully it'll help when I get grabbed at low percentages against IC's.

Unless they get a clean standing grab, it most certainly will.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Couple questions.

Can I get some general tips on tire control? Also is there some way to control which directions my tires go after breaking my bike, or is it completely random? I'm just sick of getting the bike out only to have them fly offstage where I can't get them :/

What are generally considered Wario's really bad (like -2 and worse) MUs?

Who can't air release us on a flat platform?

 

[Labernash]

Tires, a good way to start is to throw them down and catch them with an aerial. Also, U-Tilt makes atleast one of the tires stay fairly close to you. I think clap does too. Read this. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295116

Bad MU's are Peach, Marth, D3, and MK. It's debated on which two are the worst.

Air release, I don't know everyone, but I know you can Perfect Sheild anything from Yoshi if you land on BF platform just right. I know Ike can hit through those platforms, but not sure about everyone.

 

[BPx]

Practice using tires, it'll make you better.
uh, pretty sure theres a way that the tires go, people haven't learned it yet tho(or can't fully explain)
every matchup is 50:50(except metaknight, its clearly unwinnable)
uh, dono, test it out and get back to me, i wanna know

hope this helps

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So in other words, with MK gone Wario is a really good secondary for a Dedede main? I like that.

I've also been working on the aerial thing. Also trapping with a tire -> grab, having them take a bunch of damage from the tire when I pummel and then throw seems like it'd be pretty good.

 

[BPx]

Wario +4s everyone in the game, l000000000000000000000000l

 

[PieDisliker]

Wario's a great character for D3 mains to second. Most D3 mains or ex-D3 mains out there use Wario somewhat.

 

[Labernash]

So in other words, with MK gone Wario is a really good secondary for a Dedede main? I like that.

I've also been working on the aerial thing. Also trapping with a tire -> grab, having them take a bunch of damage from the tire when I pummel and then throw seems like it'd be pretty good.

The tire only deals damage to on character once per throw. In other words, when you grab him, he'll get hit with the tire once, then the tire will bounce through him. You should only pummel people once regardless, the tire just makes it seem as if you pummeled once or twice more. What IS handy, is throw down tire in the air, land and grab, D-throw, he gets hit with the tire and gets pushed back towards you, F-smash or Waft. I do this a lot. Kinda makes the kill easier, but it looks SHEXSY!!!!

 

[brningpyre]

Air release, I don't know everyone, but I know you can Perfect Sheild anything from Yoshi if you land on BF platform just right. I know Ike can hit through those platforms, but not sure about everyone.

Marth can get you with an up-tilt (after grab release to platform) on every stage except for Smashville, and certain angles on Yoshi's. He can stutter-step f-smash when there's no platform to save you, and it's a tipper to boot.

 

[Labernash]

^^^ sucks.

I got a question: how do I approach Falco? I'm getting half decent with the chain grab, but my problem is getting him to 50% and NOT taking 150% myself. No idea what to do to fight him. I have a harder time with Falco than I do with D3 or MK.

 

[Lord Chair]

you dont approach him, you force him to commit to options that are punishable

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Basically, watch what he does when you get somewhat near him. Is he gonna Phantasm? You can read it and put yourself in a position where he has to make a split decision afterward. Will he continue to shorthop laser to punish your indecision? Tap him with F-Air, Dash Attack, or DACUS (so that only the end portion hits) before he gets to low-laser height. Will he spotdodge? You could N-Air or D-Air to beat it while being able to follow up afterward. You have to feel him out.

If he tries to Jab or F-Tilt from far away, you can space an F-Tilt or F-Smash (sometimes F-Air). You'll often lose that battle, but, when you win, you get a much larger payoff that makes it worth it. If he does it up-close, you should be able to DI up (and maybe behind him) to do an aerial. N-Air is for beating offensive options and just generally being fast and stuff. U-Air pushes him away if he shields and deals the most damage.

 

[Labernash]

you dont approach him, you force him to commit to options that are punishable

So I camp close to him for pressure? Which options are punishable and which options should I not even try?

Basically, watch what he does when you get somewhat near him. Is he gonna Phantasm? You can read it and put yourself in a position where he has to make a split decision afterward. Will he continue to shorthop laser to punish your indecision? Tap him with F-Air, Dash Attack, or DACUS (so that only the end portion hits) before he gets to low-laser height. Will he spotdodge? You could N-Air or D-Air to beat it while being able to follow up afterward. You have to feel him out.

If he tries to Jab or F-Tilt from far away, you can space an F-Tilt or F-Smash (sometimes F-Air). You'll often lose that battle, but, when you win, you get a much larger payoff that makes it worth it. If he does it up-close, you should be able to DI up (and maybe behind him) to do an aerial. N-Air is for beating offensive options and just generally being fast and stuff. U-Air pushes him away if he shields and deals the most damage.

So, try and avoid lasers to make him try something else, then read and punish? And as far as getting close to him, should I Air dodge Double Jump through his lasers and come back ontop of him, empty short hop under his lasers and get close? Also, what should I do if he's sheilding? I get shield grabbed a lot more often against Falcos than other characters.



Thanks for the help guys; much appreciated. =)

 

[SSGuy]

@Chair

I would expect Falco to just shoot lasers until Wario is at ungodly percents. Falco has a hard time killing Wario so I don't see him throwing out moves like Usmash or FSmash when Wario is around 120%. Plus one Good Wario combo can lead to death for Falco. I expect Falco to just camp the whole match.

@Labernash

When your zoning Falco and you notice he is putting his shield up expecting dair or fair, you can punish with bite. Never panic when Falco has Wario at dumb percents. Falco can put a lot damage on Wario but he has a hard time killing Wario while Wario doesn't have that problem killing him.


Speaking of Falco,

Would you consider Final Destination against Falco to be a good idea? Falco doesn't really have any grab releases to threat Wario with and Falco's recovery is extremely limited here. Wario already punishes the hell out of Falco's side B so I feel having no platforms helps limit Wario.

My matches normally go to Smashville now but Is FD really the ideal ban for Falco's cp? What is the best stage to ban? I feel that FD is good for Wario in the Falco match up.

At Battlefield, Falco is usually gonna camp under the platforms and use Nair. What can I do to punish this?

 

[Lord Chair]

reflex basically said what i wouldve said if i wouldve explained myself

dont go fd against falco, always ban FD against every person in the world if you plan on going 100% wario

falco having a lead on BF is OP and you cant do anything realistically

I would expect Falco to just shoot lasers until Wario is at ungodly percents. Falco has a hard time killing Wario so I don't see him throwing out moves like Usmash or FSmash when Wario is around 120%. Plus one Good Wario combo can lead to death for Falco. I expect Falco to just camp the whole match.

I have no idea why that's directed at me.

Falco cannot kill Wario without taking risks. Getting you to 170+ gives him the opportunity to throw stuff out that is not necessarily risky, though. If you get at the point on which his bair starts killing, your approach options are extremely limited in such a way that you'll inevitably get hit. If you have the lead that is no problem, if you don't have the lead then being at a high percentage means you'll face inevitable death eventually because all of your approaches are beaten by bair.

edit: Falco doesn't have to shield against Wario and he shouldn't.
edit2: If you DJ too high when you have him cornered he can just phantasm back to stage control.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

For FD it depends most Wario's don't like that stage however I believe krystedez likes that stage against Falco. I like SV personally and you have plenty of CP's to take him too.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I have no idea what your supposed to do against a Snake that just sits there and platform camps with Nades. It's annoying to get inside. Do I use more tires or...? I usually use Dedede for this MU but I just want to get a basic idea of what to do in scenarios like this. I was playing a friend of BF and he just ran away the whole time. How do I prevent this when he has the lead?

 

[PieDisliker]

I think you might be able to apply some pressure by throwing nades back at him. I don't do it but I think people should do that more often against Snake, and I think I should do that as well.

Although if he doesn't throw nades at you it gets tricky. Baiting isn't exactly easy because of all the range he has.

 

[Hyper]

Wouldn't that work more against us?
Like:

The nade would hit us, giving us additional damage
He shield drops the nade we're holding, giving us barely enough time to escape before it blows up
We actually get time to throw one back, he just shields.

Although I probably shouldn't be the one talking.

 

[SSGuy]

Wario's throwing speed isn't that impressive either.

 

[Tesh]

Is there some more legit way to get around really good jabs? Usually when a character like Falco or someone is spamming jab @ me, I bike into them, but I've been told this is horribly bad offline so I could use some ideas.

 

[DMG]

You can eat the jab on purpose and SDI it someplace. Most people don't react quick enough to spot that and on the fly properly address it. Ideally, SDI it somewhere that "normal" followups fail to get you. Like grab or Snake Ftilt or Falco's whatever. Then if you're still airborne, do an aerial. If you SDI it grounded say behind them, then turn around grab/bite/etc.

Doesn't work on every character or every jab spacing. BUT it's definitely doable and can give you an edge over people using that specifically to space vs you or "first line defense".

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Yo see throwing the Grenades back is not that effective against someone who is just spamming them because they will just Grenade Strip them and they'll just fall in place. And then Wario's throwing speed is like as slow as D3's so that's not that helpful. And then they lob them its annoying as well. I mean I sometimes just rush in but having to do so grounded is like a giant handicap. Maybe I need more tires.

 

[Lord Chair]

Tires don't counter nades.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have no idea what your supposed to do against a Snake that just sits there and platform camps with Nades. It's annoying to get inside. Do I use more tires or...? I usually use Dedede for this MU but I just want to get a basic idea of what to do in scenarios like this. I was playing a friend of BF and he just ran away the whole time. How do I prevent this when he has the lead?

You gotta play patient if you've lost the lead you're forced to approach. Too much aggression is a bad thing. Then you must take into account how he's throwing the nades. When you see the patterns in what he's doing with his nades you can approach. Once you attempt to get in close what does he do ? Dacus at ? Utilt(depending on distance)? Ftilt(distance) pivot grab? Or jump away? Does he have any other explosives on the stage? If so where are they at?

Once you navigate through the maze of explosives and start to pick up on what he's doing you gotta bait him to do something that you can punish. Or you can get a pretty good read on him since you've picked up on what's he doing. Bad/ Reckless approaches will get you wrecked.

 

[Tesh]

You can eat the jab on purpose and SDI it someplace. Most people don't react quick enough to spot that and on the fly properly address it. Ideally, SDI it somewhere that "normal" followups fail to get you. Like grab or Snake Ftilt or Falco's whatever. Then if you're still airborne, do an aerial. If you SDI it grounded say behind them, then turn around grab/bite/etc.

Doesn't work on every character or every jab spacing. BUT it's definitely doable and can give you an edge over people using that specifically to space vs you or "first line defense".

When is it okay to Bike? I like being able to rush people down from a low angle but Wario's dash is so slow (compared to what I'm used to I guess) and Dacus isn't much to my liking.

This match kind of shows how I like to use bike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afOJ8OV7lMc

Sometimes to punish landings and sometimes I use it to try to beat ground attacks that kind of just hit the bike but not me like 0:35. I'm a little confused though, because sometimes Bike's hitbox is gone if I've already hit something like at 1:03 I Bike at his run away blaster and i just go through him. Then at 1:19 (yea i bike too much maybe) I hit one of his attack and then his shield.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Tires don't counter nades.

I would appreciate if you did not respond with useless one-liners or not respond at all. Not to sound like a **** or anything but if someone asks a legitimate question, it's fairly rude to respond in the way that you did. Not to say you did it to be rude but still.


@Almost: I do look into those things however, it seems like good Snakes know how to patch up holes in their defenses/ not have a obvious, finite pattern. I mean vs on BF isn't a scenario I'm going to willingly let happen...ever. But still just wanna know.Those are good things to keep in mind though. Maybe its just a matter of keeping my eyes totally open then.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I would appreciate if you did not respond with useless one-liners or not respond at all. Not to sound like a **** or anything but if someone asks a legitimate question, it's fairly rude to respond in the way that you did. Not to say you did it to be rude but still.


@Almost: I do look into those things however, it seems like good Snakes know how to patch up holes in their defenses/ not have a obvious, finite pattern. I mean vs on BF isn't a scenario I'm going to willingly let happen...ever. But still just wanna know.Those are good things to keep in mind though. Maybe its just a matter of keeping my eyes totally open then.

Yeah man the MU becomes different. I don't think BF is horrible but you gotta keep in mind when you're behind and when you're ahead. If you playing from ahead then it becomes different. Also you can get a read on everyone I know that the punishment is going to be few and far in between however, when the opportunity for punishing comes up you gotta take it. Also being able to punish things that another player feels is safe goes a long way to help you open people up. Pick & choose your spots than go ham.

Also you should know snake extremely well just think about the stuff you used to do against Wario remember the spacing and stuff and make it happen.

 

[PieDisliker]

I actually like to use the bike a lot. Sometimes I find it's more useful than DACUS only because of the Super Armor. It's slow, predictable, and very punishable, but I like the fact that it eats projectiles. I find it helpful vs Lucario, ZSS, and even against Luigi's fireballs.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Lord Chair]

I would appreciate if you did not respond with useless one-liners or not respond at all. Not to sound like a **** or anything but if someone asks a legitimate question, it's fairly rude to respond in the way that you did. Not to say you did it to be rude but still.

Rofl.

No seriously. You ask if something works I'd say that a yes or no would suffice, it takes almost no effort for you to ask me to elaborate if you really care as much.

Q&A is supposed to be clear. If you don't ask for a specific elaboration then I can't be bothered with giving one. Tires don't work against nades, that's my statement. Elaborating on it would take a lot of time and if you aren't necessarily interested in the hows or whys then I'd just be wasting my time.

You asked a legitimate Q and I gave you a legitimate A. Don't say I'm being a ***** about something if I'm just thinking economically. If I'd wholly answer every question in this thread it'd take a full workweek to keep my contribution to this thread ongoing.

Oh by the way, you didn't even ask a question regarding the tires vs nades. You simply stated 'perhaps I need to use more tires', it didn't even warrant an answer in the first place.

At any case whatever, if you don't want to read my comments then feel free to ignore them.