Q&A Wario Q&A and Help Thread - What's Wario Land

[BrutalHips]

I main pac and secondary wario, could someone take me under there wing and play a few matches with me ? I assure im worth playing lol

I'll play you, just add my nnid

 

[Dynomite]

Bah. Okay, what about this? Lately, I've been getting chomp (at around 0) into rar bair on big characters. How reliable is that?

I've gotten this a couple times, but dont want to call it a reliable combo. I would say it's pretty safe with a lower chance of getting punished though.

 

[ElDood]

Quick question. I've watched a lot of pro Wario vids, and the one thing I see them do that I haven't been able to incorporate into my game is Wario's Dtilt. A lot of people say it's easy to hit with and leads into combos, but I never really encounter a situation when it seems useful. It always winds up being too short. How should I be using it, and what can I do with it once it connects?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You have no range, so a lot of your gameplan should be making people run into your moves. It's probably Wario's least risky tool to use. Make people afraid to move toward you.

It's great out of a run turnaround cancel, as well as just in general. Remember that any move you're not punished for that doesn't cost anything is, at worst, not a bad move.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Is there a Wario social thread in this forum?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is there a Wario social thread in this forum?

Now there is!

http://smashboards.com/threads/diamond-city-coffee-wario-social-thread.415531/

 

[Dynomite]

Quick question. I've watched a lot of pro Wario vids, and the one thing I see them do that I haven't been able to incorporate into my game is Wario's Dtilt. A lot of people say it's easy to hit with and leads into combos, but I never really encounter a situation when it seems useful. It always winds up being too short. How should I be using it, and what can I do with it once it connects?

I think it's a good option when you need a fast hitbox to come out on the ground. Our jab is not the greatest compared to other characters, so I use dtilt as a sub. Example: diddy would jab to interupt, get a little hitstun in to keep momentum, or follow up on. I'd use dtilt the same way. There is a great frame advantage chart reflex made on dtilt. Its a good read.

 

[ElDood]

You have no range, so a lot of your gameplan should be making people run into your moves. It's probably Wario's least risky tool to use. Make people afraid to move toward you.

I do that with my bite. More recovery obviously, but better range and better coverage.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Right. More recovery means more punishable. When you fight at a higher level of play, you want to mitigate risk whenever you can, because people will punish harder and faster. Neutral-B also doesn't really lead into anything else, whereas D-Tilt true combos into Dash Attack at mid percents and Half Waft/Dash Attack at high percents.

 

[Rakurai]

Do you have to tipper the down tilt to get a waft off of it?

Never knew about that particular waft setup, and having more of them is always welcome.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

No; in fact, you're almost always better off hitting as close to Wario as possible so they have more area to travel. The best way to land it is out of a run turnaround cancel, since that lets you continue moving forward.

 

[Kaladin]

At mid %s, my go-to option with dtilt is dtilt dtilt dashgrab (pummels) fthrow for a nice %20 of a four frame move. Assuming I don't have a waft ready, is there something more optimal I should be doing? (I mix it up with dtilt fair and dtilt nair.)

 

[Dynomite]

At mid %s, my go-to option with dtilt is dtilt dtilt dashgrab (pummels) fthrow for a nice %20 of a four frame move. Assuming I don't have a waft ready, is there something more optimal I should be doing? (I mix it up with dtilt fair and dtilt nair.)

I've had situations where I go for the dash grab out of my second D-tilt resulting in a miss. I'm assuming they are able to buffer a roll, jump or something to get away from it. Reason being? Maybe the second dtilt pushes them too far? I was too slow? Anyone else have this happen, or have any insight?

 

[Ness Lee]

Hi, I'm a Ness main looking to pick up a pocket Wario. I've only been really practicing with him for about two days and it's going well except for a few problems I have with his bike so I have a few questions.

1. What do the hitboxes on his bike look like? For example, sometimes I'll turn around with the bike, and I know the back tire has a multi hitbox, but it seems to go away even while I'm still stuck in the turning around animation so I'm kind of stuck there because I can't jump off while in the turn around animation and there's no hitbox.

2. When I'm riding the bike offstage and drop it, sometimes I'm able to use it incredibly fast, basically as soon as it drops off screen, but if I'm riding it away from the stage and drop it, or if it gets broken while I'm offstage, it seems to be instant death for me because the bike just won't come back. I'm just wondering what causes that so I can figure out when I can best use bike offstage. Thanks!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If you start a Forward-B in the air, you will not be able to use the Bike again until your feet touch the ground. If you start it on the ground, you just need the Bike to disappear in order to use it again.

 

[Ness Lee]

If you start a Forward-B in the air, you will not be able to use the Bike again until your feet touch the ground. If you start it on the ground, you just need the Bike to disappear in order to use it again.

We'll that's really good to know. I was confused as to why it wasn't working.

And about my first question, is it generally a bad approach to ride the bike towards my opponent and turn around trying to hit them with the multi hitbox of the back wheel? I like doing that especially for ledge guarding, but if they shield it I feel like I'm stuck in that turn around animation without any hitboxes forever

 

[Spinosaurus]

And about my first question, is it generally a bad approach to ride the bike towards my opponent and turn around trying to hit them with the multi hitbox of the back wheel? I like doing that especially for ledge guarding, but if they shield it I feel like I'm stuck in that turn around animation without any hitboxes forever

Worth going for if your opponent doesn't know the amount of hitboxes it generates, otherwise it's not safe at all.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

What does Wario have on Castle Siege?

 

[Zionaze]

The obscure platforms for chomp and statue acts as a portable bike

 

[Daxter]

Is there a way to be a purely offensive Wario? I find everywhere I look they say "Play defensive and bait them," but Wario's got so many poking tools, I can't help but wonder if he's geared for going on the attack more often?

 

[Rakurai]

His range is generally too limited for him to go on the offensive, as most of the cast can stuff fair and his other approach options easily. The only angle he excels at approaching from is below, as uair has a huge amount of disjoint and speed.

His punish game is superb due to his aerial mobility letting him bait attacks then quickly swoop in after a whiff. The Chomp is particularly good at this,

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is there a way to be a purely offensive Wario? I find everywhere I look they say "Play defensive and bait them," but Wario's got so many poking tools, I can't help but wonder if he's geared for going on the attack more often?

Of course, but you won't win nearly as many matches. Most of Wario's pokes don't lead into much or deal significant damage on their own, and he's too slow to be able to pressure most characters well. Wario's generally considered a good character because he has the tools to win the battle of attrition by being able to avoid opponents' offense well while playing defensively. There are other characters who has a similar poking style but actually have more speed or power per stray poke on their side, like Sheik, Palutena, and Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[Dynomite]

Has anyone found good uses for d-throw? (Singles not doubles) Perhaps d-throw > ftilt? Ive tried for d-throw > bair, but my success rate is rather low.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Doing it near the edge (with your back facing the edge) can make them feel more inclined to grab that edge to protect themselves after you throw them offstage, which can be good for a character who's so good at punishing people on the edge.

Even if it's not outright offstage, doing it so that they're near the edge will give him less space to land if they mash Jump to avoid the need to tech. That can be nice, I suppose. Doesn't really work on characters with very low endlag on certain aerials, though.

 

[Jeffrah]

Just wondering what each waft stage looks like, and how I can utilize each of them to their fullest.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Just wondering what each waft stage looks like, and how I can utilize each of them to their fullest.

Level 1 is when almost no gas comes out and Wario laughs to himself. Don't use it.

Level 2 is when a little gas comes out but Wario doesn't rise upward at all. Don't use it.

Level 3 is when Wario rises up a decent bit. It's the fastest of them by far and it's great as a quick punish tool.

Level 4 is when Wario is glowing; there's a large explosion and he rockets upward. It's still a punish tool, but it's much slower than Level 3 and is much more powerful.

 

[Boost4u]

Has anyone found good uses for d-throw? (Singles not doubles) Perhaps d-throw > ftilt? Ive tried for d-throw > bair, but my success rate is rather low.

Dthrow to dash attack used to be my go to. It catches those that don't tech or jump.

Dthrow to bike is a cool tool to try out. It gets them if they tech in place, tech away from you, or just fail to tech. Tilt the bike upwards on the hit and that's around 20% damage right there.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

2 Questions.

I never really liked doing the bike park-extended waft trick but I'm starting to use it more. My question is, are you trying to get the waft to hit them on the 1st frame when they grab ledge, or when they have already finished their invincible ledge grab animation?

2. Does chomp stale, and if so is it by a lot?

 

[Rakurai]

2 Questions.

I never really liked doing the bike park-extended waft trick but I'm starting to use it more. My question is, are you trying to get the waft to hit them on the 1st frame when they grab ledge, or when they have already finished their invincible ledge grab animation?

The former, because you can't cover all ledge options with the waft, and thus don't want them to grab it in the first place.

Characters with slower up Bs like Captain Falcon are pretty much dead if they're forced to recover low against Wario in that situation, while the speedier ones like Marth have a slight chance at survival as you need to predict when they'll try to ledge snap.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Ok, thx Rakurai.

I guess my next question is whether or not there is accessible shield stun data for Wario's attacks. Need to know what is safe on shield and how bad are the attacks that aren't safe. If not i'll take a look at brawl data.

Is there a frame-by-frame mode in smash 4? Just curious b/c I don't own the game yet and mostly just write things down and test them out at fests.

 

[Rakurai]

From personal experience, I think the only moves Wario has that are generally safe on shield are a properly spaced back air or down tilt.

I don't think he has anything that's truly 100% safe against all characters (Outside of the half/max charge waft), as some up Bs can catch both moves OoS.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I mean, i know for a fact up-air is also considered safe on shield. I just want to know stuff like frame advantages, not just whether it's safe as the term "safe" is relative and doesn't mean frame positive. So even though we deem some things as safe, it might not be against characters with great OOS options.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Guard_Hitstop.htm

Translate the page if you like. First box is how much damage the attack does, second is what frame it hits on, third is the full length of endlag, fourth is hitlag multiplier. The first check box is if your move has the Electric element and the second is if the attacker experiences hitlag (which should only be unchecked on projectiles).

For example, U-Air on shield. It does 13% and I know it has 12 frames of landing lag. Assuming I get U-Air on shield the frame before I land:

First box is 13, second is 1 and third is 13 (just need to make sure the difference between the second and third is the same; I could say 8 and 20 if I wanted), and the fourth is 1. It says both players have ten frames of hitlag freeze, the shielding characters has five frames of shield pushback, and it's -7 on shield (which is +1 if the opponent drops their shield normally, rather than jumping out of shield).

 

[Axel311]

So I'm finding that with Wario I'm having the biggest problems against characters with big disjointed hitboxes, like . Sorry if this question is a little broad but what's the normal gameplan going into a match against these characters? I'm having major issues getting walled out. What are some good tips for dealing with characters with disjoints?

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Hi Axel,

Try looking on page 14 of the Wry Mustache Man page for help on marth as we discussed that matchup. I too struggled against a marth and reflecting on it, my struggle against marth came from poor, what I like to call, "Wario Fundamentals," as ordinary fundamentals don't translate well to wario. I can almost guarantee you Marth and maybe/probably ike have bad matchups against Wario (If Ike does win it can't be by much and would only be at a low-level of play imo), but just because the match up is good for Wario, it doesn't mean it's easy. Way too many matchups for wario are like marth v. falcon in melee, it seems like you can never get in and at first the marth will always win in the low-level matchup meta, but when you understand the matchup better in terms of mechanics, frame data, and approach options (or sometimes non-approach options ;D), it drastically starts to skew into your/falcon's/wario's favor.

As for a character like Ike who I play against a lot, my advice is never throw anything out that can put you in a situation to get punished hard (aka f-tilt in a frame neutral position, sh nair is pretty good and sh hop u-air and rising f-air in these scenarios), or even dash attacked since that's now a kill move for Ike. Secondly, a lot of people don't know these things, but Ike is the same weight as Wario and also Ike is a very grab-heavy character. He has frame traps and you have to learn how to DI and not to react out of fear and sometimes going for a read kill isn't worth it because ike tanks hard and will kill you if you miss. As for recovery, your general recovery game has to be strong to not get spIKEd by ike. I'm not going to say recover high or low, because smash requires mixups, but I find recovering high or drifting with air-dodge to help me recover safely. Wario doesn't have disjoints (He actually does) like Ike, but so do other top characters like yoshi, sonic, and falcon (they have disjoints too lol, especially falcon). But what makes him/them great is their ridiculous mobility. I know this top-ike player who throws out short hop back flips because it gets people to rush him and he punishes with back air. He has to work with that, while wario's tools are so much better given that he moves around about as quickly as jigglpuff and yoshi. When you learn to abuse Wario's aerial mobility to bait and punish ike, then the matchup will come clear.

I'm still working on the peach matchup myself, which I believe is also like the archetypal marth-falcon matchup but even more extreme. Also, I would not like to disregard how much of a solid of a character ike is, if the ike you're playing against is as good as you, he can still win.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Dthrow to bike(and immediately jumping off) is actually really solid at lower percents(usually 0-40%). Since a lot of players who are unfamiliar with Wario's dthrow will just try to tech it. Bike covers both tech in place and tech away, and if they tech towards you you can easily maneuver backwards and chomp their ass. If they know to just jump out, I opt for uthrow instead.

But some heavies like DK or even Falcon just can't get out of the way fast enough to avoid the bike.

 

[Andaya]

Can anyone give me some tips about playing against Lucas? Mostly on how to approach him

 

[Axel311]

Hi Axel,

Try looking on page 14 of the Wry Mustache Man page for help on marth as we discussed that matchup. I too struggled against a marth and reflecting on it, my struggle against marth came from poor, what I like to call, "Wario Fundamentals," as ordinary fundamentals don't translate well to wario. I can almost guarantee you Marth and maybe/probably ike have bad matchups against Wario (If Ike does win it can't be by much and would only be at a low-level of play imo), but just because the match up is good for Wario, it doesn't mean it's easy. Way too many matchups for wario are like marth v. falcon in melee, it seems like you can never get in and at first the marth will always win in the low-level matchup meta, but when you understand the matchup better in terms of mechanics, frame data, and approach options (or sometimes non-approach options ;D), it drastically starts to skew into your/falcon's/wario's favor.

As for a character like Ike who I play against a lot, my advice is never throw anything out that can put you in a situation to get punished hard (aka f-tilt in a frame neutral position, sh nair is pretty good and sh hop u-air and rising f-air in these scenarios), or even dash attacked since that's now a kill move for Ike. Secondly, a lot of people don't know these things, but Ike is the same weight as Wario and also Ike is a very grab-heavy character. He has frame traps and you have to learn how to DI and not to react out of fear and sometimes going for a read kill isn't worth it because ike tanks hard and will kill you if you miss. As for recovery, your general recovery game has to be strong to not get spIKEd by ike. I'm not going to say recover high or low, because smash requires mixups, but I find recovering high or drifting with air-dodge to help me recover safely. Wario doesn't have disjoints (He actually does) like Ike, but so do other top characters like yoshi, sonic, and falcon (they have disjoints too lol, especially falcon). But what makes him/them great is their ridiculous mobility. I know this top-ike player who throws out short hop back flips because it gets people to rush him and he punishes with back air. He has to work with that, while wario's tools are so much better given that he moves around about as quickly as jigglpuff and yoshi. When you learn to abuse Wario's aerial mobility to bait and punish ike, then the matchup will come clear.

I'm still working on the peach matchup myself, which I believe is also like the archetypal marth-falcon matchup but even more extreme. Also, I would not like to disregard how much of a solid of a character ike is, if the ike you're playing against is as good as you, he can still win.

Very helpful, thanks!

 

[Sari]

I've been able to do this before but I was wondering if it's guaranteed:

Footstooling an aerial opponent which makes them to fall on your parked bike, then full-wafting on the bike so the hitbox is extended causing your opponent to get hit.

Basically is the waft's extended hitbox long enough to hit the opponent before they roll?

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I'm pretty sure you will never have the ability to aerial footstool someone, land, and even begin your waft before someone has time to act. I feel that is extremely/unrealistically situational and the real question is whether you have enough time/frames to land and begin your waft. Btw Sari, Reflex uploaded a chart on the Wario Data concepts and creativity page outlining who can be aerial footstooled into a full waft which is probably the better idea to have in mind if you are actively going for an aerial footstool with a full waft charged. If you want to do this bike trick on the exceptions who can't be AF to waft, then I can't really help you out there, and can only say I don't think that would work, since footstooling forces you to go up, and if you have enough time to fast fall and react before they can, then having the bike there is useless. I might have misunderstood what you are asking and I'm sorry if so. I hope someone can offer you a better answer.