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Dabuz

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@First- it was what I saw from you that I found interesting at the time. Can you explain what you got from it?

KBG's sarcastic "yes i'm scum" response showed me he was irritated about the pressure. That's something I find more in townies and as a result made me not care to pressure him, but instead look at people on his wagon.

Your responses make you look overly concerned or anxious for some reason and someone I definitely want to keep an eye on.
 

Dabuz

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That's it. It was a bad push, but it wasn't one that seemed legit either. That's why I'm saying it's not really content, but fake content. To me him asking about that isn't legit because it doesn't seem like a legit concern. Zen explained that it was something he would do with a scum buddy but I can't really see much of a problem without a scumflip first, so I don't see why he would get a problem with that. To me it just seemed like an opportunity for Zen to phone in content which he had NOT been giving. Also you mention that you thought it was odd zen backed out, to me I feel he was trying to put doubt on Soup by asking "Wait you don't town read him?" but then Soup asked Zen if he was town reading him and said no, and really had no reason to push that because he himself didn't read you as town. I don't know why soup is getting a prob with you but hopefully he can show that soon.
True, so either way we can agree that Zen wasn't really trying to scumhunt there, he could have easily just wanted to post without placing risk or responsibility on himself. That's why I want to understand Zen's reads ATM and see where he is going.
 

Ranmaru

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I would like to know too, I would also like a vote from him but then he's waiting on others to do his work for him.
 

Ranmaru

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Orbo, why are you voting Vinyl if you keep talking about me? You haven't even talked about him.
 

Ranmaru

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Really? How are you conflicted on me now? What's taking so long for you to commit? The only time you did committ was when you were following Joey. Now you are using the excuse of piling on with Yolo and you ain't doing a damn thing.

Zen isn't doing anything either, so why haven't you voted him? What's your read on him?
 

Orboknown

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Zen has done stuff. He's nulltown.
I've constantly stated i'm hovering between scum and town on you. I don't need to vote to do stuff ran. I'm interacting with you and Dabuz and Joker in the meantime.
 

Ranmaru

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Tell me, what has Zen done? Why is he null-town to you?

You seem to be liking me less on the last page and this page, yet you still have me as null. Seems like you are trying to play it safe with me.
 

#HBC | Joker

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Orbo reads scummy. He's grasping at straws a lot, like he wants an excuse to push someone, and is trying really hard to legitimize whatever he can.

Joey seems like he's scumhunting for realz. He's town. He's stating his suspicion of ran, but he's not jumping his vote around, because he's trying to make a push. The back and forth with ran is just getting in the way, quite frankly.

For Ran, it's almost the exact same thing. Like, completely so. It's like they're the same person, shouting at themself on the street in disagreement. Like a crazy homeless person.
 

#HBC | Joker

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I'm conflicted on you and vinyl needs votes on ihm to do **** at all.
Vinyl isn't going to be affected by your vote and you know it. I've seen Vinyl not give a **** about being at L-1 as really important townroles before. Stop trying to sit your vote someplace safe.
 

Dooms

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@Ranmaru/Dabuz: The thing with the Orbo push is that honestly, if you look at it, we kind of sheeped eachother, so accusing him of sheeping and not accusing me... it kind of looks silly honestly.

Notice that he unvoted before I did. If you look close enough, he started rethinking things because of the same exact thing that Zen stated, and he eventually backed off and unvoted.

That alone makes me about 95% solid that he had the same mindset as me going into it. I just made it first to the punch. You can't have a push like this on someone simply for being late to the party. Just because he didn't explain his vote right away doesn't mean that he was sheeping, and if he really were sheeping and if he really wasn't thinking like me, then he wouldn't have unvoted until I did.

Well, pressure for the sake of pressure in RVS isn't a bad thing. I've seen it in a lot of Dgames by a townie so it's not a strong basis for a case IMO. Outside of that his "play" is largely defending that pressure he applied to KBG with giant walls that feel like they repeat themselves.
Okay, so like, I'm not building any case on him because he pressured KBG.

Look at the way he went about doing so. He pressed him for so little and it seemed like he was making a legitimate (but terrible) case on him. Saying that his "weird, but nice" statement actually had any value whatsoever in that post alone (it doesn't), which is really grimy in and of itself, but let's leave that aside because it's not scummy on it's own.

Consider the fact that after questioning him on a few things regarding this and getting snarky responses, I state a silly (but serious at the same time) response regarding the fact that KBG asked if roles were public, even though he said that roles were weird, but nice. Ranmaru sees that and doesn't question anything else regarding his previous play.

When I call him out on his cruddy push (I did go in depth later, as when I re-read it, there were more and more things that I noticed that seemed weird about the whole scenario), he doesn't say anything about it being pressure at all, though. Instead of saying that it has anything to do with pressure, all he says regarding this is something along the lines of "It's okay to have a crappy push on the second page", as if to throw himself into the clear. If he were to say that he was pressuring, then honestly I wouldn't have made anything out of it. On the contrary, he went out of his way to make it obvious through context clues that he believed that what KBG was doing was suspicious. This is when I realized that it wasn't just pressure, he actually tried to push that crap case and then go with mine once his went down the crapper.

If it was just for pressuring KBG, I would 100% be off of this case, but it took him until page 7-8 to even mention or imply anything about this being specifically for pressure, and it was in the post that Ranmaru put so much crap into to make it seem like a TvS between us, where he tried to force his town read on himself down everyone's throat, and where he tried to compare my push to his and said I leeched off of his initial push (the one that I openly said was idiotic and pointless prior to even starting an argument with Ranmaru).

Do those walls of defending his pressure make you think he's townie, or do you think it's null?
 

Ranmaru

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Nah you took your own reasoning for it. He sheeped you. That isnt the only thing. He is parking his vote on vynil and is wishy washy. He hopped on kb. He is keeping a safe distance with his read on me.
 

Dooms

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Saying it was pressure when you said it was pressure would have also defeated the purpose.

Even if you were waiting until I was a higher priority, you still could have said it way before you did. Instead, you kept on arguing with your "We're only two pages in" excuse. Saying it was pressure in that really crappy post made it really obvious that you were saying it was pressure just to get me off of your back.

I'm not arguing this anymore. We've run this river dry. I still feel that you have done absolutely nothing to change my mind about you and your play, and the feeling is probably mutual, and we're just going in circles at this point.
 

Dooms

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He didn't sheep me lol. Do you really think it is a coincidence that we voted and unvoted him for the exact same reason, one of us voting before the other, and one of us unvoting before the other? It is pretty clear that we were on the same wavelength with the KBG push.
 

Dooms

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Vinyl's play is eh. I don't mind having a vote there, but unlike PJB, I have only played maybe one game with Vinyl where he did nothing the whole game? I don't know if voting him helps at all, but parking his vote on Vinyl to get him involved doesn't necessarily seem like a bad thing to me, especially considering that it seems like he no longer has a full-on scum read.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Vote Count

1. PB+J
2. Vinyl. (2) - YOLOSWAG, Orboknown
3. -Masquerain- (1) - Keybladeguy
4. dabuz
5. soup
6. -Vocal-
7. Orboknown (2) - Ranmaru, soup
8. Keybladeguy
9. Zen (1) - Vinyl.
10. Ranmaru
11. YOLOSWAG

Note voting: PB+J, -Vocal-, Zen, Joey, dabuz

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 08/29/13 at 11_59pm EST.​
 

Ranmaru

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No he did he said he voted cuz he agreed with you. Not his own reasoning.

He isnt looking for scum. He keeps talking about me but doesnt vote me. Him votibg vinyl is bad. Zen is in the same boat but he says zen has done stuff, which aint true.

Phone btw
 

#HBC | Dancer

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MOD notes:

Vocal has been prodded, but I will not force replace him . . . yet. If I prod him another two times then I will remove him from the game.

Masquerain = Joey in the vote counts btw.
 

Ranmaru

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He didn't sheep me lol. Do you really think it is a coincidence that we voted and unvoted him for the exact same reason, one of us voting before the other, and one of us unvoting before the other? It is pretty clear that we were on the same wavelength with the KBG push.

He voted Keyblade while reacting to a post of mine, not KB's. This shows he didn't pick up anything on his OWN, he never had concerns, he just hopped on and then forgot to mention "Oh yeah I voted KB because I agree with Joey". Yeah, it's sheeping. He then explains that I'm scum with KB, with the same reasoning that you used. That's sheeping. He's not fully pushing ME, he's only sitting on Vinyl after being convinced by Zen. Yes, it is bad for him to be parking his vote there and I can't believe you'd let him do that.
 

Dabuz

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@Ranmaru/Dabuz: The thing with the Orbo push is that honestly, if you look at it, we kind of sheeped eachother, so accusing him of sheeping and not accusing me... it kind of looks silly honestly.

Notice that he unvoted before I did. If you look close enough, he started rethinking things because of the same exact thing that Zen stated, and he eventually backed off and unvoted.

That alone makes me about 95% solid that he had the same mindset as me going into it. I just made it first to the punch. You can't have a push like this on someone simply for being late to the party. Just because he didn't explain his vote right away doesn't mean that he was sheeping, and if he really were sheeping and if he really wasn't thinking like me, then he wouldn't have unvoted until I did.



Okay, so like, I'm not building any case on him because he pressured KBG.

Look at the way he went about doing so. He pressed him for so little and it seemed like he was making a legitimate (but terrible) case on him. Saying that his "weird, but nice" statement actually had any value whatsoever in that post alone (it doesn't), which is really grimy in and of itself, but let's leave that aside because it's not scummy on it's own.

Consider the fact that after questioning him on a few things regarding this and getting snarky responses, I state a silly (but serious at the same time) response regarding the fact that KBG asked if roles were public, even though he said that roles were weird, but nice. Ranmaru sees that and doesn't question anything else regarding his previous play.

When I call him out on his cruddy push (I did go in depth later, as when I re-read it, there were more and more things that I noticed that seemed weird about the whole scenario), he doesn't say anything about it being pressure at all, though. Instead of saying that it has anything to do with pressure, all he says regarding this is something along the lines of "It's okay to have a crappy push on the second page", as if to throw himself into the clear. If he were to say that he was pressuring, then honestly I wouldn't have made anything out of it. On the contrary, he went out of his way to make it obvious through context clues that he believed that what KBG was doing was suspicious. This is when I realized that it wasn't just pressure, he actually tried to push that crap case and then go with mine once his went down the crapper.

If it was just for pressuring KBG, I would 100% be off of this case, but it took him until page 7-8 to even mention or imply anything about this being specifically for pressure, and it was in the post that Ranmaru put so much crap into to make it seem like a TvS between us, where he tried to force his town read on himself down everyone's throat, and where he tried to compare my push to his and said I leeched off of his initial push (the one that I openly said was idiotic and pointless prior to even starting an argument with Ranmaru).

Do those walls of defending his pressure make you think he's townie, or do you think it's null?

Giant walls that repeat themselves, gah!

I understand what your case is and your points are, I think my responses to Orbo fit well enough here.

He's a town lean of mine, your walls aren't convincing me to think otherwise.
 
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Oh yeh.
unvote

Let me finish up some stuff on my tumblr page and share on reddit, blah blah. I'll be back here reading an seeing orbo's stuff so I can immediately say he gives me scum vibes.
 

Xivii

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First let's knock some points against each other out of the way.

1. Ran's ^ post: It makes perfect sense for Orbo to have perceived Ran as pointing that post of KGB specifically as scummy. Like "welp there you go zen ^". But that is not the case. Ran had already had KGB in his head and then after KGB posted, he simply said "^that is my first one zen". So neither of you are scummy on that. That's clearly a misunderstanding between the two of you.

2. Joey's reasoning on Ran: You keep claiming that Joey/Orbo see/saw your push on KGB as scummy simply because your reasoning was weak.. That is not the case. They saw your push as scummy because of HOW HARD you pushed with that reasoning.

3. My input on the KGB situation: Ran you keep saying that I responded for KGB, but I didn't. He already responded and I then gave my input because pjb or orbo were still going on about it and I thought it was clear that everyone was seeing it from the wrong perspective. You ignore the fact that I feel that KBG didn't even realize the misunderstanding so why would I "wait for him to defend himself" when he doesn't even know what to defend against? [rhetorical question]

His response:
yes, i am scum. You've caught me.
Why'd i ask? Idk, forgetfulness i guess.

After that you ask him a question, he doesn't follow up, then that's that. He leaves for V/LA. I later see Orbo /pjb talking about it and I give my input, simple as that.

The odd thing here is that when defending against Joey's point's you agree that it had already been resolved, so then why are you claiming that for me to say it was already resolved as not valid??? [rhetorical question]

Quote (bolded):
There isn't any reason I wouldn't do this as town. I pressured him, got a reaction, and got the ball rolling. No you are adding reasoning to make your 'weak reasoning = scummy' somehow valid. He gave me his explanation. It didn't help me at all. Me asking is townie. I was wondering why he did that, so asking for his explanation isn't hopping on, (a townie would ask for an explanation) what is hopping on is Orbo voting Keyblade without reasoning, something you also haven't commented on. Eventually, I went to sleep and KB went VLA, and I found something stronger than Keyblade. Remember how Keyblade was pretty close to a gut read? And my reasoning reflects that, since it was his attitude that I found odd. Yet you don't want to admit that. In that case, there was nothing I could do but wait on his play to develop, which is yet to be judged since he is VLA.
Yes, my reasoning is allowed to be weak on page 2. I mean seriously. You do the same thing in RVS. If you really have a problem with me having weak reasoning on page 2, then you should have a problem with people giving names To zen without reason, and also for people randomly voting with random.org, but you DON'T. Thus is why you only care to handwave my explanation as an excuse. And don't tell me "No I'm not gonna don't try to deflect blah blah" because me having weak reasoning is BETTER than a random vote, AND it gave a good foundation to rvs and the game. It helped me gain the reads I have now.

Also saying "You could do this as scum" isn't saying that that is my intent. That's you saying that I COULD do that. It doesn't what I was doing, and this means you are trying to use that to be able to scumread me. I could also be doing that to pressure him, and to get the ball rolling, and to push him to get a reaction. Oh wait. That's what I was doing, but you only want to consider the other option, without really reading what it is.

Also no. You can reply to me however you want. But I'm telling it like it is. I'm not unhappy with how you are responding, I just find your actions suspicious.


4. Orbo sheeping Joey: Ran your definition of sheeping is completely wrong. Simply because two people have the same reasoning does not mean that the other is sheeping. Sheeping is when one person is not thinking at all and just blatantly follows someone (see Red Ruy sheeping KevMo in Scott Pilgrim). Someone can either simply agree with someone or come the same conclusion on their own and it is not sheeping.

Alright so these are the facts that we needed clearing. No more tailoring these points to your will, Ranmaru. I don't want you to respond to any of this other than "OK".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions posed at me.

Actually...

This makes me think that he wasn't talking about flavor. Why would he bring this up 20 or so posts after saying "wow, this flavor is weird, but nice"? Zen, answer this for me, please.

I think he was just mentioning that in hindsight. Like he had to know it was wal-mart mafia in order to find the thread right? IDK this is pretty weird to me too lol. But yeah I think he was just mentioning it late even though he already took notice of it. I don't know if he is trying to purposefully play ignorant, but I don't believe so because otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned how much experience he has (which is a lot). Also the way that he has just been so careless to form an impression and his instant responses to anyone he interacts with gives me a town read on him.

I have no idea why, and think that Soup will have to explain that. What do you mean? He replied to PJB before. He's talked with him a bit. Even so I don't see how you can prove this without a scumflip from either of them, and I'm not feeling scum from either individually.
Exactly why I stopped. You claimed I had no reasoning for questioning him. I'm showing you that I did. I'm not saying that it's a reason to push him at the moment in any way :) Please don't answer to this with anything but "ok". (It will be ignored if you do).

zen what did you get form your back and forth with soup?
Eh nothing much really. It was just something I wanted clarification on. He answered my questions well so there wasn't any more reason for me to go into my incredibly mild suspicions. At this point soup is more scum that town but more in the null since he hasn't really done much as of yet. But the fact that I keep gaining town reads on other players is just limiting the scum pool in his direction.


zen, I asked dabuns about you because I don't like either of you, and to force a player into giving a stance onto another player who I think could both possibly could be scum helps me read them better based on their answer, along with the other player's reaction to it. I'm not sure why you're jumping to conclusions about something so simple.
See above. Don't worry about it bro.


Orbo and Zen, I would like your opinion on the joey vs ran.
I think you're scum. I think Joey is town. I'll give details below.

dabuz said:
1. Zen, what are your reads on Soup and myself and why?
dabuz said:
2. So it's basically a case of you know Soup's meta and therefore you want to piece together a connection case based on that meta? Does Soup having a gut feeling on me change your read?

1. I have a town read on you from #266 on. I have a slight scum read/maybe PR read on soup.
2. No, the relation to our newbie game came after the fact. I've been using pure logging in Microsoft Excel to determine the kinds of interactions people are having. The people that soup has spoken to directly is as follows: joe dab orb pjborb dab zen orb zen pjb orb pjb zen pjb orb pjb ran. Notice there is a specific grouping. Soup is keeping the amount of interactions he is having minimized (pointing to why I am leaning in the scum direction for him). Of the people he has spoken to, you aren't the only one I find as weird. I also find the way he has been talking to pjb as weird. Why I specifically asked him about you though was because he had this weird unwarranted friendliness towards you and the questions he was asking you were not relevant to each other or your posts (where as the questions he asked joey were relevant to joey's posts and the situation). Now while I'm on this anyways I just want to say what I find weird about the way soup has been approaching pjb is that the first couple of posts he "interacted" with pjb he didn't really speak to pjb directly but rather just quoted his posts and said some indirect stuff. I just get this strong traitor vibe from soup which is why I have been interested in the way he interacts with some people.

I think those are all the questions that have been addressed towards me. Let me know if I missed any.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scum Read on Ran.

Summary: Ran doesn't seem to be fairly analyzing this game. Instead he seems to be just picking a people he can go after and then tunnel them no matter what their responses. Like, Joey Orbo and I have been giving some pretty reasonable responses imo, but no matter what we say Ran says it's wrong, twists it, or adds on more to it. I think it's faulty to assume that Ran cannot be active as scum. It's something he has been trying to work on. He was fairly active Scott Pilgrim as scum. I thin this aggressive approach he is doing is some new kind of style and perhaps a way to keep him interested in the game by emulating the persona. HOW we should judge Ran (and anyone) is not by his (their) meta, but by this game. Ran is blatantly misusing terms and aggressively pushing points that he has been shown is wrong. I think this is very much indicative of scum agenda.

#196
There is so much wrong with this post. Ran is twisting everything about Orbo. The claiming that Orbo was sheeping when it was clear that Orbo simply had the same reason as Joey (as I mentioned above, that is not sheeping). The claiming that Orbo didn't explain why he unvoted KBG when he did:

I'm pretty sure kbg (russian?) was talking about the flavor of the roles ie his role pm and the sample role @_@....
what leads you to believe that?
It seems pretty obvious lol. The flavor is unique and he made the statement right after he received his role pm. He also mentioned how he is used to just playing straight up mafia. So I imagine that his reaction was not to the roles, but to the flavor of the roles.
Why wouldn't he just mention that right away he was talking about his pm though?
need to think about this more.

Ran says that Orbo's unvote was scummy because Orbo didn't explicitly state the reasoning "oh I see he could have been talking about the flavor" in his post. Any person who is ACTUALLY LOOKING at the context of the situation can fill in why Orbo unvoted. Ran is NOT looking at the context of the situation. Ran is not actually analyzing anything at all. He is trying to make points against Orbo with whatever he can no matter how illogical it is. He want's to be perceived as actually believing his push, but it is clear that he is not actually analyzing the situation which is what indicates him as scum.

Another thing Ran is pushing Orbo on is why Orbo is still voting Vinyl at this point. But why is Ran not also applying this to Yolo who has had his vote only on Vinyl the entire game? This is something that Ran has been doing all game, applying certain arguments to his targets despite it being the norm of other players! He has also been getting on me for not having voted yet and "not doing anything" despite me having the 3rd amount of interactions in the game! (Ran > Orbo > Zen > dabuz is where that currently stands). But he says nothing about the lack of soup interactions, the lack of yolo interactions (yolo has only made direct posts to Orbo and myself the entire game! 2 to orbo and 2 to me!). And before today, Joker was in much the same boat. Let's not even talk about vinyl and Vocal. Ran is playing to a specific agenda using arguments for specific players.

Next up: I can't believe no one got into this!
Is there a typo or is it literally you only thought scum was the possibility for his alignment?
This is in response to this:

Joey said:
Not only were you pushing with really weak logic, but as soon as I said something more realistic, you were instantly jumping onto it, and it looked really opportunistic when you did so. The fact that you dropped your original line of logic completely and jumped straight onto mine is pretty sketchy. If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic.
I found it a nice find from you. I never dropped my reasoning on him, I just thought it was a nice extra that you got, and asked him to explain his thought process to see if it was him messing up as scum or literally saying "I forget" to handwave pressure as scum. Still, you have yet to say why 'weak logic' = scum intent. You never explained that, and you are adding reasoning instead of what you originally said.

I think this is an open slip-up by Ran. It shows that he is not looking at the game from an ignorant town stand point of "are these guys town or scum", but rather that he is trying to PROVE people as scum. You guys get what I mean? He is not trying to FIND scum. He is trying to PROVE scum. I think this is icing on the cake. Good job for noticing it Orbo, I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out.


Vote: Ranmaru

Ran's response to Orbo asking for clarification is below :
I was saying I thought he was scum who was either trying to back pedal or just handwave pressure as nonchalant scum, at the time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions for People

Ran: Why do you have a town read on soup? Why do you have a town read on dabuz?
Ran: What do you think of Vinyl so far?
Ran: You said that you find me asking for people to give two names as anti-town. Yolo says he see's how it is pro-town. Does this change your view on either me or him with regards to that? Are you able to see how it is protown?

Yolo: You said earlier that soups "preoccupation" with me is a tell on his alignment. Your reasoning was that he has experience with me and that you feel that him thinking suspicious of me has weight. You then said you don't have him as town. Does that mean that you find me as town and his suspicions unwarranted? Or was your logic just wrong?
Yolo: What is it that you do not like about Joey? Or did not like about him if your view has changed.
Yolo: What is your current take on pjb, vinyl, and dabuz?

Vinyl: Give me a full reads list with reasoning please.

soup: Do you have any scum reads besides Orbo? I'm not exactly sure if you have either me or dabuz as scum reads?
soup:
PJB, lay down your thought process in this game at the moment. You don't have to state reads or anything, I just wanna know how you're approaching this game. You might think it sounds ridiculous for me to ask you this, but it's important how I read you.
What was the purpose for this? Can you give me a couple of examples of how you felt pjb could have answered this and how the way he answered helps you read him?




@Orbo @Joey @Yolo @Vinyl @dabuz @pjb LETS HARDBODY RAN DAFUQ OUTTA HERE
 

Ranmaru

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The two names thing is dumb. Will respond later as im gonna sleep.
 

YOLOSWAG

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unvote vote zenny

new worst post 2013 retracted from orbo and given to zen congrats my man

i cannot WAIT to **** this dude up. ran soup and dabdab assemble this wagon woth me i know yall are seein this bull**** too
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
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6,865
unvote vote zenny

new worst post 2013 retracted from orbo and given to zen congrats my man

i cannot WAIT to **** this dude up. ran soup and dabdab assemble this wagon woth me i know yall are seein this bull**** too

word

vote: zen
 

Xivii

  יזל
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
10,278
lol what?

So obviously yolo is chainsawing for Ran (His attack on Orbo after Orbo said Ran could be scum and now me for saying Ran is scum).

I'll go into the 2 name thing now since that seems to be the only thing against me (even though I would have actually liked to have seen it carry out): Basically I think I'm pretty good with open set-ups. There's a lot you can do with it. Do not take this as an insult but so far I've divided up 4-6 levels of thinking about strategy: I classify them based on their level of importance in chest. So basically from Pawn to Queen. Or Pawn to King. Pawn being the lowest level of thinking, Queen being the highest. I know this isn't the most strategical group sans marshy.


So as I said in the beginning I wanted everyone to post who they think the two scum are because it would limit the traitor and provide a more efficient RVS. Yeah not really.

Pawn level thinking (surface level thinking): A pawn level thinker would propose this plan as scum and as a way to identify their traitor partner or as for the traitor to let his partners know who he is. I imagined that most people would see that this is an obvious trap (bishop thinkers, but it actually turns out that most in this game have been pawn thinking lol).

Bishop level thinking: A bishop level thinker would propose this plan as town as a way to draw the traitor out. You WANT the traitor to make a move. So you can draw connections and discussion. And if you happen to lynch the traitor you have a bit to work with. You also can look at how different people respond to the giving the two names such as dabuz not wanting to show any connection to his name or such as soup actually providing a name without reasoning (I got the vibe of traitor trying to avoid the pawn trap with that).

Rook level thinking: You can even go beyond that. This is my personal reason for why I proposed the plan. My focus was not at all to draw the traitor out, but to draw the MAFIA out. I don't think you guys realize this, it may seem anti-intuitive, but mafia and traitor knowing who each other are is MORE beneficial than a disadvantage! You WANT them to know who they are so they can make connections. You can track certain agenda's and who is avoiding who! What do you think would be harder, playing a game with three individual indies who cannot kill eachother or playing against one scum group of three? Do you see? You want to have the mafia interact with each other, that's the only way you can truly take notice of certain agenda's. So my plan with this was basically to get mafia's focus on finding the traitor rather than simply playing day 1 by going with the flow which usually ends up in a non-scum lynch. I wanted to bait mafia into wanting to use their traitor rather than accidentally happening to bus him because they don't know who he is and thus them getting town points out of chance.

Queen level thinking: Aag I wish so much that I was doctor because this would have been so swagtastic. (and all I would have to do was claim to cease votes on myself). So as doctor not only could you bait mafia into looking for traitor in thread but to tailor their night kills into finding the traitor! I really wanted to get mafia into this mind set of the importance of making connection with their traitor. Haha. (assuming they were at least bishop-level thinkers I think they have been already baited into this...but now it's useless). Now check this out, doctor in this case could use their protect in a special way. Just as mafia they would be on the look out for the traitor. Based on the name thing and interaction. They wouldn't use their doc in the conventional way of protecting someone townie, but rather someone scummy! If they hit a protect on a scummy person who they thought could be traitor based on the previous reasoning, it would semi-confirm it to them that that person is not only the traitor but the mafia also thought that person to be traitor and attempted to recruit him. From there you would look at WHY the MAFIA would think that person was traitor. Alas, you go back to the two names given at the beginning. :3 Mafia would have been baited right into revealing all three of themselves.



Also marshy I REALLY don't care about being lynched lol. Even though you soup and ran have extremely large personalities and thus a lot of pull in the thread (especially with vin, voc, and kgb) I think that Joey and Orbo and dabuz are playing an incredibly powerful game. And even if I die I think they are smart enough to carry through on lynching you. I don't think my dying at this point is to happen, however.

Swag crew I'm changing to Yolo. Reason being that yolo has flat out just revealed himself here. I'm 100% on him, 95% on Ran. The reason why Ran is at 95 is because I can see yolo as doing this in defense of a townie. I'm not exactly sure if he is chainsawing for his scum mate or if he is a Rook-thinker and is laying out the following plan: Lynch Zen town flip, lynch Ran from zen's dying words town flip, yolo seen as town for defending ran.

So yeah Vote: Yolo

Swag CREW I call UPON YOU:

Captain Orbo
Lieutenant Joey
Cadet Vinyly

Let's make war

 

Xivii

  יזל
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
10,278
dabuz KGB and PJB don't think I'm leaving you out, but I don't know which side you lie on right now.

 
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