Walgreens Mafia - DRAW game - The mod ****ed up pretty bad...=/

[#HBC | Laundry]

And with that, I'm out, t:weeties. I'll be back in like a half-hour to an hour. We'll see.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Guus just has a good town feel. He's one of those supporter-type players who will rarely push in their own direction but will follow the right bandwagons. I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum but I'm not feeling it. His play doesn't really read too scummy to me. It doesn't really read wholly town either but that's his prerogative, not mine.

Weird, that's kinda why I think he may be scum.

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah, I can't find the crumb.

I hate the fact that bulletproof is utterly unprovable, because scum wouldn't risk killing a BP claim, which means that WL's going to continue to survive unless lynched, making him remain as a question mark unless investigated.

I've already said why I don't want a Rajam lynch.

I haven't thought much about a Kantrip lynch. If we're going that route, I would think it's ideal for him to use his (claimed) power instead of being lynched, so we get rid of two scumreads in one go. I'll reread Kantrip if anybody besides WL is seriously considering him as a lynch candidate.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't like Gorf. As Asidoh excellently pointed out, when he was here before his break, he did a whole lotta nothing trying to be played up as a whole lotta something. What really made me dislike him was early in the game, when Freeblock and Kantrip were going at it, Gorf was just...here. Not even trying to quell the debate--that was going nowhere fast and someone should've jumped in and rerailed the conversation--just there, making snide comments and staying out of it like a good scummer would.

Jerk

I'm kinda... on the fence about Laundry now. Sokr was still definitely mad scummy, sure, and it's not like I see a bunch of original new things coming from Laundry's end but... the spontanuity (god I hope that's the right word) and quickness of all of his reads makes it clear that it's not scripted. But then again I think of the fact that he was watching this game unfold as an observer, and I know that when I did that for BIM3 (I'm pretty sure it was BIM3) when I replaced into Chibo scum's slot, I had read the game prior to replacing in and had had Macman as a scum read and Zen as a null read, and just used all of the reasoning I had for those clowns without knowing they were my partners as my reasons for those reads, and posted my reads list as an observer... It's apparent that these reads are from Laundry as an outsider's POV... But I'd be fine with not lynching him toDay if that's what town goes for. I'm still totally for his wagon but I guess there can be some wiggle room :x...

Yo Laundry you still here?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Actually, yea, lemme make this abundantly clear for everybody:

LAUNDRY'S ALIGNMENT CAN NOT, AND WILL NOT, BE DETERMINABLE BASED ON HIS READS LIST SINCE HE HAD SAID READS BEFORE BEING IN THE GAME, AND THEREFORE, BEFORE HAVING ANY ALIGNMENT AND SUCH. SOKR SHOULD STILL BE JUDGED ON HIS SLOT, AND THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY ZERO LEEWAY JUST BECAUSE LAUNDRY REPLACED IN.​

 

[Asdioh]

That's also true. If you actually pay attention to a game before replacing in, you can replace into any slot with a default "town" mindset... and if necessary, make slight adjustments if you find yourself replacing into a scumslot and having to change a couple reads for convenience. >_<


At least we got an extra two days :/

 

[Asdioh]

whoa, it underlines in green despite the red text, because Gorf's default color is green? that's kinda cool.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Exactly.

For me it's underlined red o.o

 

[Asdioh]

maybe it correlates to the viewer's alignment.

Who else sees it in red?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

OH MAN ASDIOH I SEE WHAT YoU DID THERE THAT WAS HILARIOUS OH MY GOD I NEARLY PISSED MYSELF.

 

[July]

This quote reminds me of Sokr, not taking any stance really. She starts the post by agreeing with "really good points" of Gheb, to finish her post in a skeptical posture, so the purpose of quoting Gheb in the first place ends void. This quote gives me scummy vibes.

I have very clearly taken stances throughout the game. Just because I liked Gheb's points, including his points on Sokr, doesn't mean I have to agree with them. Gheb gives me good vibes from the thing I quoted BUT I couldn't agree to it because there are other considerations which I pointed out and which were equally valid for why T-Block's miller claim wasn't necessarily scummier than RR's.

This is a reach. RR barely got any pressure for counterclaiming.

I said it caused issues. Some of that was pressure, but to me just the fact that he had to claim toDay was an issue, and there was a lot of focus on working out the miller issue but that created talk of one of T-Block/RR has to be lynched toDay. Those are all issues that affected the flow of the game.

Overall my previous impression of July being null-leaning-town has changed now to null-leaning-scum. I think the towny impressions I got before were due to July being contingent and posting "correct" stuff, but now after a reread I think July has evaded risking her throat and be a more prominent voice in scumhunting by taking more firm stances; her pressure game is lackluster, and I also consider her reasons for being on T-block first mainly because of the not-really-being-miller gambit, and then on me mainly because she didn't like my clear on Asdioh and mentos (which can only be troublesome if I flip scum, so by now it's null because she isn't seeing the counterpart of me having town intent), are weak reasons.[/COLOR]

I disagree. I have been scumhunting, and if my pressure has been failing its because I only get to post about every other day due to classes, but it isn't for a lack of trying. Also your summary of my reasons I suspect you are ignoring a lot of reasons from my #626.

 

[Rajam]

July I'll address your post by part:

THIS IS A LONG POST ABOUT RAJAM. SORRY BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE.

Kantrip, do you base your suspicion on Tblock primarily on the contradiction you say there is?

Regardless of Tblock's gambit, of course he wouldn't confirm or deny if he had abilities besides his miller status. Also, since the gambit was focused on saying he was a miller, the fake flavor would be focused (almost) 100% only on that as well. I don't see a problem in that the fake flavor didn't address potential abilities

I can see why you consider Sokr town if you think T-block is scum, since it should be pretty obvious that Sokr =/= Tblock, but at the same time it would be really weird that neither of them is scum, so I think it's TvS. I think Sokr is scum so that implies I'm thinking now T-block is town

Hence I'm aiming now that you re-evaluate T-block's gambit and see it from the perspective that he only aimed at saying he was miller (when I say "saying he was", I'm referring to that he was just claiming miller status without confirming or denying eventual abilities), because his focus was at avoiding the NKill. Now that he claimed the gambit we all know it implies he has other ability/ies (if he hasn't then the gambit was unjustified and hence is scum), but obviously he wouldn't hint at that during the miller claim (neither confirm nor deny)

Can you explain that bolded paragraph, especially why it would be "really" weird if neither of them is scum?

Let's see; I still sustain that T-block =/= Sokr/WL. Both aren't scummates.

That post was shortly after I read that T-block revoked his miller claim so I was still dubious about it, and I was coming from considering T-block my main scum pick; at the same time I was already considering Sokr scum for being newbscum, so, I considered that one of them has to be scum, but also I already was decided in Tblock =/= Sokr, hence the "it's TvS". Now, as I said I still think Tblock =/= Sokr, and I think Tblock is town and Sokr scum, but it's not TvS in the sense that if Sokr somehow flips town, I wouldn't consider Tblock scum; I'd look elsewhere.

 

[July]

I agree that WL shouldn't be based just on his reads and that we have to consider Sokr's slot, but I still like Sokr/WL better than Rajam and I want Rajam lynched. Or Kantrip blowing up Rajam would be acceptable too.

 

[Rajam]

I've also changed my mind and I don't want Kantrip to use his ability at all - never, unless a detailed number analysis supports it which I doubt so. I don't want Kantrip to use his ability regardless of who is lynched toDay and regardless of flip. If I'm lynched toDay and flip town, wait until the next Day to lynch Sokr or someone else. Using Kantrip's ability this early and with no cop results is deffinitely too hasty. My read on town Kantrip is stronger than my read on scum Sokr, and my read on scum Sokr is already strong but Kantrip town is my strongest read in the game.

Also, FoS at all the people that approved the usage of Kantrip's ability on either me or Sokr just because we're scummy. A cop result, for example, is far better reason to use Kantrip's ability (if we ever want to use it) than on any player with no cop result regardless of how scummy can be. Again, FoS at all the people that derailed from the initial agreements that Kantrip's ability should be used on cop results. My personal thought also is that you can force Kantrip to use his ability if he ever becomes more scummy than townie, and you have several reads of the kind "player A doesn't go with B, A goes with C and D, B goes with C but not with E", etc. Also no one has strongly voiced suspicion on the credibility of Kantrip's ability and I want to know who thinks either Kantrip's ability could be fake or that Kantrip's ability could not correspond to a town ability; I don't understand the support on Kantrip using his ability when no one has voiced any suspicion of the ones mentioned before, or offered a number analysis of why it would be convenient instead of following a normal course

Mega FoS @ Jim Morrison complaining and encouraging everyone to ignore every post I make in his effort to keep me high in the scum side, based on the argument that it's outdated when I've still asked presented several relevant issues regardless of game's advancement. I'm putting this in another color because if I flip I want this to be seen as outstanding and important. I think Jim Morrison is faking/forcing a tunneling mindset on me

Scum is among Skor/Jim Morrison, then asianaussie, then Gorf, in that order imo

Bolded part I have no idea who all that encompasses, I think its quite a lot of people, but how heavily does that weigh into how suspicious someone is for you? As in, if you had a town read on them except they approved the usage of Kantrip's ability on you or Sokr, how does that affect your read on them?

I voiced doubt about Kantrip's ability and I established that I was focused on his content/intentions, not his claim to define his scumminess/towniness. I also think that even if you don't agree with how the discussions have gone, there have been quite a few valuable discussions about how Kantrip should use his ability from Gheb, mentosman, myself and others.

Yeah I think I did a poor selection of words with that general FoS; it was more of a thing that bothered me of Gheb, Tblock and others iirc, that after deciding it was wiser to wait to use Kantrip's ability, they changed their minds and wanted to use now in D1/N1. My reads on Gheb and Tblock were unaffected; I think the change of plans was just something stupid and it bothered me. Basically I thought Kantrip was town even before the claim, and the claim just strengthens that. I can't see scum claiming that sort of thing when it can easily be pressured to be proven at any time; I just think using the ability this early is not really the moment. It can be used later with more info on the table and if Kantrip begins to act scummy

 

[Kantrip]

ftr, I don't know where the BP crumb is. Sokr never specified it to me and Kantrip apparently pick up on it. yes, that is my role.

I lied. Sokr crumbed a completely different role. I want you to explain to me why you went along with the BP claim. Don't say you were avoiding a NK because I just plain won't believe you. Your slot is scummy at the moment, and is in no need of avoiding NKs. After you explain to me why you lied about your role, you can tell me what it really is. If you lie again, I can and will blow us both up.

@Whoever asked about my role targeting BPs: No need to ask the mod. It's a strongman kill and will permeate bulletproof if applicable.

 

[Kantrip]

And with that, my read on Sokr's slot does a complete turnaround as I catch his replacement in a bait trap.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Fine, blow me up, *******. I am what I claim.

 

[Asdioh]

Why did I see that coming v_v

Kantrip, you've considered that he's just going along with it in case he has some PR?

Except WL ninja denies that

THE WIFOM CONTINUES! *popcorn*

 

[Kantrip]

The thing is, I know exactly what role Sokr is, and BP isn't it.

I'm not going to believe that my speculation was wrong and that I just HAPPENED to GUESS your role, WL.

Vote: WashedLaundry

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

/shrug

you did. why aren't you blowing me up?

 

[Asdioh]

Anytime Kantrip says anything I'm inclined to disbelieve it at first >=(


Kantrip, if he refuses to claim otherwise soon, you should point out the role and crumbs before you do anything drastic.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nah, I want him to blow me up. If he's town, he'll do it.

 

[Kantrip]

Because lo and behold, lynching you is just as easy. Sokr's slot has been scummy and one of the only reasons I didn't want to lynch him was based on meta.

If I don't have to die to get you lynched I won't do it. I'll save it for a scummate of yours.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Or you're lying about your role and trying to use this as an opportunity not to use it.

If you're so certain, blow me up.

 

[Kantrip]

Anytime Kantrip says anything I'm inclined to disbelieve it at first >=(

Perfect. Eventually I can start throwing the truth in there and people won't believe me

No but really if this is a bad thing about my play I'll try to stop it for you, Asdioh.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

**** i don't have time for this nonsense

if i'm not asploded by the next post, lynch kantrip's lying *** tomorrow or force his real claim outta him.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

lord knows you all can't do proper logic anyway.

 

[Kantrip]

You're testing me.

You're trying to get a townie for a scum, since your lynch is imminent at this point.

If this isn't true, then claim what your role actually is so I can figure out if you're a lying scumbag or not.

 

[Kantrip]

If you are town you have no motivation to try to take me down with you.

Also you're the one with a huge wagon on them who should be claiming. Being caught in a lie is not so good for you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man I saw that shiz from a mile away, Kantrip, you should totes show what Sokr crumbed to disprove Laundry, but I DO think that you should blow Laundry up if you think he's scum just so we can get somebody else lynched while already having a dead scummy ya feel me?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I never said it wasn't true. I am a BP.

Thing is, kid, I think you're lying. Many people think you're lying. Gheb and Freeblock have both stated as much. And y'know what, I think you're scum for it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Anyways, I have to go. More important **** is calling me, so if y'all wanna be stupid, go right ahead. I'll address the game regularly from here on out.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

At this point, Asdioh (I think it was you who said we shouldn't reveal WL's crumb?), it's kinda necessary that Kantrip show the crumb he says Sokr laid.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah Gorf it was pretty telegraphed.

There was no BP crumb that was the point. Sokr didn't breadcrumb or insinuate that he is BP at all, and I am more than confident he is not since I know what role he is. That is, if he's town.

The reason I want WL to tell me first is so I can catch him in a contradiction. Nothing else will be conclusive.

 

[Kantrip]

**** I feel like doing it so bad just to prove that his sorry *** is wrong, but I know that's what he wants.

Taking a break.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It. Doesn't. Friggin. Matter. At. This. Point. If you know what Sokr's role is, and can prove it to us, it's KINDA vital that you do. Don't claim his role if your reasoning for knowing it is "just cuz", but you've already got him in a contradiction and you already know in your mind he's lying, sharing it with us would kinda sorta help move this process along... Oh and I still think you should blow em up if you're proving to be legit.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright here's the thing: I have no idea what Sokr's role is except I am PRETTY DAMN SURE it's not a PR.

What I know is that we are on semester break right now. Neither of us are busy at all and his replacing out, if it is activity based, is not because he's too busy but because he can't motivate himself to put it above other **** like Skyrim. If I know Sokr at all, I know he likes Power Roles the most. If he's not motivated enough to get on and play when he has the time to do so, it's because of one or two of these factors:

-He got Vanilla Townie and decided he can't play through it
-He is scum and was pressured by a scumbuddy to replace out so that his slot wouldn't be dead
-He was really disappointed with how bad his play has been and decided to just get out of the game

I have a fair chunk of reason to believe that the third factor is true regardless, and I'll bet my life in this game that one of the first two are as well.

That's all I've got, but I do know that the BP thing was a random bait and that it is very unlikely that it is actually WL's role. Unlikely to the point of negligibility.

 

[T-block]

i can't believe WL went for that. i thought it was hella transparent lol

hereby advocating use of kantrip's ability on WL as our lynch toDay. do it four to five days before the deadline imo.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The thing is... there's still a chance that that's WL's role, even with that whole PR thingy. It's not discriminent at all. Why would Sokr be exited for BP when there's really no Night action taking place (which I'm assuming is what is meant by the whole he likes PRs thing)...

Kantrip...

 

[Rajam]

I find Rajam scummier because I don't see him actually attempting to scumhunt and gain coherent reads on people. As others have said, his catch-up seems faked and things like asking Kantrip to explain his ability are unnecessary and just make it look like he's stimulating content when he's not. His claim that he doesn't care if his vote was the hammer was obviously anti-town, although I can't say that it is certainly a scumtell.

THEN, there is his post here:

vote: T-block

Super Mario RPG...? Anyways, this post seems like you had the urge to gain town points by creating a quick disconnection with me more than anything; I don't care if it was during RVS stage; my point stands.

Where he is concerned about T-Block gaining "town points" by creating a quick disconnect with him. why would a townie be worried about someone gaining town points by quickly "disconnecting" with them? The only way to gain town points by disconnecting with someone is if the person you are disconnecting with, in this case Rajam himself, is scum.

Finally, his recent posts have been all over the place and throwing his suspicions EVERYWHERE. He is suspicious of Jim Morrison and Sokr, but he also says one of T-Block/Sokr is likely scum, then FoS's anyone who is okay with Kantrip using his ability or not waiting on a cop result to use the ability, then he says after Sokr/Jim Morrison, aa and Gorf are suspicious and so on. Asdioh said he liked Rajam's changing his mind on Asdioh/mentos town, but I think his reasons for reopening suspicions of Asdioh are for something that Asdioh did very similar to Rajam's own FoS's. Finally, his reaction to the possibility of Kantrip using his ability has been panicked and has quickly gone from "okay", to "don't use it toNight" to "don't use it ever", especially as the lynch gets closer to Sokr. Sokr, on the other hand, has been pretty calm about Kantrip's ability and doesn't seem to distrust town opinion on how to use Kantrip's role effectively unlike Rajam.

Basically, I see Rajam lately floundering and throwing out many and sometimes vague accusations, contradicting himself and his own reads, and very suspicious and distrusting of anyone's input or theories about how to use Kantrip's ability. My vote stays on Rajam toDay.

My main concern with that was that T-block posted something absolutely irrelevant, so when looking at intent it seemed to me that he just wanted to send the message that he isn't scum with me (hence there is a disconnection between us); as I said earlier a player with more disconnections is unconsciously given slightly less probabilities of being scum; I thought that's what T-block aimed for

Regarding the rest, idk how being everywhere and constantly changing my reads is scummy; that's a null tell since town and scum do that equally. Changing my opinion on how and whether Kantrip should use his ability isn't a contradiction, is just me changing my oppinion.

I think those two last paragraphs of yours are particularly reach-ish and scummy; you pass a null tell as a scum one in the first; being everywhere isn't a mainly-scum attribute, and saying that I'm being contradictory is disguising what I'm really doing: I'm just changing my reads as every player does.