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Wario Q&A Thread

GOL | 482 | JSalt

The Folse Deity
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I would say go wario and run away hard on rainbow. Or go mk. Falco's not too good on rainbow. You can always ban rainbow as well.
Ban rainbow, and he'll bring me to Delfino.

How does someone CP a Wario player to RC...I am confused man seriously. You better start timing him out seriously and make him respect your camping.
When you're as good as Lee, you can do that. I'm gonna time him out for real next time, that's all I can really do.

So I would never fight on the boat against d3, i feel like he can wall all of our approaches there better than usual(though you could sneak in with a bite, if anything)... i'm not sure if this would ever get you dq'd, but just theorycrafting i'd use the unspeakable technique to get past the boat stage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NYvJJ-_Vw), then just abuse bike jump(while making sure your bike doesn't get caught on a platform on the way up(always bike right). if you're above d3, you should always have an advantage. fart when its up,and just be patient. d3 is like a boss fight, you can only screw up so many times before you get killed (or infinited or walked off)
Good analogy, you really have to eliminate all mistakes to win. I kinda marathon'd through losers bracket, I should pace myself better to stay on my A-game.

On the boat, he just bair walls all day so that if I mess up, I get infinited. If I pull out tires, he just bairs them. At any other part, he runs away with bairs to outprioritize/beat out anything I got. It's hard to find 2 moments I can waft him, much less 3 AND hit them all. I do use the technique right after the pendulum, where you go under the checkered box and bike and jump to the platform before the boat comes back.
 

BPx

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yeah, i think that stage is good for the mu if you can just glitch out the boat part. i haven't actually done it in tourney cause i never play d3s, but it seems more viable than trying to do anything on that boat....
 

xzx

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I need help with the irritating Falco MU!

His lasers make me approach, or else I am getting hit by them and my damage increases. If I camp him, and try to get some tires, I am in the risk of getting lasers on me and maybe getting chain-grabbed to off-stage kill. But when I get my tires, they are useless since he can just reflect them. So I HAVE to approach.

But when I am approaching him, I just can't come in in his range, since he is knocking me of with up-tilt and nair. And when I try to approach him again, it results always me getting chain-grabbed somehow.

This is so frustrating, how can I approach him safely and not almost always getting grabbed/out-spaced? (Also, is Falco's hands not hurtboxes? Because it seems that I always get hit and not Falco...)

Please, I hate this MU! I need help! =(
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I need help with the irritating Falco MU!

His lasers make me approach, or else I am getting hit by them and my damage increases. If I camp him, and try to get some tires, I am in the risk of getting lasers on me and maybe getting chain-grabbed to off-stage kill. But when I get my tires, they are useless since he can just reflect them. So I HAVE to approach.

But when I am approaching him, I just can't come in in his range, since he is knocking me of with up-tilt and nair. And when I try to approach him again, it results always me getting chain-grabbed somehow.

This is so frustrating, how can I approach him safely and not almost always getting grabbed/out-spaced? (Also, is Falco's hands not hurtboxes? Because it seems that I always get hit and not Falco...)

Please, I hate this MU! I need help! =(
You need to work on your spacing and get a feel for falco's grab range and avoid it. You also need to be able to mix up your approaches and not become predictable. Getting grabbed isn't the end of the world but it puts you in really bad spots and gives falco a lot of damage early on so I'd avoid it. If you platform camp Falco his laser game shouldn't touch you. Also if you don't know the CG on falco I suggest you learn it.
 

xzx

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It feels like the only good spacing tools against Falco is dair and nair! =/ I always get grabbed somehow. And the CG on Falco would be a great revange but it is so hard to perform! =(

But I guess I'll just practice enough. Thanks for the help! =)
 

-LzR-

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Not Wario specific, but you should really play super safe while you are at cg %. It's not worth it to get 50% for no good reason.
Falco can't keep you out when you get in, you are just too fast. Constantly pressure him. If you hold a tire and he is stupid enough to use reflector, just bite him, it's that simple.
If you still can't do ****, you're just worse than the Falco player.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Not Wario specific, but you should really play super safe while you are at cg %. It's not worth it to get 50% for no good reason.
Falco can't keep you out when you get in, you are just too fast. Constantly pressure him. If you hold a tire and he is stupid enough to use reflector, just bite him, it's that simple.
If you still can't do ****, you're just worse than the Falco player.
Falco's U-Tilt beats most of our aerial approaches, and B-Air is quite safe. It's not incredibly easy to keep pressure.

Wario does have to be careful and quite patient, though. Wait for him to make a mistake like Warios do. Force that mistake.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Each Dthrow stales itself progressively further and further, which tends to offset the naturally increased distance someone travels away from Wario's Dthrow as their damage goes up, effectively "trapping" them in a place where they can get regrabbed for awhile.
 

TheReflexWonder

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You know what would be worth looking into? How do the chaingrab percents change if we have D-Throw staled once before we start it? That could give D-Throw a use at lower percents.
 

-LzR-

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Falco's U-Tilt beats most of our aerial approaches, and B-Air is quite safe. It's not incredibly easy to keep pressure.

Wario does have to be careful and quite patient, though. Wait for him to make a mistake like Warios do. Force that mistake.
My bad, I only play against Warios, but don't use him myself. Shouldn't you generally try to be near Falco, but no jab near, but not phantasm far?
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Falco's U-Tilt beats most of our aerial approaches, and B-Air is quite safe. It's not incredibly easy to keep pressure.

Wario does have to be careful and quite patient, though. Wait for him to make a mistake like Warios do. Force that mistake.
Just decided to bold this and quote it just because it rings so true.
 

DMG

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Reflex: it goes both ways though. If Dthrow is overly staled, what tends to happen is the other person gets to land quicker, and the CG stops working. The other is that when they land, their body "slides" away further. I'm trying to think of an analogy to it: maybe rock skipping. It's the difference between dropping a rock vertically and coming in at an angle. You're more likely to skip or slide away that way than if you can in straighter down.

Either way, having an overly stale Dthrow can be a disadvantage too because of this.
 

Labernash

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It has to be stalled before 70 something percent. Which works perfect if you start the CG at 53ish percent.

But, I wonder, could pummeling effect how long it lasts?
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Pummeling is not advised because it lets them break out if they mash, and it tacks on damage
 

TheReflexWonder

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Reflex: it goes both ways though. If Dthrow is overly staled, what tends to happen is the other person gets to land quicker, and the CG stops working. The other is that when they land, their body "slides" away further. I'm trying to think of an analogy to it: maybe rock skipping. It's the difference between dropping a rock vertically and coming in at an angle. You're more likely to skip or slide away that way than if you can in straighter down.

Either way, having an overly stale Dthrow can be a disadvantage too because of this.
That's true, but I know that some Falcos I've played will get more aggressive when they're past the normal chaingrab percent, so I figured it would be worth looking into, so that you can pull it out later than expected.
 

DMG

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If the Dthrow is stale, you definitely can still CG them later on, you just aren't gonna find any "earlier" CG opportunities with stales Dthrow. Staler Dthrow only guarantees the CG later, not earlier.
 

BryE

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Random question, but what do you guys think about the learning curve of playing with Wario?

I tried to play with him at one point but I can't seem to understand his play style. It's sorta weird to me. :[
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Random question, but what do you guys think about the learning curve of playing with Wario?

I tried to play with him at one point but I can't seem to understand his play style. It's sorta weird to me. :[
His learning curve is prob different for everyone. If you can get a handle on him then I sugges you check out the guides.
 

PieDisliker

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Random question, but what do you guys think about the learning curve of playing with Wario?

I tried to play with him at one point but I can't seem to understand his play style. It's sorta weird to me. :[
It's very difficult for some people. For me, it was incredibly hard to learn how to use him. Watch a lot of videos and use him a lot, and you should form a playstyle. If you aren't using all of his aerials you're doing it wrong, though.
 

Kaffei

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Random question, but what do you guys think about the learning curve of playing with Wario?

I tried to play with him at one point but I can't seem to understand his play style. It's sorta weird to me. :[
If u have like a troll *** attitude i think it's fairly easy lolollolo
 

jbandrew

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Um... so like, theres a tip that a good friend of mine who recently picked up wario gave me. (amazing since he's only been playing for 3 weeks). He said, imagine that there's a circle right near the top of the face of your opponent. When pressuring, you want to stay in that circle, because they feel threatened. So this works for baiting and pressuring alike.

That was the best advice I've heard in probably ever when it comes to wario. I then proceeded to beat my friends snake 3-0 before dropping a match. Before that, I would probably lose.

Thoughts? comments?
 

Kaffei

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i do something like that but instead of a circle i use the opponent's hitboxes as reference.. but my mix up game sux so yea..
but that's good advice imo lol


BTW i have a Wario question.. Is uair to spot dodge safe on shield or something? I've seen Glutonny do this and I'm not sure how the fk he didn't get shield grabbed after the uair hits the shield
He does it here at 3:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDls5DVcUKE

Someone please explain that lmao
 

DMG

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Ally didn't buffer/shield grab quick enough. In that scenario, you can get shield grabbed. The spacing you have to have on Uair is basically your *** is already touching the ground when Uair comes out lol.

1. If you use Uair and don't fast fall, easy to punish.

2. If you use Uair too high up, easy to punish regardless.

3. You have to use it low as possible, and be fast falling, for it to be safe. Unless you use it at a near frame perfect level
 

Lord Chair

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obv doing it perfectly means youre not doing anything until youre almost touching the ground, leaving you vulnerable to pretty much everything in existence during the execution
 

BryE

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I'll probably work on my Wario for upcoming tournaments. Like I said, I used him before but he seems extremely hard to play effectively with.

I'm just tired of having my Link shut down by higher tiers and I would like to use an unique character for a change. My other choices/options I would like to use when it comes to competing in tournaments are:

Sheik
Ike
Wolf
Fox
Kirby
Pikachu


These are basically my "good" characters that I can use somewhat decently. I would really like to improve on my Sheik, Fox, and Kirby metagame however. But as for Link, I'm afraid I'm going to have to continue practicing with him until I feel that he is good enough for competing in other tournaments.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I'll probably work on my Wario for upcoming tournaments. Like I said, I used him before but he seems extremely hard to play effectively with.

I'm just tired of having my Link shut down by higher tiers and I would like to use an unique character for a change. My other choices/options I would like to use when it comes to competing in tournaments are:

Sheik
Ike
Wolf
Fox
Kirby
Pikachu


These are basically my "good" characters that I can use somewhat decently. I would really like to improve on my Sheik, Fox, and Kirby metagame however. But as for Link, I'm afraid I'm going to have to continue practicing with him until I feel that he is good enough for competing in other tournaments.
You can compete with low tiers it's extremely hard to compete with low tiers though. Since more than likely you're going in at a disadvantage. Knowing this you not only need to know your character well but also your opponents characters well and be able to punish things and get good reads. A pro to for playing low tiers is that the majority of high tier players won't bother learning the MU so you're going to have to use that to your advantage.

However, with a character like link it's an extremely hard/up hill battle and IDK if it's worth putting the time and dedication into a character like that. You can do it if you want but I feel as though it will pay off more if you put the same amount of time and dedication into a high tier character it'd be more rewarding.

With out having seen you play I really can't tell you what character you should go with but you should more than likely narrow your character selection down and try to stick to 1-2 characters maybe 3. However, with all that said at the end of the day you gotta go with the character you're most comfortable with and the character who's playstyle you feel as though fits you the most. For the characters you listed I would probably go with Pika or Kirby. Out of the characters you've listed their the best characters and are pretty easy to pick up and they both do pretty decently with their MU's.
 

Kaffei

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How the hell do I fight Olimar
**** this piece of **** *** captain bald slanty eye mother fker
 

BPx

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How the hell do I fight Olimar
**** this piece of **** *** captain bald slanty eye mother fker
first you nair, then you nair again, then you keep nairing

(more to it than this, but i'm doing hw. will post later, but seriously nair is the best move in this mu)
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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How the hell do I fight Olimar
**** this piece of **** *** captain bald slanty eye mother fker
Lord chair has a pretty amazing post about what to do in this MU.

Here's the post;


Nair will either combo Olimar to hell and back at lower percentages, or will generally put him in a very awkward position at higher percentages. His physics just totally fit the move, you know the way you CAN'T nair > grab Falco when he's at 0%? Well, against Olimar you can do that and more. Nair > nair > fsmash, nair > nair > fair > ledge- or edgeguard, nair > jab > grab, ENDLESS AND ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES depending on percentages, you can really knock yourself out on that one.

Aside of how badly his mechanics (his light weight and general floatiness) are, the move is rather safe in general. On shield, it's obviously extremely safe, the first hitbox beats most (not all) of his pikmin moves, if you keep timing it well you can give Olimar a hard time beating it through conventional means.

At higher percentages, its awkward knockback angle can screw him up as well.

Its speed makes it preferable over dair in close combat situations, you definitely can't use it as a long range approach (lol nothing works as a long range approach against Olimar), but its normal uses (decently safe, comboability, speed) are amplified in this MU because of the way Olimar works.

Do know that if Olimar is in the air, you should never fear him. Most of you probably already know this, but for the few who still actually play really safe when he's up there: don't. Every aerial you hit while he's in the air puts him in an even more awkward position, your air game beats his because of the STUPID aspect of his air game that's called priority. All of his aerials can be outprioritized. Of course we don't outrange him, but so long as you time everything well (it's a perfectly human thing to do) you'll beat him regardless. Your fair will beat his, your dair will beat his uair, your uair beats his dair, SO LONG AS YOU TIME IT WELL.

Know when you have to commit to using uair to remove pikmin. When they're on certain parts of your body, you CAN'T KILL THEM WITH NAIR OR DAIR DON'T EVEN BOTHER (i.e. use uair), I'd note exact spots but I usually do it instinctively lol sorry ^^. I hate it when I see Wario players using nair like 5 times to knock off 2 white pikmin, which'll do their 500000% anyway. I know it's a ***** to have uair go stale, but it's better than taking unnecessary damage.

Tires are not really good against Olimar, watch Krys' vids against Hilt (I believe it was Hilt), Pikmin are way more expendable and practically beat them out.

Standing on a platform is never safe, usmash usmash usmash usmash and there's nothing you can do. You can, in fact, even just get pushed off and the greedy ******* can go for another safe usmash.

You can go for dropzone fairs, they're safe so long as you recover by biking AWAY from the stage, and then DJing back to either the ledge or onstage itself (whichever one seems more safe). Watch out for dem purple pikmin though, they'll knock you off your bike :(

Bike works decently as a ledgeguard, but as I said earlier: the tires are rubbish. More often than not, you're wasting time pulling out your bike.

That's all for now, more later perhaps.
 

Tesh

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i think i asked this already, but is there some thread that details what every character can grab release wario into and how to deal with it? i was dealing with a sheik recently and I realized too late that I could SDI down hard into upsmash to survive alot longer (does 30 damage tho yikes).
 

DMG

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loooool

You're very late to the Shiek thing. I came up with that a long *** time ago.
 

Tesh

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yea, thats kinda my point. I was wondering if you guys if you guys had a listing somewhere so I don't have to find out on my last stock game 3 of a set.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
There used to be a list: it might still be listed in the Wario thread directory.
 
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