Walmart Mafia - Game! Capitalism WINS!!!! HAHA **** you commies! =D

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think you're being incredibly paranoid and clinging to old meta to establish a scum-read. You're asking to be burned. Players change and adapt eventually. .

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PJB, lay down your thought process in this game at the moment. You don't have to state reads or anything, I just wanna know how you're approaching this game. You might think it sounds ridiculous for me to ask you this, but it's important how I read you.

I don't.. really know how to answer that.

I guess the biggest thing I'm changing about how I normally approach the game is trying to find townies I trust to bounce things off of. I usually just go with my own reads above all else, and trust nobody. I guess it's burned me a few times, because I'm clearly not perfect.

 

[ranmaru]

Is there something I'm missing meta wise? Also consider that I think he's traitor, which is why he's the one with the least priority. I was ok with him until he kept stubbornly reading me as scum and trying to handwave my explanation as an excuse.

 

[ranmaru]

Well, lesser priority than orbo.

 

[Dooms]

There isn't any reason I wouldn't do this as town. I pressured him, got a reaction, and got the ball rolling. No you are adding reasoning to make your 'weak reasoning = scummy' somehow valid. He gave me his explanation. It didn't help me at all. Me asking is townie. I was wondering why he did that, so asking for his explanation isn't hopping on, (a townie would ask for an explanation) what is hopping on is Orbo voting Keyblade without reasoning, something you also haven't commented on. Eventually, I went to sleep and KB went VLA, and I found something stronger than Keyblade. Remember how Keyblade was pretty close to a gut read? And my reasoning reflects that, since it was his attitude that I found odd. Yet you don't want to admit that. In that case, there was nothing I could do but wait on his play to develop, which is yet to be judged since he is VLA.

Yes, my reasoning is allowed to be weak on page 2. I mean seriously. You do the same thing in RVS. If you really have a problem with me having weak reasoning on page 2, then you should have a problem with people giving names To zen without reason, and also for people randomly voting with random.org, but you DON'T. Thus is why you only care to handwave my explanation as an excuse. And don't tell me "No I'm not gonna don't try to deflect blah blah" because me having weak reasoning is BETTER than a random vote, AND it gave a good foundation to rvs and the game. It helped me gain the reads I have now.

Also saying "You could do this as scum" isn't saying that that is my intent. That's you saying that I COULD do that. It doesn't what I was doing, and this means you are trying to use that to be able to scumread me. I could also be doing that to pressure him, and to get the ball rolling, and to push him to get a reaction. Oh wait. That's what I was doing, but you only want to consider the other option, without really reading what it is.

Also no. You can reply to me however you want. But I'm telling it like it is. I'm not unhappy with how you are responding, I just find your actions suspicious.

Asking questions is not "townie" at all. It's null. Trying to define yourself as town because you asked questions that he kind of answered is blech. This idea of scum having this text book play is idiotic. You're acting like scum wouldn't ask for an explanation for something that seems like a really silly slip, which is a very bad assumption to make, and I'm simply not going to make that assumption.

The reality of this is that "my play is allowed to be weak because it's day 2" is an excuse, regardless of how much you try to defend it. It is the text book definition of an excuse, and trying to say that I'm suspicious for pushing you for trying to defend your weak play with excuses is silly. You have also yet to say what you actually gained from pushing KBG in such a weak way. The only thing you've said regarding this is basically "I'll get back to it later when he gets back", which makes me believe that you simply got nothing from it. Tell me why I shouldn't be suspicious of a weak and terrible push that you have shown no conclusions from?

Zen asking for randoms is Zen play. I don't know Zen play too well, but he always does stupid stuff like this, and I could care less about what he's doing with it honestly. I'm not going to call him scummy for stuff that he has done every game I've played with him in. Orbo wasn't sheeping me. His vote and his play heavily implied that he had reasoning before stating that he agreed with my reasoning. You wouldn't be calling him out for sheeping if he restated what I said in different words, but instead he kept it simple and just agreed with me. It's not scummy to agree with me.

We're not playing this game as psychics. I legitimately am not 100% certain of your intent. I'm saying that if you were scum, then this would be your intent and reasoning. Saying that you could do this as scum means that if you were to be scum, this is why you're doing it. I'm not 100% on you being scum (which I've stated), but I do find what you're doing at the moment and what you did with KBG to be scummy. Saying "You're not correctly identifying my intent" is basically saying "You're not reading me the way I want you to" and it is a really dumb argument to make. If I can find reasoning for scum to do what you're doing, then why should I give you the benefit of the doubt when I already dislike your play?

I'd like to note that every game I've been in with Joker has been a game where I started the game off with vacation iIrc, so him saying that I was inactive and only posting big walls was usually due to vacation.

BBL. College stuff.

 

[Orboknown]

Why go this route when you were saying Ranmaru was scum too? Why not just vote Ran?

Until I reread, ran was more mumbled in my mind and I wasn't quite sure. Still aren't. Waiting to see his interactions with others before I decide between tunneling ran or scum.

 

[ranmaru]

Asking any question can be null, but that isn't just any question. That's me asking him to explain himself. That's townie in of itself, because every townie wants to slow down and think before just hopping on like Orbo. It's not something you can get a solid read from, but it's something a townie would do, and should do. You say he had his own reasoning, please be a dear and quote it for me. You expect me to go "fair enough" to everything that I don't need to respond to? (You shouldn't) My reaction to your find was "lol, that's actually pretty good in spite of my weak reasoning" So there isn't any reason for me to drop pressure, especially when his answer was "I like unique roles so wat" which is how his general attitude hs in game and out of game, and didn't help me at all. Then, I went to sleep, and he went VLA. Nothing I can do but read him when he comes back.

No, that's only an illusion. The actual reality is that's fine and dandy, especially in that early a stage. You were only able to have slightly better reasoning because of my push. Anyways it's really fine. You're acting as if I should have pushed that really hard and had plenty of reason to continue the push. Not at all, it was pretty weak. You are going to hate to hear this, but yes, it was pressure, it was to help get a better read on a newbie. This would be null, but the thing is you aren't trying to read my entire play, just the play that includes that page2 read. And my reasoning was referring to a post on page 1. Yes I'm allowed to say that it's weak because it's [I shall now have bardull possess me] FRICKIN PAGE 1. Here's the thing. If you continue to say "no it's an excuse it's an excuse which means it's an excuse from the text book of mafia that I read everyday" then I will think you are being very ignorant to... FRICKIN PAGE 1.

If you are still going LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU then I present to you EXAMPLES:

it's too early to have scum picks, so i go random:
soup and Masq.

Joey and Zen. (Used a RNG with the players and got you lol.)

Also, first time using an RNG but it seems like a fun way to start off a RVS

Oh, okay, guess I'll just Vote: Zen for typical rvs reason too.


Yoloswag and joey.

So I guess "typical rvs reason", "fun way to start off rvs", "too early to have scumpicks" are all excuses to their 'weak' play. Also, since Zen asked for the names, he should have no problem with it either. The only one that seems to have a problem, is you. Joey, learn to re-evaluate your reads and ask yourself "Could ran really have done that as town?" Then tell me what came up in your brain. Since you are using meta for Zen you can also use meta for me. If you still have a problem with that null tell, then look at my other actions in thread and tell me, if that goes along with what you are saying. (My interactions and my pushes right now)

Joey, that's the thing. You are taking the POSSIBILITY and forcing it to my actions, instead of reading what I actually did. Meaning, you are forcing something null into something suspicious because "I could have done that as scum" but you only WANT to read me as scum and thus, that's how it is.

Again, I told you that his answer didn't help me much. There is nothing much else to do with that gut read, but read his play later on. He's VLA, so can't do that as of yet.

That's also the thing. You are stuck on my early play as if it was bad, but it's totally dandy. You aren't really reading my play as of NOW, and trying to just stay on this forever. I am getting tired of walling with you on something that is null and you being ignorant, so you can have the last word. I'm not going to respond to anymore of your push.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm done.

Orbo and Zen, I would like your opinion on the joey vs ran.

 

[Orboknown]

Joey more townie, Ran I still feel like you got on joey because he got on you and have been laying down stuff along the way.

 

[ranmaru]

What do you mean read wise? What do you think of my previous post?

 

[ranmaru]

Also go into why on both me and Joey. Are you saying Joey didn't add anything?

 

[Orboknown]

What do you mean read wise? What do you think of my previous post?

Joey is slightly more townie then before, although I'd like him to explain why he isn't voting you.
You are a null floating around because i see things I agree with but then things I see scummy.
Like I saw town ran pushing me, but then you got on joey after he voted you and I feel like you are pulling more stuff into it after the fact as justification.
Joey has stayed consistent with his points afaik.,

 

[ranmaru]

I'm still voting you and my feelings on you haven't changed. This is Joey's push that I'm defending from, yet I do find him suspicious for being really stubborn and not considering my explanation. You also asked to stop arguing in circles and I agree, yet you are 'finding me suspicious' for that, something that you asked for?

I'm not pulling more 'stuff' into it. He is the one who added the "And then you backed up my reasoning to escape" reasoning, and then I told him that he was trying to force a null there, AND I told him he was adding more to his original accusation, yet you didn't mention that.

 

[ranmaru]

You also haven't explained why Joey is more townie than before. Go ahead and explain that.

 

[Orboknown]

I'm still voting you and my feelings on you haven't changed. This is Joey's push that I'm defending from, yet I do find him suspicious for being really stubborn and not considering my explanation. You also asked to stop arguing in circles and I agree, yet you are 'finding me suspicious' for that, something that you asked for?

I'm not pulling more 'stuff' into it. He is the one who added the "And then you backed up my reasoning to escape" reasoning, and then I told him that he was trying to force a null there, AND I told him he was adding more to his original accusation, yet you didn't mention that.

I didn't see that lol.
I'm expressing my feelings towards you. As you said, you still have your suspicions. I still have mine. I didn't think I was being told to look at it without any formerly conceived notions of alignment.

You also haven't explained why Joey is more townie than before. Go ahead and explain that.

His intent feels like it's more obvious in this post. I see stubborn town joey like I saw reading J's RE4(i think that was the game)

 

[ranmaru]

What is his intent

 

[Orboknown]

He thinks you are scum, and he is pushing it. Like I said, the only thing holding me back is why he isn't voting you when he is pushing you but it isn't a huge issue.

 

[YOLOSWAG]

request votecount

joeys disgusting and anyone townreading him is scum or a moron

 

[Orboknown]

I'd say explain it but you are who you are.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

joeys disgusting and anyone townreading him is scum or a moron

Oh oh! I'm convinced!
/sarcasm

 

[Xivii]

@mod: request prod on vocal
@mod: request replacement on vocal

 

[YOLOSWAG]

mod request vocal replacement

yo pb+j thank you i try to keep **** convincing

NO ONE ELSE REPLACE OUT OTHERWISE WE WILL HAVE TO PLAY WITH BADWOLF

 

[Orboknown]

that is a scary thought.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

request votecount

joeys disgusting and anyone townreading him is scum or a moron

Do you think he would really put this much effort into something as scum? It seems completely pointless to me.

 

[ranmaru]

Don't be ***** guys badwolf is a cool guy and he is funny

 

[Dabuz]

2. Him addressing Soup doesn't mean anything. It's not really content to me, it's just an easy question. "Why are you interested in ____?" Is not him scumhunting.

Ranmaru: Really? That interaction looked like a push to me, a really bad push because he was trying to create some sort of connection case but a push nonetheless. Actually, thinking about it, one thing looks odd to me about this interaction:

Nah. I just mentioned that stuff for the sake of mentioning it. I have a gut feeling about dabuns right now but it's not enough to push.

Wah you're not town reading him? What about the stuff about his thoughts lining up with yours on me :v?

That doesn't mean I have to town-read him. Do you town-read him at the moment?

No.

VOCAL, VINYL, PJB: give me your two scum picks without any reasoning the next time you post.

Looks like Zen was pushing Soup because we both have shown dislike of Zen, yet Zen basically dropped his pressure on Soup once Soup clarified he doesn't town-read me. What's really odd is afterward Zen diverts from his Soup direction to putting suspicion on me but has no reasoning or clarification for his read.

Zen, what are your reads on Soup and myself and why?

I had you as null because I didn't have a read on you. It's really as simple as that. I now do have a read on you which I still good onto for now.

I found soup's interaction with dabuz as weird. I explained this. I felt that he was providing substance between the two of them simply for the sake of providing substance. In other words I felt (and still do) feel a scum connection there. I wanted to see if soup actually had reasoning behind why he specifically addressed dabuz. It is it of place because soup is not showing this trend with other players so the question came to mind why he was specifically questioning dabuz. If you look at the post soup first questioned dabuz, he quoted dabuz' random number gen post and proceeded to ask him questions that didn't regard that post. I get the sense that soup had this need (whether unconscious or conscious) to present an interaction with dabuz. I recall him doing the same in that last newbie we played as scum mates. He would talk to me in thread to form an interaction between us in a similar spontaneous way.

Btw please draw back from the aggressiveness. It really it's very irksome. You've been doing it since the start, the way you went after kbg, then joey, and now myself.

So it's basically a case of you know Soup's meta and therefore you want to piece together a connection case based on that meta? Does Soup having a gut feeling on me change your read?

How does that help you? I don't believe a single person answered it, is that telling of anything?

Orboknown: KBG answered it sarcastically and you responded to it with hostility. Helps me develop my thoughts regarding you two.

Why are you so bothered by the question?

zen i kind of skim hardbody but i aint trippin cuz it does have its protown uses now that ive thought about it more. i dont have a townread on soup at all btw

Yoloswag: Saw this post, thought about it, and I think I see what you're getting at too but I want to know if we are on the same page here. What pro-town uses do you see in Zen's 2 man RVS plan?



Random note but while reading #186, I notice Orbo and Masq. have such similar trains of thought, could see both of them as scum if one of them flips scum.

Not only were you pushing with really weak logic, but as soon as I said something more realistic, you were instantly jumping onto it, and it looked really opportunistic when you did so. The fact that you dropped your original line of logic completely and jumped straight onto mine is pretty sketchy. If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic.



Yup. I am. The fact that he could be (and probably is) talking about flavor completely ruins any argument against him I have, as you see flavor without a role list, so he is more than likely was legitimately curious if we had a role list, which does not indicate alignment. It's not just a simple point. If he was referring to flavor, then there is literally no way that my initial logic can work in any way, shape, or form.

When we vote pressured him, he was very defensive and seemed to get flustered with Ranmaru a bit. I'm of the opinion that a scummy would be more careful not to get flustered like that so early (And with only one vote on you at that). I definitely don't see him as confirmed town or anything, but until more stuff happens, he's on my town side of things.

I try not to be careless with my vote, and I know that with Ranmaru's experience, he will not feel more pressured under a vote than he would without one. I'm not going to throw a vote onto someone like Ranmaru until I'm certain that they're scum and I want to push for their lynch.

"For now, at least" implies that I'm not certain of the town read, but he's still a town read for now. It also implies that if he says that his original post wasn't regarding flavor, or if I realize that it probably wans't regarding flavor, my reasoning is still standing and my vote is going straight back onto him.



Actually....

This makes me think that he wasn't talking about flavor. Why would he bring this up 20 or so posts after saying "wow, this flavor is weird, but nice"? Zen, answer this for me, please.

-Masquerain-: I'm getting an honest-town gut feeling from parts of this post. Like I can see how you would jump onto KBG after what looks like a slip and then read Zen's post and be like: "Oh, that makes more sense to be talking about". Like I said earlier (to Soup I think), the KBG wagon is easy to jump on for town and scum players because what KBG said was so derp.

I do feel like there's sincerity in that right now your following Zen's logic but aren't so sold that it can't still be a slip by KBG, but i'm not going to ignore that it's a potential backdoor later on.

Referring to your first paragraph, don't agree with your pressure of Ran though based on this: "If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic." since it's logic that works under the assumption that Ran is scum and that's what he will do, which conflicts with you not voting him because you aren't 100% on pushing for his lynch.
Unvote
Right now i'm getting a town-vibe from you despite having a good share of reasons to scum read you, ugh.

Zen asking for randoms is Zen play. I don't know Zen play too well, but he always does stupid stuff like this, and I could care less about what he's doing with it honestly. I'm not going to call him scummy for stuff that he has done every game I've played with him in. Orbo wasn't sheeping me. His vote and his play heavily implied that he had reasoning before stating that he agreed with my reasoning. You wouldn't be calling him out for sheeping if he restated what I said in different words, but instead he kept it simple and just agreed with me. It's not scummy to agree with me.

Show me what Orbo posted that gave you this impression.

 

[Orboknown]

Dabuz, i don't see how that question nets you scum. I don't see how it nets you someone's scum intent. it's a useless question imo.

 

[Orboknown]

also why would scum joey and scum orbo both have the same train of thought? That's ridiculously dangerous to a supposed joey/orbo scumteam.

 

[ranmaru]

Joey as traitor with his original thought and you as scum who is agreeing with him and giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Dabuz will get to you

 

[Dooms]

He thinks you are scum, and he is pushing it. Like I said, the only thing holding me back is why he isn't voting you when he is pushing you but it isn't a huge issue.

"I try not to be careless with my vote, and I know that with Ranmaru's experience, he will not feel more pressured under a vote than he would without one. I'm not going to throw a vote onto someone like Ranmaru until I'm certain that they're scum and I want to push for their lynch." I stated this a page or two ago.

I am not certain of Ranmaru scum. If I was, I'd be voting him. The fact that he's playing the way that he is is something I do not like at all, though. His play with KBG was utter garbage, and him trying to use an excuse to defend his garbage push is blech. There are a few things that he's doing though just because he's Ranmaru, such as this aggressive play and all of the arguing. I'm trying to finalize my thoughts between stereotypical Ranmaru and scum play before I throw any vote out there.

Ranmaru, you are not townie for questioning the reasoning behind something. You're not townie for slowing down and rethinking things. You're literally forcing your own town read on yourself down my throat. Seriously, do you realize how stupid that sounds? You're not even defending yourself at this point. You're saying "You moron, why aren't you town reading me?"

I'm not sure what you're trying to say is fine and dandy, and I'm not going to make an assumption at this point, because that's going to turn into an even larger argument which is not what I want at this point.

Even now, you're trying to misconstrue my play so that other players find you town and me scum, and you're trying to force this to be a TvS scenario. Look at how you're saying that I now leeched off of your pressure. Look at how you're trying to force your town read on yourself down people's throats. Look at how you're trying to compare everyone to yourself so that you're considered an equal to the majority. You are trying to find every way to make sure you get out of this in a you town, me scum situation.

The difference between people randomly choosing and you is that they openly admitted that they were random voting before they did their stuff with the exception of Orbo, who unvoted for the exact same (and perfectly logical) reason that I did. You said nothing of it until this bickering started. I could understand if you were to say right away that you were pressuring, but you didn't. All you did was say "It's the second page, so my reasoning is weak". You stated that him calling the flavors weird, but nice was weird. I don't have this problem with other players because they didn't push a crap case with crap logic and reasoning and then try to back out of it with a "It's the second page" excuse. Now you're trying to throw out the idea that I'm only voting you because you random voted without reasoning, which is not the case at all.

I'm re-evaluating you, but you forcing your own town read on yourself down my throat and your previous play combined with the possible scum intentions behind all of this doesn't make me feel like you're townie at all, regardless of the amount of times that I reconsider you.

I'm not forcing anything. The fact of the matter is that as we've discussed, not only have I not felt better about your play, but you're getting way more defensive and aggravated.

Ranmaru, I'm reading your play right now. It does not seem much better than your play with KBG. Tell me what you have done that should scream townie. I'll tell you why it doesn't.

Why do I need to force a scum read on you this early in the game? What do I gain as scum from forcing a fake scum read on you this early in the game? You're as clueless about my actual intent as I am about yours; I 100% guarantee that.

All of your scum hunting tools that you are forcing onto me are tools that you would use after there is a flip or some confirmed information. It's day 1, and saying that I don't understand your intent and that I can't read you because of it is silly. I have nothing to connect your intent to (Is he trying to protect x townie or y scummy?), and saying that I should have an instant "He has townie intent!" or "he has scummy intent!" on day 1 is obnoxious.

College stuff. BBL.

 

[Dooms]

Dabuz/Orbo, what am I missing in Ranmaru's play? What is townie about Ranmaru? I'm generally clueless, and listening to Ranmaru shove a town read on himself down my throat is not helping.

 

[ranmaru]

My push on Orbo and Zen.

You mentioned that Orbo didn't sheep you. Quote how his play heavily implied he wasn't sheeping you.

 

[Orboknown]

It's how he questioned me where I saw stubborn townmaru like he was on me in hardbody. Digging into every little thing because he thought he had found scum. But other then that I haven't seen that much form him.

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz, i don't see how that question nets you scum. I don't see how it nets you someone's scum intent. it's a useless question imo.

It helps me form thoughts and directions in the early game. It served my intent. I'm trying to understand why you're so focused on it.

also why would scum joey and scum orbo both have the same train of thought? That's ridiculously dangerous to a supposed joey/orbo scumteam.

Power in numbers, you have two people pressuring based on the same line of logic and then the town sheep will read it and be like: "oh, two players think this makes sense, guess I agree if others do. I'll side with them."

With that said, until there are some flips i'm not basing any reads off of that possibility, just throwing it out there.

 

[ranmaru]

Ranmaru: Really? That interaction looked like a push to me, a really bad push because he was trying to create some sort of connection case but a push nonetheless. Actually, thinking about it, one thing looks odd to me about this interaction:

That's it. It was a bad push, but it wasn't one that seemed legit either. That's why I'm saying it's not really content, but fake content. To me him asking about that isn't legit because it doesn't seem like a legit concern. Zen explained that it was something he would do with a scum buddy but I can't really see much of a problem without a scumflip first, so I don't see why he would get a problem with that. To me it just seemed like an opportunity for Zen to phone in content which he had NOT been giving. Also you mention that you thought it was odd zen backed out, to me I feel he was trying to put doubt on Soup by asking "Wait you don't town read him?" but then Soup asked Zen if he was town reading him and said no, and really had no reason to push that because he himself didn't read you as town. I don't know why soup is getting a prob with you but hopefully he can show that soon.

 

[Orboknown]

It helps me form thoughts and directions in the early game. It served my intent. I'm trying to understand why you're so focused on it.



Power in numbers, you have two people pressuring based on the same line of logic and then the town sheep will read it and be like: "oh, two players think this makes sense, guess I agree if others do. I'll side with them."

With that said, until there are some flips i'm not basing any reads off of that possibility, just throwing it out there.

@First- it was what I saw from you that I found interesting at the time. Can you explain what you got from it?
@Second, k

 

[ranmaru]

Dabuz how are you reading Orbo now? Do you agree with my reasoning against him?

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz/Orbo, what am I missing in Ranmaru's play? What is townie about Ranmaru? I'm generally clueless, and listening to Ranmaru shove a town read on himself down my throat is not helping.

Well, pressure for the sake of pressure in RVS isn't a bad thing. I've seen it in a lot of Dgames by a townie so it's not a strong basis for a case IMO. Outside of that his "play" is largely defending that pressure he applied to KBG with giant walls that feel like they repeat themselves.

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz how are you reading Orbo now? Do you agree with my reasoning against him?

Not sure if I agree with your reasoning, but I dislike him. There's a lot of focus by him on unimportant things and when you pressure him he "waves" it off by saying that basically, it's not logical reasoning. The sheeping isn't good and his earlier contradiction in voting KBG when pressuring you for voting KBG looked bad.

I'd label him as a null because reading the back and forth between you two, I didn't find the scum intent, I just didn't like his play as a whole.

 

[Orboknown]

It wasn't ran pressuring him, it was how he was pressuring him over something so little.