Data Wah Wah Wah : The Wario Matchup thread

[ZeGlasses!]

I find that if Wario can get the first stock off in a match vs Sonic, the matchup is super lopsided in Wario's favor. Since Wario can just run the hell away since it's super hard for Sonic to kill a campy Wario.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

The same can be said for the other side. If Sonic gets the lead (and I believe him to have an easier time racking damage and he has a better neutral. I also play a competent Sonic), it's quite hard for Wario to land a substantial hit without committing (which Sonic wants).

 

[Syde7]

Hey there Warios!!

The ROB boards are currently discussing the Wario MU, and we'd love your input. Thanks in advance, and we hope to see you guys there!

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-23-wario.404754/

 

[Ridel]

Sonic I would say is 50/50 for the most part. Bite and Bike are super useful in this match-up and Wario has an easy time Wafting on his predictable recovery. Despite that I still think Sonic can handle his own since Wario has trouble dealing with good frame data and speed.

 

[Zorai]

I think Wario destroys Sonic personally. Just camp to win. Bite and bike are a living hell for him.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Warios out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Wario. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Wario match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/405499/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Steam]

Greetings, inferior character boards! The evil lucario empire is now discussing the wario matchup in this thread. Come have fun discussing the lucario matchup with a band of villainous furries!

 

[Waymas]

Last day for Sonic and we move to Luigi ;3

 

[Xeze]

My personal opinion on Sonic. Chomp is incredibly good against him. For neutral, short hop f-airs and n-airs. Bike is also good when he least expects it. Since Sonic is hard to catch with smash attacks, keep f-throw fresh for the KO.
Sonic has the speed but Wario can counter that with his tools.

Overall I would say 60:40

 

[SirJuicius]

Regarding Luigi... I play as him as well as Wario, so I have a few things to say about the MU (from a subjective standpoint - feel free to correct me in a polite manner)...

• Chomp will help negate Luigi's fireballs. The fireballs are used as a way of creating an opportunity for Luigi to safely approach an opponent while they deal with the fireball. Ideally, they'd like to grab you, d-throw you and hit a few fairs, uair, nair or d-special. Getting rid of the fireballs will help Wario immensely in sustaining momentum.

• Watch out for the little hits, like jabs and nair. Luigi's nair does a fantastic job in dealing damage, as it has a good hitbox with good priority. Luigi's jabs are also something to be cautious of. They have a good reach (especially the final jab) and deal favorable knockback for Luigi so that he can follow up with a dash attack.

• Don't get caught in the air too much. Perhaps a saving grace is that Wario's fall speed is good to where he can't be mercilessly juggled by Luigi's utilt. Regardless, it's best to stay as close to the ground as possible. That's where Wario's game needs to be. Luigi has excellent air attacks. Watch out for the d-special when you're around 110-120% damage. If he gets you high enough in the air when executing the move, it'll likely be a KO.

• Don't get grabbed. This probably should have been the first bit of advice, as it should for just about EVERY character MU against Luigi. To be blunt, one grab can determine the outcome of the match. Normally, Luigi's grab > d-throw combo can rack anywhere between 45-67% damage in very little time. This for the most part is Luigi's bread and butter. If he whiffs on a grab, don't go for a Smash Attack. Go for an f-tilt. It's faster and does a respectable amount of damage.

• Utilize the bike. This is certainly one way to avoid worrying about Luigi's grab. But just make sure you recognize that the bike should be used as a diversion. Get on the bike, zip it forward, hop off and then proceed to do the next thing. If the bike hits, great. You can probably follow it up with a dash attack or if it sends Luigi in the air, you can try nair, fair, bair or uair - depending on the position. But remember that Luigi has excellent air moves that will likely have priority over any of Wario's air moves. So don't just airmail the attack you're going to use. Wait to see if Luigi does anything. If he tries a nair, get out of the way. That nair has a long-lasting hitbox. D-special is also something to look out for.

• Punish. As fantastic as Luigi is, he has a very predictable way of playing and while most of his moves are excellent, they are not perfect and they are not perfect because some can be punished. Take the d-special for example. Does a good job of accumulating damage and can be followed up with an air move. But if you shield it all the way, Luigi will be vulnerable for a brief period of time and that's when you can use a Smash Attack such as f-smash. U-special, while not an often used move, has distinctive vulnerability frames. Shield the uppercut, just wait for Luigi to come back down while following him and then punish with an f-smash. Dash attack also has a brief period of vulnerability, but using f-smash is not recommended. I'd say use d-smash.

• Don't get punished. Simple enough, right? Well, remember that grab. It'll hurt you if you forget about the grab. So keep the Smash Attacks to a minimum. Wario's got great tilt moves anyway, which are far more reliable.

• Rack up the damage. Again, sounds simple enough, but there are times when you just want to use that power Wario has to crush flies in the room. But Wario has fantastic moves on the ground that don't require him to exert his power at the expense of lag. Ftilt, dash attack, jab, utilt and fair are great moves that rack up damage. Try tripping up Luigi with a dash attack and then follow up with an ftilt. If you don't trip Luigi, you'll pop him up. Utilt would be the way to go after popping him up. You can get at least one in on Luigi. Jab breaks up momentum pretty well and the second one pops the opponent upward. Good chance for a utilt. Ftilt is probably my favorite move of Wario's. It's fast, packs good power and can KO opponents at around 110%.

Overall, Wario presents Luigi a good counter. Luigi presents Wario a good challenge. But at the end of the day, the matchup comes down to who has more reliable moves. Luigi has reliable moves up his sleeve and down his trousers, while Wario has good, but not always reliable moves. Move priority is also a factor, as Luigi's moves for the most part trump Wario's.

60:40 - Advantage

 

[Waymas]

Let's move us to the Luigi MU now ;3

 

[Sari]

*Snip of everything*

This is great although I feel that there are a few other things worth mentioning/adding:

• Wario can usually get out of some of Luigi's d-throw combos by up-B, n-air if it connects correctly, and I think a half-charged waft (I don't think any of these can beat a follow up by Luigi's n-air though).
• Chomp is not the best way to deal with fireballs since Luigi can easily follow up with a grab or even another fireball.
• It's possible to DI out of Luigi's down-B in the air by repeatedly mashing down every time you get hit. Even if you do this and you get hit by last part, you'll most likely be low enough that you won't be KO'd (well unless you're right at the top of the screen).
• Luigi's recovery pales in comparison to Wario's. Luigi's side-B if used to get back on the stage can be easily punished by a few aerials near the end of the animation, and while double jump + down-B is great for recovering, it can also be punished thanks to the lengthy ending animation on the down-B. Also up-B only goes straight up which basically forces a Luigi to recover from directly below the ledge (which can easily be followed up by a d-air or even a waft). Wario's bike allows for much better recovery and his faster fall speed makes it easier to land safely back on stage.
• Luigi in general has a tough time approaching/grabbing Wario thanks to the bike and some of Wario's attacks like his d-tilt being able to stop his grabs. Also the longer Luigi doesn't approach Wario the more waft he'll have built up.

I feel like it's a solid 50:50 because of Wario being a better defensive character and having better/not as punishable KO moves, as well as his ok-ish ways of dealing with Luigi's already annoying combo game.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

This is one of the few matchups I am not super-duper positive on, but I'll throw out what I can just because.

• Wario is very susceptible to Luigi's throw combos. He's floaty, yes, but he is still "heavy" and will almost always get hit with something(s) out of a dthrow until somewhat late %'s.
• In contrast, Wario's great airspeed and maneuverability makes it hard to grab him, which Luigi relies heavily on for damage.
• Luigi has way better frame data than Wario, so trying to poke in and out with aerials is difficult due to how quick and safe Luigi's aerials are.
• Luigi's recovery is pretty crap horizontally, and so offstage he struggles immensely against the gimping machine that is Wario. He has to watch out for mixups, though.
• Luigi deals with bike very very well. Fair and Fireball can knock Wario off the bike very easily, and Nair can actually oneshot it.

I seriously need some experience in the Luigi matchup, I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

From what I've fought, I think it is 40-60 in Luigi's favor.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Guys embrace passive play. Do not approach. Luigi cannot catch Wario. Stall for waft, and the moment Luigi is off stage we win. Losing the first stock is far more crucial for Luigi than it is for Wario. Abuse the fact that you're using the only character that gets rewarded for doing nothing.

We win this if we play our cards right.

 

[Xeze]

Trying to chomp Luigi offstage might be a good idea since Wario can recover pretty well with Bike + Up B, where Luigi relies heavily on his double jump to make it back safely.

 

[SirJuicius]

• Chomp is not the best way to deal with fireballs since Luigi can easily follow up with a grab or even another fireball.

I can confirm this. Can be used but I should have said that it comes at a risk. If only there was less lag post digestion... that's a funny sentence.

 

[TriTails]

Chomp definitely is a big no-no against Fireball. Wario will eat it and you just gave Luigi a free grab. Camp the **** out of this character. Fly over his head and stay unpredictable on your landing. Send bikes if you have to.

By the way:

• It's possible to DI out of Luigi's down-B in the air by repeatedly mashing down every time you get hit. Even if you do this and you get hit by last part, you'll most likely be low enough that you won't be KO'd (well unless you're right at the top of the screen).

Luigi won't let you fall off, even if it means stopping his mashing. He better off putting you in slight disadvantage above him rather than letting you U-air him from below and possibly KO him instead.

• In contrast, Wario's great airspeed and maneuverability makes it hard to grab him, which Luigi relies heavily on for damage.

Lelwut? I'm not gonna grab you if you stay in the air. Instead, I'll hit you with a F5 U-air that deals 11% if I read you right.

Luigi actually doesn't rely on grabs to rack up damage (But it DOES make it significantly easier), he relies on his fastest attack speed on his normals and his unusually strong damage output for a middleweight to rack up damage. I mean, 11% U-air that comes out at F5? Yep. That's frickin' awesome. 10% jab combo? I'll take that. 14% F6 B-air? Yeah (But personally, I think Doc's WAY better if the knockback's the same), my smash attack in the air.

• Luigi has way better frame data than Wario, so trying to poke in and out with aerials is difficult due to how quick and safe Luigi's aerials are.

Luigi's aerials are NOT safe. At least, on shield. B-air is safe on shield when spaced, but is a big sitting duck otherwise.

• Luigi deals with bike very very well. Fair and Fireball can knock Wario off the bike very easily, and Nair can actually oneshot it.

Bike stuffs Fireballs though... and you can punish Luigi for throwing a wrong Fireball. N-air and Cyclone > F-air when VS-ing Wario's bike. Though, F-air is also gud.

Forgive my scrubbiness, but I never fought a Wario that camp the living thing out of Luigi. So I can't put too much analysis. But I think this is 55:45 to 60:40 Wario's favor due to... erespid and mobility. Luigi may be able to catch Wario if he manages to read him... but oh well.

*Hoping for Boss/Mr. CC/J. Miller VS a campy Wario so I can see how those players adapt *.

 

[DavemanCozy]

This is a general thing about fighting Luigi, no matter which character you play against him: the way to go up against him is hit and run. He excels at everything except recovering, and it's one of the most lame characters to fight in the game, but it's the way it is. His N-air is too good of a string breaker, you really don't want to get grabbed by him since he has too many ridiculous combo, gimp options and KO confirms just off d-throw, his fireball is really good for approaching and stuffing approaches, and his priority is crazy stupid.

I think this MU is in Luigi's favour, not in Wario's.

 

[TriTails]

I think this MU is in Luigi's favour, not in Wario's.

And then you realize he is as slow as ****.

Wario isn't as easily gimpable (Maybe near impossible), camps Luigi out well, and have that dangerous Waft. Once Luigi gets in, he'd be putting salad to Wario's mouth, but that is. If Luigi can catch the dang fat plumber in the first place.

Agreesive Warios vs Luigi would end up in solid Luigi's favor. It's just a campy Wario vs Luigi that we have yet to see.

Reflex also agrees this is in Wario's favor simply on how Wario can stay out of Luigi's optimal range until Waft is ready. Though, I'd be interested on vids.

 

[DavemanCozy]

And then you realize he is as slow as ****.

Wario isn't as easily gimpable (Maybe near impossible), camps Luigi out well, and have that dangerous Waft. Once Luigi gets in, he'd be putting salad to Wario's mouth, but that is. If Luigi can catch the dang fat plumber in the first place.

Agreesive Warios vs Luigi would end up in solid Luigi's favor. It's just a campy Wario vs Luigi that we have yet to see.

Reflex also agrees this is in Wario's favor simply on how Wario can stay out of Luigi's optimal range until Waft is ready. Though, I'd be interested on vids.

Reflex may say it's in Wario's favour, but Poke from Canada plays the Wario MU all the time with Gi and he says it's in Luigi's favor. So I guess we're at a stalemate here. I'd love to see some vids too to support that the MU is in Wario's favour though, because Luigi gives me a hell of a hard time as Fox.

 

[TriTails]

Perhaps it's because that Canadian Wario player doesn't camp Luigi enough. Aggresive Warios will get bopped by Luigis.

But I guess we will need vids to prove it. I mean, who knows? Boss/Mr. CC/J. Miller, etc may be able to pull out a legendary adaptation technique that will bopps every campy characters .

 

[DavemanCozy]

Canadian Warios are also as rare as Meta Knight mains, lmao. I'll try playing this MU with Wario next time instead of Fox, and I'll just go full campy in it. Maybe Wario is the counterpick I've been looking for Luigi.

 

[| Big D |]

 

[adom4]

I know you're not discussing it right now, but what do you think of the Wario vs Ganondorf matchup?
I'm curious because i have never played a good Wario & i want to know what you guys think of the matchup.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

I know you're not discussing it right now, but what do you think of the Wario vs Ganondorf matchup?
I'm curious because i have never played a good Wario & i want to know what you guys think of the matchup.

Ganondorf can't approach for jack and against Wario, it's made even more clear. You gotta be WAY more careful with use of your use of Flame Choke and Wizard Kick because those moves just get eaten. Ganondorf is only better at poking. I don't have enough high-level experience in this matchup, but I imagine Wario wins this one.

 

[Axel311]

I know you're not discussing it right now, but what do you think of the Wario vs Ganondorf matchup?
I'm curious because i have never played a good Wario & i want to know what you guys think of the matchup.

Gannon boards covered this matchup in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-dark-arts-of-ganon-match-up-discussion-current-diddy-kong.373934/

They think it's slightly in gannon's favor.

 

[shoff]

Wario losses the Luigi matchup. Its actually pretty bad for Wario... really bad. 65 -35...maybe 60- 40.... Luigi has far too many options to cover most of ours, and to be perfectly honest, has to respect nothing Wario has aside from his fart... nothing. I have heard some say you cant gimp Wario easily, but he really can with his great aerials and cyclone. He can drop much lower than you think, so we are most often forced to recover really high. Our only advantage is our air mobility, but we either lose or trade unfavorably in the air anyway. Attacking from above fireball range is usually the best way to approach those that like to throw them a lot. As I mentioned before, we have to respect Luigis air game, normals, specials, and grab set ups and combos, he has to respect very little. His damage output is far better than ours so after a grab or two he has done massive damage while we have spent the entire time trying to poke here and there to build half of that. I have played a few top Luigis on Anthers and discussed the matchup with them, and they agree. Not one has said the matchup may be even. Most say its free.
As far as combo breaking goes, dont waste the waft, doesnt work unless there is an error on their part, or they are going for an airdodge bait, startup is too slow and you will be left with no gas. Try not to airdodge after any grabs or juggles, its best to just take the follow up instead of an early up B kill or smash attack. I prefer to use forward air to try and break a few of his set ups since its just as fast as Nair and you dont have to worry about whiffing. Up B also fails most of the time and puts us in a bad situation if blocked or dodged.
Edge guarding is def a great option for us, but once again, dont risk anything that will put you under him, such as fast falling a down air. is down B will insure you waste you bike opportunity or he can just spike you. Best best is to waft or use an aerial after the cool down from side B or Cyclone when he tries to recover. Until then try and poke him into the range needed to set it up. I have had a great deal of success with biting off stage as well. If you catch a forward B during cool down, or any other opportunity, the knock back from our bite sends him at a bad angle and his side b becomes useless, and many times cyclone wont be enuff, free stock! Without wasting gas.
Using the bike is also sometimes risky, especially if you face a luigi that does not heavily rely on fireball setups, if they do rely on fire balls ride it, but not for the bike damage, just for the setup. Watch and see if he blocks, rolls, jumps, etc and punish. but dont ride close to him, unless its to absorb a hit on the ground to deal damage and get away.
I am experimenting with uptilt and up air as well. With the invincibility he has in his hands, we may be able to keep a few of his options in check. It is a bit risky, but better than outright losing several trades. Aside from that Uair does great damage compared to our other normals.
Those are the main things I can think of right now.

Gannon boards covered this matchup in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-dark-arts-of-ganon-match-up-discussion-current-diddy-kong.373934/

They think it's slightly in gannon's favor.

Yes, Ganon beats Wario. Damage output is insane, range, out prioritizes many of our aerials, kills early, and forces us to respect his horizontal recovery attempts. We can combo and gimp him pretty well tho. Just be annoying and bite as much as possible, punish his ground attacks with dash attack as it is pretty fast. dont ever get greedy, stay patient.

 

[Lwin]

Yes, Ganon beats Wario. Damage output is insane, range, out prioritizes many of our aerials, kills early, and forces us to respect his horizontal recovery attempts. We can combo and gimp him pretty well tho. Just be annoying and bite as much as possible, punish his ground attacks with dash attack as it is pretty fast. dont ever get greedy, stay patient.

I disagree, ive yet to play a really good ganon, but most I've played get made quick work of. I'm not sure what you mean by we have to respect his horizontal recovery. The only way I get ganoncided is if I mess up hitting him out of it and when I do its goodbye stockstock anyway lol. All you have to do is sit on the edge and wait to see if he goes for the side B or goes low instead. I do think ganon wins neutral slightly but even that is debatable. Wario can just run away and platform camp for waft and then what? Ganon only wins in neutral if he plays safe, but he can't stay safe forever. As many here have stated before wario wins the stalemate simply because of the fart. Wario forces Ganon to give chase to him and what does Ganon have as approach options? Stuff that'll get him offstage if punished. The only chance Ganons have of winning this mu is if its taken to FD or SV. Otherwise you're gonna have to rely on winning neutral like twice or three times as much as your opponent, i.e outplaying them. Because you shouldn't expect to punish Wario's landings consistently on stages where he has so many landing options.
On the plus side , if the wario commits to things in neutral you've got some really damaging punishes to deal with his lackluster approaches. But we're talking top level, a wario won't do this unless they think they really have a number on you, so id imagine baiting stuff out works extra well against wario. Your best hope of beating wario again is taking him to a more ground based stage where you threaten him much more.
I'd give this matchup a 60:40 in Wario's favor. I'm assuming the Ganon boards misgauged how safe and campy optimal wario play is.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Wario destroys Ganondorf, and their little thread discussing the matchup is pathetically wrong. Ganondorf is actually worse at approaching than Wario is, is easy as piss to Waft on, has no answer to Wario playing defensively, and gets juggled by the nair very easily. Oh, and their assessment on Wario's weight isn't even correct, which shows how little research went into studying the matchup.

All you have to do is play patiently as Wario and the match up is 7-3 in his favour.

 

[Spinosaurus]

The only way for Ganon to beat Wario that solidly is if there was any input lag.

 

[TriTails]

Ganon beats everyone solidly if there was any noticeable input lag.

Fixed to sound more appropriate.

No. I don't mean whenever you play as Ganon, you HAVE to pray for input lag. Ganon can put up some work in some MU, but if there's input lag... ugh. Just either try to win or SD right away. Because all Ganon need is to press buttons to win.

 

[shoff]

To begin with, I am a very aggressive Wario. I honestly think he is more suited as that type of character. My main objective is to apply safe pressure until they are forced to shield, roll, whatever, and punish while continuously pressuring them. I will not say that a campy Wario is ineffective though, since many matches that I have lost could have probably been won with that type of play style. The Ganon matchup is in no way free. And yes, it becomes a bit harder online if there is lag since Wario needs precision. Thing is, we can exploit him in a few situations, but he can do the same...harder. Considering you are playing a Ganon just as good as you and actually knows the matchup it becomes even or slightly in his favor. Upsmash, jab, forward tilt all do work against our low hop aerials, his upair beats our approaches clean and and trade wont be in our favor, his damage output wafts all over ours, and he can kill really early off of a read or punish. Our objective in this matchup is to try and safely get that damage thru pokes, and safe pressure. The fact that we have to wait and see if he will do his forward b when approaching is the very definition of respect. If we are on the last stock, I will not stand near the edge, nor will I approach him laterally while off the stage, plain and simple. When Wario has the stock lead, then its time to do what we want, since a suicide will only result in us staying ahead. As far as farting goes, I find it pretty tricky to land one on good Ganons. Many times his forward smash is too safe to punish after shielding unless we are right in his face and perfect shield it. On a high level they wont be throwing around short hopped dairs etc etc. But while we can get a free waft off of a dash attack or so, many times its just not a good idea to stand in one spot in that range since he can get off a forward b. Even if Ganon has a slight advantage, I have won more than I have lost, even against really great Ganons, but it has never been easy. And I am no scrub btw, I do pretty well on Anthers, not Wii U... controller johns... lol

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

To begin with, I am a very aggressive Wario. I honestly think he is more suited as that type of character. My main objective is to apply safe pressure until they are forced to shield, roll, whatever, and punish while continuously pressuring them. I will not say that a campy Wario is ineffective though, since many matches that I have lost could have probably been won with that type of play style. The Ganon matchup is in no way free. And yes, it becomes a bit harder online if there is lag since Wario needs precision. Thing is, we can exploit him in a few situations, but he can do the same...harder. Considering you are playing a Ganon just as good as you and actually knows the matchup it becomes even or slightly in his favor. Upsmash, jab, forward tilt all do work against our low hop aerials, his upair beats our approaches clean and and trade wont be in our favor, his damage output wafts all over ours, and he can kill really early off of a read or punish. Our objective in this matchup is to try and safely get that damage thru pokes, and safe pressure. The fact that we have to wait and see if he will do his forward b when approaching is the very definition of respect. If we are on the last stock, I will not stand near the edge, nor will I approach him laterally while off the stage, plain and simple. When Wario has the stock lead, then its time to do what we want, since a suicide will only result in us staying ahead. As far as farting goes, I find it pretty tricky to land one on good Ganons. Many times his forward smash is too safe to punish after shielding unless we are right in his face and perfect shield it. On a high level they wont be throwing around short hopped dairs etc etc. But while we can get a free waft off of a dash attack or so, many times its just not a good idea to stand in one spot in that range since he can get off a forward b. Even if Ganon has a slight advantage, I have won more than I have lost, even against really great Ganons, but it has never been easy. And I am no scrub btw, I do pretty well on Anthers, not Wii U... controller johns... lol

You're going to have a hard time if you're trying to play Wario aggressively. Wario gets more rewards of bait/punish and patience than he does out of aggression. Out of personal experience, you outright lose already bad matchups like Shiek and Pikachu if you try to be aggresive and I've learned this from personal experience. If you're that worried about the risk of gimping Ganon, then don't gimp unless you're a stock ahead. Just be patient and get him to a percent where he'll either get KOd to a setup, Waft or even where he's launched far enough that he can't make it back. If you really can't land Waft on good Ganon's, have you tried using extended hitbox Wafts or even the combo of 2nd hit of NAir to Waft? That'll still combo on Ganon around 50% and KO him.

 

[TriTails]

Ganon isn't hard to gimp. Unless he is real he isn't going to use his Flame Choke anywhere but near the ledge horizontally, and Dark Dive's grab is ***.

 

[Axel311]

Back to Luigi -

I feel Wario does fine in this matchup. So much of Luigi's game is from fireball to grab to Dthrow setups, and Wario being in the air so much makes it difficult for Luigi to get that going. Playing a campy Wario I don't think is losing here. Luigi has to approach. Then again when wario is grabbed or caught in the air by a luigi aerial he can get combo'ed badly. I don't have tons of matchup experience with luigi and am by no means a wario expert but I'm going to say 50:50 just because Wario being so aerial based can give Luigi fits, Wario doesn't have to approach, and Luigi really wants to approach from the ground and grab but he can't most of the time because Wario is so often in the air.

 

[Waymas]

Guys embrace passive play. Do not approach. Luigi cannot catch Wario. Stall for waft, and the moment Luigi is off stage we win. Losing the first stock is far more crucial for Luigi than it is for Wario. Abuse the fact that you're using the only character that gets rewarded for doing nothing.

We win this if we play our cards right.

Totally agree with @ Spinosaurus . There's no need to approach Luigi, Wario excels at camping guys don't forget it.

 

[TriTails]

This is a fatal mistake everyone often make.

Luigi's game isn't simply 'lol Fireball D-throw lol'. If you can even land the D-throw, you can't do much unless you used one of Luigi's greatest assets.

And that is his aerials.

You may be able to fly over his head, avoiding grabs. But please DO remember his U-air is frame 5 and deals 11%. 11%. Oh wow, and it comes out on F5. Luigi won't bother fishing for grabs, instead he will go doing an aerial battle with you.

Actually. Aerial battle is a polite way on putting it. Catch the fat plumber game is more like it. But remember, Luigi has 3rd highest jump (Tied with ZSS from what I can test), and his aerials hit hard. Luigi CAN catch Wario, it's just very hard and... infuriating. But Wario still win this fight simply on how he can ride the wind and suddenly just fart in Luigi's face.

 

[DavemanCozy]

If we're talking about playing lame, Duck Hunt is the way to go against Luigi and just about every slow character in the game, imo. The large size and the trees let Wario camp him out, and you can bike from the tree to the bush, so essentially you're travelling with this big hitbox.

 

[shoff]

Do not agree. Wario can not simply run away from Luigi. His damage output is far greater than ours, he wins in the air, and his down b can cover a good distance really fast on the ground. It can be very difficult to punish his upsmash as well. I dont understand how you guys are playing because running in this matchup is pretty pointless. Playing safe I agree with, but simply relying on doing damage and running away will not work. Off of a single down throw he is going to land a huge amount of damage, damage that you cant just give back with a few shots and run. Saying dont get grabbed is not smart, its going to happen. In fact, its not that hard. He will win the exchanges and when the timer starts to run out you will most likely be the one chasing him because you have a higher percent than him. That being said, I do think playing cautious and not as aggressive may work at certain times. My approach with Luigi has been to stay on him whenever I have the chance, and has allowed me to do pretty well against many really good ones. When a situation is bad, distance yourself and calmly reset. And as mentioned before, Luigi can capitalize on any mistake and change the game instantly. Airdodge into the ground just once and you die at 90 percent from his up b. Get caught by one grab at the right percent, DI wrong once near the edge, let him read one recovery. Etc etc. While we have a powerful down b that can kill, onstage, landing this is very very difficult unless he makes a huge mistake. Our off stage gimping is our best bet here. Just have to respect the fact that we are outclassed on the ground and in the air in this matchup. Oh, and approach above him until he begins to react by shielding or upairing you, then mix it up. And daveman those trees may work in luigis favor as they let him land, giving him double jumps again. Not to mention if he gets a grab up there its over. I prefer to take them to FD honestly.

 

[Lwin]

Not enough substantial mu knowledge to say anything about Luigi, but I do think one of our best stages against him is dreamland as it gives us space to run and platforms for mixups/safety. I also believe that a bigger stage benefits us more than it does him since I think we can edgeguard him efficiently, which is pretty huge imo.
Luigi does have an easier time in neutral so we're going to have to make our hits count and be methodical about our approaches. As always we can stick to our usual campy play and in theory this makes Luigi have to put in a lot of work in order to approach. Capitalizing on his poor movement shouldnt be too hard honestly, its just that Luigi doesn't need to win neutral often in order to win. Also @ shoff the point of staying safe and running away is to buy time to charge waft, so its not too big of a deal if don't get much damage in since we can rely mostly on edgeguarding and waft. Speaking of which, once waft is fully charged Luigi's combo game is essentially a game of Russian roulette since we can punish him severely with fart if we're smart about it. This is a matchup I'd definitely want to see more of since its pretty interesting in theory.
Anyone know if rising tornado loses to our dair? I'm pretty sure it does, but would like confirmation since that's pretty significant.