Wario as Top Tier?

[ssbbFICTION]

In my experience you need a platform for this to work on D3. I got very impatient on FD because no matter how much I've tried it in the past, it simply does not work there. You get pivot grabbed and stuff when you least expect it since you are forced to land on the ground 100 percent of the time, instead of getting to land on platforms and stuff.

I absolutely loooooove when marth players say that have a big advantage. I used to have a horrible time in the matchup but lately its gotten to be quite a bit easier...and I think bardull claims it to be an even match now lol. At at 90-100 person tourney around here the other day (normal socal turnout for most tourneys XD) I beat

Bardull
Mikehaze
BoA

All 3 in a row....so I'm beginning to think that the matchup is more even, or maybe its just my style. Marth's attacks are all slow and easy to punish, which makes this matchup a lot easier than most warios think. I think wario's 3 worst matchups are

1. DDD
2. GaW
3. Luigi

or something similar. Luigi maybe even worse than GW IMO (lol i probably missed a really obvious bad matchup in there somewhere XD)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pleas tell me which of Marth's attacks are slow. Excluding smash attacks of course.

 

[PhantomX]

Game and Watch and Luigi are NOT hard if you know how to play them, not at all. GW is EVEN at worst (for us), Hylian and I play extensively enough for us to know this. Luigi might have slight advantage, but his aerial control is so ZETTA slow that we can bait him easier than anyone, and bite wrecks him. Marth's aerials are all quick, he can attack fast enough to punish airdodges if in a correct position, which almost no one else can do. He may not be as hard as we used to think, but he's above those two for sure (maybe above all of them), and he's still a pain.

But yes, it's only his grounded moves that are slow (DB excluded), and what Marth spends his time on the ground unless he's trying to finish a stock?

 

[Emblem Lord]

7 frame d-tilt and 4 frame jab is slow?

My god.

Do you guys play Marvel vs Capcom 2 all day or something?

You must be used to some stupid fast attacks to call those slow.

 

[PhantomX]

7 frame d-tilt and 4 frame jab is slow?

My god.

Do you guys play Marvel vs Capcom 2 all day or something?

You must be used to some stupid fast attacks to call those slow.

I don't see Marth's jab very often, so I totally remembered it being slower than that (guess it isn't), and the dtilt totally slipped my mind there, that one is used plenty.

But yeah, it probably all has to do with the fact htat Marth likes the air so I don't see the grounded non finisher moves all that much.

 

[Timbers]

But yes, it's only his grounded moves that are slow (DB excluded)

dtilt, utilt

 

[DMG]

Lol Luigi? I think we have the advantage over him. Don't try to rush him down, and think about this:

He moves slowly horizontally in the air.

He slides back far when you hit his shield.

He has trouble running and then turning around fast and going the other direction.

Luigi is SCREAMING to get camped... Seriously if you just shield whatever he does in the air, counter attack a few times, and then run, I don't see him catching you soon. As best, he can use DownB on the ground to try and catch you, and at worst you get hit by one hitbox and take like, 3%?

Even without camping, at worst I see Luigi as even.

G&W I think we beat, tournament results are pointing at us heavily.

Dedede... I dunno. I still think you can camp him on FD, but it is fairly hard to do it on that map. If you strike/ban that map, then he doesn't have many options left if he wants a FD-like stage.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

>:~[

you guys are literally never going to listen to a word I say are you. lol. when I said slow moves I meant that marth has slow AERIALS lol. When he stands on the ground he gets *****. And I'm not saying they COME OUT SLOWLY emblem lord >:{ I'm saying that they LAST A LONG TIME

 

[PhantomX]

How is aerials that last a long time bad against us (even though his are quick)? o_O Unless he misses completely or ****s up spacing terribly, that's a good thing. He can use two before landing, enough to hit us before we can react after our airdodge.... again, that's balls.

And we do listen to you Fiction, just not when you're wrong

 

[stnapknah]

What do you guys think of Green Greens as a camping stage? I just played my friend's DDD there and since I knew he could infinite me in 4 different places, i just camped the **** out of him. It ended with me at 18% on my first stock and him with 2 stocks before he said "this is bs" and suicided. lol
It might not be the best option against DDD, but it might work VERY WELL on others. Your opponent has very limited approaches on that stage... your guys' thoughts?

 

[PhantomX]

It works fine. Blocks get in the way though (this affects both people, however), and are a threat, but you can run pretty well on it.

 

[DMG]

What do you guys think of Green Greens as a camping stage? I just played my friend's DDD there and since I knew he could infinite me in 4 different places, i just camped the **** out of him. It ended with me at 18% on my first stock and him with 2 stocks before he said "this is bs" and suicided. lol
It might not be the best option against DDD, but it might work VERY WELL on others. Your opponent has very limited approaches on that stage... your guys' thoughts?

It's cramped, but very dangerous for Wario. Sitting on one wall of the blocks and just waiting is pretty hard to safely counter for most characters, they usually get hit trying to fall with an aerial or even occasionally a bomb will either fall or they will attack it. If you are shielding, it is glorious lol.

 

[stnapknah]

Alright, I'm glad you guys agree but the reason I brought this up was to maybe highlight some characters that this would work really well on... Luigi for example? Any others you guys can think of?

Would it work on Marth?

 

[PhantomX]

Hiding behind a wall could work quite nicely against Marth, actually. He could also trigger the bombs without getting hurt b/c he has disjointed hitboxes, though.

 

[DMG]

Alright, I'm glad you guys agree but the reason I brought this up was to maybe highlight some characters that this would work really well on... Luigi for example? Any others you guys can think of?

Would it work on Marth?

Luigi would hate this stage lol. Marth would have some trouble if you get the lead and go over towards the side, but I dunno I need to try that out next time. Dtilt lock would be nasty, Grab release to Tipper Fsmash would be bad too near the edge, but aside from that I think it would be pretty good.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth can't d-tilt lock on this stage.

His d-tilt moves him forward when he does it in rapid succession.

He would eventually hit the blocks and the combo would end.

 

[DMG]

Marth can't d-tilt lock on this stage.

His d-tilt moves him forward when he does it in rapid succession.

He would eventually hit the blocks and the combo would end.

3 Dtilts into grab into Tipper Utilt, Fsmash, Nair, etc would still SUCK *** lol. Seriously though, that would suck really bad.

What about if the lower block is destroyed, but a middle block isn't? Would he poke in the "hole" and miss the upper block? I haven't tried that out yet, I dunno if Dtilt's vertical hitbox extends that high or not.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Whoops. Forgot about the upper blocks.

Ah, well.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Marth can Dtilt lock you, but he has to set the blocks up in such a way to let him do it, and he can do it to around 700-800% as well. He would need to take out the first and I think the middle block, and toss you into that little hole, he would then need to Dtilt you, and you would be literally stuck until he feels like Fsmashing you to your doom, doesn't even need to be tipped since your at so high.

 

[Pwneroni]

first of all, this thread ***** hard. where can i find vids of fiction in tournament? i reeeeeeally want to see those, because i want to see this stragety in action. i came up with something similar a while ago, but i never air camped long enough to make the opponent approach.

my wario is pretty good, but im definitely not at the major tournament winning level yet. ive only won 1 local tournament (i beat t0mmy's ROB in the grand finals), but i think my problem is being too aggressive. I need to see the camping strategy in action so i can buff up my game a bit.

 

[Pwneroni]

my worst matchups are zelda and DDD, all they do is force me to approach. =\

 

[Blistering Speed]

You guys talk like this match is supposed to be 70/30 or something. >_>

I always considered it 60/40.

65/35 at worst.

That's very bad in comparison to the rest of Wario's matchups, except DDD, but we don't know how much this new strategy effects the matchup numbers for him.

Besides, we already made it clear that Marth is just one of those characters that will probably **** Wario for all eternity. F air enough? :D

Fixed.