Wario as Top Tier?

[PhantomX]

lol.



YES! Karina admits how good Wario is lol.

But we all know IC's are good too, me and Fiction use them as well :0

ZOMG real names on forums!

CY, I'm supposed to be money matching Esca, depending on how that turns out I'll play you. Falco is a boring as hell matchup either way, which is why I'm waiting. Even the best of us get tired of *Pew pew* *side b*

 

[Mith_]

queue eph tea

 

[Endless Nightmares]

*Sigh* I hate to admit it but Wario is just too good. ;-;

Yeah, I said it. >_>

whaaaaaaaa o.o

stole mah color scheme

 

[ZesuBen]

I've been looking through all the characters, Wario's one of the ones I have more fun with.

Maybe I'll pick him up as another secondary after all... After reading this, I feel like playing an offensive Wario would be fun.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Wario is god, no words for it. (He should be second to MK, not snake, as he runs even or beats everyone besides Marth >.>, while Snake has bad matchups with a lot of characters. )

On a sidenote, Second D3, people see you play Wario, then swap to D3, it catches them offguard big time(fastest aerial speed to slowest, big change.), and D3 has a good matchup with a lot of characters, and the ones he fails at, Wario has god matchups on, so its pretty nice. (And they both have a 50:50 with MK, yay!)

Not to mention, both of them are SO FREAKING HARD TO KILL!

 

[momochuu]

whaaaaaaaa o.o

stole mah color scheme

What? o_O I've been coloring my posts since like May. O.o

 

[slikvik]

I think that is probably the funniest thing I have ever read in my entire life

^_^

lol, you going to CoT4. I'll show you why I posted what I did

 

[Blistering Speed]

. (And they both have a 50:50 with MK, yay!)

I don't claim to be knowledgable enough about Wario to contend that he goes even, but I sure as **** know DDD doesn't.

 

[PhantomX]

Wario can aircamp MK really well, still not enough to get an advantage, he can also survive a hell of a long time, and kill him pretty early (if he's capable of landing a kill move, of course), so it's evenish, don't know if I'd call it exactly even.

 

[Blistering Speed]

How exactly can Wario aircamp MK? Again, I'm reasonably ignorant about Wario so I'm not undermining your statement, I would like an explanation though. MK has very good range and multiple jumps, Wario has poor range but very good DI. I don't see Wario air camping here.

 

[PhantomX]

MK has **** all for air speed, Wario can avoid MK with his airdodges and aerial control away VERY easily. It's the best way to face MKs. Most of them really love their retreating aerials until they get you offstage (when they go ape****). If you hit them up and get a lead, you can easily retreat from them and avoid all their retreating stuff, forcing them to play a bit more offensively, meaning you can punish them easier.

Or Wario could just run for a really long time. MK isn't one of the ones that can do much to stop his aircamping, no projectile, crappy airspeed = no game vs it (though he could try to approach via running on the ground into something, but that should be avoidable too0.

 

[Blistering Speed]

But for example, MK and Wario are in a neutral position. MK's retreating aerials, whilst easily avoidable, aren't going to be stopped by you. This doesn't really force MK to be offensive. You say if you get a lead and run away, then they have to be more offensive, but how will you get a lead in the first place theoretically? MK seems to have a safe option for every Wario approach. Also, even if offensive MK is easier to punish, MK can still stay relatively safe on approach. Walking F Tilt, spaced F Air's, how can Wario deal with this?

I agree with your proposition that Wario can run away however.

 

[philbobjoe]

Wario is god, no words for it. (He should be second to MK, not snake, as he runs even or beats everyone besides Marth >.>, while Snake has bad matchups with a lot of characters. )

On a sidenote, Second D3, people see you play Wario, then swap to D3, it catches them offguard big time(fastest aerial speed to slowest, big change.), and D3 has a good matchup with a lot of characters, and the ones he fails at, Wario has god matchups on, so its pretty nice. (And they both have a 50:50 with MK, yay!)

Not to mention, both of them are SO FREAKING HARD TO KILL!

Snake has bad matchups with a lot of characters? Lol.
Plus Marth only has one bad matchup as well, so the top three should be Metaknight, Marth, and Wario amirite?

 

[ssbbFICTION]

lol, you going to CoT4. I'll show you why I posted what I did

Well I don't know how you measure up to edrees but I play him quite often <3

 

[DMG]

But for example, MK and Wario are in a neutral position. MK's retreating aerials, whilst easily avoidable, aren't going to be stopped by you. This doesn't really force MK to be offensive. You say if you get a lead and run away, then they have to be more offensive, but how will you get a lead in the first place theoretically? MK seems to have a safe option for every Wario approach. Also, even if offensive MK is easier to punish, MK can still stay relatively safe on approach. Walking F Tilt, spaced F Air's, how can Wario deal with this?

I agree with your proposition that Wario can run away however.

Boost smash > Retreating aerials. Will beat anything when timed right except Dair, and if he is using Dair then you could just hit him from the front instead of below him.

Ftilt, on the other hand, does cover a lot of range and is hard to get past, but in the air Wario get's through it easily.

Running from MK is actually kinda fun, I did it to a guy last tournament and he had less than 1 minute to kill me. He started that stock at 40% and I started at 0% and I got him all the way to 92% just punishing his approaches where as he barely got me to 16% and then I killed him. However, trying to do it for longer than, say 2 minutes, is very tedious and if you aren't careful he just might hit you. If you do it well enough though, you can smile as you dodge and punish Nado, Shuttle Loop, and anything he throws at you.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I read this entire thread, and I don't play Wario. I am now interested in playing Wario.

 

[Bowser King]

What? o_O I've been coloring my posts since like May. O.o

LIES!!!

*cough*

Anyway, I still not sure about wario being top tier but it's seems plausible.

-Bowser King

 

[Emblem Lord]

Don't people ever get tired of overhyping their main?

That said this is hilarious.

HEY GUYS, I JUST FOUND OUT WARIO IS GOOD AT RUNNING AWAY!!!

How could you not know this the moment you notice his incredible aerial speed? The majority of gameplay is essentially running away. He waves in and out of his opponents zone to attack and retreat.

First off, why the hell were you guys even talking about match-ups when you weren't doing this in the first place?

When you talk match-ups you are abusing the best possible strats available to you and trying to figure out what your opponent can do to stop it.

Secondly this isn't unstoppable. If it is, then you are just further proving why this game is crap.

But I digress.

As I said, it's not unstoppable. It's tedious and annoying. All you are doing is sitting on a lead which is very effective but it's mostly only because it can be frustrating to try to take back control and chase an opponent down.

 

[DMG]

Don't people ever get tired of overhyping their main?

That said this is hilarious.

HEY GUYS, I JUST FOUND OUT WARIO IS GOOD AT RUNNING AWAY!!!

How could you not know this the moment you notice his incredible aerial speed? The majority of gameplay is essentially running away. He waves in and out of his opponents zone to attack and retreat.

First off, why the hell were you guys even talking about match-ups when you weren't doing this in the first place?

We talked about his matchups, we just viewed them wrong. We assumed for some of his harder matchups that we always had to approach, when we could just get a lead and run around the place.

We already knew he was good in the air, fast and nimble, but we haven't really thought about doing that for nearly the entire match, using it to run away completely.

With a different mindset though, we do need to go over to character boards and rediscuss it. I've already done so on a few character boards, and some are busy with their own character of the week so we are waiting for them to be through completely and then go over him again. At least we are trying to go over them now, instead of waiting a few months or people catching on from our vids and then trying to discuss it even further down the road.

When you talk match-ups you are abusing the best possible strats available to you and trying to figure out what your opponent can do to stop it.

Secondly this isn't unstoppable. If it is, then you are just further proving why this game is crap.

But I digress.

As I said, it's not unstoppable. It's tedious and annoying. All you are doing is sitting on a lead which is very effective but it's mostly only because it can be frustrating to try to take back control and chase an opponent down.

For a lot of characters, this is very hard to stop. Dedede for example, has terrible Horizontal air Speed and a below average running speed, so you can imagine how hard this is for him (If you saw Fiction vs DSF on Smashville, it was a fairly good example of this). Most characters with a lesser air speed/poor overall air-games have trouble hitting Wario in the air. Characters that do not excel at approaching are also in trouble; Zelda may be better than average on the ground, but when she is forced to approach she struggles.

I will agree with you, it is tedious vs certain characters, it gets boring pretty fast, but with money on the line I wouldn't stop doing it.

 

[Turbo Ether]

First off, why the hell were you guys even talking about match-ups when you weren't doing this in the first place?

When you talk match-ups you are abusing the best possible strats available to you and trying to figure out what your opponent can do to stop it.

They weren't aware of the best possible strat at the time. Hell, I would assume that the majority of people aren't aware of the best possible strat for their character in every single matchup. I still don't know how to optimally deal with Olimar as Snake for example.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This only helps in match-ups where Wario already did well.

It does little to help against characters he already lost too.

Dedede is arguable but he can just throw ****. You can try to eat it too of course, BUT he does have an answer.

 

[PhantomX]

Fiction made DSF switch characters b/c of this strat, and he used to just go straight D3 against Futile, do the math.

And Blistering, I don't know, I usually get quick grabs or dairs off on MKs early on, so then I start with the lead. They can retake it very easily though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

As I said, Dedede is one match-up.

And one fight at one tourney doesn't prove anything.

Don't be silly.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

As I said, Dedede is one match-up.

And one fight at one tourney doesn't prove anything.

Don't be silly.

It also has won me every game against DEHF's ddd in while we train.....which isn't just one fight. His ddd is actually really good btw and I have a lot of trouble beating him without this strat.

Fiction made DSF switch characters b/c of this strat, and he used to just go straight D3 against Futile, do the math.

And Blistering, I don't know, I usually get quick grabs or dairs off on MKs early on, so then I start with the lead. They can retake it very easily though.

He actually used to go MK on futile every match and occasionally snake. Futile beat his DDD at axis so he went MK on him ever since since he almost always won.

 

[Emblem Lord]

And NOW, we can start to acknowledge the legitimacy of this strat.

I was playing Devil's advocate before.

When something works only once, you can't go flying off the handle. When it's put to the test time and again and stood up to those tests is when you can start jerking off to your amazing strats.

Anyway, this would hurt Dedede of course since he is too **** big and slow.

But other then him, Snake, maybe G&W and characters Wario already beats I don't think it will help him out that much.

Although it might mean Wario's will now place more consistently overall if Dedede is no longer a huge threat.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

And NOW, we can start to acknowledge the legitimacy of this strat.

I was playing Devil's advocate before.

When something works only once, you can't go flying off the handle. When it's put to the test time and again and stood up to those tests is when you can start jerking off to your amazing strats.

Anyway, this would hurt Dedede of course since he is too **** big and slow.

But other then him, Snake, maybe G&W and characters Wario already beats I don't think it will help him out that much.

Although it might mean Wario's will now place more consistently overall if Dedede is no longer a huge threat.

This also helps against peach/ike players who like to wall out aerials at you.

 

[PhantomX]

I'd done it for a while against the D3s I play, as I'd stated before, but no one really cares, so I went with a more recent, prominent example.

 

[UltimateRazer]

dmg is top tier. :D

Wario is seriously underrated though.

 

[DMG]

And NOW, we can start to acknowledge the legitimacy of this strat.

I was playing Devil's advocate before.


When something works only once, you can't go flying off the handle. When it's put to the test time and again and stood up to those tests is when you can start jerking off to your amazing strats.

It's cool, playing Devil's advocate is almost too fun at times.

Lol@ Jerkin off to strats.

Anyway, this would hurt Dedede of course since he is too **** big and slow.

But other then him, Snake, maybe G&W and characters Wario already beats I don't think it will help him out that much.

Although it might mean Wario's will now place more consistently overall if Dedede is no longer a huge threat.

Yeah Dedede really does suffer from this, Snake and G&W to a smaller extent on most stages.

What I am hoping is that this will improve his matchups with characters even if it doesn't turn things enough into our favor. Characters like Marth will probably always be a pain in Wario's A**, but at least this helps some.

 

[hunger!]

mkay i had to throw my input on in this discussion.

i main wario.
hes fun to play.
camping and playing gay may be effective.
but no thanks to that strat.
that is all.

 

[DMG]

mkay i had to throw my input on in this discussion.

i main wario.
hes fun to play.
camping and playing gay may be effective.
but no thanks to that strat.
that is all.

But it IS fun to do to certain characters lol.

 

[AfroQT]

Not trying to undermine either fiction or DSF's D3.
But seibrik has never had a problem with runaway warios (me).

Not claiming to be a amazing wario, but i'd assume i'm pretty decent to always place top 2 at any tourney in FL (as well as beating/gettingclose to beating alot of top players).

Seibrik rushes down with d3 very well, and is very good at creating a wall thats difficult to get past.

 

[Timbers]

For a lot of characters, this is very hard to stop. Dedede for example, has terrible Horizontal air Speed and a below average running speed, so you can imagine how hard this is for him (If you saw Fiction vs DSF on Smashville, it was a fairly good example of this).

Keep in mind that Wario being able to camp on a platform away from the stage also aided Fiction a lot in that match. A match later DSF 2stocks him on FD. It's one extreme to another. I definitely want to see how this plays out for Wario, but perhaps on stages that don't heavily favor one or the other character. When the plats aren't extended from the stage itself, DDD can actually do some damage there, and does have quite a decent rush game, especially if that DDD can take advantage of landing frames.

 

[DMG]

Keep in mind that Wario being able to camp on a platform away from the stage also aided Fiction a lot in that match. A match later DSF 2stocks him on FD. It's one extreme to another. I definitely want to see how this plays out for Wario, but perhaps on stages that don't heavily favor one or the other character. When the plats aren't extended from the stage itself, DDD can actually do some damage there, and does have quite a decent rush game, especially if that DDD can take advantage of landing frames.

Nah, Fiction just approached him too much when he should have continued running away. He had a lead and he could have been uber campy the entire match but he would camp, run in and try to attack some, and he got punished for it.

Even on FD, Wario can camp him. I've camped Snake on FD, dodging grenades, Mortar Slides, and everything. It's really boring, and tedious, but if you are prepared to do it for 8 minutes then it is hard to get around.

 

[Emblem Lord]

*Marth swings in through the window to save the day from Wario's camping villainy

"Fear not!!", the blue haired swordsman says.

" I swing my sword...and GOOD STUFF HAPPENS!!!"

*Watches Marth slice open Wario as he tries to camp in vain and candy flows out of him after he gets gutted.

YAY MARTH!!!!

 

[DMG]

*Marth swings in through the window to save the day from Wario's camping villainy

"Fear not!!", the blue haired swordsman says.

" I swing my sword...and GOOD STUFF HAPPENS!!!"

*Watches Marth slice open Wario as he tries to camp in vain and candy flows out of him after he gets gutted.

YAY MARTH!!!!

Lol.

Wario is NOT a pinata sir, as a White Male I was offended by that statement.

Besides, we already made it clear that Marth is just one of those characters that will probably **** Wario for all eternity. Fair enough? :D

 

[PhantomX]

I want to play like... an amazing Marth that will **** me. So far I haven't, but I know the matchup is a tremendous ***** :\

 

[slikvik]

I'm not sure about marth anymore. I've going over to neos place quite a bit recently. He beats me the majority of the time...but I'm thinking its only because he's just a way better player. Our games are a lot closer than the we're previously...and even when the damage taken/given ratio is heavily in his favor(like 500 something to 200something) it'll only be a 1 stock. A month ago I believed it was hopeless. He'd just 2-3 stock me and I'd switch to G&W for the rest of the time...

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, that seems to be the case for me. I tank damage like no other, but it's always close. I know it's a disadvantage, and one of the gayest matchups for us, but I don't think it's as tremendously disadvantaged as I used to believe... which is why I want to play a beastly one, lol.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You guys talk like this match is supposed to be 70/30 or something. >_>

I always considered it 60/40.

65/35 at worst.