I'm not fond of it, but it's probably about even.
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I'm interested in your reasoning. Don't have experience on this matchup but have been pretty curious about it.I'm not fond of it, but it's probably about even.
I could believe a small advantage for either, but I don't see how it's like Sheik at all (no F-air lulz, but he does kill you earlier). I think Sheik is much worse for Wario.whenever i play this matchup i feel like a lot of wario's attacks straight up lose to fox's so i'm not sure it's even / our advantage - feels like you kinda have to rely on landing wafts else you get overwhelmed. sorta like sheik except fox can kill you earlier if you mess up. i'd say 45-55 fox advantage?
I disagree with the combo part on Fox's side having trouble. Because Wario is heavy, Fox is capable of linking weak N-air -> Up-smash, U-tilt -> (reverse) B-air, or U-tilt -> U-air. It's hard to properly DI vs Fox's U-tilt because it comes out on frame 3, it's a really good combo starter for Fox, and his running speed along the ground can catch up to Wario's DI without difficulty. Besides tomahawk jumps -> u-tilt, perfect-pivot u-tilt is something Foxes are getting very good at doing and can let Fox sneak into Wario's space to get the confirm.I actually think Wario wins this matchup. Wario outranges him, has no problem camping against him, escapes his combos better than many other characters, all the while Wario pressures Fox with his bite and waft (Wario also gets to bike freely whenever Fox uses his laser, not that his laser is that important anyway.) It's also worth noting that Wario has an easy time edgeguarding in this matchup and can outright murder Fox by spamming the dash attack on the edge. Wario's heaviness also doesn't help Fox at all. I'm pretty sure Wario wins this one, but I have limited tournament experience with this matchup.
Wario's large-ish frame and physics are not exactly nice to him when Fox gets in. His air speed helps him for sure, but the early percent combos Fox has on Wario are pretty scary. We rack damage on him fairly easily and it's not like he has a massive wall of disjoints like Rosa to keep us out. Additionally, Fox's ground and vertical speed allows him to cover Wario's landings well, but your air speed makes it a harder for us.I actually think Wario wins this matchup. Wario outranges him, has no problem camping against him, escapes his combos better than many other characters, all the while Wario pressures Fox with his bite and waft (Wario also gets to bike freely whenever Fox uses his laser, not that his laser is that important anyway.) It's also worth noting that Wario has an easy time edgeguarding in this matchup and can outright murder Fox by spamming the dash attack on the edge. Wario's heaviness also doesn't help Fox at all. I'm pretty sure Wario wins this one, but I have limited tournament experience with this matchup.
I think dreamland is hugely beneficial for Wario but that may just be me.I'm going to have to agree with what Cozy said about the matchup, and side with the favor being with Fox. I believe Fox has the tools to shut down a campy Wario using lasers and his in-n-out game is devastating to Wario. When it comes to the neutral, I believe Fox has the advantage. When it comes down to keeping momentum of the match, we both have good tools in doing so, but if we lose momentum its harder to gain it back. That's actually the way I see the matchup should be played. No/less camp and keep control.
A lot of what I would say has already been said, but I didnt see much discussion about stages so I'll add my opinion on the topic.
BF: I can see Battlefield being in favor of Wario as we can circle camp pretty well against fox. It takes out a good majority of his laser game, and when Fox jumps he basically has to commit to one airial choice, land back below the platform, or land on the platform (not likely since its a disadvantage) or land on the stage (these are obv options, but just illustrating that Fox doesnt have as many options as other characters like weaving around, command grabs, multi jumps, etc..) Fox can camp under a platform which makes it a challenge for Wario to get in, but if Wario gets in it is hard for Fox to get away due to platforms. We have stronger tools to juggle, and if Fox chooses to land on a platform and shield, there's that neutral B thing we tend to do. Omm Nom
FD: Well.. Depends on the play-style of the two players for this one. I can see it benefiting Fox more than Wario as we dont have platforms to "run away" or juggle on. Fox can force the approach with lasers, but Wario can run. It is EXTREMELY annoying to run after a Fox on this stage and I would ban it 100% of the time. I dont like playing on FD in general so i'm not going to say much at the risk of being bias.
SV: This would be my pick for starter and mostly everyone as it is king neutral. It is small enough to where whoever has control, or momentum, can keep it more effectively than a large FD or T&C. Less space to run means more in your face action. The moving platform above is a good get away if needed, but can also help Fox recover as it adds an extra option (assuming the platform is on that side)
Could talk about more stages, but this novel is long enough as it is.
I guess you are all expecting a number so I'll add that too. 60:40 Fox or 55:45 Fox. I've been seeing a lot of people get discouraged in a matchup just because it has been voted as "disadvantage" so I want to end on a note: knowing your options, the tools you have, setups and practicing the matchup will put YOU in the advantage when in a match. If your opponent doesnt know the little things about the matchup (followups, setups, option coverage, etc..), it is not in their favor. This might be obvious to a lot of people, but I see it happen rather often.
Dreamland is one of Fox's best stages because of the low ceiling letting him kill earlier. I wouldn't take a Fox there.I think dreamland is hugely beneficial for Wario but that may just be me.
It's got taller platforms than BF and the wind prevents camping on both sides, but due to the platforms, Wario can circle camp easier on this map despite the wind.
Dreamland having a low ceiling is a myth, the main platform's ceiling is the same as FD/Smashville/Duck Hunt/main Delfino.Dreamland is one of Fox's best stages because of the low ceiling letting him kill earlier. I wouldn't take a Fox there.
I also don't like going there when I play Wario either, I find I don't live as long.
This video says it has a lower ceiling than Battlefield and Miiverse:Dreamland having a low ceiling is a myth, the main platform's ceiling is the same as FD/Smashville/Duck Hunt/main Delfino.
That is correct. Not sure if you are implying all those other stages have "low" ceilings.This video says it has a lower ceiling than Battlefield and Miiverse
Whoops, sorry about that, I actually misread your post. That's what I get for reading through responses too quickly.That is correct. Not sure if you are implying all those other stages have "low" ceilings.
Any chance we could do multiple matchups at once like some of the other character forums do? There's lots of matchups to cover and it's going to take a long time at the current pace. Just a suggestion.Last week and we moving to Mario ;3
How does Wario get edgeguarded by Mario as long as he has the bike? We could recover to the other end of the stage either above or below it unless Mario can get high or low enough to hit us out of it.Mario main here I would like to share some input about mario 55:45 mario can combo wario pretty well and can punish wario laggier moves wario can also get edgeguarded as well his fireballs and airspeed make it easy for mario to approach however wario is heavy and hard to kill and he has good, kill power
Huh? Guess I forgot about that sorry about thatHow does Wario get edgeguarded by Mario as long as he has the bike? We could recover to the other end of the stage either above or below it unless Mario can get high or low enough to hit us out of it.
This has nothing to do with anything, but I just have to tell you that Pikachu is a guy.Mario -
I think Mario wins this. Fireballs are a real pain, and I feel like Wario can struggle alot against a campy Mario is he's behind. Mario has excellent shorthop options to get Wario off bike, and can of course combo Wario really well. I got knocked out by a good Mario last tourney. I don't think this is too bad because you can counter camp Mario but if you get behind you'll have issues.
55:45
Pika -
HATE this matchup. Pika can deal with bike really well, and Pika's hitbox is so small so she's fast, that's she's tough to bite and fart on. It's hard for Wario to play his passive campy style, PIka can just get to him so well. On the plus side fart kills really early if we land, as does upsmash. Pika has excellent answers to bike and her upsmash is a huge threat when we get to above 100%. Not an impossible matchup, but difficult.
60:40
I don't see how it could possibly be worse than that though. Pika is really good, but there's nothing I feel he does that completely shuts down Wario's game. Wario still has a very useable fair, bike, bite and fart combos which he can always do work with.
Really? Well I learned something today.This has nothing to do with anything, but I just have to tell you that Pikachu is a guy.
Ya. You can tell by looking at his tail. Girl Pikachu's have a slightly different design.Really? Well I learned something today.