Q&A Wario Q&A and Help Thread - What's Wario Land

[Axel311]

No. The biggest reason is because Wario feels so awkward and wonky to use. He plays completely different from the rest of the cast and people don't feel comfortable playing him. Also he doesn't have the usual dthrow to upair combo a lot of people love so that contributes as well. He's also a campy character, most people prefer aggressive types. Also, Wario has a pretty high learning curve, he takes a lot of work to get good with. Definitely not a pick up and play character.

It's funny, I was watching ZeRo's stream last night. He used Wario randomly one game and was complaining during the whole match about how awkward the character feels and moves. Immediately switched to another character afterwards.

 

[BrutalHips]

Don't know why people keep saying Wario has no combos.
In my opinion he has some of the best kill set ups/combos.
A personal favorite on slightly heavier characters is out of shield Nair, fast fall into the sour spot nair, into uptilt, into upair. racks up damage so fast. Lets not forget the widely known match finisher, from 35-50%, sour spot nair into max waft is a true combo.
At around 110% fast fall Dair into sidetilt is a true combo for a good kill. Around 80-90% fast fall Dair into upsmash is a true combo on lighter characters like kirby and puff.
Ledge gaurding with the bike into anything is a great combo.
a personal favorite is throwing your bike up, rolling back (if you know your opponent is rolling back on stage), and just Dtilt spam em back towards your bike, back and forth for massive damage, then just grab and throw em off stage and try to ledge gaurd again with the bike, or try to gimp in the many other ways that Wario can (ledge tackle, Dair offstage, Fair, Bair, throwing bike off stage and following it for a possible follow up, etc.).
I'm just scratching the surface here.
The sky is the limit with this Character, and I can't wait to see what else we all can find out about this amazingly weird fighter in the future.

 

[FrankTheStud]

My big issue is that he plays very differently from Brawl. Aside from Wario's signature, quick f-smash being replaced with the laggiest and most generic move of all time, Wario feels more slippery on the ground, and less mobile in the air. His nair hitboxes are really weird, his bair is laggy, his uair isn't as strong, and his far/dair are still good. His motorcycle is still pretty good (auto taunt when popping a wheelie is annoying, though), and while I do like that his dash attack sourspot trips, it's difficult to build anything out of it because of how much laggier he is in this game.
Wario used to be a monster--great aerial momentum, great power, great aerial strength and ground strength, good speed... Great recovery. He used to feel like a well rounded, ferocious fighter... Now he feels kinda... Risky at best. I know it sounds weird, but Brawl made me switch from Mario to Wario, and now Sm4sh made me switch right back. Mario got some well needed buffs, and Wario got dumbed down to a pulp.

This isn't to say Wario isn't good or has no potenrial in Sm4sh, because he definitely does--he just plays very differently than Brawl, and I'm having a hard time swallowing that pill.

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

So I Main Lucas, and Ness and I Keep Getting Down B alot, so I heard Wario is a good Counterpick for Rosalina. Well is he?

 

[Axel311]

I think so. I think it's even at worst. Possibly in Wario's favor. Good discussion on the Rosa forums here: http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-match-up-analysis-r2-wario.405499/

Main advantage Wario has is Rosa is very vunerable to waft. Rosa is big and luma is a a constant hitbox extender next to Rosa. She's also very light so she's a big target for nair to waft KO at low percents if Wario has rage. Also her recovery has no hitbox so Wario can fart all over it.

Also, Rosa's down B can't absorb bike and wario can outcamp Rosa. Because of waft she's forced to approach.

Also when Abadango's Wario met Dabuz's Rosalina at EVO, Dabuz (the best Rosalina) switched to Olimar after losing game one with Rosalina. I think that says something, Dabuz seems to feel it's a bad matchup.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Wario plays very differently from a lot of the characters in Smash 4. Despite him being a heavyweight, he has air mobility comparable to Jigglypuff, a lot of quick moves, and strange lack of kill potential. And as previously stated, he has no guaranteed combo throws or consistent combos like Sheik or Mario, which turns a lot of people off.

He's a very defensive character, relying heavily on pokes and punishes to build up damage. Edgeguarding for the first stock and then fishing for a waft the second stock is also quite strange for a lot of people.

 

[Axel311]

I've got a few questions -

1) What is a general rule of thumb for what combos to do out of grab at each %? At what %’s should I be using upthrow to upair instead of dthrow to dash attack?

2) At what %'s is nair to waft guaranteed? I've been having problems with people airdodging the waft off of sourspot nair lately. I'm looking to find out at what percentages I need to start looking for and reading air dodges.

Thanks for any help!

 

[outfoxd]

Warios back throw is also a nice luma killer.

 

[Dabuz]

I switched because speed bike is a huge problem for Rosa.

 

[04r]

Warios back throw is also a nice luma killer.

Very true. It might be the quickest Luma killer in the game.

The only thing Rosa really has on Wario is Nair and Uair. Nair out ranges all of his aerials and stays out forever; Uair is obvious(it's dumb).

 

[04r]

Crashing Dair into half waft. - Dair through your grounded opponent into the stage so that the last hit doesn't hit (Wario gets his head stuck) then immediately fart. This works with half waft though I'm not totally sure with full.

 

[Kaladin]

I'm interested in picking up Wario, but I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point to his setups/strings? What his neutral looks like? Throw followups? Thanks.

 

[Revax]

I'm interested in picking up Wario, but I'm not sure where to start. Could someone point to his setups/strings? What his neutral looks like? Throw followups? Thanks.

Here are some rough percentages that I use not based on testing (percentages indicate opponent's percent)

0-20% - Very annoying range since a lot of Wario's attacks are punishable, especially F-Air so I try to grab/command grab (nothing is guaranteed out of grabs except maybe U-Air from U-Throw on big characters and F-Air out of chomp at low percents).

20-80% - N-Air combos really well at this percent roughly into U-Air, B-Air and waft. I also start throwing out F-Air and B-Air to catch people approaching or punish. D-Tilt also links into D-Tilt at the fingertip which also links into dash attack

80-120% - D-Tilt starts reliably linking into grab, I start trying to gimp recoveries with waft, and start using my bike to deny getup options. Sour spot F-Air links reasonably well into another F-Air so Wario can carry some characters off stage

120-160% - If you have enough rage, cancelling D-Air into the ground while hitting someone can put them into a position to F-Tilt, U-Smash or half waft. I generally only try this on floaty characters though. I also look for opportunities to B-Air since it will kill off stage

160%+ - Wario's F-Throw kills reasonably close to the ledge, U-Air starts killing

In short
Setups - N-Air into things, sour spot F-Air, D-Tilt, sour spot U-Tilt, U-Air can combo into U-Air also for 26%
Neutral - Floating around the opponent looking, capitalizing on safe opportunities (bike hits for 17% with wheelie and is somewhat safe as long as you aren't throwing it out all the time) but otherwise waiting for waft
Throw followups - Wario doesn't have any. U-Throw puts people in an unfavorable situation though since Wario's anti-air is good. Save F-Throw for killing, use B-Throw to get them off stage or against RosaLuma

 

[Kaladin]

Here are some rough percentages that I use not based on testing (percentages indicate opponent's percent)

0-20% - Very annoying range since a lot of Wario's attacks are punishable, especially F-Air so I try to grab/command grab (nothing is guaranteed out of grabs except maybe U-Air from U-Throw on big characters and F-Air out of chomp at low percents).

20-80% - N-Air combos really well at this percent roughly into U-Air, B-Air and waft. I also start throwing out F-Air and B-Air to catch people approaching or punish. D-Tilt also links into D-Tilt at the fingertip which also links into dash attack

80-120% - D-Tilt starts reliably linking into grab, I start trying to gimp recoveries with waft, and start using my bike to deny getup options. Sour spot F-Air links reasonably well into another F-Air so Wario can carry some characters off stage

120-160% - If you have enough rage, cancelling D-Air into the ground while hitting someone can put them into a position to F-Tilt, U-Smash or half waft. I generally only try this on floaty characters though. I also look for opportunities to B-Air since it will kill off stage

160%+ - Wario's F-Throw kills reasonably close to the ledge, U-Air starts killing

In short
Setups - N-Air into things, sour spot F-Air, D-Tilt, sour spot U-Tilt, U-Air can combo into U-Air also for 26%
Neutral - Floating around the opponent looking, capitalizing on safe opportunities (bike hits for 17% with wheelie and is somewhat safe as long as you aren't throwing it out all the time) but otherwise waiting for waft
Throw followups - Wario doesn't have any. U-Throw puts people in an unfavorable situation though since Wario's anti-air is good. Save F-Throw for killing, use B-Throw to get them off stage or against RosaLuma

Thank you. Why, how, and when should you be biking, other than on the ledge and for recovery?

 

[Revax]

Why, how, and when should you be biking

When to use the bike is largely match-up dependent. Generally you can't go wrong with using the bike and immediately hopping off it to send the bike in the opponent's direction to force a reaction (usually jump or shield) but it's only going to do 3-4%. Sometimes I follow the bike in the air and chomp the opponent just after the runaway bike hits their shield to cover that option at low percents.

Uses for riding the bike
Beat projectiles (match-up dependent) - The bike has some knockback based heavy armor so it can beat some moves at low percents (Ness pk fire, non-fully charged projectiles). If a projectile hits the bike but not Wario he usually won't be phased by it either so Wheelies can shield attacks (Mario fireball). However some piercing projectiles (Sheik needles) and explosion based projectiles (Link bomb) will ignore the bike and hit Wario regardless so I don't challenge those projectiles with it

Reading a spot dodge/roll - If you've just gotten a hit on the opponent and expect them to roll or spot-dodge, you can use the bike to get some safe damage and punish them

Punish landing/laggy attack - The bike is fast and has a bigger hitbox than Wario so it's good for guaranteeing some damage on a landing opponent. It's especially good for opponents who tech away, which is very common among the people I verse

It takes 20 frames for the bike to come out so be careful about using it close to an opponent in neutral, as if they hit you before the hitbox is active the bike will topple over and you'll need to eat/break it

 

[Kaladin]

Awesome, thanks. One more thing: I haven't started actually playing the character yet, but how does he deal with pressure? Jab is frame 8... Does he have a grounded get off me move? Or does he rely on SH nair and such?

 

[ElDood]

Awesome, thanks. One more thing: I haven't started actually playing the character yet, but how does he deal with pressure? Jab is frame 8... Does he have a grounded get off me move? Or does he rely on SH nair and such?

Generally, short hop Nair is his get offa me move. His Up B ist actually pretty quick and damaging, but god help you if your opponent reads it, or you do it at low percentages because the recovery on it is awful.

A half charged fart can also surprise some opponents (Regular fart charged between 55 and 110 seconds) since it comes out slightly quicker than the full charged fart. I've even knocked Mario out of his Up Tilt BS with it, though if you mistime the fart or they catch you in the startup frames, you'll lose the fart completely.

 

[Spinosaurus]

As Smash 4 progresses and more and more people find things out about characters, does anyone think that more people will flock to Wario? He has amazing aerial game, recovery, what is in my honest opinion the best command grab in the game, and his ace in the hole, the waft. Does anyone think that our beloved, greedy, coin-grabbing capitalist will get some more love?

Merged your thread here.

If people were curious on Wario this place would have gotten a hell of a more active like the Meta Knight boards recently. Abadango's showing at EVO wasn't really enough, not to mention Wario's general unpopularity.

 

[WwwWario]

As a Wario main (not only in Smash, but he's my favorite videogame character overall), I'm very sad that they removed the Shulder Bash. And I mean VERY sad. I see no reason they did it. If it was too good, they could easily have nerfed it instead of changing the whole move.

So, I have 2 questions:

1. Do you guys think it's somehow possible to get his Shoulder Bash back through an update if enough people want it? Or are move-changing updates out of the picture? I can understand if it is, but the Shoulderbash is Wario's MOST iconic move. That not being in Smash makes no sense whatsoever. Do you think it MAY be possible, by signing change polls, etc.?

2. As for Wario's Down Air, I often "drag" the opponent down to the stage with me and hit the floor before the final knockback hit comes out, and by doing that, I've always been able to land a D-smash or other moves out of this incomplete Dair. Is this a True Combo, or is it possible to escape it?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

1. No, you're never gonna get it back. They're not going to edit their animations.

2. Frame advantage on D-Air landing like that is dependent on your Rage and whether or not you manage to frame synch (also known as "frame canceling," which is a dumb name), which is a 50% chance because it hits on every other frame. If you manage to frame synch, it's likely a combo at any percent. If you don't, it's probably not a true combo; D-Tilt, Half Waft and Up-B start comboing when you're at 100+% Rage.

 

[Kaladin]

When should you be using half waft? I've just been waiting for full waft and then frame trapping/mind gaming/reading, but should I be half-wafting more? Idk, cuz this is my day 1 Wario...

 

[Axel311]

Crashing Dair into half waft. - Dair through your grounded opponent into the stage so that the last hit doesn't hit (Wario gets his head stuck) then immediately fart. This works with half waft though I'm not totally sure with full.

Anyone know what precents this can be used? And is it a guaranteed combo any certain precents? Started experimenting with this recently. Sometimes I hit, sometimes I miss. As long as the last hit of dair doesn't knock them away they seem to stay in fart range at a lot of percents.

 

[Rakurai]

I generally just waft whenever I'm sure it'll get a KO if it connects (Which is 80-90% with the half waft, assuming your opponent is at the edge).

The only time I feel it's worth waiting on the full charge is if you're considerably ahead or behind your opponent and want to end their second stock as quickly as possible.

 

[Rakurai]

Wario needs to have rage for it to work, as the knockback on the initial hits of dair is fixed.

Reflex had a chart detailing when it starts working somewhere, I believe...

 

[Kaladin]

Wario needs to have rage for it to work, as the knockback on the initial hits of dair is fixed.

Reflex had a chart detailing when it starts working somewhere, I believe...

Reflex has a chart for what taunts to use when...

 

[Kaladin]

Is it just me, or is Utilt a reaaaaaally good anti-air? It has ~15 intangibility frames and a good hitbox, letting it stuff anyone above you. Thoughts?

 

[Maziyah]

I main pac and secondary wario, could someone take me under there wing and play a few matches with me ? I assure im worth playing lol

 

[Kaladin]

I see a lot of people mentioning full hop fair and nair in the neutral. Why is that superior to short hop nair and fair, respectively?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It moves you further away from the opponent, so punishing, say, a retreating F-Air, requires more distance/commitment with their own jump.

 

[Axel311]

My opinions on stages has changed from a few months ago. I'm just hating FD more and more.

Anyone else feel FD is a bad stage for Wario? Unless I'm against a heavyweight, I just hate FD and it seems like I play worse there. Especially against characters like Luigi, I feel that platforms help Wario so much. You can bite though them, you can bair people better and you can just generally bob and weave more effectively. I feel like I get really predictable on FD. Maybe I haven't figured out how to beat them yet, but I've had a very difficult time against projectile types like on FD. I get zoned out by their spam and just cannot figure out a way to get in. It's getting super frustrating.

I'm planning to play Wario at a tourney coming up next week and I plan to ban FD instantly against these characters. Just me playing bad or anyone else feel like Wario stinks on FD against spammers?

At this point I feel like battlefield and dreamland are wario's best stages except against heavyweights where I like duck hunt because I can camp all day and they can't catch me. But then again I prefer to go against other heavyweights because I feel he does better than Wario in those matchups.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I personally find that Town and City is a very solid stage for Wario. A lot of the platform layouts are really great for camping. As they give a lot of room to maneuver and they are high off the ground.

 

[PokÉmblem]

I find smashville to be good and sometimes battlefield or dreamland(preferably). Wario doesn't feel too good on completely flat stages.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Battlefield in 3DS, imo.

Duck Hunt is Wario's best stage in Wii U, in my honest opinion. He can move so easily around the stage

 

[DavemanCozy]

The Bike has very slight knockback armor. Some part of the PK Fire might not have enough power to knock you off.

Can confirm. I did a few matches vs Atlas from Ottawa online, Wario rides the bike straight through the multi-hits of Ness's PK Fire if you're going at full speed, you will go right through it and hit Ness before he recovers from the PK-fire animation. This only works before Ness is at higher percents around ~70%.

What do you guys think are the best control settings to use while playing as Wario with the Wii U Gamepad/Controller Pro?

I think Attack stick is better with Wario, imo. It's a lot easier to do shell-shifting -> tilt stuff with tilt stick (aside: are we calling it shell-shifting still?), also makes more forgiving if you try to jump f-air but accidentally use an f-tilt instead of an f-smash. I also set a shoulder button (L or R) to jump, easier to do full-hop + C-stick aerials

 

[Zionaze]

Ohoho castle seige is warios best stage
Arena ferox on 3ds

 

[Zannabluke]

i don't wanna sound nitpicking but i wanna pick up a secondary for covering match-ups against rushdown characters with a better frame data than wario, such as fox or mario. are there any non-top tiers (from low-high/mid tier to low tier) that could do the work for me?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

are there any non-top tiers (from low-high/mid tier to low tier) that could do the work for me?

What you're saying is pretty at odds with itself. The high tiers are the characters that generally work for you, instead of making you work for them.

 

[Kaladin]

Wow, I really like Wario. He's a cool character. One question, though: SH uair is an excellent combo starter, but you have to be right on top of them. Outside of a read, how do you land this in neutral?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Generally speaking, you don't. It can't really be done at all like that on short characters. However, it's pretty safe on shield, for all that's worth.

 

[Kaladin]

Bah. Okay, what about this? Lately, I've been getting chomp (at around 0) into rar bair on big characters. How reliable is that?