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vs sheik

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
this b*tch is ridiculous.. falcon's worst matchup maybe

*uthrow uair regrab at ~30%
*once she's off the stage she should be dead. if you're < 100%, your normal ledge getup -> bair covers all her options if she hugs the stage with up-b. if she doesn't, stomp -> backwards knee or just ledgehop backwards knee
***** her with uairs when she's above you
*needles don't do anything to falcon, just jump over them and ****

discuss
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
\ if you're < 100%, your normal ledge getup -> bair covers all her options if she hugs the stage with up-b. if she doesn't, stomp -> backwards knee or just ledgehop backwards knee
Can you explain this a little more/timing info? IDK what you mean by hugging stage with upb. Are you talking about sweetspot?

Trick: You can dropzone her just like a spacie. Like a spacie she can DI it but they don't usually look out for it.
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Getting out of Sheik's tech chases
1. Mango's "rotate the stick" trick
2. SDI up when she jabs your missed tech
3. Buffer rolls with C-stick
4. Immediate gentleman
5. Immediate raptor boosts.. I dunno, works for g-reg.
 

Roneblaster

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
6,041
Location
#MangoNation
Change characters?

Just kidding, thats blasphemy. Dont get grabbed, and smash DI the jab. And dont use your double jump near the edge, cause your just gonna get *****-slapped and die.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
uthrow regrab at 0% with no DI.

When she recovers to the stage, if at mid percents instead of taking the easy ledgehop knee do a dair first for more damage.

At percents varying around 90 to 100 and even higher, uthrow full jump knee.

If sheik hits you with an ftilt while you're in your shield you can up+b and hit her guaranteed. (proper timing required)

Most sheiks will try to dthrow techchase you to death. There are not many things you can try, but if you see any room for opening an instant raptor boost or gentlmen from a DIaway/tech away may create the gap necessary for you to get up and use this tactic. Otherwise, with low platforms, DI hard up or SDI jabs to get onto the platforms at higher percents. Attempt getting off stage at lower percents and DJ uair very fast to stop their follow up. DI the dthrow very close to them but right behind them, hope they dont turn around and try a normal grab... but again these things are all pretty unreliable there's not much that's very legit to escape her dthrow techchasing it's the only thing that unbalances this matchup.

Because frankly she's very easy to combo like marth!
 

Mokumo

Smash Ace
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
885
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
ledgehope uair -> knee can work pretty well too, especially if you've acclimated them to survival DIing the ****e out of your knees. this concept works against pretty much everyone, i think
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
Getting out of Sheik's tech chases
1. Mango's "rotate the stick" trick
2. SDI up when she jabs your missed tech
3. Buffer rolls with C-stick
4. Immediate gentleman
5. Immediate raptor boosts.. I dunno, works for g-reg.
can you elaborate on 1 and 2? i've done 2 sometimes but idk how to be consistent with it

also, dthrow (dropzone) dair nipple spikes her at nearly all percents. :)
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
i'd also like the clarification on the rotate the stick trick. random DI? doesn't seem too useful

Not sure what jab he's talking about for #2, but if it's not after a flubbed tech then SDI'ing up will get you out of regrab and you can DJ out but she can still ftilt you. idk i'd like to hear more on that also
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
uthrow regrab at 0% with no DI.
I haven't tested it out much but I've found 'U-Throw->Gentleman->JC Grab' to work pretty well here too when I've tried it. IIRC if they DI the gentleman away they're stunned until they land and the grab gets them during landlag. You often steal their 2nd jump anyway if they try to jump out of the u-throw. If they go high you might be able to u/n-air if you're quick instead of the regrab.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Mango's trick is to just spin the control stick fast, because ANY sdi gets you out, not just up sdi.


edit before i get ***** by magus- magus did disprove its usefulness at 0%. below a certain percent non-up sdi doesn't actually save you.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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Dec 13, 2003
Messages
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Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
You go into forced getup if you are on the ground again by the time the little animation you go into after being hit off the ground completes. The vertical knockback from the hit combined with any A/SDI needs to lift you up high enough so that you're still in the air when it ends (you switch into a neutral fall after it able to do whatever or simply land on your feet). If you end up A/SDIing somewhere that is not in an upwards direction it's not doing **** to help you get out of it, as you're not putting any more distance between you and the floor to give yourself more airtime.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
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Northern IL
there are 8 points on the control stick that when passed during hitlag count as new sdi inputs. Because of this, things like quarter circle DI and magus SDI work.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
Yeah but won't rotating put in conflicting SDI's? (i.e. inputting left/right up/down) What sort of effect does that achieve?

Or are we just talking using quarter circle?
 

Animal

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,142
Yeah but won't rotating put in conflicting SDI's? (i.e. inputting left/right up/down) What sort of effect does that achieve?

Or are we just talking using quarter circle?
i think the frame of the attack is too quick to be THAT conflicting
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
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Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,559
i hold up on both sticks when they jab reset to get out of the techchase...
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
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Grancypher
her tilts are ******** on all of falcons normal approaches. shieks generally try to stay grounded in the matchup.

or thats what im always told to do anyway :/


cc is gay.
 

P.C. Jona

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
3,175
yea sheik should have the advantage all the time on the ground cuz theres no start up lag or ending lag on all her tilts

you can just stand there and ftilt all day and make everyone just quit smash

or you can tech chase us like homos with dthrow then ftilt >fair and make us quit smash

or you can sandbag and let us take 3 stocks b4 we lose that way we dont ban your character like metaknight

i prefer the last one

the key to beating sheiks ftilt wall is actually falcon kick

same goes with space animals uptilt wall
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
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well i know at low percents fox can cc shieks ftilt then run in and grab

i dont konw if that works for falcon tho.

once you get shiek in the air/above you, you have the advantage imo.
 

Bob Money

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
913
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Concord
I don't main falcon but don't forget to CC her **** alot cuz falcons heavy and can CC for along time. CC to Grab or Dash away (Whiffed ftilt or grab is good)or CC jab to block etc. You really shouldn't be getting jab-grabbed by shiek under 40

also light shielding up close isnt too bad once in awhile if she is spaming **** on your shield. This makes it so your out of range for her jab. (Ftilt jab Ftilt Jab down tilt etc.)
 

jugfingers

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
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kuu'lahngwntruhsks
what about dthrow jc chaingrab? I can usually get a couple at 0% before sheik Di's away far enough but then its kind of a nice setup for an easy techchase into some combo or sometin

can falcon actually jc a dash re-grab off of dthrow at 0% or do I just play against people with terrible di?

anyways its pretty fun and looks pretty ******.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
Falcon can do it versus lots of chars but it's just really really easy to DI out of so yeah it's okay but meh uthrow combos dthrow will lead to tech chase.
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
jugfingers thats a really weird post

you say in the first sentence that you can do it until they DI away

then ask whether it works or you just play against people with terrible DI

you already demonstrated that you understand that you can do it unless they DI away, then asked the question anyway

have some confidence man
 
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