Walmart Mafia - Game! Capitalism WINS!!!! HAHA **** you commies! =D

[Orboknown]

1. Yes. You sheeping Joey shows you aren't thinking with your own brain. You even said that you agreed with joey, which means you are sheeping him. You didn't even give your own reasoning, there is no 'slightly different reasoning' there. You can't back off that with "Sorry I should have said it earlier".

No it doesn't. i said i was voting him for the same reason that joey was, not that joey saw the reason first. there's a difference there ran.

2. Yes but you didn't even explain why you unvoted. You saw the reasoning from Zen but you didn't say why it CONVINCED you. To me it just seems you just took to opportunity to unvote Keyblade. It makes sense because Zen just came in and defended Keyblade with a viewpoint without letting Keyblade himself say that. It is a possibility, it's not straight fact that he thought the FLAVOR was nice. I find that if you flip scum there is a possibility of Zen being scum.

it gave me something to think about. I don't tend to keep my vote on someone if i'm not terribly convinced of it or I have a reason to doubt the read.

3. It is actually bad from the both of you. I only reacted to what he said about me ("He's blah blah excuse makes me uncomfortable so yeah ranmaru is still scum"). I do find it odd that he also just agreed to Zen without even waiting for Keyblade to come back. It's equally bad for the both of you since he used it to unvote as well. I also agree with Dabuz that Joey is keeping his options open with the "For now" comment, and that it's odd he isn't voting me now. Now that you mention that, how does that affect your read on Joey? What is your read on Joey? Do you agree with my reasoning on him (when I FOS'd him)?

Joey's nulltown. I like that he is thinking along the same lines as me for now. Not voting you puts it in the nulltown region.

4. So you are wishy-washy on me. Ok. It was page 2. I even said this to Joey. It was closer to a gut read than a solid read, and I wanted to push him to see how he'd react. I didn't forget about it, I can't push that any farther because he had already explained himself and I don't have any more problems with him besides that little thing. The only thing left is to wait on him and to see how he acts when he comes back.

How strong a gutfeel was it? Is he still a scumfeel in your mind?

5. Again it was closer to a gut feel. I don't see how that's a problem in such an early stage.

Didn't read as a gutell with how seemingly aggro you pushed it as.

He needs a vote so I can know who he wants to push the most and so I can see him looking for scum. He's not doing that right now and Yolo even gives some good rebuttal on Zen's 'scumhunting' on Soup with his Dabuz interaction. I think you are chainsawing when it comes to Zen. Through-out the thread you keep asking people about their reads on Zen. I just think he's your buddy and you always ask people (Like Yolo Swag's "Zen is prolly Scum" post) to substantiate that and nothing else. (Although you did ask Dabuz why he asked that "You scum?" question to seem townie)

Vinyl said he'd answer after you did.

Where have I asked people about their zen reads aside from yolo? is zen scum dependant on me?
Okay with ivnyl.

Here is the quote where you say that you voted Keyblade for the reason Joey pointed out. So there is no slightly different reasoning here. It's the damn same. Don't try to wiggle out with a "Sorry I forgot to say it".

I said the reasoning was different from yours. Not form Joeys. I reached the same conclusion joey did without reading he had.

 

[Orboknown]

To be fair, Ran, in response to your #2 up there, I've seen Orbo just kinda flip on stuff because someone else showed him the light, all with no explanation. He did it in Golden Sun, where he was my hydra partner, and we were town. Someone said something to change his read on someone (I forget who it was), and he just flipped on it right away without a word about why to anyone. Not even me, his hydra partner.

was that about kantrip?

 

[Orboknown]

going to reread outside of ran/kb and see what's up.

 

[ranmaru]

It doesn't invalidate that he did it though. I mean, him JUST changing his mind like that can mean it can come from him as either alignment, but I'm not scumreading him solely on that. I'm looking at why he did it. (He has yet to explain that) Then consider after that, he just voted Vinyl out of no where. No one told him to do that, and that supports my reasoning that he is trying to hop onto anyone he can. (Keyblade, than Vinyl) I mean I know that Orbo can be influenced at times and I will consider it with what you said. But surely you can understand why I still have a problem with it, right?

All he is doing now, is voting vinyl and just defending himself. I still think he is scum and don't think he can relieve my concerns with a "Sorry I forgot to clarify my slightly different reasoning" reason.

 

[ranmaru]

zen i kind of skim hardbody but i aint trippin cuz it does have its protown uses now that ive thought about it more. i dont have a townread on soup at all btw

I have Soup and Dabuz as town. If you have a problem with Soup talk to me about him.

 

[Dooms]

@Zen:

you still haven't answered why you didn't let Keyblade answer that himself instead of guessing what he was thinking. Please do.

@Joey:

How else can you expect me to push that? You seem to be saying "Ran is scum because his reasoning is weak!" and not really showing how it's scum intent. I already said I understand why you may think the reasoning is dumb but I don't see why you would have me as a suspect just because of 'weak reasoning'. Also consider that I pushed him because he was new, to see how he'd react. (That is what I mean by getting the ball rolling) It got him to react, and you gained reads from it. Again I don't see how you can find me suspicious and how you are just handwaving my defense as an excuse.

You yourself said that you understood that we have to use everything, and that's what I was trying to do. You aren't really giving me the benefit of the doubt and instantly casting doubt on me without considering both sides of the coin.

FOS: Joey

Not only were you pushing with really weak logic, but as soon as I said something more realistic, you were instantly jumping onto it, and it looked really opportunistic when you did so. The fact that you dropped your original line of logic completely and jumped straight onto mine is pretty sketchy. If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic.

So if Ranmaru is one of your scum picks, why aren't you voting him?

Regarding KBG, I don't see how you went from scum pick to leaning town just because you agree with one of Zen's points. Are you that quick to completely throw out your initial logic?

Also, referring to the highlight, you're implying you may go back to voting him so that shows you still have some reason to think he's scum.

Yup. I am. The fact that he could be (and probably is) talking about flavor completely ruins any argument against him I have, as you see flavor without a role list, so he is more than likely was legitimately curious if we had a role list, which does not indicate alignment. It's not just a simple point. If he was referring to flavor, then there is literally no way that my initial logic can work in any way, shape, or form.

When we vote pressured him, he was very defensive and seemed to get flustered with Ranmaru a bit. I'm of the opinion that a scummy would be more careful not to get flustered like that so early (And with only one vote on you at that). I definitely don't see him as confirmed town or anything, but until more stuff happens, he's on my town side of things.

I try not to be careless with my vote, and I know that with Ranmaru's experience, he will not feel more pressured under a vote than he would without one. I'm not going to throw a vote onto someone like Ranmaru until I'm certain that they're scum and I want to push for their lynch.

"For now, at least" implies that I'm not certain of the town read, but he's still a town read for now. It also implies that if he says that his original post wasn't regarding flavor, or if I realize that it probably wans't regarding flavor, my reasoning is still standing and my vote is going straight back onto him.

also i thought i was signed up for Capitalism Mafia..... When did it change to walmart mafia?

Actually....

This makes me think that he wasn't talking about flavor. Why would he bring this up 20 or so posts after saying "wow, this flavor is weird, but nice"? Zen, answer this for me, please.

 

[Orboknown]

It doesn't invalidate that he did it though. I mean, him JUST changing his mind like that can mean it can come from him as either alignment, but I'm not scumreading him solely on that. I'm looking at why he did it. (He has yet to explain that) Then consider after that, he just voted Vinyl out of no where. No one told him to do that, and that supports my reasoning that he is trying to hop onto anyone he can. (Keyblade, than Vinyl) I mean I know that Orbo can be influenced at times and I will consider it with what you said. But surely you can understand why I still have a problem with it, right?

All he is doing now, is voting vinyl and just defending himself. I still think he is scum and don't think he can relieve my concerns with a "Sorry I forgot to clarify my slightly different reasoning" reason.

vinyl vote was to push the wagon and get a reaction. I know marshy and kev like to pile votes and vinyl, like pjb, will prolly **** up if he is wagoned hard and quick.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It doesn't invalidate that he did it though. I mean, him JUST changing his mind like that can mean it can come from him as either alignment, but I'm not scumreading him solely on that. I'm looking at why he did it. (He has yet to explain that) Then consider after that, he just voted Vinyl out of no where. No one told him to do that, and that supports my reasoning that he is trying to hop onto anyone he can. (Keyblade, than Vinyl) I mean I know that Orbo can be influenced at times and I will consider it with what you said. But surely you can understand why I still have a problem with it, right?

All he is doing now, is voting vinyl and just defending himself. I still think he is scum and don't think he can relieve my concerns with a "Sorry I forgot to clarify my slightly different reasoning" reason.

He did explain it. It was because Zen brought up the possibility of KBG being preoccupied with the flavor of the roles, not the roles themselves.

I agree that the random jump on Vinyl was weird though. It's what got me looking at Orbo, myself. His sudden jump on KBG for unclear reasons, followed by his sudden jump on Vinyl for no reason at all, is definitely the fishiest thing about Orbo's play.

 

[ranmaru]

Not only were you pushing with really weak logic, but as soon as I said something more realistic, you were instantly jumping onto it, and it looked really opportunistic when you did so. The fact that you dropped your original line of logic completely and jumped straight onto mine is pretty sketchy. If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic.

I found it a nice find from you. I never dropped my reasoning on him, I just thought it was a nice extra that you got, and asked him to explain his thought process to see if it was him messing up as scum or literally saying "I forget" to handwave pressure as scum. Still, you have yet to say why 'weak logic' = scum intent. You never explained that, and you are adding reasoning instead of what you originally said.

 

[Orboknown]

to see if it was him messing up as scum or literally saying "I forget" to handwave pressure as scum.

Is there a typo or is it literally you only thought scum was the possibility for his alignment?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

vinyl vote was to push the wagon and get a reaction. I know marshy and kev like to pile votes and vinyl, like pjb, will prolly **** up if he is wagoned hard and quick.

Vinyl doesn't react to anything. It's one of the many reasons I find him so difficult to read.

@Vinyl, please be really really obvtown, or really really obvscum. I'd hate to have to kill you later because you're always such a question mark.

 

[ranmaru]

Is there a typo or is it literally you only thought scum was the possibility for his alignment?

I was saying I thought he was scum who was either trying to back pedal or just handwave pressure as nonchalant scum, at the time.

 

[Orboknown]

I was saying I thought he was scum who was either trying to back pedal or just handwave pressure as nonchalant scum, at the time.

okay. How likely is newbtown for you?

 

[Orboknown]

This is what I was thinking. I think he's either Scum/PR.

Which is more likely soup?

 

[Orboknown]

zen what did you get form your back and forth with soup?

 

[ranmaru]

1. No it doesn't. i said i was voting him for the same reason that joey was, not that joey saw the reason first.
2. it gave me something to think about. I don't tend to keep my vote on someone if i'm not terribly convinced of it or I have a reason to doubt the read.
3. Not voting you puts it in the nulltown region.
4. How strong a gutfeel was it? Is he still a scumfeel in your mind?
5. Didn't read as a gutell with how seemingly aggro you pushed it as.
6. Where have I asked people about their zen reads aside from yolo? is zen scum dependant on me?
7. I said the reasoning was different from yours. Not form Joeys. I reached the same conclusion joey did without reading he had.

1. To sheep you don't need to say "Hi I'm sheeping you". You agreed with all of Joey's reasoning, so that means you were sheeping. It is more apparent because you just voted Keyblade without really saying the reason, it just reeks of intent to hop on rather than just reacting to his scumminess (rather, finding it legit scummy)

2. Ok. So how are you reading Keyblade now and why?

3. Why is that?

4. It wasn't that strong. The reasoning was pretty weak.

5. I didn't push that hard. I only said a a few things like "Flail, scum" to shake him up. I also asked him alot of meta questions since he was new and I was making sure he wasn't an alt with a dumb avatar.

6. Your #178. It's more apparent when you react to Yolo saying Zen is probably scum.

7. Oh ok.

 

[ranmaru]

okay. How likely is newbtown for you?

I'll judge that when he comes back and posts more. He's not a priority to me now. You, Joey, and Zen are.

 

[Orboknown]

1. To sheep you don't need to say "Hi I'm sheeping you". You agreed with all of Joey's reasoning, so that means you were sheeping. It is more apparent because you just voted Keyblade without really saying the reason, it just reeks of intent to hop on rather than just reacting to his scumminess (rather, finding it legit scummy)

2. Ok. So how are you reading Keyblade now and why?

3. Why is that?

4. It wasn't that strong. The reasoning was pretty weak.

5. I didn't push that hard. I only said a a few things like "Flail, scum" to shake him up. I also asked him alot of meta questions since he was new and I was making sure he wasn't an alt with a dumb avatar.

6. Your #178. It's more apparent when you react to Yolo saying Zen is probably scum.

7. Oh ok.

1-this is contradicting seven seeing as I basically said the same thing, although you didn't comment on it. Even if i didn't state it, does it mean that i didn't think it?
2-I can't read someone is isn't here.
3-because it's like he wants to scumread you but not follow through with it.
4-aight
5-"scum number one is here zen" read pretty convinced to me.
6- I quoted both his reads there, so I'm not sure why you are picking up Zen out of that. I would have asked the same thing if anyoither person had been the one you were questioning, so I'm not sure that's feasible connections bait ran. Is Zen individually scummy?

 

[Orboknown]

We're going in circles here ran. can we agree to drop this off and come back to it later?

 

[ranmaru]

He did explain it. It was because Zen brought up the possibility of KBG being preoccupied with the flavor of the roles, not the roles themselves.

I agree that the random jump on Vinyl was weird though. It's what got me looking at Orbo, myself. His sudden jump on KBG for unclear reasons, followed by his sudden jump on Vinyl for no reason at all, is definitely the fishiest thing about Orbo's play.

Alright. I'll drop that point. I'm wondering, how are you reading Joey and Zen at this point?

 

[ranmaru]

We're going in circles here ran. can we agree to drop this off and come back to it later?

Sure after I reply. I'll tell you how I feel. With emotions.

 

[ranmaru]

1-this is contradicting seven seeing as I basically said the same thing, although you didn't comment on it. Even if i didn't state it, does it mean that i didn't think it?
2-I can't read someone is isn't here.
3-because it's like he wants to scumread you but not follow through with it.
4-aight
5-"scum number one is here zen" read pretty convinced to me.
6- I quoted both his reads there, so I'm not sure why you are picking up Zen out of that. I would have asked the same thing if anyoither person had been the one you were questioning, so I'm not sure that's feasible connections bait ran. Is Zen individually scummy?

1. I need context then to understand. I was saying "oh ok" because I thought it was different. You said "My reasoning was slightly different" and I went and quoted that you didn't say that. You said it was the same as Joey's. I said oh ok to that. I didn't say "oh ok you didn't sheep". I still think you were sheeping.
2. Ok get back to me on that when he comes back.
3. I don't see how that's townie at all. I find that he is scummy for wanting to scumread me, instead of legit reading me.
4. K.
5. Out of the two he asked for. I could only give one since it was pre-game and nothing else stuck out to me.
6. That's the feel I'm getting with you. You seem to care about people's opinions on Zen. Zen is scum individually as well.

Orbo, I am still not relieved of my concerns with you, so I'm keeping my vote here. We can end the circles.

 

[Orboknown]

3-it'w why he is nulltown instead of a town read

 

[ranmaru]

This makes me think that he wasn't talking about flavor. Why would he bring this up 20 or so posts after saying "wow, this flavor is weird, but nice"? Zen, answer this for me, please.

Orbo what do you think of this?

 

[Orboknown]

Orbo what do you think of this?

I don't know if he knows we refer to both role pm and thread title info as flavor, so I can't say anything about that yet.

 

[ranmaru]

Alrighty then.

 

[ranmaru]

I had you as null because I didn't have a read on you. It's really as simple as that. I now do have a read on you which I still good onto for now.

I found soup's interaction with dabuz as weird. I explained this. I felt that he was providing substance between the two of them simply for the sake of providing substance. In other words I felt (and still do) feel a scum connection there. I wanted to see if soup actually had reasoning behind why he specifically addressed dabuz. It is it of place because soup is not showing this trend with other players so the question came to mind why he was specifically questioning dabuz. If you look at the post soup first questioned dabuz, he quoted dabuz' random number gen post and proceeded to ask him questions that didn't regard that post. I get the sense that soup had this need (whether unconscious or conscious) to present an interaction with dabuz. I recall him doing the same in that last newbie we played as scum mates. He would talk to me in thread to form an interaction between us in a similar spontaneous way.

I have no idea why, and think that Soup will have to explain that. What do you mean? He replied to PJB before. He's talked with him a bit. Even so I don't see how you can prove this without a scumflip from either of them, and I'm not feeling scum from either individually.

No thanks. I'll push whenever I have a scumread I want to push.

 

[Dooms]

I explained the scum intent behind it. Pretty clearly, at that. Weak logic was used to start a weak push on him, and then you used my reasoning to back yourself up. As scum, you could easily escape from your weak push by claiming that you were just trying to pressure him, and say that it's too early in the day for a legitimate push. Plus, with you using my reasoning after dropping your previous reasoning, you could easily push the blame onto me if things were to go wrong in any way, shape, or form.

You say that you didn't drop it... Yet, after discovering my reasoning, you haven't said anything regarding your previous reasoning. Just because you claim that you didn't drop it doesn't mean that you didn't drop it.

Weak reasoning alone isn't scummy, which is why I started talking about the whole dropping your reasoning thing. Weak reasoning combined with a "We're only two pages into the game so my reasoning is allowed to be weak!" excuse and completely dropping your original reasoning = suspicious. Also, pretty sketchy that you're trying to throw blame on me for "Adding reasoning" as if going in depth on why I dislike your slot at the moment can possibly be scummy. I responded to your statement, just not in the way that you wanted me to.

As town, I see no reason to completely drop your own line of logic to go with someone else's like you did on page 2. You could have used your own reasoning to back you up, but you didn't... like, at all. As soon as you saw my post calling out his role shenanigans, you started questioning him about that, and you didn't even mention anything regarding what you said prior to that. Townie would connect the two lines of logic in order to get a stronger read, while you just kind of rode on my tail end.

"If it were to backfire on me, you could easily hide behind the fact that I was the first to originally use that logic." is scum intent explained btw.

Just like you told Orbo, I don't have to say "HERE IS THE SCUM INTENT RANMARU CAPS CAPS CAPS" in order for me to be explaining scum intent.

 

[ranmaru]

There isn't any reason I wouldn't do this as town. I pressured him, got a reaction, and got the ball rolling. No you are adding reasoning to make your 'weak reasoning = scummy' somehow valid. He gave me his explanation. It didn't help me at all. Me asking is townie. I was wondering why he did that, so asking for his explanation isn't hopping on, (a townie would ask for an explanation) what is hopping on is Orbo voting Keyblade without reasoning, something you also haven't commented on. Eventually, I went to sleep and KB went VLA, and I found something stronger than Keyblade. Remember how Keyblade was pretty close to a gut read? And my reasoning reflects that, since it was his attitude that I found odd. Yet you don't want to admit that. In that case, there was nothing I could do but wait on his play to develop, which is yet to be judged since he is VLA.

Yes, my reasoning is allowed to be weak on page 2. I mean seriously. You do the same thing in RVS. If you really have a problem with me having weak reasoning on page 2, then you should have a problem with people giving names To zen without reason, and also for people randomly voting with random.org, but you DON'T. Thus is why you only care to handwave my explanation as an excuse. And don't tell me "No I'm not gonna don't try to deflect blah blah" because me having weak reasoning is BETTER than a random vote, AND it gave a good foundation to rvs and the game. It helped me gain the reads I have now.

Also saying "You could do this as scum" isn't saying that that is my intent. That's you saying that I COULD do that. It doesn't what I was doing, and this means you are trying to use that to be able to scumread me. I could also be doing that to pressure him, and to get the ball rolling, and to push him to get a reaction. Oh wait. That's what I was doing, but you only want to consider the other option, without really reading what it is.

Also no. You can reply to me however you want. But I'm telling it like it is. I'm not unhappy with how you are responding, I just find your actions suspicious.

 

[ranmaru]

Joey, what is your read on Zen and Orbo?

 

[Orboknown]

Soup talk to me about joey vs ran when you get in.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ran's acting really dumb and overcompensating but it's super townie and I'd rather not stop him because it helps me read him as he's practically just giving content out for free. Joey is in the same position to be honest. They're not a priority.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Alright. I'll drop that point. I'm wondering, how are you reading Joey and Zen at this point?

I haven't seen joey actually be active in a game since I was a newbie. Most of the games I've seen him in, he was basically a lurker who posted occasional walls of content that generally got ignored. Right now, he's trying his heart out. The overall feel I'm getting from him is townie. He's trying to produce content, even if he's rushing into it a bit. I don't really see scum intent.

Zen I'm less confident on. I think he's town, but I'd rather get input from people who are more proficient at reading him.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

zen, I asked dabuns about you because I don't like either of you, and to force a player into giving a stance onto another player who I think could both possibly could be scum helps me read them better based on their answer, along with the other player's reaction to it. I'm not sure why you're jumping to conclusions about something so simple.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Zen I'm less confident on. I think he's town, but I'd rather get input from people who are more proficient at reading him.

He's not town in the slightest. ​

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

vinyl vote was to push the wagon and get a reaction. I know marshy and kev like to pile votes and vinyl, like pjb, will prolly **** up if he is wagoned hard and quick.

Why go this route when you were saying Ranmaru was scum too? Why not just vote Ran?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

PJB, lay down your thought process in this game at the moment. You don't have to state reads or anything, I just wanna know how you're approaching this game. You might think it sounds ridiculous for me to ask you this, but it's important how I read you.

 

[ranmaru]

I haven't seen joey actually be active in a game since I was a newbie. Most of the games I've seen him in, he was basically a lurker who posted occasional walls of content that generally got ignored. Right now, he's trying his heart out. The overall feel I'm getting from him is townie. He's trying to produce content, even if he's rushing into it a bit. I don't really see scum intent..

Joey has done the same as scum. In fact I remember trading many many walls in Celeb Rehab mafia. Then he replaced out without really 'satisfying' my arguments and Vandy came in and pooped on me a bit but I was like D: < . (Joey was scum there) Joey and I have also argued in Kittens vs Domos but that was legit my fault there and he was town there. Yet I just don't like his stubborness when it comes to saying I'm only trying to excuse myself. Again this is why I feel he's trying to scumread me rather than legit read me.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran's acting really dumb and overcompensating

; - ;

 

[#HBC | Joker]

was that about kantrip?

I actually think it was about Furio Tigre (Nabe/BarDulL hydra)