Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
Thats actually a really good observation...
Hmm. im going to brainstorm on this...
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Wario Q&A Thread
- Thread starter ssbbFICTION
- Start date
Hmm. im going to brainstorm on this...
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
OH you have NO idea . . . (evil grin)
Nah kidding bout havin no idea, but seriously my tire game in that matchup (plus the bike) is the reason I haven't lost to any spectacular MKs yet and not came back to win (Judge, went and 3-0'd, every other MW MK I've beaten). I've only lost to God MK's like M2K, and I have yet to get my rematch against him or Ally's MK.
Usually if I lose to an MK, I come back and even it out real fast. I've been wanting to face M2K again for a long while...
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
Lol i wish i could wario ditto you offline sometime Krystedez =(
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
just ditto him online that's what I did. Although I think you the only Wario I haven't ditto online you and Malcolm.
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
And me, I dont play wi fi though, i assume your referring to online warios. haha
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Yeah I only meant the Wario's who play online.
LordAizen
Smash Journeyman
And me lol. I play Wario online cuz I don't have anybody to play offline ATM. And sadly my online isn't working ATM :/
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
You're from cali also so there's plenty of tournies although the distance my present a problem for you.
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
Lol ive never lost in wario dittos online besides to waymas not that that means anything lol.
I need to rematch bassem in wario dittos btw too >:O
I need to rematch bassem in wario dittos btw too >:O
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Waymas is really good.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
He is a really cool wario to talk to also.
Sucks i havnt met him in real life. That goes for 1/2 the warios here too
Jane
Smash Hero
wait, does waymas main wario?!
if he does, thats amazing that the best player in mexico mains wario :]
if he does, thats amazing that the best player in mexico mains wario :]
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Why isnt he on the mexico PR?
Jane
Smash Hero
mexico has a national power ranking?
i just know waymas is considered the best
i just know waymas is considered the best
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I think PX has a couple of vids against Espy's sonic you should check those out. Things I try to keep in mind when I play against sonic. Also I think there's a vid of Futile vs X somewhere. PX also played Malcolm at Apex 1. Maybe if you can get in touch with Malcolm He can give you some good advice since he played sonic at an extremely high level and know he's playing Wario at a high level.
1. his extremely bad priority. Most of the time sonics will try to spin and do spin shenanigans and mix ups to try to confuse you and get openings.
2. His speed not only just his run speed but his spring shots him up in the air really fast he can use spring to either excuse things or chase after you. He covers ground extremely fast.
3. His abysmal kill power. Sonic shouldn't kill you below 150. Fsmash dsmash will be his ground kill moves of choice. His aerials bair uair fair while they're not like Marth in terms of power (tippered) Sonice will chase after you off stage high up in the air and these moves will kill you. Bair may be his strongest kill one though.
Whenever I see a sonic I'm prepared for a long drawn out match since most of the time he's trying to get in on you and confuse and mix you up. That in addition to his extremely low kill power with just cause the match to draw out. So when you're at high percentages just run away and try and force him to become predictable. Bite is pretty effective against him especially if they run at you. His recovery is godly and he can recover from anywhere on the stage. Tech his dthrow he has some weird dthrow stuff that he can chase after you for or regrab or some type of shenanigans.
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
This is a good summary but im going to add two things.
1) ive seen some recent videos of sonic, Where the sonic will often run to the ledge and charge forward B. This is simple but very annyoing. Stay with it, dont get frustrated and punish with grab, fsmash or bite (if he goes this route)
2) BITE! too good vs sonic, His low priority makes him too easy to bite son.
Just eat dat lil blue ***** up.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Pretty much what AL and Snap said. Sonic is ridiculously easy, it just takes a lot of patience. I don't think I've played a single match with a *legit* Sonic main that's lasted under 6 minutes. Both characters usually focus around camping and waiting for the opportunity to punish each other, so it's a pretty silly match-up. Wario's options are just better. Easier kills, better control, priority, doesn't die as early.
Our Fair doesn't have much trouble eating through most of his attacks - other than his Bair. Just watch out for that really and you shouldn't have much difficulty with his pressuring options.
Our Fair doesn't have much trouble eating through most of his attacks - other than his Bair. Just watch out for that really and you shouldn't have much difficulty with his pressuring options.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Don't just Bite thinking that you'll beat him out, I usually cover that part of the MU by saying Sonic counters it by cancelling his cancel into a cancel with a cancel leading into dair, which'll beat our Bite.
Since he'll be cancelling his way through this MU anyway, it's kinda the same thing as any character vs Wario only to a lesser extent: pivot grab beats all of his approaches, but when is he going to approach? The main difference between Wario and Sonic is, however, that Sonic cannot capitalize on hitting someones shield, he can't straight-out BEAT someones shield with aerial grabs and he is actually vulnerable while preparing his (fake) approach.
No idea why I did that in italics.
Since he'll be cancelling his way through this MU anyway, it's kinda the same thing as any character vs Wario only to a lesser extent: pivot grab beats all of his approaches, but when is he going to approach? The main difference between Wario and Sonic is, however, that Sonic cannot capitalize on hitting someones shield, he can't straight-out BEAT someones shield with aerial grabs and he is actually vulnerable while preparing his (fake) approach.
No idea why I did that in italics.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Watch malcolm vs any sonic. Its will make you think that the matchup is 100-0.
This.
Speed who is considered one of the best Sonic's thinks the MU is close to impossible because of Malcolm. He's just like: "I don't know how he does it."
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
Play super safe imo, Your going to have to hit every single fart you get if you want to beat a competent MK player. If he fairs and you shield it, nair out and get a grab or fsmash off that. The problem is you cant nair all over the place in this MU the way you normally could, The problem is If you nair out of shield, Mk can just nair out of shield on reaction and beat you being faster and having transcendent priority.
This matchup is a real struggle imo. The wario player has to play very well depending on the skill level of the MK. I finding biting to be bad vs MK because MKs rarely shield.
Also, if you havent already, learn the DACUS. Its a big tool for punishing Nado or shuttle loop, in some scenarios.
And finally, the tire game, is optional but i find it helps a lot.
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
Yeah bite seems to only work out of jab for me in this matchup =/
And if they are standing on a platform they most of the time sheild so i bite them instead of uairing
And if they are standing on a platform they most of the time sheild so i bite them instead of uairing
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Alright, so I decided this week to change Wario from a secondary to my primary main, alongside ZSS. I decided to practice with him on the recommended counterpick stages and I realized somewhat of a glitch on Brinstar. I'm not sure if it's known or not.
Where the tendons in the center of the stage are holding the stage together. The bike was laying down there with a few of the tendons missing and when I went to get back on it with the normal bike jump (by doing a jump+sideB), Wario did like... a super jump. He went far beyond the normal parameters of the vertical blastzone and was left freefalling for about five-seven seconds before finally returning onto the stage. Is this knowledge that's already been stated?
Also, another question, what are some gimmicks on Brinstar that Wario can use. It's obviously a good stage for him, but I'm probably overlooking some of his gimmicks there.
Where the tendons in the center of the stage are holding the stage together. The bike was laying down there with a few of the tendons missing and when I went to get back on it with the normal bike jump (by doing a jump+sideB), Wario did like... a super jump. He went far beyond the normal parameters of the vertical blastzone and was left freefalling for about five-seven seconds before finally returning onto the stage. Is this knowledge that's already been stated?
Also, another question, what are some gimmicks on Brinstar that Wario can use. It's obviously a good stage for him, but I'm probably overlooking some of his gimmicks there.
LordAizen
Smash Journeyman
I actually think that tires give you a big boost against MK. Without tires I tend to struggle more.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
I agree. Tires can help against mk but you should not focus on breaking your bike. If you have time/space you should. Controlling the tires,imo, is more helpful for the wario then for the mk.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I talked to Fiction about the Sonic MU, seeing as PX almost always beat Espy's Sonic back in the day. Fiction said X figured out a way to get around Bite, but he didn't tell me how.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
That's not right. The chaingrab on Falcon shouldn't work until 60%, IIRC.
EDIT: 52% could work too, I've just seen it done from 60%.
EDIT: 52% could work too, I've just seen it done from 60%.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
It starts at 52 and it has to be stale by 70.
uhhh, which is it? Does captain falcon's start at 0 or 52??
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I thought he said falco. Since Falco and Wolf are the only characters Wario can't CG starting at zero.
Patterns Try to pick up on the patterns that the MK are doing and pick your spots to get in on. It seems easy but MK has a lot of moves that he can through at you to attempt to keep you out and they're pretty much faster than what Wario has to have.
Punish Ah this is most likely the key element. You have to know when and how to punish MK. Because of how light he is you can punish him hard and get early kills(waft) The problem however, is the speed of his moves. Then there's also times when you can fail to punish. One of the common things for me is shield grabbing his dsmash. I will think I'm in range of to shield grab dsmash but I'd go for the grab whiff and eat a dsmash. Be wary of this. This is just one instance though and doesn't mean you shouldn't try for it however your spacing has to be on point. Since some MK's will throw it out there because they feel as though it's safe.
Patient While trying to get in you will take damage. However, you need to remember to take your time and think. Pick up on the MK's patterns and punish him hard for his mistakes. If you rush him you can either eat a kill move or take a lot of damage. Remember risk for reward if the risk out way the reward you shouldn't go for it. Always remember time is on your side. If the MK starts to get the feeling you're willing to take it to time or just aren't willing to rush they can sometime gets antsy. Waft is your best friend don't neglect him. Also try not to run into any grounded up B's invincible on start up.
You want the MK to come to you so that you can shield grab his stuff. You can come in on the MK if you like to apply pressure however, you have to be extremely careful since the majority of his moves beat yours out. Look for your spot and pick your spot to attack. I make it sound easy and it seems simply enough however, it's hard you have to play tighter against MK then any other character. His range and speed and low cool down make windows to get in and punish tight. I can't really tell you what to punish or how since it's spacing dependent and dependent on his move. You need to have a good feel for his speed and range of his attacks.
Hope this helps. Vids to look for fiction, hunger, bassem, blue rogue, krystedez should all have vids of the MU. Same with Masky. If any of them have similar play style to you should watch what their doing. ALso PX and Malcolm may also have vids of the MU. Also there's no real CP outside of like FD.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Start at 52% to be safe, that way it'll be stale by the time you reach the 60% mark.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I think from 0-40 he can shine out.
you're confusing falcon and falco.
CG thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228427
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
i think the CG on falcon starts at around 20% (i think you have to start at like exactly 20% in order for him to not randomly fall out like he does)
someone should re test it
someone should re test it
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
i bite vs Mk when they are dashing at me (why do MKs do this so much?) like they are going for the dash grab or attack
but this only works until the MK stops dashing all the way and stops in front of you to fair =(
What are you talking about? PX and I were like, 4-3 or 5-3 in sets.
That's not ALWAYS.
Also, for contribution sake:
- sideB's initial hop beats bite, so make sure you space it far enough away if the Sonic is already in SC's charging state.
- Wario has absolutely nothing that can stop Sonic's iSDR abuse on YI:B and Pictochat, so just camp the top platform and wait for an opening. That's about all you can do.
- Be wary that Sonic's up angled fsmash can beat your bite.
It's an easier match up for Wario, of course. However, be prepared to be frustrated to high hell if you don't net the first KO.